Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
ANN: Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
If you've installed Word 2007 and are missing the old
menus, or being able to customize and float toolbars, there's a new utility you may want to check out: http://www.toolbartoggle.com If you decide to buy, you can get a 5% discount on any order using the coupon code MVPCINDY -- Cindy Meister |
#2
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
For folks still on dial up, please note that the trial copy of "ToolbarToggle" for Word & Excel 2007 is a 68MB download
============== "Cindy M." wrote in message news:VA.00000c24.019b28a7@speedy... If you've installed Word 2007 and are missing the old menus, or being able to customize and float toolbars, there's a new utility you may want to check out: http://www.toolbartoggle.com If you decide to buy, you can get a 5% discount on any order using the coupon code MVPCINDY -- Cindy Meister -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#3
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Hi Bob,
For folks still on dial up, please note that the trial copy of "ToolbarToggle" for Word & Excel 2007 is a 68MB download Ooops, right. As soon as we live in the "jet propelled" lands, we do tend to forget that. How long did (or would) it take you? On what connection speed? Cindy Meister |
#4
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
68 MB? That's really large. Is the .NET framework and the VSTO runtime
engine packaged into that file? Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP] -------------- http://pschmid.net *** Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80 *** Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote *** Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed " wrote in message news:VA.00000c2c.003848c0@speedy: Hi Bob, For folks still on dial up, please note that the trial copy of "ToolbarToggle" for Word & Excel 2007 is a 68MB download Ooops, right. As soon as we live in the "jet propelled" lands, we do tend to forget that. How long did (or would) it take you? On what connection speed? Cindy Meister |
#5
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Hi Patrick,
Good point. First, there are two version of the program in that zip. ToolbarToggle and ToolbarToggleLite which the user may install seperately. Also, we support XP, XP SP2, Server 2005, VISTA, and we can't count on machines having all the necessary Microsoft system files. So rather than possibly confusing people making them decide between between two different versions of the application, for two different applications, for X number of operating system components - we compromised on size and made a one size fits all. Our genuine apologies to those on dial-up. For users on slow connection, perhaps if you do it at night - we promise the applicaiotn is worth it! |
#6
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
I just got the zip file. You have a copy of the .net framework in the
zip twice. Quite frankly, that's a bit excessive. Why don't you have the setup bootstrapper of each add-in get the .net framework as well as Windows Installer on demand if necessary directly from MS? That would save you a lot of space and get the files down to a reasonable size while still working for all configurations. Also, you only need extensibilityMSM.msi from KB908002. Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP] -------------- http://pschmid.net *** Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80 *** Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote *** Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed " wrote in message oups.com: Hi Patrick, Good point. First, there are two version of the program in that zip. ToolbarToggle and ToolbarToggleLite which the user may install seperately. Also, we support XP, XP SP2, Server 2005, VISTA, and we can't count on machines having all the necessary Microsoft system files. So rather than possibly confusing people making them decide between between two different versions of the application, for two different applications, for X number of operating system components - we compromised on size and made a one size fits all. Our genuine apologies to those on dial-up. For users on slow connection, perhaps if you do it at night - we promise the applicaiotn is worth it! |
#7
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Patrick, you have a point but its not completely accurate to say we
have the .NET framework in the zip file twice. What we do have is two separate installers because ToolbarToggle and ToolbarToggleLite are completely separate programs which users may - or may not choose to install on the same machine. Hence, each is a stand-alone installer for a stand-alone application. From what we have been told, High speed downloads average 1-4 minutes. 56k dial-ups between 21 and 30 minutes. We completely empathize with any complaints that dial up users have and if we could significantly improve the download speed while trying to provide bullet proof installers we would. That said, if for any reason a ~25 minute download (or even if it were a 1 hour download) somehow prevents a user from benefiting from what ToolbarToggle offers - we totally respect their opinion and hope they will look past the pain of the initial download. ToolbarToggle can be so helpful for users by easing their migration to Office / Word / Excel 2007 and returning the UI capabilities power users want as well like creating their own toolbars / menus with drag- and-drop AutoText and Macro buttons. It would be unfortunate if the download size prevented people from missing these features and not getting the full benefits that Office / Word / Excel 2007 has to offer. |
#8
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Patrick, you have a point but its not completely accurate to say we
have the .NET framework in the zip file twice. What we do have is two separate installers because ToolbarToggle and ToolbarToggleLite are completely separate programs which users may - or may not choose to install on the same machine. Hence, each is a stand-alone installer for a stand-alone application. Each self-extracting EXE file contains the .NET Framework as well as Windows Installer 3.1. As the zip file contains two self-extracting EXE files, that means you have the .NET Framework and Windows Installer 3.1 in the zip file twice. My statement is accurate. Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP] -------------- http://pschmid.net *** Outlook 2007 Performance Update: http://pschmid.net/blog/2007/04/13/105 Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80 *** Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote *** Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed |
#9
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
From what we have been told,
High speed downloads average 1-4 minutes. 56k dial-ups between 21 and 30 minutes. I think you have been told wrong. Of course actual speeds can vary but 4 or 5 minutes per megabyte is about what I would expect on a 56K dialup and 68 meg is going to take of the order of 3 hours. if the connection fails after, say, 2 hours (as they often do) then, well you get the picture. For most people on dialup this is too big a download to be realistic. -- Enjoy, Tony Jollans Microsoft Word MVP wrote in message oups.com... Patrick, you have a point but its not completely accurate to say we have the .NET framework in the zip file twice. What we do have is two separate installers because ToolbarToggle and ToolbarToggleLite are completely separate programs which users may - or may not choose to install on the same machine. Hence, each is a stand-alone installer for a stand-alone application. From what we have been told, High speed downloads average 1-4 minutes. 56k dial-ups between 21 and 30 minutes. We completely empathize with any complaints that dial up users have and if we could significantly improve the download speed while trying to provide bullet proof installers we would. That said, if for any reason a ~25 minute download (or even if it were a 1 hour download) somehow prevents a user from benefiting from what ToolbarToggle offers - we totally respect their opinion and hope they will look past the pain of the initial download. ToolbarToggle can be so helpful for users by easing their migration to Office / Word / Excel 2007 and returning the UI capabilities power users want as well like creating their own toolbars / menus with drag- and-drop AutoText and Macro buttons. It would be unfortunate if the download size prevented people from missing these features and not getting the full benefits that Office / Word / Excel 2007 has to offer. |
#10
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
I can't see this suggested, but forgive me if it has: why not provide two
separate downloads, one for the Lite version and a separate one for the full version. And by the way: Microsoft assure me that you won't sell any of these because users never edit their toolbars! g -- Terry Farrell - MS Word MVP wrote in message oups.com... Patrick, you have a point but its not completely accurate to say we have the .NET framework in the zip file twice. What we do have is two separate installers because ToolbarToggle and ToolbarToggleLite are completely separate programs which users may - or may not choose to install on the same machine. Hence, each is a stand-alone installer for a stand-alone application. From what we have been told, High speed downloads average 1-4 minutes. 56k dial-ups between 21 and 30 minutes. We completely empathize with any complaints that dial up users have and if we could significantly improve the download speed while trying to provide bullet proof installers we would. That said, if for any reason a ~25 minute download (or even if it were a 1 hour download) somehow prevents a user from benefiting from what ToolbarToggle offers - we totally respect their opinion and hope they will look past the pain of the initial download. ToolbarToggle can be so helpful for users by easing their migration to Office / Word / Excel 2007 and returning the UI capabilities power users want as well like creating their own toolbars / menus with drag- and-drop AutoText and Macro buttons. It would be unfortunate if the download size prevented people from missing these features and not getting the full benefits that Office / Word / Excel 2007 has to offer. |
#11
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Fri, 13 Apr 2007 01:01:05 -0700 from "Bob Buckland ?:-\)"
75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com: For folks still on dial up, please note that the trial copy of "ToolbarToggle" for Word & Excel 2007 is a 68MB download Good heavens! I'd be disinclined on principle to download something so large relative to the task it has to accomplish. Does anyone know *why* it's so large? -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/ |
#12
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:20:28 +0100 from "Tony Jollans" My forename at
my surname dot com: wrote in message oups.com... Patrick, you have a point but its not completely accurate to say we have the .NET framework in the zip file twice. What we do have is two separate installers because ToolbarToggle and ToolbarToggleLite are completely separate programs which users may - or may not choose to install on the same machine. Hence, each is a stand-alone installer for a stand-alone application. If they are separate applications, they should be separate downloads. The only justification for having them in the same download is if neither one works without the other. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/ |
#13
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Terry -
I really appreciate all the feedback people have given on this regaring the size of the setup program. And your suggestion is excellent - So that we implement this correctly I'd really appreciate any feedback on these questions: Please try and anwser these from the perspective of the very non- technical user. Background ---------------- 1. Currrently, inside one zip file, we have two sef-extracting EXE's. One EXE is the installer for ToolbarToggle and the oher is for ToolbarToggleLite. 2. Each EXE has a copy of the .NET 2.0 framework 9in case the use decideds to put one app on one machine and the other app on the other machine) - this won't change - we don't want the user dynamically downloading versions of the framework for a number of reasons. 3. We have a few KB fixes we must install if the user hasn't already - this can't change. So together - that comes to 35mb Questions --------------- 1. How should we offer the downloads? 1 Combined zip or 2 separate EXE's? or 2 separate Zips? (each seperate ZIP / EXE will be 35mb and the combined will be 70mb) 2. If your answer above is seperate downloads, what is a way to explain it that is less confusing to the non-technical user? If you know of any sites that explain this well that would help? 3. Should we have text telling people the size and expected download times - does that help? 4. What else is needed but wouldn't be confusing for the non-technical user? Currently, 1. Should we offer a zip download On Apr 14, 4:11 am, "Terry Farrell" wrote: I can't see this suggested, but forgive me if it has: why not provide two separate downloads, one for the Lite version and a separate one for the full version. And by the way: Microsoft assure me that you won't sell any of these because users never edit their toolbars! g -- Terry Farrell - MS Word MVP wrote in message oups.com... Patrick, you have a point but its not completely accurate to say we have the .NET framework in the zip file twice. What we do have is two separate installers becauseToolbarToggleand ToolbarToggleLite are completely separate programs which users may - or may not choose to install on the same machine. Hence, each is a stand-alone installer for a stand-alone application. From what we have been told, High speed downloads average 1-4 minutes. 56k dial-ups between 21 and 30 minutes. We completely empathize with any complaints that dial up users have and if we could significantly improve the download speed while trying to provide bullet proof installers we would. That said, if for any reason a ~25 minute download (or even if it were a 1 hour download) somehow prevents a user from benefiting from whatToolbarToggleoffers - we totally respect their opinion and hope they will look past the pain of the initial download. ToolbarTogglecan be so helpful for users by easing their migration to Office / Word / Excel 2007 and returning the UI capabilities power users want as well like creating their own toolbars / menus with drag- and-drop AutoText and Macro buttons. It would be unfortunate if the download size prevented people from missing these features and not getting the full benefits that Office / Word / Excel 2007 has to offer. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#14
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Okay. Thanks. I just responded with some questions to Terry - would
love to get your feedback on those. |
#15
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
And by the way: Microsoft assure me that you won't sell any of these because
users never edit their toolbars! g LOL! yeah - I know, we totally missed the obvious, huh? but now that I do think of it - we also must've totally missed that although our installed program is only 12mb, the size of the setup program would overshadow the most important point which is a program that solves what people have been screaming about! Guess we are 0 for 2, huh? |
#16
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
14 Apr 2007 09:43:02 -0700 from :
Okay. Thanks. I just responded with some questions to Terry - would love to get your feedback on those. To whom do you refer by "your"? Posting a followup with no context is just as bad as posting one and quoting the entire preceding article. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/ |
#17
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
wrote:
1. How should we offer the downloads? 1 Combined zip or 2 separate EXE's? or 2 separate Zips? (each seperate ZIP / EXE will be 35mb and the combined will be 70mb) I'm a Mac user and not your target market--but I would imagine that users can handle seeing that there are two options, Toolbar Toggle and the Lite version, looking at a page that compares the features in an easy to understand matrix, and picking which one they want to download. I see this exact progress on a lot of small developer sites. I would be much more confused to download something and then discover that there were two programs and have to investigate what I wanted to do with them at that point--especially since, as I surf the web, I'm in "investigate, gather info, make a decision" mode. Once I've downloaded a program, I'm in "install and experiment" mode, not decide whether I want the Lite or Full version. 2. If your answer above is seperate downloads, what is a way to explain it that is less confusing to the non-technical user? If you know of any sites that explain this well that would help? This is deep overkill for you plus a complex program, but an example I was just at yesterday: http://devon-technologies.com/produc...omparison.html But an FAQ "what's the difference between full and Lite" would be plenty. 3. Should we have text telling people the size and expected download times - does that help? Absolutely! Probably just the size is enough, as times vary. Anyone still on dialup probably has a sense of how their system works. I'd link to "why so large?" because people are concerned about downloading spyware. 4. What else is needed but wouldn't be confusing for the non-technical user? I find the downloadable PDF FAQ annoying. Make it a webpage, and make it more prominent, as it has some of what I suggest above, but chop it up--some of it belongs under Support, some under Benefits. How to Install belongs under both Trial and Support. Etc. As is, people effectively have to read the entire FAQ before even deciding if they want to download, that's silly. Consider the stages a potential user will move through--"what is this and do I want it? now that I have it how do I use it? ai-yi-yi it went wrong, what do I do? how do I remove it?" and give them supporting information at each stage, not all at once. People on dialup don't view Demos, making the Benefits page effectively useless for them, they can't even focus on those moving toolbars. Also, Why, Benefits, and Features all speak to the same issue "what does this program do" and thus the person who comes to the page trying to investigate this doesn't know which one of those to click on. People have also said they wanted better and bigger screenshots of what the program looks like installed. And, in general, I don't like programs with only a 10 day trial. 30 days is much more common (in my Mac world), and anything under two weeks just seems cheap. Especially since your target market probably includes people who only open Word/Excel once a week. Hope that's useful--an attractive site, though the inability to link directly to a Features Page is annoying. Daiya |
#19
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
2. Each EXE has a copy of the .NET 2.0 framework 9in case the use
decideds to put one app on one machine and the other app on the other machine) - this won't change - we don't want the user dynamically downloading versions of the framework for a number of reasons. Why not? Dynamically downloading the framework & Windows Installer 3.1 is a viable approach. No single user of my add-in has complained about any problems with that to me. If you want to be on the safe side, offer the main download without the framework and windows installer packaged while you also have an alternate download that has the two things packaged. 3. We have a few KB fixes we must install if the user hasn't already - this can't change. You don't. As long as you package Microsoft.Office.Interop.Word.dll, Microsoft.Office.Interop.Excel.dll, office.dll, Microsoft.Vbe.Interop.dll, stdole.dll and extensibility.dll in your MSI (and I think you won't get away without registering extensibility.dll in the GAC, the others I know you don't have to), you'll be fine. The KB908002 you are currently installing is only needed because it contains extensibility.dll. MS changed the KB to list that it applies to Office 2007 too, because I asked them too. I only figured out recently when I went from a VS setup program to a wix based one, that all the KB helped with was extensibility.dll. I still need to ask MS to change the KB to reflect the real situation. If you don't want to change to dynamic downloading of the Framework and the Windows Installer, why don't you package it all into one self-extracting EXE? Name one setup program setupToolbarToogle.exe and the other setupToolbarToogleLight.exe. Then write a tiny native setup.exe program that presents the user with a choice of either installing ToolbarToogle or ToolbarToogleLight. Depending on the user choice's, launch the appropriate setup program and you are all set. This way you cut your size easily into half because you only have the .net framework and windows installer in there once. I'd definitely advise to post the size of the download on your website next to any download link. I personally wouldn't be surprised if a good number of users start the download and abort it when they see the size. Announcing it before they start the download might prevent that. Size is often a perception issue, and add-ins are perceived to be small things. For example, I had one user complain to me about the download size of my add-in when it from somewhere around 6 MB to 10 MB for a particular private build I gave that user. He was very happy to hear that I got it back down to around 7... 68 MB is simply too large. It is a reason for users to not even try your add-in. Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP] -------------- http://pschmid.net *** Outlook 2007 Performance Update: http://pschmid.net/blog/2007/04/13/105 Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80 *** Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote *** Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed |
#20
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
I have not installed the trial at the moment, but I will be in the coming week. I am looking forward to getting it up and running as it is potentially is what I really need. I am a great advocate of having a task-orientated toolbar attached to a template and although I do really like the ribbons, they are too inflexible. The QAT goes some way towards my goal but again it lacks flexibility. Terry Farrell wrote in message oups.com... And by the way: Microsoft assure me that you won't sell any of these because users never edit their toolbars! g LOL! yeah - I know, we totally missed the obvious, huh? but now that I do think of it - we also must've totally missed that although our installed program is only 12mb, the size of the setup program would overshadow the most important point which is a program that solves what people have been screaming about! Guess we are 0 for 2, huh? |
#21
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:15:57 +0000 from Patrick Schmid [MVP]
: 68 MB is simply too large. It is a reason for users to not even try your add-in. Well said! -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/ |
#22
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
I want to thank everyone who particpated in this conversation. It was
very, very helpful to us. We can't address everything immediately but we have made a number of changes the most significant being ..... each download is only 6.5mb!!!!! Thanks Patrick! |
#23
Posted to microsoft.public.word.customization.menustoolbars,microsoft.public.word.docmanagement,microsoft.public.word.newusers
|
|||
|
|||
Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007
Excellent! Far more manageable and will make the punters happier.
Terry Farrell wrote in message oups.com... I want to thank everyone who particpated in this conversation. It was very, very helpful to us. We can't address everything immediately but we have made a number of changes the most significant being ..... each download is only 6.5mb!!!!! Thanks Patrick! |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
ANN: Use Word 2003 menus and toolbars in Word 2007 | Microsoft Word Help | |||
Custom toolbars and menus in 2007 | New Users | |||
menus and toolbars in word | Microsoft Word Help | |||
Toolbars and menus gone from MS Word 2000. With no toolbar to ri. | Microsoft Word Help | |||
All of my menus and toolbars in word have disappeared and I don't. | Microsoft Word Help |