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#1
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Indian language fonts to be included as default fonts in windo
On Sep 16, 8:03*am, Ashok Kothare
wrote: Dear Grammatim, you are very sure that everything has been done to make windows suitable to write in Indian languages. "Everything"? I have no idea what "everything" might be. You can type in the 11 standard Indian scripts without adding anything at all to Windows out-of-the-box. Conjuncts are formed, and matras are placed, automatically as you type the sounds of the letters in the order they are spoken -- you don't even need to type i before the consonant, or o both before and after (Bengali). Once you have selected the (or a) keyboard for your language, you begin to get characters in that script, in whatever the system's default might be. For some it's Arial Unicode, for some it's Sylfaen, for some (Urdu, Sindhi), it's Times New Roman. I am afraid you are not correct. Another point you have put is that unicode has been finalized for Indian languages is also not correct. If you see unicodes used by fonts such as 'mangal' *you will see that they are not placed on the unicodes recommended for Indian languages but they are put on other nondescript unicode places. It is hardly Unicode's fault that some font designers have failed to adhere to Unicode standards. I have not heard of "mangal"; for what script is it a font? If windows do that how that can be justified? I want "Windows" do not "do that." Font designers do that. Maybe "mangal" is 20 years old and was made before computers could handle more than 128 or 256 characters. Microsoft to be a perfect instrument to get proper unicodes to be used for these languages. I will add one more page to my blog soon to show you the difference in what unicodes are used by microsoft Indian fonts and what are the actuall unicodes offered by the unicode. I want to know why microsoft is doing this? Is it justified to put fonts of a langauge on wrong unicodes? My Certainly not. intentions are that let us do something that is, in given times, helpful to users in India. Please do not misunderstand me. I want to know what Bob has to say. Please visit my blog after 8 days to avoid any misunderstanding. I Post the link here next week. have internet server problem here and that makes it difficult to do posting in time sorry for that. Remember, we Indians wish to use english version of windows and want to write our messages in Indian languages since that is most convenient at this time. We often toggle between both languages and for that english version is most suitable. with regards. I of course use English version of Windows, and I have no trouble typing in any of the Indian languages. I can toggle between English and any of the languages either by choosing them from the Language Bar, or by pressing LeftAlt+Shift, or by assigning a specific shortcut to each keyboard (though because I use many, many different scripts in my work, I have different selections of keyboards installed at different times, so I don't bother with specific shortcuts except for getting back to English.) "grammatim" wrote: Well, to get the link, I had to go to Bob Buckland's message. The "essay" contains a great deal of blather. I gather "orkut" is an Indian ISP? You seem to have two points. (1) Transliteration is not necessary. (2) Windows cannot properly handle Indian scripts. (1) is a matter of opinion and is correct in some circumstances, incorrect in others. (2), as I and others told you more than half a year ago, is simply incorrect. Every version of Windows since I-don't-know-when has provided full support for typing in the 11 standard scripts of India (roman, Nagari, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Bengali, Oriya, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Urdu), with a dedicated keyboard for each. All of them have been included in Unicode since Version 1.0 nearly 20 years ago. On Sep 14, 5:09 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: I am very sorry that the page on my blog was written next day due to internet problem at my end. Now you can read my article on the page Transliteration and please write back for your comments here and also if possible on the comment box of the blog. That page shall remain on the blog for some time now, for all interested observers. Friend Grammtin, please note. "Bob * Buckland ?:-)" wrote: Hi Ashok, Can you provide the link to the specific document you're referring to in your post? *The Transliteration article on your blog at *http://kothareashok.blog.co.in/transliteration/ basically says 'coming soon'. ============== * "Ashok Kothare" Ashok wrote in message ... Friends, I am resuming the dialogue after about seven months. Somebody told me that transliteration is the answer to the problem of Indian language inclusion as default font. I have studied the suggestion and come with reply. that reply is in details and so I have put it on my blog. Please visit my blog to read it. It is a research paper too lengthy for this box. URL of my blog http://kothareashok.blog.co.in and you may reply to it on this site as well as on the comment box. *- |
#2
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Indian language fonts to be included as default fonts in windo
As I had said in my last mail I have loaded a page on my blog. the page is
"Grammatim". Please log on the blog and read the page. Also ask other interested in the topic to read it. My blog, http://kothareashok.blog.co.in Ashok Kothare "grammatim" wrote: On Sep 16, 8:03 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Dear Grammatim, you are very sure that everything has been done to make windows suitable to write in Indian languages. "Everything"? I have no idea what "everything" might be. You can type in the 11 standard Indian scripts without adding anything at all to Windows out-of-the-box. Conjuncts are formed, and matras are placed, automatically as you type the sounds of the letters in the order they are spoken -- you don't even need to type i before the consonant, or o both before and after (Bengali). Once you have selected the (or a) keyboard for your language, you begin to get characters in that script, in whatever the system's default might be. For some it's Arial Unicode, for some it's Sylfaen, for some (Urdu, Sindhi), it's Times New Roman. I am afraid you are not correct. Another point you have put is that unicode has been finalized for Indian languages is also not correct. If you see unicodes used by fonts such as 'mangal' you will see that they are not placed on the unicodes recommended for Indian languages but they are put on other nondescript unicode places. It is hardly Unicode's fault that some font designers have failed to adhere to Unicode standards. I have not heard of "mangal"; for what script is it a font? If windows do that how that can be justified? I want "Windows" do not "do that." Font designers do that. Maybe "mangal" is 20 years old and was made before computers could handle more than 128 or 256 characters. Microsoft to be a perfect instrument to get proper unicodes to be used for these languages. I will add one more page to my blog soon to show you the difference in what unicodes are used by microsoft Indian fonts and what are the actuall unicodes offered by the unicode. I want to know why microsoft is doing this? Is it justified to put fonts of a langauge on wrong unicodes? My Certainly not. intentions are that let us do something that is, in given times, helpful to users in India. Please do not misunderstand me. I want to know what Bob has to say. Please visit my blog after 8 days to avoid any misunderstanding. I Post the link here next week. have internet server problem here and that makes it difficult to do posting in time sorry for that. Remember, we Indians wish to use english version of windows and want to write our messages in Indian languages since that is most convenient at this time. We often toggle between both languages and for that english version is most suitable. with regards. I of course use English version of Windows, and I have no trouble typing in any of the Indian languages. I can toggle between English and any of the languages either by choosing them from the Language Bar, or by pressing LeftAlt+Shift, or by assigning a specific shortcut to each keyboard (though because I use many, many different scripts in my work, I have different selections of keyboards installed at different times, so I don't bother with specific shortcuts except for getting back to English.) "grammatim" wrote: Well, to get the link, I had to go to Bob Buckland's message. The "essay" contains a great deal of blather. I gather "orkut" is an Indian ISP? You seem to have two points. (1) Transliteration is not necessary. (2) Windows cannot properly handle Indian scripts. (1) is a matter of opinion and is correct in some circumstances, incorrect in others. (2), as I and others told you more than half a year ago, is simply incorrect. Every version of Windows since I-don't-know-when has provided full support for typing in the 11 standard scripts of India (roman, Nagari, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Bengali, Oriya, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Urdu), with a dedicated keyboard for each. All of them have been included in Unicode since Version 1.0 nearly 20 years ago. On Sep 14, 5:09 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: I am very sorry that the page on my blog was written next day due to internet problem at my end. Now you can read my article on the page Transliteration and please write back for your comments here and also if possible on the comment box of the blog. That page shall remain on the blog for some time now, for all interested observers. Friend Grammtin, please note. "Bob Buckland ?:-)" wrote: Hi Ashok, Can you provide the link to the specific document you're referring to in your post? The Transliteration article on your blog at http://kothareashok.blog.co.in/transliteration/ basically says 'coming soon'. ============== "Ashok Kothare" Ashok wrote in message ... Friends, I am resuming the dialogue after about seven months. Somebody told me that transliteration is the answer to the problem of Indian language inclusion as default font. I have studied the suggestion and come with reply. that reply is in details and so I have put it on my blog. Please visit my blog to read it. It is a research paper too lengthy for this box. URL of my blog http://kothareashok.blog.co.in and you may reply to it on this site as well as on the comment box. - |
#3
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Indian language fonts to be included as default fonts in windo
It has not been "eight days" since your last posting.
I have read your blog page called "Grammatim" and I have no idea what you are talking about. Mangal font is on my computer -- installed with Vista last month; until I get my old hard drive back, I cannot know whether some recent earlier version of Mangal did not comply with Unicode -- I opened it with BabelMap and found that it contains every Unicode-specified character in its proper place. (The glyph variants involved in constructing conjuncts and adding matras are handled behind the scenes, by the Devanagari IME.) It is possible that you have a very, very, very old version of Mangal, if you do not have the 110 Mangal characters in their proper places. On Sep 18, 7:45*am, Ashok Kothare wrote: As I had said in my last mail I have loaded a page on my blog. the page is "Grammatim". Please log on the blog and read the page. Also ask other interested in the topic to read it. My blog,http://kothareashok.blog.co.in Ashok Kothare "grammatim" wrote: On Sep 16, 8:03 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Dear Grammatim, you are very sure that everything has been done to make windows suitable to write in Indian languages. "Everything"? I have no idea what "everything" might be. You can type in the 11 standard Indian scripts without adding anything at all to Windows out-of-the-box. Conjuncts are formed, and matras are placed, automatically as you type the sounds of the letters in the order they are spoken -- you don't even need to type i before the consonant, or o both before and after (Bengali). Once you have selected the (or a) keyboard for your language, you begin to get characters in that script, in whatever the system's default might be. For some it's Arial Unicode, for some it's Sylfaen, for some (Urdu, Sindhi), it's Times New Roman. I am afraid you are not correct. Another point you have put is that unicode has been finalized for Indian languages is also not correct. If you see unicodes used by fonts such as 'mangal' *you will see that they are not placed on the unicodes recommended for Indian languages but they are put on other nondescript unicode places. It is hardly Unicode's fault that some font designers have failed to adhere to Unicode standards. I have not heard of "mangal"; for what script is it a font? If windows do that how that can be justified? I want "Windows" do not "do that." Font designers do that. Maybe "mangal" is 20 years old and was made before computers could handle more than 128 or 256 characters. Microsoft to be a perfect instrument to get proper unicodes to be used for these languages. I will add one more page to my blog soon to show you the difference in what unicodes are used by microsoft Indian fonts and what are the actuall unicodes offered by the unicode. I want to know why microsoft is doing this? Is it justified to put fonts of a langauge on wrong unicodes? My Certainly not. intentions are that let us do something that is, in given times, helpful to users in India. Please do not misunderstand me. I want to know what Bob has to say. Please visit my blog after 8 days to avoid any misunderstanding. I Post the link here next week. have internet server problem here and that makes it difficult to do posting in time sorry for that. Remember, we Indians wish to use english version of windows and want to write our messages in Indian languages since that is most convenient at this time. We often toggle between both languages and for that english version is most suitable. with regards. I of course use English version of Windows, and I have no trouble typing in any of the Indian languages. I can toggle between English and any of the languages either by choosing them from the Language Bar, or by pressing LeftAlt+Shift, or by assigning a specific shortcut to each keyboard (though because I use many, many different scripts in my work, I have different selections of keyboards installed at different times, so I don't bother with specific shortcuts except for getting back to English.) "grammatim" wrote: Well, to get the link, I had to go to Bob Buckland's message. The "essay" contains a great deal of blather. I gather "orkut" is an Indian ISP? You seem to have two points. (1) Transliteration is not necessary. (2) Windows cannot properly handle Indian scripts. (1) is a matter of opinion and is correct in some circumstances, incorrect in others. (2), as I and others told you more than half a year ago, is simply incorrect. Every version of Windows since I-don't-know-when has provided full support for typing in the 11 standard scripts of India (roman, Nagari, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Bengali, Oriya, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Urdu), with a dedicated keyboard for each. All of them have been included in Unicode since Version 1.0 nearly 20 years ago. On Sep 14, 5:09 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: I am very sorry that the page on my blog was written next day due to internet problem at my end. Now you can read my article on the page Transliteration and please write back for your comments here and also if possible on the comment box of the blog. That page shall remain on the blog for some time now, for all interested observers. Friend Grammtin, please note. "Bob * Buckland ?:-)" wrote: Hi Ashok, Can you provide the link to the specific document you're referring to in your post? *The Transliteration article on your blog at *http://kothareashok.blog.co.in/transliteration/ basically says 'coming soon'. ============== * "Ashok Kothare" Ashok wrote in message ... Friends, I am resuming the dialogue after about seven months. Somebody told me that transliteration is the answer to the problem of Indian language inclusion as default font. I have studied the suggestion and come with reply. that reply is in details and so I have put it on my blog. Please visit my blog to read it. It is a research paper too lengthy for this box. URL of my blog http://kothareashok.blog.co.in and you may reply to it on this site as well as on the comment box. * |
#4
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Indian language fonts to be included as default fonts in windo
Thanks for the reply. I want others in the discussion group to say what they
want to say. Your argument does not justify violation of the unicode by Microsoft. Whether latest or very old the violation has been done. That is the point. I wish some person from the Microsoft connected with this font work come up and reply. May be you can arrange for it. May be, dear Grammatim, you are not competent to answer my query. "grammatim" wrote: It has not been "eight days" since your last posting. I have read your blog page called "Grammatim" and I have no idea what you are talking about. Mangal font is on my computer -- installed with Vista last month; until I get my old hard drive back, I cannot know whether some recent earlier version of Mangal did not comply with Unicode -- I opened it with BabelMap and found that it contains every Unicode-specified character in its proper place. (The glyph variants involved in constructing conjuncts and adding matras are handled behind the scenes, by the Devanagari IME.) It is possible that you have a very, very, very old version of Mangal, if you do not have the 110 Mangal characters in their proper places. On Sep 18, 7:45 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: As I had said in my last mail I have loaded a page on my blog. the page is "Grammatim". Please log on the blog and read the page. Also ask other interested in the topic to read it. My blog,http://kothareashok.blog.co.in Ashok Kothare "grammatim" wrote: On Sep 16, 8:03 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Dear Grammatim, you are very sure that everything has been done to make windows suitable to write in Indian languages. "Everything"? I have no idea what "everything" might be. You can type in the 11 standard Indian scripts without adding anything at all to Windows out-of-the-box. Conjuncts are formed, and matras are placed, automatically as you type the sounds of the letters in the order they are spoken -- you don't even need to type i before the consonant, or o both before and after (Bengali). Once you have selected the (or a) keyboard for your language, you begin to get characters in that script, in whatever the system's default might be. For some it's Arial Unicode, for some it's Sylfaen, for some (Urdu, Sindhi), it's Times New Roman. I am afraid you are not correct. Another point you have put is that unicode has been finalized for Indian languages is also not correct. If you see unicodes used by fonts such as 'mangal' you will see that they are not placed on the unicodes recommended for Indian languages but they are put on other nondescript unicode places. It is hardly Unicode's fault that some font designers have failed to adhere to Unicode standards. I have not heard of "mangal"; for what script is it a font? If windows do that how that can be justified? I want "Windows" do not "do that." Font designers do that. Maybe "mangal" is 20 years old and was made before computers could handle more than 128 or 256 characters. Microsoft to be a perfect instrument to get proper unicodes to be used for these languages. I will add one more page to my blog soon to show you the difference in what unicodes are used by microsoft Indian fonts and what are the actuall unicodes offered by the unicode. I want to know why microsoft is doing this? Is it justified to put fonts of a langauge on wrong unicodes? My Certainly not. intentions are that let us do something that is, in given times, helpful to users in India. Please do not misunderstand me. I want to know what Bob has to say. Please visit my blog after 8 days to avoid any misunderstanding. I Post the link here next week. have internet server problem here and that makes it difficult to do posting in time sorry for that. Remember, we Indians wish to use english version of windows and want to write our messages in Indian languages since that is most convenient at this time. We often toggle between both languages and for that english version is most suitable. with regards. I of course use English version of Windows, and I have no trouble typing in any of the Indian languages. I can toggle between English and any of the languages either by choosing them from the Language Bar, or by pressing LeftAlt+Shift, or by assigning a specific shortcut to each keyboard (though because I use many, many different scripts in my work, I have different selections of keyboards installed at different times, so I don't bother with specific shortcuts except for getting back to English.) "grammatim" wrote: Well, to get the link, I had to go to Bob Buckland's message. The "essay" contains a great deal of blather. I gather "orkut" is an Indian ISP? You seem to have two points. (1) Transliteration is not necessary. (2) Windows cannot properly handle Indian scripts. (1) is a matter of opinion and is correct in some circumstances, incorrect in others. (2), as I and others told you more than half a year ago, is simply incorrect. Every version of Windows since I-don't-know-when has provided full support for typing in the 11 standard scripts of India (roman, Nagari, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Bengali, Oriya, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Urdu), with a dedicated keyboard for each. All of them have been included in Unicode since Version 1.0 nearly 20 years ago. On Sep 14, 5:09 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: I am very sorry that the page on my blog was written next day due to internet problem at my end. Now you can read my article on the page Transliteration and please write back for your comments here and also if possible on the comment box of the blog. That page shall remain on the blog for some time now, for all interested observers. Friend Grammtin, please note. "Bob Buckland ?:-)" wrote: Hi Ashok, Can you provide the link to the specific document you're referring to in your post? The Transliteration article on your blog at http://kothareashok.blog.co.in/transliteration/ basically says 'coming soon'. ============== "Ashok Kothare" Ashok wrote in message ... Friends, I am resuming the dialogue after about seven months. Somebody told me that transliteration is the answer to the problem of Indian language inclusion as default font. I have studied the suggestion and come with reply. that reply is in details and so I have put it on my blog. Please visit my blog to read it. It is a research paper too lengthy for this box. URL of my blog http://kothareashok.blog.co.in and you may reply to it on this site as well as on the comment box. |
#5
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Indian language fonts to be included as default fonts in windo
No one from Microsoft reads this newsgroup.
If the ancient font you insist on continuing to use was made before Unicode was established, you have no right to claim that it does not match Unicode. Just update your computer and download the free fonts. On Sep 23, 3:57*am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Thanks for the reply. I want others in the discussion group to say what they want to say. Your argument does not justify violation of the unicode by Microsoft. Whether latest or very old the violation has been done. That is the point. I wish some person from the Microsoft connected with this font work come up and reply. May be you can arrange for it. May be, dear Grammatim, you are not competent to answer my query. "grammatim" wrote: It has not been "eight days" since your last posting. I have read your blog page called "Grammatim" and I have no idea what you are talking about. Mangal font is on my computer -- installed with Vista last month; until I get my old hard drive back, I cannot know whether some recent earlier version of Mangal did not comply with Unicode -- I opened it with BabelMap and found that it contains every Unicode-specified character in its proper place. (The glyph variants involved in constructing conjuncts and adding matras are handled behind the scenes, by the Devanagari IME.) It is possible that you have a very, very, very old version of Mangal, if you do not have the 110 Mangal characters in their proper places. On Sep 18, 7:45 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: As I had said in my last mail I have loaded a page on my blog. the page is "Grammatim". Please log on the blog and read the page. Also ask other interested in the topic to read it. My blog,http://kothareashok.blog.co.in Ashok Kothare "grammatim" wrote: On Sep 16, 8:03 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Dear Grammatim, you are very sure that everything has been done to make windows suitable to write in Indian languages. "Everything"? I have no idea what "everything" might be. You can type in the 11 standard Indian scripts without adding anything at all to Windows out-of-the-box. Conjuncts are formed, and matras are placed, automatically as you type the sounds of the letters in the order they are spoken -- you don't even need to type i before the consonant, or o both before and after (Bengali). Once you have selected the (or a) keyboard for your language, you begin to get characters in that script, in whatever the system's default might be. For some it's Arial Unicode, for some it's Sylfaen, for some (Urdu, Sindhi), it's Times New Roman. I am afraid you are not correct. Another point you have put is that unicode has been finalized for Indian languages is also not correct. If you see unicodes used by fonts such as 'mangal' *you will see that they are not placed on the unicodes recommended for Indian languages but they are put on other nondescript unicode places. It is hardly Unicode's fault that some font designers have failed to adhere to Unicode standards. I have not heard of "mangal"; for what script is it a font? If windows do that how that can be justified? I want "Windows" do not "do that." Font designers do that. Maybe "mangal" is 20 years old and was made before computers could handle more than 128 or 256 characters. Microsoft to be a perfect instrument to get proper unicodes to be used for these languages. I will add one more page to my blog soon to show you the difference in what unicodes are used by microsoft Indian fonts and what are the actuall unicodes offered by the unicode. I want to know why microsoft is doing this? Is it justified to put fonts of a langauge on wrong unicodes? My Certainly not. intentions are that let us do something that is, in given times, helpful to users in India. Please do not misunderstand me. I want to know what Bob has to say. Please visit my blog after 8 days to avoid any misunderstanding. I Post the link here next week. have internet server problem here and that makes it difficult to do posting in time sorry for that. Remember, we Indians wish to use english version of windows and want to write our messages in Indian languages since that is most convenient at this time. We often toggle between both languages and for that english version is most suitable. with regards. I of course use English version of Windows, and I have no trouble typing in any of the Indian languages. I can toggle between English and any of the languages either by choosing them from the Language Bar, or by pressing LeftAlt+Shift, or by assigning a specific shortcut to each keyboard (though because I use many, many different scripts in my work, I have different selections of keyboards installed at different times, so I don't bother with specific shortcuts except for getting back to English.) "grammatim" wrote: Well, to get the link, I had to go to Bob Buckland's message. The "essay" contains a great deal of blather. I gather "orkut" is an Indian ISP? You seem to have two points. (1) Transliteration is not necessary. (2) Windows cannot properly handle Indian scripts. (1) is a matter of opinion and is correct in some circumstances, incorrect in others. (2), as I and others told you more than half a year ago, is simply incorrect. Every version of Windows since I-don't-know-when has provided full support for typing in the 11 standard scripts of India (roman, Nagari, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Bengali, Oriya, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Urdu), with a dedicated keyboard for each. All of them have been included in Unicode since Version 1.0 nearly 20 years ago. On Sep 14, 5:09 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: I am very sorry that the page on my blog was written next day due to internet problem at my end. Now you can read my article on the page Transliteration and please write back for your comments here and also if possible on the comment box of the blog. That page shall remain on the blog for some time now, for all interested observers. Friend Grammtin, please note. "Bob * Buckland ?:-)" wrote: Hi Ashok, Can you provide the link to the specific document you're referring to in your post? *The Transliteration article on your blog at *http://kothareashok.blog.co.in/transliteration/ basically says 'coming soon'. ============== * "Ashok Kothare" Ashok wrote in message ... Friends, I am resuming the dialogue after about seven months. Somebody told me that transliteration is the answer to the problem of Indian language inclusion as default font. I have studied the suggestion and come with reply. that reply is in details and so I have put it on my blog. Please visit my blog to read it. It is a research paper too lengthy for this box. URL of my blog http://kothareashok.blog.co.in and you may reply to it on this site as well as on the comment box. *- |
#6
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Indian language fonts to be included as default fonts in windo
How do you know that no one from Microsoft reads this newsgroup? If so why
keep it? I have found that Google research reads my comments that means Microsoft definetly knows what is going on in this group. Any way, your advice is perfect but that does not solve the problem. I have put 'My stand' on the page "Grammatim" on my blog. May be it will clear the point. The font I am talking about is copyright 2001. Is it ancient? Unicode were all well set by that time. "grammatim" wrote: No one from Microsoft reads this newsgroup. If the ancient font you insist on continuing to use was made before Unicode was established, you have no right to claim that it does not match Unicode. Just update your computer and download the free fonts. On Sep 23, 3:57 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Thanks for the reply. I want others in the discussion group to say what they want to say. Your argument does not justify violation of the unicode by Microsoft. Whether latest or very old the violation has been done. That is the point. I wish some person from the Microsoft connected with this font work come up and reply. May be you can arrange for it. May be, dear Grammatim, you are not competent to answer my query. "grammatim" wrote: It has not been "eight days" since your last posting. I have read your blog page called "Grammatim" and I have no idea what you are talking about. Mangal font is on my computer -- installed with Vista last month; until I get my old hard drive back, I cannot know whether some recent earlier version of Mangal did not comply with Unicode -- I opened it with BabelMap and found that it contains every Unicode-specified character in its proper place. (The glyph variants involved in constructing conjuncts and adding matras are handled behind the scenes, by the Devanagari IME.) It is possible that you have a very, very, very old version of Mangal, if you do not have the 110 Mangal characters in their proper places. On Sep 18, 7:45 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: As I had said in my last mail I have loaded a page on my blog. the page is "Grammatim". Please log on the blog and read the page. Also ask other interested in the topic to read it. My blog,http://kothareashok.blog.co.in Ashok Kothare "grammatim" wrote: On Sep 16, 8:03 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Dear Grammatim, you are very sure that everything has been done to make windows suitable to write in Indian languages. "Everything"? I have no idea what "everything" might be. You can type in the 11 standard Indian scripts without adding anything at all to Windows out-of-the-box. Conjuncts are formed, and matras are placed, automatically as you type the sounds of the letters in the order they are spoken -- you don't even need to type i before the consonant, or o both before and after (Bengali). Once you have selected the (or a) keyboard for your language, you begin to get characters in that script, in whatever the system's default might be. For some it's Arial Unicode, for some it's Sylfaen, for some (Urdu, Sindhi), it's Times New Roman. I am afraid you are not correct. Another point you have put is that unicode has been finalized for Indian languages is also not correct. If you see unicodes used by fonts such as 'mangal' you will see that they are not placed on the unicodes recommended for Indian languages but they are put on other nondescript unicode places. It is hardly Unicode's fault that some font designers have failed to adhere to Unicode standards. I have not heard of "mangal"; for what script is it a font? If windows do that how that can be justified? I want "Windows" do not "do that." Font designers do that. Maybe "mangal" is 20 years old and was made before computers could handle more than 128 or 256 characters. Microsoft to be a perfect instrument to get proper unicodes to be used for these languages. I will add one more page to my blog soon to show you the difference in what unicodes are used by microsoft Indian fonts and what are the actuall unicodes offered by the unicode. I want to know why microsoft is doing this? Is it justified to put fonts of a langauge on wrong unicodes? My Certainly not. intentions are that let us do something that is, in given times, helpful to users in India. Please do not misunderstand me. I want to know what Bob has to say. Please visit my blog after 8 days to avoid any misunderstanding. I Post the link here next week. have internet server problem here and that makes it difficult to do posting in time sorry for that. Remember, we Indians wish to use english version of windows and want to write our messages in Indian languages since that is most convenient at this time. We often toggle between both languages and for that english version is most suitable. with regards. I of course use English version of Windows, and I have no trouble typing in any of the Indian languages. I can toggle between English and any of the languages either by choosing them from the Language Bar, or by pressing LeftAlt+Shift, or by assigning a specific shortcut to each keyboard (though because I use many, many different scripts in my work, I have different selections of keyboards installed at different times, so I don't bother with specific shortcuts except for getting back to English.) "grammatim" wrote: Well, to get the link, I had to go to Bob Buckland's message. The "essay" contains a great deal of blather. I gather "orkut" is an Indian ISP? You seem to have two points. (1) Transliteration is not necessary. (2) Windows cannot properly handle Indian scripts. (1) is a matter of opinion and is correct in some circumstances, incorrect in others. (2), as I and others told you more than half a year ago, is simply incorrect. Every version of Windows since I-don't-know-when has provided full support for typing in the 11 standard scripts of India (roman, Nagari, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Bengali, Oriya, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Urdu), with a dedicated keyboard for each. All of them have been included in Unicode since Version 1.0 nearly 20 years ago. On Sep 14, 5:09 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: I am very sorry that the page on my blog was written next day due to internet problem at my end. Now you can read my article on the page Transliteration and please write back for your comments here and also if possible on the comment box of the blog. That page shall remain on the blog for some time now, for all interested observers. Friend Grammtin, please note. "Bob Buckland ?:-)" wrote: Hi Ashok, Can you provide the link to the specific document you're referring to in your post? The Transliteration article on your blog at http://kothareashok.blog.co.in/transliteration/ basically says 'coming soon'. ============== "Ashok Kothare" Ashok wrote in message ... Friends, I am resuming the dialogue after about seven months. Somebody told me that transliteration is the answer to the problem of Indian language inclusion as default font. I have studied the suggestion and come with reply. that reply is in details and so I have put it on my blog. Please visit my blog to read it. It is a research paper too lengthy for this box. URL of my blog http://kothareashok.blog.co.in and you may reply to it on this site as well as on the comment box. - |
#7
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Indian language fonts to be included as default fonts in windo
Firstly, let me confirm that no-one from Microsoft reads this newsgroup.
There may be individual Microsoft employees who read it on their own time (although I doubt it), but it is not officially monitored by Microsoft. I don't know about Google Research but one thing they are not, is connected to Microsoft. Secondly, this seems to be a discussion going nowhere. What grammatim says makes sense, what you, Ashok, say does not make sense to me, although I do accept that that may be due, in part, to my lack of knowledge of Indian scripts. Unicode is a standard supported by all modern software, in so much as special support is needed, but all that unicode really is is a cross reference of code points to named characters. Individual fonts can use whatever glyphs they like to depict the characters at particular code points. Mangal, as installed on my machine, has 110 glyphs at code points in the Devanagari range (0900 to 097F) and I have no reason to think there is anything wrong with them. Are you saying that your version of the font does not have these glyphs? Or that there is something wrong with them? Or are you saying that you have problems entering them from the keyboard? Or what? -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "Ashok Kothare" wrote in message ... How do you know that no one from Microsoft reads this newsgroup? If so why keep it? I have found that Google research reads my comments that means Microsoft definetly knows what is going on in this group. Any way, your advice is perfect but that does not solve the problem. I have put 'My stand' on the page "Grammatim" on my blog. May be it will clear the point. The font I am talking about is copyright 2001. Is it ancient? Unicode were all well set by that time. "grammatim" wrote: No one from Microsoft reads this newsgroup. If the ancient font you insist on continuing to use was made before Unicode was established, you have no right to claim that it does not match Unicode. Just update your computer and download the free fonts. On Sep 23, 3:57 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Thanks for the reply. I want others in the discussion group to say what they want to say. Your argument does not justify violation of the unicode by Microsoft. Whether latest or very old the violation has been done. That is the point. I wish some person from the Microsoft connected with this font work come up and reply. May be you can arrange for it. May be, dear Grammatim, you are not competent to answer my query. "grammatim" wrote: It has not been "eight days" since your last posting. I have read your blog page called "Grammatim" and I have no idea what you are talking about. Mangal font is on my computer -- installed with Vista last month; until I get my old hard drive back, I cannot know whether some recent earlier version of Mangal did not comply with Unicode -- I opened it with BabelMap and found that it contains every Unicode-specified character in its proper place. (The glyph variants involved in constructing conjuncts and adding matras are handled behind the scenes, by the Devanagari IME.) It is possible that you have a very, very, very old version of Mangal, if you do not have the 110 Mangal characters in their proper places. On Sep 18, 7:45 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: As I had said in my last mail I have loaded a page on my blog. the page is "Grammatim". Please log on the blog and read the page. Also ask other interested in the topic to read it. My blog,http://kothareashok.blog.co.in Ashok Kothare "grammatim" wrote: On Sep 16, 8:03 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Dear Grammatim, you are very sure that everything has been done to make windows suitable to write in Indian languages. "Everything"? I have no idea what "everything" might be. You can type in the 11 standard Indian scripts without adding anything at all to Windows out-of-the-box. Conjuncts are formed, and matras are placed, automatically as you type the sounds of the letters in the order they are spoken -- you don't even need to type i before the consonant, or o both before and after (Bengali). Once you have selected the (or a) keyboard for your language, you begin to get characters in that script, in whatever the system's default might be. For some it's Arial Unicode, for some it's Sylfaen, for some (Urdu, Sindhi), it's Times New Roman. I am afraid you are not correct. Another point you have put is that unicode has been finalized for Indian languages is also not correct. If you see unicodes used by fonts such as 'mangal' you will see that they are not placed on the unicodes recommended for Indian languages but they are put on other nondescript unicode places. It is hardly Unicode's fault that some font designers have failed to adhere to Unicode standards. I have not heard of "mangal"; for what script is it a font? If windows do that how that can be justified? I want "Windows" do not "do that." Font designers do that. Maybe "mangal" is 20 years old and was made before computers could handle more than 128 or 256 characters. Microsoft to be a perfect instrument to get proper unicodes to be used for these languages. I will add one more page to my blog soon to show you the difference in what unicodes are used by microsoft Indian fonts and what are the actuall unicodes offered by the unicode. I want to know why microsoft is doing this? Is it justified to put fonts of a langauge on wrong unicodes? My Certainly not. intentions are that let us do something that is, in given times, helpful to users in India. Please do not misunderstand me. I want to know what Bob has to say. Please visit my blog after 8 days to avoid any misunderstanding. I Post the link here next week. have internet server problem here and that makes it difficult to do posting in time sorry for that. Remember, we Indians wish to use english version of windows and want to write our messages in Indian languages since that is most convenient at this time. We often toggle between both languages and for that english version is most suitable. with regards. I of course use English version of Windows, and I have no trouble typing in any of the Indian languages. I can toggle between English and any of the languages either by choosing them from the Language Bar, or by pressing LeftAlt+Shift, or by assigning a specific shortcut to each keyboard (though because I use many, many different scripts in my work, I have different selections of keyboards installed at different times, so I don't bother with specific shortcuts except for getting back to English.) "grammatim" wrote: Well, to get the link, I had to go to Bob Buckland's message. The "essay" contains a great deal of blather. I gather "orkut" is an Indian ISP? You seem to have two points. (1) Transliteration is not necessary. (2) Windows cannot properly handle Indian scripts. (1) is a matter of opinion and is correct in some circumstances, incorrect in others. (2), as I and others told you more than half a year ago, is simply incorrect. Every version of Windows since I-don't-know-when has provided full support for typing in the 11 standard scripts of India (roman, Nagari, Gujarati, Gurmukhi, Bengali, Oriya, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Urdu), with a dedicated keyboard for each. All of them have been included in Unicode since Version 1.0 nearly 20 years ago. On Sep 14, 5:09 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: I am very sorry that the page on my blog was written next day due to internet problem at my end. Now you can read my article on the page Transliteration and please write back for your comments here and also if possible on the comment box of the blog. That page shall remain on the blog for some time now, for all interested observers. Friend Grammtin, please note. "Bob Buckland ?:-)" wrote: Hi Ashok, Can you provide the link to the specific document you're referring to in your post? The Transliteration article on your blog at http://kothareashok.blog.co.in/transliteration/ basically says 'coming soon'. ============== "Ashok Kothare" Ashok wrote in message ... Friends, I am resuming the dialogue after about seven months. Somebody told me that transliteration is the answer to the problem of Indian language inclusion as default font. I have studied the suggestion and come with reply. that reply is in details and so I have put it on my blog. Please visit my blog to read it. It is a research paper too lengthy for this box. URL of my blog http://kothareashok.blog.co.in and you may reply to it on this site as well as on the comment box. - |
#8
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Indian language fonts to be included as default fonts in windo
Once again, you demanded that I read your blog without providing a
link to it. After scrolling back many messages to find the link, I discovered that in the very first sentence of the new addition, you lied about what I said. This is how it starts: *** My stand Grammatim suggests that new version of mangal has 127 characters and they are in the right places given for Devnagari script. If this is so, I mean, new version of mangal has 127 characters then that shows that Microsoft is making one more blunder. How, I shall explain. Font mangal I have is, according to Grammatim, very old font, it has 586 characters and new version has only 127 characters. What happened to all other characters? *** If you will look at the very message you are responding to, you will see that I said that Mangal contains exactly the 110 characters specified by Unicode. Why should I read any essay that so blatantly lies in its opening words? But I go on a few more words and see that you refer to "586 characters." Maybe you are somehow looking at the OpenType resources that _underlie_ the 110 characters. The conjunct aksharas are not individually typed when typing in Nagari; they are automatically called by the computer. Please learn something about how to use your computer before continuing to waste our time. On Sep 24, 7:22*am, Ashok Kothare wrote: How do you know that no one from Microsoft reads this newsgroup? If so why keep it? I have found that Google research reads my comments that means Microsoft definetly knows what is going on in this group. Any way, your advice is perfect but that does not solve the problem. I have put 'My stand' on the page "Grammatim" on my blog. May be it will clear the point. The font I am talking about is copyright 2001. Is it ancient? Unicode were all well set by that time. "grammatim" wrote: No one from Microsoft reads this newsgroup. If the ancient font you insist on continuing to use was made before Unicode was established, you have no right to claim that it does not match Unicode. Just update your computer and download the free fonts. On Sep 23, 3:57 am, Ashok Kothare wrote: Thanks for the reply. I want others in the discussion group to say what they want to say. Your argument does not justify violation of the unicode by Microsoft. Whether latest or very old the violation has been done. That is the point. I wish some person from the Microsoft connected with this font work come up and reply. May be you can arrange for it. May be, dear Grammatim, you are not competent to answer my query. "grammatim" wrote: It has not been "eight days" since your last posting. I have read your blog page called "Grammatim" and I have no idea what you are talking about. Mangal font is on my computer -- installed with Vista last month; until I get my old hard drive back, I cannot know whether some recent earlier version of Mangal did not comply with Unicode -- I opened it with BabelMap and found that it contains every Unicode-specified character in its proper place. (The glyph variants involved in constructing conjuncts and adding matras are handled behind the scenes, by the Devanagari IME.) It is possible that you have a very, very, very old version of Mangal, if you do not have the 110 Mangal characters in their proper places.. |
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