[Big Dave]

I'm a developer setting up a project that will build documents by assembling
building blocks that contain various 'stuff'. I'm wrapping all the stuff in
content controls so it can be identified later - Bookmarks aren't 'safe'
enough and don't provide enough control (protection, events, etc.).

My problem is this: if I put a floating object like a logo in a content
control, the paragraph to which it is anchored becomes part of the CC - for
frames, two paragraphs become part of the control. Because of this, every
floating component I add would add one or two paragraph marks Does anyone
know a way to avoid this 'effect'?

Currently, I am looking at having to put all my floating objects into one
content control and trying to hide the additional paragraphs in amongst the
body of the page they are on - far from ideal.

Thanks for any advice!

--
Big Dave

[Cindy M.]

Hi ?B?QmlnIERhdmU=?=,

My problem is this: if I put a floating object like a logo in a content
control, the paragraph to which it is anchored becomes part of the CC - for
frames, two paragraphs become part of the control. Because of this, every
floating component I add would add one or two paragraph marks Does anyone
know a way to avoid this 'effect'?

Exactly how are you putting the frames (and floating objects) into the content
control? A frame definitely requires a paragraph to which it anchors... But
multiple anchors can be attached to a single paragraph mark.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply
in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

[Big Dave]

It is actually quite tricky to get a frame in there. If you create a textbox,
convert to a frame, select the frame and then press the button to insert a
content control, it puts the content control _inside_ the frame. If you
create the frame, select the paragraph to which it is anchored and press the
CC button, it puts a CC in _before_ the paragraph, but still not around the
frame. The only way I can find of doing it is to select the paragraph before
the anchor _and_ the anchored paragraph and insert a CC, hence the two
paragraph marks.

Then, of course, it becomes worse. I want to record multiple frames - all
in CCs - in building blocks and paste them into a document. Every time I do
this, two more paragraphs are inserts, of course, although multiple frames
can be anchored to one point normally, even when they are recorded in a
building block (Quick Part).

When you insert the recorded normal frame quick part, it puts the frame in
and anchors to the current paragrph. Do it again, and the subsequent frame
anchor to the same paragraph. Try that with the CC surrounded frames recorded
in quick parts and you get two carriage returns as well each time.

Any help greatly appreciated! Thanks!

--
Big Dave

"Cindy M." wrote:

Hi ?B?QmlnIERhdmU=?=,

My problem is this: if I put a floating object like a logo in a content
control, the paragraph to which it is anchored becomes part of the CC - for
frames, two paragraphs become part of the control. Because of this, every
floating component I add would add one or two paragraph marks Does anyone
know a way to avoid this 'effect'?

Exactly how are you putting the frames (and floating objects) into the content
control? A frame definitely requires a paragraph to which it anchors... But
multiple anchors can be attached to a single paragraph mark.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply
in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

[Cindy M.]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the detailed account. I see what you mean, and I think I can explain
what you're seeing. But I don't think there's any simple way around the
problem...

Frames are old technology, dating back to the very early days of Word. They've
been around long before the existing textboxes and other graphics stuff, which
has gone through two or three major changes and isn't "native" to Word like
frames are. At a certain point (Word 2002 as I recall), the Word dev team was
faced with a problem about how objects are anchored and the information stored
in Word's binary file format. At that time, for some reason, some of the
information for frames (and tables) started getting stored in more than one
paragraph mark. Some kind of "overrun". Suddenly, moving the paragraph with the
anchor didn't necessarily take the anchor with it; the anchor appear next to one
paragraph, but the link is actually with the preceding one. A real PITA (I was
working with a book template at the time that had call-outs in frames).

I first thought you could perhaps format the one paragraph mark as "hidden", or
as a StyleSeparator. But I notice that in this situation the paragraph won't
"collapse". Then I thought I could use a font size of 1 pt and set the line
spacing to exactly 1 pt. However (and this substantiates the thesis that the
link is to the first paragraph, while the anchor is to the second) this also
affects the formatting of the first paragraph in the frame.

Hmmmm. Would it help you to use the GROUP option? Don't try to put the frames
into single content controls. Insert them "straight", containing a content
control if you need access to the text content of the frame. Then select the
whole document (or a section of it) and use the Group command (this effectively
puts all the selection into one "super" content control that the user can't
see). You can then lock the group control so that the user can work only in
content controls and can't touch anything outside them (including the frames).

It is actually quite tricky to get a frame in there. If you create a textbox,
convert to a frame, select the frame and then press the button to insert a
content control, it puts the content control _inside_ the frame. If you
create the frame, select the paragraph to which it is anchored and press the
CC button, it puts a CC in _before_ the paragraph, but still not around the
frame. The only way I can find of doing it is to select the paragraph before
the anchor _and_ the anchored paragraph and insert a CC, hence the two
paragraph marks.

Then, of course, it becomes worse. I want to record multiple frames - all
in CCs - in building blocks and paste them into a document. Every time I do
this, two more paragraphs are inserts, of course, although multiple frames
can be anchored to one point normally, even when they are recorded in a
building block (Quick Part).

When you insert the recorded normal frame quick part, it puts the frame in
and anchors to the current paragrph. Do it again, and the subsequent frame
anchor to the same paragraph. Try that with the CC surrounded frames recorded
in quick parts and you get two carriage returns as well each time.


Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply
in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

[Big Dave]

Thanks very much for the reply.

It looks like I will have to have a single content control for 'floating
objects' such as frames and, as you suggest, put them in straight so that
they all anchor to one paragraph that shouldn't be too hard to hide.

A shame there isn't a better way, but *shrug* I've worked with Word for long
enough now that I know there will always be work-arounds like this

I believe you helped me out on the query that lead me to using frames - I
would prefer to use a textbox and get away from the 'old tech' frames, but if
you put a textbox in a content control and set it to not be editable (so a
user can't move or resize it) and then put in a CC so the user can put data
inside the textbox and set it to be editable, it still isn't editable

I wonder if it's worth trying to push for these 'features' to be patched?

--
Big Dave UK x


"Cindy M." wrote:

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the detailed account. I see what you mean, and I think I can explain
what you're seeing. But I don't think there's any simple way around the
problem...

Frames are old technology, dating back to the very early days of Word. They've
been around long before the existing textboxes and other graphics stuff, which
has gone through two or three major changes and isn't "native" to Word like
frames are. At a certain point (Word 2002 as I recall), the Word dev team was
faced with a problem about how objects are anchored and the information stored
in Word's binary file format. At that time, for some reason, some of the
information for frames (and tables) started getting stored in more than one
paragraph mark. Some kind of "overrun". Suddenly, moving the paragraph with the
anchor didn't necessarily take the anchor with it; the anchor appear next to one
paragraph, but the link is actually with the preceding one. A real PITA (I was
working with a book template at the time that had call-outs in frames).

I first thought you could perhaps format the one paragraph mark as "hidden", or
as a StyleSeparator. But I notice that in this situation the paragraph won't
"collapse". Then I thought I could use a font size of 1 pt and set the line
spacing to exactly 1 pt. However (and this substantiates the thesis that the
link is to the first paragraph, while the anchor is to the second) this also
affects the formatting of the first paragraph in the frame.

Hmmmm. Would it help you to use the GROUP option? Don't try to put the frames
into single content controls. Insert them "straight", containing a content
control if you need access to the text content of the frame. Then select the
whole document (or a section of it) and use the Group command (this effectively
puts all the selection into one "super" content control that the user can't
see). You can then lock the group control so that the user can work only in
content controls and can't touch anything outside them (including the frames).

It is actually quite tricky to get a frame in there. If you create a textbox,
convert to a frame, select the frame and then press the button to insert a
content control, it puts the content control _inside_ the frame. If you
create the frame, select the paragraph to which it is anchored and press the
CC button, it puts a CC in _before_ the paragraph, but still not around the
frame. The only way I can find of doing it is to select the paragraph before
the anchor _and_ the anchored paragraph and insert a CC, hence the two
paragraph marks.

Then, of course, it becomes worse. I want to record multiple frames - all
in CCs - in building blocks and paste them into a document. Every time I do
this, two more paragraphs are inserts, of course, although multiple frames
can be anchored to one point normally, even when they are recorded in a
building block (Quick Part).

When you insert the recorded normal frame quick part, it puts the frame in
and anchors to the current paragrph. Do it again, and the subsequent frame
anchor to the same paragraph. Try that with the CC surrounded frames recorded
in quick parts and you get two carriage returns as well each time.


Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply
in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

[Cindy M.]

Hi ?B?QmlnIERhdmU=?=,

I believe you helped me out on the query that lead me to using frames - I
would prefer to use a textbox and get away from the 'old tech' frames, but if
you put a textbox in a content control and set it to not be editable (so a
user can't move or resize it) and then put in a CC so the user can put data
inside the textbox and set it to be editable, it still isn't editable

I wonder if it's worth trying to push for these 'features' to be patched?

If you can put together a well-formulated description of the problem(s),
including repro steps PLUS concise arguments as to why the functionality is
required, I can certainly pass it on to the "powers". Since the functionality is
new and destined for expansion, they will certainly look at things. I'd put the
emphasis on what is required as the end-result, rather than saying "fix the old
tech".

Hmmm. An alternate route occurs to me: have you tried using a floating table
(cell) instead of a frame or textbox?

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply
in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

[Big Dave]

It's not easy to get the floating objects, in this case frames, into a CC.

I found that if you insert a frame into a document, select the frame then
insert a CC, the CC goes _inside_ the frame.
If you select the paragraph the frame is attached to and insert a CC, the CC
goes in _before_ the paragraph and ouside the frame.
I have only found one way, and that is to select the paragraph before the
anchor and the paragraph the anchor is on and insert the CC. This works, but
when you then 'record' the CC into a Quick Part building block for later
insertion, of course those two paragraphs come with it everytime.

When you insert a frame, select it and record it into a building block, you
can insert that BB as many times as you like and they will all anchor to the
same paragraph.

So, I guess I need a way to apply a CC to the frame without needing to
include the two surrounding paragraphs.

Would love you if you had any ideas to help!

Thanks!

--
Big Dave

"Cindy M." wrote:

Hi ?B?QmlnIERhdmU=?=,

My problem is this: if I put a floating object like a logo in a content
control, the paragraph to which it is anchored becomes part of the CC - for
frames, two paragraphs become part of the control. Because of this, every
floating component I add would add one or two paragraph marks Does anyone
know a way to avoid this 'effect'?

Exactly how are you putting the frames (and floating objects) into the content
control? A frame definitely requires a paragraph to which it anchors... But
multiple anchors can be attached to a single paragraph mark.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply
in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

[Big Dave]

Sorry if there are multiple posts - there seems to be some problem with my
reply showing, so I've tried a couple of times...

--
Big Dave


"Cindy M." wrote:

Hi ?B?QmlnIERhdmU=?=,

My problem is this: if I put a floating object like a logo in a content
control, the paragraph to which it is anchored becomes part of the CC - for
frames, two paragraphs become part of the control. Because of this, every
floating component I add would add one or two paragraph marks Does anyone
know a way to avoid this 'effect'?

Exactly how are you putting the frames (and floating objects) into the content
control? A frame definitely requires a paragraph to which it anchors... But
multiple anchors can be attached to a single paragraph mark.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply
in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)