Bloated post count = Bloated post count + 1
Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
Okay, I guess I'm not seeing what we disagree on here. I prefer to use
"which" for nonrestrictive clauses and "that" for restrictive. Herb
evidently has the same preference and so is changing "which" to
"that" in restrictive clauses. You say that "which" is equally
correct. I'm not disputing that, merely saying that I personally
prefer "that" and think "which" sounds stilted. What I don't
understand about your initial reply is what you consider "backward"
about changing "which" to "that."
Oh, wait, I think I see what you mean. What you were saying was
"backward" was this statement: "The only time I'll use 'which' is
when there's ambiguity about whether the clause is restrictive or
not." In the context, I thought it was clear that what I meant was
something like: "The only time I'll use 'which' [instead of 'that' in
a restrictive clause] is when there's ambiguity about whether the
clause is restrictive or not."
In other words, I invariably use "which" for nonrestrictive clauses
and ordinarily use "that" for restrictive clauses but may use "which"
in a restrictive clause if there is some ambiguity about it or
(additionally) when there is another "that" in the sentence so close
that the compounding of "thats" is awkward (and of course "that
which" is an exception as well).
As for ambiguity, sometimes an editor is faced with a situation in
which an author has used "which" without a preceding comma. From
previous experience with the author's prose and punctuation, the
editor knows that the writer is not good with commas, so the absence
of a comma doesn't necessary mean that the clause is restrictive, nor
does the use of "which" guarantee that it's nonrestrictive. Often
it's difficult to determine the writer's intent.
On Sep 7, 9:26 am, "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:
Yes, the commas should be an indicator, but often there are commas
anyway because of some intervening parenthetical phrase/clause. The
ambiguity rarely surfaces in my own writing, but when I'm editing
someone else's writing and am not confident of the writer's intent...
And I don't see how that's backward, since I would not ever use
"that" in a
nonrestrictive clause.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in
...
I think that's backwards ... anyway non-restrictive relatives have
commas around them, restrictive relatives don't.
On Sep 7, 8:09 am, "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:
I confess I'm with Herb on this one, though. UK English tends to
favor "which" even for restrictive clauses, but it always sounds
very stilted to
me. The only time I'll use "which" is when there's ambiguity about
whether
the clause is restrictive or not.
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in
...
If I found you changing my "which"es to "that"s, I wouldn't hire
you a second time!
The "rule" that restrictive relatives must have "that" is a
completely fabricated invention.
On Sep 6, 9:00 pm, "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:
My clients trust my advice, but they don't always follow it--and
drafts
often go through a dozen or more contributors. So, when I receive
drafts,
I
change "spacespace" into "space", change incorrect whiches to
thats,
and fix other stuff they might be inclined to ignore or change
back. And
THEN I turn tracking on. ;-)
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Author of the Word 2007 Bible
Blog:http://word2007bible.herbtyson.com
Web:http://www.herbtyson.com
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in
. ..
Thank goodness my clients trust my advice (but then I'm an editor
and
not
a developer).
--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
"Cheryl Flanders" wrote in message
...
Yes. Several of my clients want two spaces after periods and the
paying client has the last word.
This says it all! I have a client who insists on two spaces
between sentences too. Even if I don't agree I'm paid to do what
they want. grin
~Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
On Sep 3, 8:34 pm, "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:
Is there a reason for typing two spaces after a sentence?---
--
--
Greg Maxey
See my web site
http://gregmaxey.mvps.org
for an eclectic collection of Word Tips.
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them
better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is
marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly...who knows
the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a
worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high
achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and
timid souls who have never known neither victory nor defeat." - TR