"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised at you, Suzanne, and very disappointed! Your
advice
is usually dead on and accurate: That's entirely wrong about
having to use them on the same machine they were burned on,
and
certainly not the norm with any reasonable packet writing
application. What you say is true ONLY IF the user should
decide
to not close the CD or to make it readable in other computers,
so
they may continue to add data to them without losing
previously
written data.
But that's the whole point of these packet systems - so that
they can be used like a big floppy. If the aim was to produce a
closed and finished disc Windows could manage that all by
itself.
I can appreciate your supporting a fellow mvp, but what you
say
just isn't true. I create CDs and DVDs with Roxio and/or
Movie
Factory and those disks are readable in ANY computer to date
to
which I;ve delivered them, which is approximately 200 or a
little
less, that they've been played on, and are also, with Movie
Factory, playable in any reasonably recent desktop CD/DVD
player,
that supports the CD/DVD formats. In fact, some will even
play
JPGs and a couple other formats.
DVD is a different issue and not relevant to this forum -
No problem; Dunno why DVD wouldn't be relevant on the forum, any
differently than CD, but ... the origin was CD, so I'll agree to
that.
....
All the software has to do is meet the specs of the
relevantly
colored book; it's not really rocket science.
If only 
This is one field of activity where only token
adherence is made to standards.
lol, can't argue too hard on that one. However, parts of them
are adhered to and those have to do with Closing CDs and making
them readable in other drives. The attitude in design groups
often seems to be to adhere where it matters to the customer, but
internally, that's "their" business since they know a "better
way".
....
While some people claim to be
able to interchange discs between Roxio and InCD (and still
have them behave as large floppies - which I repeat is the only
point of such software) there are far more who lose data as a
result.
Aha, a syntactical disconnect! I never said they could act as a
"big floppy", which implies read/write functionality. I did,
however, which you seem to have ignored, say that when you CLOSE
a CD, or CLOSE A CD AND WRITE PROTECT IT SO IT CAN'T BE WRITTEN
TO AGAIN, that it CAN be taken to most other CD drives/players
and used very successfully! Which I've also done now, many, many
times!
I never indicated that the data on them could be ADDED TO. If
one doesn't write-protect the CD, then you can indeed re-open it,
and write more to it, BUT, all previous data will be lost, and of
course you will have also lost the space it occupied.
OTOH, your vagueries have allowed a discussion to go on that
is actually now obviously irrelevant.
I respectfully submit that you, and at least one other MVP
here,
must have some very outdated experience with them. I've been
doing this for going on two years and a few months now, with
zero
problems from the burning process.
And I stand by that statement; I have been delivering CLOSED CDs
to others for a long period of time without problems, indicating
that Packet Writing is indeed reliable, IFF it is used properly,
as in CLOSING the CD and write protecting it, to the tables, toc
etc. are written to it for standard CD players.
There is nothing whatsoever respectful in your submission.
That sentence is why you see no mention of respect this time. I
do not respect your advice concerning CD technology any longer as
of that sentence. Either your knowledge of CD technology is
lacking, or you purposely keep things vague.
I am now of the opinion that you practice CMA by remaining
vague so that no matter what happens, you think you have an out.
You do not have an out when you're wrong, which you were, and
purposely ignore facts so that all you have to type is your own
opinion and hope no one will notice, and you've been showing this
since the point where you originally went OT.
At least we have
the courtesy to say who we are, so that we can be researched.
The fortunate experiences of one anonymous user is no
reflection on the wider experiences of the computer community
as a whole.
Irrelevant; don't know what you're getting at. Don't explain
though, you and I are through "discussing" this one.
Data packet formats as used in these 'big floppy' software
systems are unstable, and when corrupted almost impossible to
recover from.
CDs are not in "big floppy" software systems.
You trade
reliability for convenience.
No, you do not. I routinely also take CDs made on my desktop to
my laptop, and vice-versa with zero problems. XP Pro/Home
respectively. In particular on a single machine, to date,
approximately 400 CDs from a glance at the spindles sitting
around and in archive, I haven't yet had a failure except for
three "way back when" before I discovered the adhesive problems
CDs could experinience. I was, however, able to recover all but
about twenty of the audio files with diagnostic recovery software
from those three. I recall it vividly because I was pretty
****ed twice; when it happened, and later when I discovered it
was the labels. I stopped labelling and haven't had a failure
since; if the machine can read it, it's reliable.
Oops! I forgot to count the about 75 probably, "current" CDs
sitting on the shelf above me here. I won't count the DVDs since
those aren't germaine, according to you.
Multisession ISO discs whether created on
re-writables (or better still write once discs) are much more
stable and
I can agree with that. ISO is a good way to go - but ... well,
I'm sure you know where you went astray there.
offer wider compatibility between hardware platforms.
Incorrect; there is no difference; either way, reliability
depends on the media and the ability of the laser to do the job
it was designed to do. A properly handled and cared for CD will
last as long whether it's +/-R or +/-RW. Once the punch has
occurred, it's there until something external damages it or the
media oxidizes.
Data can also usually
be recovered should the disc become corrupted. The small amount
of extra effort required to produce such a disc is a good
trade.
I use R/Ws too, but not for that reason. They're simply
temporary intermediate backups until the scheduled backup comes
along and grabs the whole thing. A CD just does not "become
corrupted" for no reason or by sitting on a shelf for a few
years. I know there is some mathematical data showing end of
life/oxidation, migration, etc etc. but none of that occurs in
any timeframe relevant to this discussion because it's measured
in decades, not years.
It CAN be a problem if one isn't willing to RTFM, or at
least
the onscreen instructions and menu notices and dialogs. Oh,
and
I did have a batch of 50 once that were a problem; but that
was
media problem, not software.
The manual isn't going to make the packet format any more
stable.
Your vagueries at work again: Is it "corruption" or is it
unreliable packet writing? They are not the same. As for
"stable", well, you either misspoke or have some archane meaning
in mind. Packet Writing is stable when using reputable software,
and the CDs do not "corrupt" once they are burned. Whatever has
caused your sour experiences, your conclusions are wrong.
I can only repeat: RTFM, and try to understand it. Then do a
little realistic research; you seem to have the time for it.
I have mentioned media compatibility. I'll bet that there was
nothing wrong with those discs that would stop them from
working as intended with a different writer and/or player
combination..
Bet all you want; you'd lose. Interestingly enough, when I
started having problems with the CDs being recognized was about
the same time I was discovering the technology and manufacturer
differences in CDs, and NERO was one of the first diags I used to
check the CDs after my own Roxio diags. After three sets of very
similar results, I concluded my drive was fine and the CDs were
to blame. I talked to where i bought them, and received a
replacement spindle of CDs, and those were 100% fine: Same mfg
same brand, same type.
Oh, and Graham apparently isn't very "up" on CD background
either, because he's wrong and gave the same misinformation
you
just parroted.
Researching your postings in other forums I came across your
description of yourself as this gem:
"a more-than-a-newbie, knows-enough-to-be-dangerous"
lol, you DO have too much time on your hands! That's still how I
consider myself, in fact. Even though it's obvious you don't
have the handle on CD technology that I've been able to glean,
I'm not pompous enough to claim I know everything. There's lots
I don't know or understand yet about a lot of things, and when a
situation occurs where I might be wrong, I like to acknowledge
that.
The problem comes from the stagnation that you expect: Things
CHANGE over time, espeically with people. Well, maybe you don't,
but I've grown in knowledge and experience at least. I try hard
to be honest about my abilties but I don't need to look back at
posts to know that you don't because I recall several of them
where you were off track.
A little knowledge as you acknowledge is a dangerous thing.
You should think about that a "little" more. You are probably
many, many magnitudes more "dangerous" than I, but you won't
admit it; rather than check your information, you barge in with
both nostrils blaring, and state your "facts" as you see them.
You should keep
it to yourself until you know more about the topic and more
about the depth of knowledge of the people you are criticising.
As I intimated, in this sense, I know exactly to whom I am
sending my criticisms. You. If you can't take criticism, you
shouldn't be on the boards. If you can't show respect, you
should not respond to those you no longer respect.
BTW, that said, I will no longer be responding to anything you
say in this thread. You can rant, rave, troll all you want, but
I have nothing futher to say to you nor do I consider your
knowledge to be anything but mediocre w/r to CDs and their uses.
A wart on the ass of progress comes to mind, but I'll not say
that g about you, so you can't claim I said that about you g.
I would recommend you respond if you feel you must, but lest
you be logged as a troll, you should also desist, but it's
certainly your perogative.
Bye,
Pop
--
Graham Mayor - Word MVP
My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org