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#1
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
I need space between a table and a "body text" paragraph following the
table. My "body text" style uses only "space after", and zero "space before". I believe this is what is generally recommended for the body text style. So right now the paragraph following the table is too close to the table, and I insert a blank line. What do professional document people do in this situation? Thanks |
#2
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
I have a Body Text Space Before style (with 12 pts Space Before) that I use
for this and other such situations. The following style is set to Body Text (or Body Text First Indent, depending on which I'm using as the predominant style). -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... I need space between a table and a "body text" paragraph following the table. My "body text" style uses only "space after", and zero "space before". I believe this is what is generally recommended for the body text style. So right now the paragraph following the table is too close to the table, and I insert a blank line. What do professional document people do in this situation? Thanks |
#3
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Hi Brian,
I use body text in my table for text more often than not so the space after theme follows or if I use Tablebody style same result. If you have Normal as your style or your preferred style is in Single space in your table THEN select last row Table Properties Options Change Bottom to 0.12 or less or more. Hope this helps. "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... I need space between a table and a "body text" paragraph following the table. My "body text" style uses only "space after", and zero "space before". I believe this is what is generally recommended for the body text style. So right now the paragraph following the table is too close to the table, and I insert a blank line. What do professional document people do in this situation? Thanks |
#4
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Adding Space After to text in the table isn't helpful if the table has a
border since the space is added *inside* the table (and border) rather than below it (in contrast to its behavior with paragraph borders). -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Jules" wrote in message ... Hi Brian, I use body text in my table for text more often than not so the space after theme follows or if I use Tablebody style same result. If you have Normal as your style or your preferred style is in Single space in your table THEN select last row Table Properties Options Change Bottom to 0.12 or less or more. Hope this helps. "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... I need space between a table and a "body text" paragraph following the table. My "body text" style uses only "space after", and zero "space before". I believe this is what is generally recommended for the body text style. So right now the paragraph following the table is too close to the table, and I insert a blank line. What do professional document people do in this situation? Thanks |
#5
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Thanks for the suggestions.
My tables have borders, so it looks like my options are to use a special style for the paragraph following the table, or else insert a blank line after the table (i.e. an empty paragraph in plain Normal style). Since I frequently copy and move paragraphs, it looks like an empty Normal paragraph is the best choice for me. It's a pity a table can't have its own setting for space after. It would be handy for documents where table captions go above tables. Otherwise my Table Caption style could take care of it. Brian |
#6
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
You can insert a blank table row - does the same thing - creates the space
you need and you don't have to worry about single space returns. After you insert the row, split the table with your curse on this last row. Then remove the border make sure the spacing is correct change to suit if you require more or less space and save it has an autotext entry for future use named, for example: tbr (table blank row). Save your autotext entry to your global template or normal.dot (but back up normal.dot) I use global xxx.dot and xxx.dotm templates (2003/2007) and next time you need to do it you put cursor below table and type tbr (autotext is not case sensitive) and press F3 key and it will insert. Post back you need further explanation. "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... Thanks for the suggestions. My tables have borders, so it looks like my options are to use a special style for the paragraph following the table, or else insert a blank line after the table (i.e. an empty paragraph in plain Normal style). Since I frequently copy and move paragraphs, it looks like an empty Normal paragraph is the best choice for me. It's a pity a table can't have its own setting for space after. It would be handy for documents where table captions go above tables. Otherwise my Table Caption style could take care of it. Brian |
#7
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Isn't that something!
The thought actually occurred to me to add an empty extra row to my table and format it with no borders. So I recalled this thread to ask if this was a good approach. I followed the autotext steps you described. I think I did everything correctly. Now I can put the cursor on an empty line below my table, type tbr and hit F3. This creates an empty one row table with no border. When I do this, the one row table is evidently not part of my table. It does indeed create the desired "space after". I was wondering, though, if this has any advantage over simply putting an empty paragraph after the table? I haven't tried to do this yet, but my thought was to try to create a table style where just the last row has no borders. Is this a valid approach? I've read some things about Word's table styles that make it sound like you can go nuts trying to get them to do what you want. Brian On Jun 14, 11:48 pm, "Jules" wrote: You can insert a blank table row - does the same thing - creates the space you need and you don't have to worry about single space returns. After you insert the row, split the table with your curse on this last row. Then remove the border make sure the spacing is correct change to suit if you require more or less space and save it has an autotext entry for future use named, for example: tbr (table blank row). Save your autotext entry to your global template or normal.dot (but back up normal.dot) I use global xxx.dot and xxx.dotm templates (2003/2007) and next time you need to do it you put cursor below table and type tbr (autotext is not case sensitive) and press F3 key and it will insert. Post back you need further explanation. "Brian Murphy" wrote in ... |
#8
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Hi Brian,
Yes it is a valid approach and if it suits your purposes best then that is what you do - save whole table as autotext for future use though (no need to work too hard). One reason the table row you create should only be in autotext is so users can press tab in last table row and a new formatted row as per your table with border and other formatting is maintained. When you are finished with your table formatted with border add your autotext row. That's the only reason. OR the piece de resistance in Table tricks you can use if you want to add your blank row to your original table is do as I first suggested above - create the new row in the current table, split table at that last row and format the last row without border and join back to table (save a copy of table in autotext for future use if you use this base table format frequently). THEN move your cursor to row mark at end of row on second last row (outside border) (or any row you like actually) and press RETURN key to create a new blank table row which will duplicate format of the row above your last non bordered blank row. Either way both tips work and my thanks to Dian Chapman MVP for passing on that tip. The best Word tip I've every learned in all my years using Word. As with all suggestions it depends on what you are trying to do and if it is for a one off table or a frequently used table or many users have to be trained or are proficient - so many different variables to consider which you are aware of and I am not. But I think you will like Dian's table trick I use it everyday. Hope that helps Brian. "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... Isn't that something! The thought actually occurred to me to add an empty extra row to my table and format it with no borders. So I recalled this thread to ask if this was a good approach. I followed the autotext steps you described. I think I did everything correctly. Now I can put the cursor on an empty line below my table, type tbr and hit F3. This creates an empty one row table with no border. When I do this, the one row table is evidently not part of my table. It does indeed create the desired "space after". I was wondering, though, if this has any advantage over simply putting an empty paragraph after the table? I haven't tried to do this yet, but my thought was to try to create a table style where just the last row has no borders. Is this a valid approach? I've read some things about Word's table styles that make it sound like you can go nuts trying to get them to do what you want. Brian On Jun 14, 11:48 pm, "Jules" wrote: You can insert a blank table row - does the same thing - creates the space you need and you don't have to worry about single space returns. After you insert the row, split the table with your curse on this last row. Then remove the border make sure the spacing is correct change to suit if you require more or less space and save it has an autotext entry for future use named, for example: tbr (table blank row). Save your autotext entry to your global template or normal.dot (but back up normal.dot) I use global xxx.dot and xxx.dotm templates (2003/2007) and next time you need to do it you put cursor below table and type tbr (autotext is not case sensitive) and press F3 key and it will insert. Post back you need further explanation. "Brian Murphy" wrote in ... |
#9
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
But Brian was asking about a table style, and I think this would definitely
work, given that you can define distinct formatting for the last row. This wouldn't prevent users from adding rows because the empty last row will still always be the last row. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Jules" wrote in message ... Hi Brian, Yes it is a valid approach and if it suits your purposes best then that is what you do - save whole table as autotext for future use though (no need to work too hard). One reason the table row you create should only be in autotext is so users can press tab in last table row and a new formatted row as per your table with border and other formatting is maintained. When you are finished with your table formatted with border add your autotext row. That's the only reason. OR the piece de resistance in Table tricks you can use if you want to add your blank row to your original table is do as I first suggested above - create the new row in the current table, split table at that last row and format the last row without border and join back to table (save a copy of table in autotext for future use if you use this base table format frequently). THEN move your cursor to row mark at end of row on second last row (outside border) (or any row you like actually) and press RETURN key to create a new blank table row which will duplicate format of the row above your last non bordered blank row. Either way both tips work and my thanks to Dian Chapman MVP for passing on that tip. The best Word tip I've every learned in all my years using Word. As with all suggestions it depends on what you are trying to do and if it is for a one off table or a frequently used table or many users have to be trained or are proficient - so many different variables to consider which you are aware of and I am not. But I think you will like Dian's table trick I use it everyday. Hope that helps Brian. "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... Isn't that something! The thought actually occurred to me to add an empty extra row to my table and format it with no borders. So I recalled this thread to ask if this was a good approach. I followed the autotext steps you described. I think I did everything correctly. Now I can put the cursor on an empty line below my table, type tbr and hit F3. This creates an empty one row table with no border. When I do this, the one row table is evidently not part of my table. It does indeed create the desired "space after". I was wondering, though, if this has any advantage over simply putting an empty paragraph after the table? I haven't tried to do this yet, but my thought was to try to create a table style where just the last row has no borders. Is this a valid approach? I've read some things about Word's table styles that make it sound like you can go nuts trying to get them to do what you want. Brian On Jun 14, 11:48 pm, "Jules" wrote: You can insert a blank table row - does the same thing - creates the space you need and you don't have to worry about single space returns. After you insert the row, split the table with your curse on this last row. Then remove the border make sure the spacing is correct change to suit if you require more or less space and save it has an autotext entry for future use named, for example: tbr (table blank row). Save your autotext entry to your global template or normal.dot (but back up normal.dot) I use global xxx.dot and xxx.dotm templates (2003/2007) and next time you need to do it you put cursor below table and type tbr (autotext is not case sensitive) and press F3 key and it will insert. Post back you need further explanation. "Brian Murphy" wrote in ... |
#10
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them. I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called "Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in styles. It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table, and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final result. I'll worry about that later. Anyway, I just tried the following: Selected the entire last row of one of my tables. Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style. Set "no border" for the last row only. It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last row with no borders. If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table. Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing tables from now on. Cheers, Brian |
#11
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Yes Brian Table Grid uses Table Normal Style that is a default system style-
any new tables you create will follow the format you set with that. If that works for your purposes having every new table with this Table Normal Style great. I use base Table Grid (modified for all my default tables) which resides in Normal.dot or Normal.dotx but keep it very basic as tables are used in 1000s of documents in many different ways every day and not all documents require the exact same table layout (borders being one of them)- tables can be very complex with merged cells and some rows have 1 column, some rows have 3 columns and so on - so the method of duplicating a row with format by moving to the table marker outside the row end and pressing return is the quickest way to duplicate a row for a user to add new information in the appropriate table row format. Glad you resolved your problem. "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so I don't really understand them. I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called "Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in styles. It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table, and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final result. I'll worry about that later. Anyway, I just tried the following: Selected the entire last row of one of my tables. Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style. Set "no border" for the last row only. It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last row with no borders. If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table. Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing tables from now on. Cheers, Brian |
#12
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
If you want to add a bordered row before the unbordered final row, place the
cursor at the end of the penultimate row (just outside the edge of the table) and press enter. This adds an identical row below the row where the cursor was placed. Of course, this works for any row in a table, but by using the penultimate row in this instance, it will give you your new row without effecting the unbordered final row. -- Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so I don't really understand them. I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called "Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in styles. It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table, and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final result. I'll worry about that later. Anyway, I just tried the following: Selected the entire last row of one of my tables. Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style. Set "no border" for the last row only. It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last row with no borders. If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table. Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing tables from now on. Cheers, Brian |
#13
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
I've already suggested that Terry - but not sure if many people know that
penultimate is "second last" - as a way to duplicate format for a table row. "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... If you want to add a bordered row before the unbordered final row, place the cursor at the end of the penultimate row (just outside the edge of the table) and press enter. This adds an identical row below the row where the cursor was placed. Of course, this works for any row in a table, but by using the penultimate row in this instance, it will give you your new row without effecting the unbordered final row. -- Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so I don't really understand them. I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called "Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in styles. It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table, and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final result. I'll worry about that later. Anyway, I just tried the following: Selected the entire last row of one of my tables. Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style. Set "no border" for the last row only. It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last row with no borders. If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table. Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing tables from now on. Cheers, Brian |
#14
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
With a table style, however, this is automatic. If you add a new row, the
previous row is no longer the last row, so it no longer has the "last row" formatting. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... If you want to add a bordered row before the unbordered final row, place the cursor at the end of the penultimate row (just outside the edge of the table) and press enter. This adds an identical row below the row where the cursor was placed. Of course, this works for any row in a table, but by using the penultimate row in this instance, it will give you your new row without effecting the unbordered final row. -- Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so I don't really understand them. I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called "Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in styles. It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table, and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final result. I'll worry about that later. Anyway, I just tried the following: Selected the entire last row of one of my tables. Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style. Set "no border" for the last row only. It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last row with no borders. If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table. Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing tables from now on. Cheers, Brian |
#15
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
You can designate any table style you prefer as your default table style for
a give template. New tables inserted in documents based on that template will use that style. Table Normal (which has no borders) is actually a different style from Table Grid. Table Normal cannot be modified. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Jules" wrote in message ... Yes Brian Table Grid uses Table Normal Style that is a default system style- any new tables you create will follow the format you set with that. If that works for your purposes having every new table with this Table Normal Style great. I use base Table Grid (modified for all my default tables) which resides in Normal.dot or Normal.dotx but keep it very basic as tables are used in 1000s of documents in many different ways every day and not all documents require the exact same table layout (borders being one of them)- tables can be very complex with merged cells and some rows have 1 column, some rows have 3 columns and so on - so the method of duplicating a row with format by moving to the table marker outside the row end and pressing return is the quickest way to duplicate a row for a user to add new information in the appropriate table row format. Glad you resolved your problem. "Brian Murphy" wrote in message ... Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so I don't really understand them. I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called "Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in styles. It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table, and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final result. I'll worry about that later. Anyway, I just tried the following: Selected the entire last row of one of my tables. Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style. Set "no border" for the last row only. It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last row with no borders. If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table. Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing tables from now on. Cheers, Brian |
#16
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Table style is a very good way to get that spacing row in. If, like me, you
are formatting already created tables and rarely have two (out of, say, 20 in a doc) of the same number of columns, merges, spans, and so forth, a table style will suit the situation better than a preformatted grid. Lots of people have trouble with table styles. I do too. Many of the problems with table styles stem from setting text formatting (font, size, alignment) in the table style and then trying to change it later with paragraph styles or manual formatting. But the table style formatting cannot be cleared by regular means. Also, most number columns call for manual formatting (such as centering in the column but aligning on the decimal point) , which may not work properly with table styles. How text in columns is aligned depends on its length. Worse, the table style formatting may wipe out manual formatting you need to keep. Etc. So in many cases, it is best not put text settings in table styles, but to use paragraph styles to format the table text (table heading, table text, and two bullet levels is usually enough). To set up a spacer row in a table style, modify the last row (total row in W2007) and (ignoring the above about text setting) set the font size to something small, line spacing to single, space after & before=0, cell margins=0, row height=6 pt or what you choose. And of course the grid. Be sure to add the blank row to the existing table before you apply the table style. I create a new table style based on Table grid for each project. I apply Table Grid to clear any previous table styling then my table style. PamC Jules wrote: Yes Brian Table Grid uses Table Normal Style that is a default system style- any new tables you create will follow the format you set with that. If that works for your purposes having every new table with this Table Normal Style great. I use base Table Grid (modified for all my default tables) which resides in Normal.dot or Normal.dotx but keep it very basic as tables are used in 1000s of documents in many different ways every day and not all documents require the exact same table layout (borders being one of them)- tables can be very complex with merged cells and some rows have 1 column, some rows have 3 columns and so on - so the method of duplicating a row with format by moving to the table marker outside the row end and pressing return is the quickest way to duplicate a row for a user to add new information in the appropriate table row format. Glad you resolved your problem. Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so I don't really understand them. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] Brian -- Message posted via http://www.officekb.com |
#17
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
PamC you can delete Table Grid (Table Style Normal) any time you like which
resets the Table Grid (table). "PamC via OfficeKB.com" u43222@uwe wrote in message news:861061dd4ad09@uwe... Table style is a very good way to get that spacing row in. If, like me, you are formatting already created tables and rarely have two (out of, say, 20 in a doc) of the same number of columns, merges, spans, and so forth, a table style will suit the situation better than a preformatted grid. Lots of people have trouble with table styles. I do too. Many of the problems with table styles stem from setting text formatting (font, size, alignment) in the table style and then trying to change it later with paragraph styles or manual formatting. But the table style formatting cannot be cleared by regular means. Also, most number columns call for manual formatting (such as centering in the column but aligning on the decimal point) , which may not work properly with table styles. How text in columns is aligned depends on its length. Worse, the table style formatting may wipe out manual formatting you need to keep. Etc. So in many cases, it is best not put text settings in table styles, but to use paragraph styles to format the table text (table heading, table text, and two bullet levels is usually enough). To set up a spacer row in a table style, modify the last row (total row in W2007) and (ignoring the above about text setting) set the font size to something small, line spacing to single, space after & before=0, cell margins=0, row height=6 pt or what you choose. And of course the grid. Be sure to add the blank row to the existing table before you apply the table style. I create a new table style based on Table grid for each project. I apply Table Grid to clear any previous table styling then my table style. PamC Jules wrote: Yes Brian Table Grid uses Table Normal Style that is a default system style- any new tables you create will follow the format you set with that. If that works for your purposes having every new table with this Table Normal Style great. I use base Table Grid (modified for all my default tables) which resides in Normal.dot or Normal.dotx but keep it very basic as tables are used in 1000s of documents in many different ways every day and not all documents require the exact same table layout (borders being one of them)- tables can be very complex with merged cells and some rows have 1 column, some rows have 3 columns and so on - so the method of duplicating a row with format by moving to the table marker outside the row end and pressing return is the quickest way to duplicate a row for a user to add new information in the appropriate table row format. Glad you resolved your problem. Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so I don't really understand them. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] Brian -- Message posted via http://www.officekb.com |
#18
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what method to use to get "space after" a table
Thanks, I didn't know that. That will help when table grid changed in ways
that I don't like. I just realized that I don't have to break my "rule" about no text formatting in table styles after all. All I have to do is set the row height to exactly 6 points--which is what I've just done to my table styles. PamC Jules wrote: PamC you can delete Table Grid (Table Style Normal) any time you like which resets the Table Grid (table). Table style is a very good way to get that spacing row in. If, like me, you [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] Brian -- Message posted via OfficeKB.com http://www.officekb.com/Uwe/Forums.a...neral/200806/1 |
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