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#1
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column width versus cell width
What is the difference between cell width and column width in the table
properties. I find they do the same thing. If I adjust the cell width it adjusts the entire column. Sometimes it wont do anything at all. -- 2dogs in Oregon USA |
#2
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If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire column. To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. "2dogs" wrote in message ... What is the difference between cell width and column width in the table properties. I find they do the same thing. If I adjust the cell width it adjusts the entire column. Sometimes it wont do anything at all. -- 2dogs in Oregon USA |
#3
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I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact
steps and results. TEST ONE 1. Start Word 2. Open new blank document 3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1". 4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar. 5. Insert a 3 x 3 table 6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle selection arrow). 7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked. 8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK. 9. Result, nothing happens. TEST TWO 1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the width setting to 3." 2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3". TEST THREE 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7 2. Change width setting to 1". 3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width" 4. Click OK 5. Result, entire column is resized to 1". TEST FOUR 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged) 2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width" 3. Click OK 4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width" was still set at 2.2". Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you. -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire column. To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP |
#4
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There is a difference between (actual) width and preferred width. Preferred width was introduced in Word 2000 and it allows you to express preferences which may or may not be the deciding factor in determining actual table properties. When you specify a preferred width for a single cell in a column of a different width, Word has to decide how to interpret the conflicting values it has. In Word 97, the top row (and only the top row) would have been resized to accommodate the explicit request for a certain width; there wasn't really any other choice it could make. In Word 2000 (and later) Word has a choice and it chooses as you have seen. You may not like its choice but it has a set of guiding principles; if you want something different you must provide a different set of (possibly still conflicting) values and you may have to use a bit of trial and error because I am not aware of any documentation on how Word makes its decisions. You can, if you wish, still use the old (Word 97) dialog and get the old behaviour. There are three commands: TableFormatCell, TableCellWidth, and TableRowHeight and they are available via the Word Commands list under Tools Macro Macros (Alt+F8). Alternatively you can add them to your toolbars via Tools Customize Commands (tab), Category "All Commands" - scroll down the list on the right to find them. Enjoy, Tony "2dogs" wrote: I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact steps and results. TEST ONE 1. Start Word 2. Open new blank document 3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1". 4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar. 5. Insert a 3 x 3 table 6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle selection arrow). 7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked. 8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK. 9. Result, nothing happens. TEST TWO 1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the width setting to 3." 2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3". TEST THREE 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7 2. Change width setting to 1". 3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width" 4. Click OK 5. Result, entire column is resized to 1". TEST FOUR 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged) 2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width" 3. Click OK 4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width" was still set at 2.2". Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you. -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire column. To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP |
#5
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upper row, bottom row, center row, it makes no difference. This behavior is
totally unpredictable. For example, why will changing the value to a larger value have an affect but changing to a lower value doesn't. The whole operation seems ambiguous to me. (and everybody else I have talked to) -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Tony Jollans" wrote: There is a difference between (actual) width and preferred width. Preferred width was introduced in Word 2000 and it allows you to express preferences which may or may not be the deciding factor in determining actual table properties. When you specify a preferred width for a single cell in a column of a different width, Word has to decide how to interpret the conflicting values it has. In Word 97, the top row (and only the top row) would have been resized to accommodate the explicit request for a certain width; there wasn't really any other choice it could make. In Word 2000 (and later) Word has a choice and it chooses as you have seen. You may not like its choice but it has a set of guiding principles; if you want something different you must provide a different set of (possibly still conflicting) values and you may have to use a bit of trial and error because I am not aware of any documentation on how Word makes its decisions. You can, if you wish, still use the old (Word 97) dialog and get the old behaviour. There are three commands: TableFormatCell, TableCellWidth, and TableRowHeight and they are available via the Word Commands list under Tools Macro Macros (Alt+F8). Alternatively you can add them to your toolbars via Tools Customize Commands (tab), Category "All Commands" - scroll down the list on the right to find them. Enjoy, Tony "2dogs" wrote: I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact steps and results. TEST ONE 1. Start Word 2. Open new blank document 3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1". 4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar. 5. Insert a 3 x 3 table 6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle selection arrow). 7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked. 8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK. 9. Result, nothing happens. TEST TWO 1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the width setting to 3." 2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3". TEST THREE 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7 2. Change width setting to 1". 3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width" 4. Click OK 5. Result, entire column is resized to 1". TEST FOUR 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged) 2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width" 3. Click OK 4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width" was still set at 2.2". Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you. -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire column. To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP |
#6
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In general, the largest of the all the individual cell preferred widths and
the column preferred width will take precedence (although other settings may come into play). As I said, you may not like it, but that doesn't make it unpredictable. If you don't like the way the feature works you don't have to use it; I do recognise that the old dialog is not exactly at your fingertips but it is there. It seems to me like all bases are covered. Enjoy, Tony "2dogs" wrote: upper row, bottom row, center row, it makes no difference. This behavior is totally unpredictable. For example, why will changing the value to a larger value have an affect but changing to a lower value doesn't. The whole operation seems ambiguous to me. (and everybody else I have talked to) -- 2dogs in Oregon USA |
#7
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Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get. Note
that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that what you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO). When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to do it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border to the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact settings, then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the ruler. In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having a separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating). -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. "2dogs" wrote in message ... I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact steps and results. TEST ONE 1. Start Word 2. Open new blank document 3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1". 4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar. 5. Insert a 3 x 3 table 6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle selection arrow). 7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked. 8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK. 9. Result, nothing happens. TEST TWO 1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the width setting to 3." 2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3". TEST THREE 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7 2. Change width setting to 1". 3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width" 4. Click OK 5. Result, entire column is resized to 1". TEST FOUR 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged) 2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width" 3. Click OK 4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width" was still set at 2.2". Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you. -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire column. To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP |
#8
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I tried to be very specific about the little test so there would be clear
understanding that is hard to convey in words. I think I have come to the same conclusion. I have been trying this command every way I could think of for the last 2 days with no consistant or repeatable resuslt. There are many ways to get cells of different sizes (splitting and adjusting, drawing, dragging, etc.) but this method seems to be bunk. It's very embarassing when a client calls and asks how to set the cell width and when you tell him to use this method he says your an idiot. Know, what I mean? -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get. Note that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that what you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO). When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to do it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border to the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact settings, then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the ruler. In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having a separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating). -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. "2dogs" wrote in message ... I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact steps and results. TEST ONE 1. Start Word 2. Open new blank document 3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1". 4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar. 5. Insert a 3 x 3 table 6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle selection arrow). 7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked. 8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK. 9. Result, nothing happens. TEST TWO 1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the width setting to 3." 2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3". TEST THREE 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7 2. Change width setting to 1". 3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width" 4. Click OK 5. Result, entire column is resized to 1". TEST FOUR 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged) 2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width" 3. Click OK 4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width" was still set at 2.2". Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you. -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire column. To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP |
#9
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Yep. Exactly. Tell the client to select the cell and drag its borders.
But, at least you now know where the wall and your head meet. ;-) -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. "2dogs" wrote in message ... I tried to be very specific about the little test so there would be clear understanding that is hard to convey in words. I think I have come to the same conclusion. I have been trying this command every way I could think of for the last 2 days with no consistant or repeatable resuslt. There are many ways to get cells of different sizes (splitting and adjusting, drawing, dragging, etc.) but this method seems to be bunk. It's very embarassing when a client calls and asks how to set the cell width and when you tell him to use this method he says your an idiot. Know, what I mean? -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get. Note that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that what you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO). When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to do it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border to the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact settings, then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the ruler. In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having a separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating). -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. "2dogs" wrote in message ... I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact steps and results. TEST ONE 1. Start Word 2. Open new blank document 3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1". 4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar. 5. Insert a 3 x 3 table 6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle selection arrow). 7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked. 8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK. 9. Result, nothing happens. TEST TWO 1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the width setting to 3." 2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3". TEST THREE 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7 2. Change width setting to 1". 3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width" 4. Click OK 5. Result, entire column is resized to 1". TEST FOUR 1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged) 2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width" 3. Click OK 4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width" was still set at 2.2". Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you. -- 2dogs in Oregon USA "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire column. To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP |
#10
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I was initially inclined to agree that setting cell widths ought to
behave much like dragging cell borders, but I have changed my mind. They are two different operations. Dragging a cell border changes the width of two cells, not one. Setting a preferred width in table properties only changes the setting for one cell. What should Word do if you change the width of one cell? If it automatically changed the setting for the adjacent cell (which it presumably does when dragging a border), you would probably call it a bug for setting the property of a cell that you had not intended to touch. (Officially Word does not even know which border you want to move when you set a new width; it assumes the right-hand border.) Word apparently takes the interpretation that most people want cells in nice neat columns, so if you change the width of one cell it either leaves the column width alone or changes the whole column. The result may not be perfect clarity, but it probably produces reasonable results much of the time. The obvious objection is that if one wanted to keep columns aligned one would be setting column widths not cell widths, and the current behavior does not allow setting unaligned edges from the properties dialog. But still, what exactly would be "better" behavior? The obvious alternative would destroy the alignment of all other columns, which you arguably did not desire. By the way, there is an interesting follow-on to the test case of making a single cell preferred width narrower than the column, where nothing happened. If you do the same to each cell in the column, when you finish changing the setting for the last cell the column will indeed get narrower. Word is not actually ignoring the width settings, it is just over-riding them with the "common sense" idea that cell edges should be aligned. Another interesting follow-on is to use dragging to set cell edges out of alignment, then try setting cell widths in Table Properties. In many cases Word will move the edge in the direction you specify, but only until the edges line up again! Bob S On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 22:19:05 -0400, Herb Tyson [MVP] wrote: Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get. Note that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that what you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO). When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to do it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border to the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact settings, then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the ruler. In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having a separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating). |
#11
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It depends on how you drag it. If you press Shift or Ctrl, you get different
behavior (and different still depending whether you're dragging in the table or on the ruler); see http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/TableBasics.htm -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "Bob S" wrote in message ... I was initially inclined to agree that setting cell widths ought to behave much like dragging cell borders, but I have changed my mind. They are two different operations. Dragging a cell border changes the width of two cells, not one. Setting a preferred width in table properties only changes the setting for one cell. What should Word do if you change the width of one cell? If it automatically changed the setting for the adjacent cell (which it presumably does when dragging a border), you would probably call it a bug for setting the property of a cell that you had not intended to touch. (Officially Word does not even know which border you want to move when you set a new width; it assumes the right-hand border.) Word apparently takes the interpretation that most people want cells in nice neat columns, so if you change the width of one cell it either leaves the column width alone or changes the whole column. The result may not be perfect clarity, but it probably produces reasonable results much of the time. The obvious objection is that if one wanted to keep columns aligned one would be setting column widths not cell widths, and the current behavior does not allow setting unaligned edges from the properties dialog. But still, what exactly would be "better" behavior? The obvious alternative would destroy the alignment of all other columns, which you arguably did not desire. By the way, there is an interesting follow-on to the test case of making a single cell preferred width narrower than the column, where nothing happened. If you do the same to each cell in the column, when you finish changing the setting for the last cell the column will indeed get narrower. Word is not actually ignoring the width settings, it is just over-riding them with the "common sense" idea that cell edges should be aligned. Another interesting follow-on is to use dragging to set cell edges out of alignment, then try setting cell widths in Table Properties. In many cases Word will move the edge in the direction you specify, but only until the edges line up again! Bob S On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 22:19:05 -0400, Herb Tyson [MVP] wrote: Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get. Note that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that what you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO). When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to do it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border to the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact settings, then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the ruler. In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having a separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating). |
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