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Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optional!



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 13th 06, 07:36 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optional!

In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer versions of Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns up the name of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date and time the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the privacy option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and have my name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot opt to remove
the date and time. I believe that information about date and time is
personal, too, and I feel strongly that I should have the option to take it
out.

Here is the situation: I am a freelance editor, and my clients would like
me to make my changes using the Track Changes option instead of the
old-fashioned way (on paper with a red pencil). I don't mind helping them
out that way -- I'm all for going electronic whenever possible -- but I DO
mind that the electronic document will suddenly provide them with information
that was never available to them in the paper version: for example, that I
often work late into the night, or that I often change my mind about a
correction I have made and go back later to revise it. As long as I make my
deadlines, my clients do not need to know when I made my changes and comments
-- they only need to know that the changes and comments have been made.

Please help...thanks!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t
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  #2  
Old June 13th 06, 11:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optional!

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed your mind: just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and change it back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer versions of

Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns up the name

of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date and time

the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the privacy option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and have my

name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot opt to

remove
the date and time. I believe that information about date and time is
personal, too, and I feel strongly that I should have the option to take

it
out.

Here is the situation: I am a freelance editor, and my clients would like
me to make my changes using the Track Changes option instead of the
old-fashioned way (on paper with a red pencil). I don't mind helping them
out that way -- I'm all for going electronic whenever possible -- but I DO
mind that the electronic document will suddenly provide them with

information
that was never available to them in the paper version: for example, that

I
often work late into the night, or that I often change my mind about a
correction I have made and go back later to revise it. As long as I make

my
deadlines, my clients do not need to know when I made my changes and

comments
-- they only need to know that the changes and comments have been made.

Please help...thanks!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow

this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t

  #3  
Old June 14th 06, 03:37 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optional!

Without giving actual examples, it's hard to give you an idea of what I mean
here, so let's say that the author of a manuscript I'm editing creates a
character named Frank. He's Frank from page 1 to page 72, but on page 73, he
suddenly becomes Fred. Only I'm sort of distracted by the author's annoying
habit of putting three exclamation points at the end of every sentence, so I
don't notice that he's Fred until page 175. So now I go back to page 73
(having searched for "Fred" and discovered that that was where the name first
appeared).

Anyone looking at my changes will be able to see that I made the Fred/Frank
change three days (or however long it has been) after the other changes --
deleting of exclamation points, suggestions about ambiguous language, grammar
corrections -- made on the same page. And while my imperfect eye is
something I should be aware of (because being aware of it will make me a
better editor), it is NOT something I need to show my clients...or that,
really, they have any need to know.

Does that make it any clearer why this is so important to me?

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed your mind: just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and change it back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer versions of

Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns up the name

of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date and time

the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the privacy option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and have my

name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot opt to

remove
the date and time. I believe that information about date and time is
personal, too, and I feel strongly that I should have the option to take

it
out.

Here is the situation: I am a freelance editor, and my clients would like
me to make my changes using the Track Changes option instead of the
old-fashioned way (on paper with a red pencil). I don't mind helping them
out that way -- I'm all for going electronic whenever possible -- but I DO
mind that the electronic document will suddenly provide them with

information
that was never available to them in the paper version: for example, that

I
often work late into the night, or that I often change my mind about a
correction I have made and go back later to revise it. As long as I make

my
deadlines, my clients do not need to know when I made my changes and

comments
-- they only need to know that the changes and comments have been made.

Please help...thanks!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow

this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t


  #4  
Old June 14th 06, 04:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optional!

I'm sorry, but you are describing exactly the kind of work I do, and I can't
see that a client would have any reason to care *when* you make the changes
provided the required changes get made. I make numerous passes through the
documents I work on, and I find more mistakes every time. No one can see
everything at once, and I don't think anyone expects you to. Most
instructions I've read actually stipulate that you make several passes. And
I have to say that I read a lot of published books where there is no
evidence that any editor made even one pass, much less several. I recently
proofread the page proofs of a book to be published by Random House (which
had been copyedited and proofread by their editors), and the author (for
whom I was performing the work) and I were equally appalled by the number of
errors I found. I wouldn't care how many times the editor had to read the ms
or backtrack in it provided the errors were corrected.

FWIW, it's also true that the more corrections there are to be made, the
more passes it's going to take. You just can't see everything at once. And a
lot of things you aren't going to know are "errors" till much later. In the
book I'm currently working on, there are stupefyingly thorough bios of two
of the characters early on; neither mentions any military service (or allows
any space in the timeline for it). Several chapters later, they're talking
about their army experiences in Iraq. Another character, a nurse, is shy on
one page and bold on the next (she actually vacillates throughout the book).
Those are just a few of the problems. As it happens, I've about given up on
this book, which the author is self-publishing; I finally decided I'd done
all I could reasonably do, and if the author thinks it's done, I'll just
call it done. I don't think he'll sell more than a couple of dozen copies no
matter how much we polish it, anyway. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
Without giving actual examples, it's hard to give you an idea of what I

mean
here, so let's say that the author of a manuscript I'm editing creates a
character named Frank. He's Frank from page 1 to page 72, but on page 73,

he
suddenly becomes Fred. Only I'm sort of distracted by the author's

annoying
habit of putting three exclamation points at the end of every sentence, so

I
don't notice that he's Fred until page 175. So now I go back to page 73
(having searched for "Fred" and discovered that that was where the name

first
appeared).

Anyone looking at my changes will be able to see that I made the

Fred/Frank
change three days (or however long it has been) after the other changes --
deleting of exclamation points, suggestions about ambiguous language,

grammar
corrections -- made on the same page. And while my imperfect eye is
something I should be aware of (because being aware of it will make me a
better editor), it is NOT something I need to show my clients...or that,
really, they have any need to know.

Does that make it any clearer why this is so important to me?

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed your mind:

just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and change it

back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer versions of

Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns up the

name
of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date and

time
the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the privacy option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and have my

name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot opt to

remove
the date and time. I believe that information about date and time is
personal, too, and I feel strongly that I should have the option to

take
it
out.

Here is the situation: I am a freelance editor, and my clients would

like
me to make my changes using the Track Changes option instead of the
old-fashioned way (on paper with a red pencil). I don't mind helping

them
out that way -- I'm all for going electronic whenever possible -- but

I DO
mind that the electronic document will suddenly provide them with

information
that was never available to them in the paper version: for example,

that
I
often work late into the night, or that I often change my mind about a
correction I have made and go back later to revise it. As long as I

make
my
deadlines, my clients do not need to know when I made my changes and

comments
-- they only need to know that the changes and comments have been

made.

Please help...thanks!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click

the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,

follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and

then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.



http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t



  #5  
Old June 14th 06, 02:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optio

OK, now you've succeeded in really making me laugh...first because you DO
know exactly what I'm talking about, and second because I am so glad the
manuscript I'm working on isn't in THAT much trouble! You would have been
amused by the stunned look on my face the first time a production editor said
to me, "Well, actually, by the time it comes to you, the editor is finished
with it." Meanwhile there I am wondering how on earth this author got a book
contract...and whether or not the editor actually read past page three before
sending it off to the freelance copy editor...

Out of curiosity, do you do most of your editing using Track Changes, or are
you still on pencil and paper too? (The reason all of this has come up for
me is that one client is interested in making the switch. I've never worked
on a huge project using Track Changes, so it'll be a new experience for me.)


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I'm sorry, but you are describing exactly the kind of work I do, and I can't
see that a client would have any reason to care *when* you make the changes
provided the required changes get made. I make numerous passes through the
documents I work on, and I find more mistakes every time. No one can see
everything at once, and I don't think anyone expects you to. Most
instructions I've read actually stipulate that you make several passes. And
I have to say that I read a lot of published books where there is no
evidence that any editor made even one pass, much less several. I recently
proofread the page proofs of a book to be published by Random House (which
had been copyedited and proofread by their editors), and the author (for
whom I was performing the work) and I were equally appalled by the number of
errors I found. I wouldn't care how many times the editor had to read the ms
or backtrack in it provided the errors were corrected.

FWIW, it's also true that the more corrections there are to be made, the
more passes it's going to take. You just can't see everything at once. And a
lot of things you aren't going to know are "errors" till much later. In the
book I'm currently working on, there are stupefyingly thorough bios of two
of the characters early on; neither mentions any military service (or allows
any space in the timeline for it). Several chapters later, they're talking
about their army experiences in Iraq. Another character, a nurse, is shy on
one page and bold on the next (she actually vacillates throughout the book).
Those are just a few of the problems. As it happens, I've about given up on
this book, which the author is self-publishing; I finally decided I'd done
all I could reasonably do, and if the author thinks it's done, I'll just
call it done. I don't think he'll sell more than a couple of dozen copies no
matter how much we polish it, anyway. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
Without giving actual examples, it's hard to give you an idea of what I

mean
here, so let's say that the author of a manuscript I'm editing creates a
character named Frank. He's Frank from page 1 to page 72, but on page 73,

he
suddenly becomes Fred. Only I'm sort of distracted by the author's

annoying
habit of putting three exclamation points at the end of every sentence, so

I
don't notice that he's Fred until page 175. So now I go back to page 73
(having searched for "Fred" and discovered that that was where the name

first
appeared).

Anyone looking at my changes will be able to see that I made the

Fred/Frank
change three days (or however long it has been) after the other changes --
deleting of exclamation points, suggestions about ambiguous language,

grammar
corrections -- made on the same page. And while my imperfect eye is
something I should be aware of (because being aware of it will make me a
better editor), it is NOT something I need to show my clients...or that,
really, they have any need to know.

Does that make it any clearer why this is so important to me?

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed your mind:

just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and change it

back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer versions of
Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns up the

name
of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date and

time
the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the privacy option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and have my
name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot opt to
remove
the date and time. I believe that information about date and time is
personal, too, and I feel strongly that I should have the option to

take
it
out.

Here is the situation: I am a freelance editor, and my clients would

like
me to make my changes using the Track Changes option instead of the
old-fashioned way (on paper with a red pencil). I don't mind helping

them
out that way -- I'm all for going electronic whenever possible -- but

I DO
mind that the electronic document will suddenly provide them with
information
that was never available to them in the paper version: for example,

that
I
often work late into the night, or that I often change my mind about a
correction I have made and go back later to revise it. As long as I

make
my
deadlines, my clients do not need to know when I made my changes and
comments
-- they only need to know that the changes and comments have been

made.

Please help...thanks!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click

the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,

follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and

then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.



http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t




  #6  
Old June 14th 06, 04:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optio

I forgot to mention that the two aforementioned characters were gangsters
from Detroit for half the book, then from Mobile for another half; then,
because of problems with both, we decided to make them be from Chicago, but
the author still keeps sending me stuff that says "Mobile." sigh

As for markup, I do sort of a combination. I don't use red pencil, by the
way, but green pen. In a previous life, I was a teacher (Latin), and I know
that people react adversely to red (one student said it looked like her
paper was hemorrhaging), and actually green (pencil) is traditional for
editing. I do still mark up copy by hand sometimes, but the more I use
computers, the more I find I keep itching to get to the file and correct it
directly. In most cases, the result is what the client is concerned about,
not how it was achieved, so I just make the changes, and they read the
revised edition and (if I've done it right) think, "Wow! I'm a better writer
than I realized." I used to write a lot of comments on the manuscript,
either directly on it or on Post-its, but now I often make a separate
comments file. I don't really like Track Changes because most of the people
I work with are unsophisticated (many of them elderly) and wouldn't know how
to deal with the technology (even for comments). So far I've had no one
specifically request it, and I don't suggest it.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
OK, now you've succeeded in really making me laugh...first because you DO
know exactly what I'm talking about, and second because I am so glad the
manuscript I'm working on isn't in THAT much trouble! You would have been
amused by the stunned look on my face the first time a production editor

said
to me, "Well, actually, by the time it comes to you, the editor is

finished
with it." Meanwhile there I am wondering how on earth this author got a

book
contract...and whether or not the editor actually read past page three

before
sending it off to the freelance copy editor...

Out of curiosity, do you do most of your editing using Track Changes, or

are
you still on pencil and paper too? (The reason all of this has come up

for
me is that one client is interested in making the switch. I've never

worked
on a huge project using Track Changes, so it'll be a new experience for

me.)


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I'm sorry, but you are describing exactly the kind of work I do, and I

can't
see that a client would have any reason to care *when* you make the

changes
provided the required changes get made. I make numerous passes through

the
documents I work on, and I find more mistakes every time. No one can see
everything at once, and I don't think anyone expects you to. Most
instructions I've read actually stipulate that you make several passes.

And
I have to say that I read a lot of published books where there is no
evidence that any editor made even one pass, much less several. I

recently
proofread the page proofs of a book to be published by Random House

(which
had been copyedited and proofread by their editors), and the author (for
whom I was performing the work) and I were equally appalled by the

number of
errors I found. I wouldn't care how many times the editor had to read

the ms
or backtrack in it provided the errors were corrected.

FWIW, it's also true that the more corrections there are to be made, the
more passes it's going to take. You just can't see everything at once.

And a
lot of things you aren't going to know are "errors" till much later. In

the
book I'm currently working on, there are stupefyingly thorough bios of

two
of the characters early on; neither mentions any military service (or

allows
any space in the timeline for it). Several chapters later, they're

talking
about their army experiences in Iraq. Another character, a nurse, is shy

on
one page and bold on the next (she actually vacillates throughout the

book).
Those are just a few of the problems. As it happens, I've about given up

on
this book, which the author is self-publishing; I finally decided I'd

done
all I could reasonably do, and if the author thinks it's done, I'll just
call it done. I don't think he'll sell more than a couple of dozen

copies no
matter how much we polish it, anyway. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
Without giving actual examples, it's hard to give you an idea of what

I
mean
here, so let's say that the author of a manuscript I'm editing creates

a
character named Frank. He's Frank from page 1 to page 72, but on page

73,
he
suddenly becomes Fred. Only I'm sort of distracted by the author's

annoying
habit of putting three exclamation points at the end of every

sentence, so
I
don't notice that he's Fred until page 175. So now I go back to page

73
(having searched for "Fred" and discovered that that was where the

name
first
appeared).

Anyone looking at my changes will be able to see that I made the

Fred/Frank
change three days (or however long it has been) after the other

changes --
deleting of exclamation points, suggestions about ambiguous language,

grammar
corrections -- made on the same page. And while my imperfect eye is
something I should be aware of (because being aware of it will make me

a
better editor), it is NOT something I need to show my clients...or

that,
really, they have any need to know.

Does that make it any clearer why this is so important to me?

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed your

mind:
just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and change

it
back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer

versions of
Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns up

the
name
of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date and

time
the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the privacy

option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and

have my
name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot opt

to
remove
the date and time. I believe that information about date and time

is
personal, too, and I feel strongly that I should have the option

to
take
it
out.

Here is the situation: I am a freelance editor, and my clients

would
like
me to make my changes using the Track Changes option instead of

the
old-fashioned way (on paper with a red pencil). I don't mind

helping
them
out that way -- I'm all for going electronic whenever possible --

but
I DO
mind that the electronic document will suddenly provide them with
information
that was never available to them in the paper version: for

example,
that
I
often work late into the night, or that I often change my mind

about a
correction I have made and go back later to revise it. As long as

I
make
my
deadlines, my clients do not need to know when I made my changes

and
comments
-- they only need to know that the changes and comments have been

made.

Please help...thanks!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to

the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion,

click
the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,

follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader

and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.




http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t





  #7  
Old June 15th 06, 02:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optio

Wow, I never knew that about the color red! I like green, but worry that it
wouldn't show up all that well...and people seem to be pretty used to my red
by now. A copy chief I worked for once had a great system I'd love to
emulate someday: red pencil for changes not to be argued with (serious
grammatical or punctuation issues, malapropisms, etc.) and blue for
suggestions. Of course, she worked at a magazine where everyone had been
trained to know what the colors meant -- as a freelancer, I'd have to attach
an explanation to every returned manuscript!

I still like my pencils and Post-its, I have to say...and while I do get the
same urge you do to just go into the file and correct it, it's an itchy
trigger finger I feel I am duty-bound to resist! Track Changes would
probably keep me from making a lot of the comments I make now, simply because
it's more of a process...and because I hate the look of a marked-up document!
Though maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I fiddled with the color choices...

Anyway, thanks for the commiseration and for the advice. Good luck with
Mobile...I mean Detroit...I mean Chicago...

:-)

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I forgot to mention that the two aforementioned characters were gangsters
from Detroit for half the book, then from Mobile for another half; then,
because of problems with both, we decided to make them be from Chicago, but
the author still keeps sending me stuff that says "Mobile." sigh

As for markup, I do sort of a combination. I don't use red pencil, by the
way, but green pen. In a previous life, I was a teacher (Latin), and I know
that people react adversely to red (one student said it looked like her
paper was hemorrhaging), and actually green (pencil) is traditional for
editing. I do still mark up copy by hand sometimes, but the more I use
computers, the more I find I keep itching to get to the file and correct it
directly. In most cases, the result is what the client is concerned about,
not how it was achieved, so I just make the changes, and they read the
revised edition and (if I've done it right) think, "Wow! I'm a better writer
than I realized." I used to write a lot of comments on the manuscript,
either directly on it or on Post-its, but now I often make a separate
comments file. I don't really like Track Changes because most of the people
I work with are unsophisticated (many of them elderly) and wouldn't know how
to deal with the technology (even for comments). So far I've had no one
specifically request it, and I don't suggest it.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
OK, now you've succeeded in really making me laugh...first because you DO
know exactly what I'm talking about, and second because I am so glad the
manuscript I'm working on isn't in THAT much trouble! You would have been
amused by the stunned look on my face the first time a production editor

said
to me, "Well, actually, by the time it comes to you, the editor is

finished
with it." Meanwhile there I am wondering how on earth this author got a

book
contract...and whether or not the editor actually read past page three

before
sending it off to the freelance copy editor...

Out of curiosity, do you do most of your editing using Track Changes, or

are
you still on pencil and paper too? (The reason all of this has come up

for
me is that one client is interested in making the switch. I've never

worked
on a huge project using Track Changes, so it'll be a new experience for

me.)


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I'm sorry, but you are describing exactly the kind of work I do, and I

can't
see that a client would have any reason to care *when* you make the

changes
provided the required changes get made. I make numerous passes through

the
documents I work on, and I find more mistakes every time. No one can see
everything at once, and I don't think anyone expects you to. Most
instructions I've read actually stipulate that you make several passes.

And
I have to say that I read a lot of published books where there is no
evidence that any editor made even one pass, much less several. I

recently
proofread the page proofs of a book to be published by Random House

(which
had been copyedited and proofread by their editors), and the author (for
whom I was performing the work) and I were equally appalled by the

number of
errors I found. I wouldn't care how many times the editor had to read

the ms
or backtrack in it provided the errors were corrected.

FWIW, it's also true that the more corrections there are to be made, the
more passes it's going to take. You just can't see everything at once.

And a
lot of things you aren't going to know are "errors" till much later. In

the
book I'm currently working on, there are stupefyingly thorough bios of

two
of the characters early on; neither mentions any military service (or

allows
any space in the timeline for it). Several chapters later, they're

talking
about their army experiences in Iraq. Another character, a nurse, is shy

on
one page and bold on the next (she actually vacillates throughout the

book).
Those are just a few of the problems. As it happens, I've about given up

on
this book, which the author is self-publishing; I finally decided I'd

done
all I could reasonably do, and if the author thinks it's done, I'll just
call it done. I don't think he'll sell more than a couple of dozen

copies no
matter how much we polish it, anyway. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
Without giving actual examples, it's hard to give you an idea of what

I
mean
here, so let's say that the author of a manuscript I'm editing creates

a
character named Frank. He's Frank from page 1 to page 72, but on page

73,
he
suddenly becomes Fred. Only I'm sort of distracted by the author's
annoying
habit of putting three exclamation points at the end of every

sentence, so
I
don't notice that he's Fred until page 175. So now I go back to page

73
(having searched for "Fred" and discovered that that was where the

name
first
appeared).

Anyone looking at my changes will be able to see that I made the
Fred/Frank
change three days (or however long it has been) after the other

changes --
deleting of exclamation points, suggestions about ambiguous language,
grammar
corrections -- made on the same page. And while my imperfect eye is
something I should be aware of (because being aware of it will make me

a
better editor), it is NOT something I need to show my clients...or

that,
really, they have any need to know.

Does that make it any clearer why this is so important to me?

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed your

mind:
just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and change

it
back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in
message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer

versions of
Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns up

the
name
of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date and
time
the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the privacy

option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and

have my
name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot opt

to
remove
the date and time. I believe that information about date and time

is
personal, too, and I feel strongly that I should have the option

to
take
it
out.

Here is the situation: I am a freelance editor, and my clients

would
like
me to make my changes using the Track Changes option instead of

the
old-fashioned way (on paper with a red pencil). I don't mind

helping
them
out that way -- I'm all for going electronic whenever possible --

but
I DO
mind that the electronic document will suddenly provide them with
information
that was never available to them in the paper version: for

example,
that
I
often work late into the night, or that I often change my mind

about a
correction I have made and go back later to revise it. As long as

I
make
my
deadlines, my clients do not need to know when I made my changes

and
comments
-- they only need to know that the changes and comments have been
made.

Please help...thanks!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to

the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion,

click
the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader

and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.




http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t






  #8  
Old June 15th 06, 03:50 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optio

Green works well for me because a lot of my authors make *their* corrections
in red or blue. I tend to make my "changes not to be argued with" in the
text, with an explanation (if I feel it's needed) in the margin. I use
Post-its for "suggested" changes or queries. But the more I use computers,
the harder it becomes for me to write much by hand (especially legibly), and
I often go through several Post-its before I get the desired wording on a
"suggestion." That's why a separate file of comments can be helpful,
especially since you can make comments about "passim" sorts of problems,
referencing page numbers of numerous occurrences of the same issue or
drawing attention to conflicts between statements in two locations (whereas
in the ms you'd have to write, "Detroit? Cf. p. x" and "Mobile? Cf. p. x.").

I recently worked on a novel by a well-known and highly acclaimed novelist.
I was typing the ms and wasn't supposed to make any changes at all, but
aside from numerous routine corrections (for which I was predictably
blasted, and they may well all be reversed), I submitted a separate
eight-page file of comments on conflicts, solecisms, awkward phrasing, etc.
I'll be interested to see what gets published. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
Wow, I never knew that about the color red! I like green, but worry that

it
wouldn't show up all that well...and people seem to be pretty used to my

red
by now. A copy chief I worked for once had a great system I'd love to
emulate someday: red pencil for changes not to be argued with (serious
grammatical or punctuation issues, malapropisms, etc.) and blue for
suggestions. Of course, she worked at a magazine where everyone had been
trained to know what the colors meant -- as a freelancer, I'd have to

attach
an explanation to every returned manuscript!

I still like my pencils and Post-its, I have to say...and while I do get

the
same urge you do to just go into the file and correct it, it's an itchy
trigger finger I feel I am duty-bound to resist! Track Changes would
probably keep me from making a lot of the comments I make now, simply

because
it's more of a process...and because I hate the look of a marked-up

document!
Though maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I fiddled with the color choices...

Anyway, thanks for the commiseration and for the advice. Good luck with
Mobile...I mean Detroit...I mean Chicago...

:-)

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I forgot to mention that the two aforementioned characters were

gangsters
from Detroit for half the book, then from Mobile for another half; then,
because of problems with both, we decided to make them be from Chicago,

but
the author still keeps sending me stuff that says "Mobile." sigh

As for markup, I do sort of a combination. I don't use red pencil, by

the
way, but green pen. In a previous life, I was a teacher (Latin), and I

know
that people react adversely to red (one student said it looked like her
paper was hemorrhaging), and actually green (pencil) is traditional for
editing. I do still mark up copy by hand sometimes, but the more I use
computers, the more I find I keep itching to get to the file and correct

it
directly. In most cases, the result is what the client is concerned

about,
not how it was achieved, so I just make the changes, and they read the
revised edition and (if I've done it right) think, "Wow! I'm a better

writer
than I realized." I used to write a lot of comments on the manuscript,
either directly on it or on Post-its, but now I often make a separate
comments file. I don't really like Track Changes because most of the

people
I work with are unsophisticated (many of them elderly) and wouldn't know

how
to deal with the technology (even for comments). So far I've had no one
specifically request it, and I don't suggest it.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
OK, now you've succeeded in really making me laugh...first because you

DO
know exactly what I'm talking about, and second because I am so glad

the
manuscript I'm working on isn't in THAT much trouble! You would have

been
amused by the stunned look on my face the first time a production

editor
said
to me, "Well, actually, by the time it comes to you, the editor is

finished
with it." Meanwhile there I am wondering how on earth this author got

a
book
contract...and whether or not the editor actually read past page three

before
sending it off to the freelance copy editor...

Out of curiosity, do you do most of your editing using Track Changes,

or
are
you still on pencil and paper too? (The reason all of this has come

up
for
me is that one client is interested in making the switch. I've never

worked
on a huge project using Track Changes, so it'll be a new experience

for
me.)


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I'm sorry, but you are describing exactly the kind of work I do, and

I
can't
see that a client would have any reason to care *when* you make the

changes
provided the required changes get made. I make numerous passes

through
the
documents I work on, and I find more mistakes every time. No one can

see
everything at once, and I don't think anyone expects you to. Most
instructions I've read actually stipulate that you make several

passes.
And
I have to say that I read a lot of published books where there is no
evidence that any editor made even one pass, much less several. I

recently
proofread the page proofs of a book to be published by Random House

(which
had been copyedited and proofread by their editors), and the author

(for
whom I was performing the work) and I were equally appalled by the

number of
errors I found. I wouldn't care how many times the editor had to

read
the ms
or backtrack in it provided the errors were corrected.

FWIW, it's also true that the more corrections there are to be made,

the
more passes it's going to take. You just can't see everything at

once.
And a
lot of things you aren't going to know are "errors" till much later.

In
the
book I'm currently working on, there are stupefyingly thorough bios

of
two
of the characters early on; neither mentions any military service

(or
allows
any space in the timeline for it). Several chapters later, they're

talking
about their army experiences in Iraq. Another character, a nurse, is

shy
on
one page and bold on the next (she actually vacillates throughout

the
book).
Those are just a few of the problems. As it happens, I've about

given up
on
this book, which the author is self-publishing; I finally decided

I'd
done
all I could reasonably do, and if the author thinks it's done, I'll

just
call it done. I don't think he'll sell more than a couple of dozen

copies no
matter how much we polish it, anyway. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
Without giving actual examples, it's hard to give you an idea of

what
I
mean
here, so let's say that the author of a manuscript I'm editing

creates
a
character named Frank. He's Frank from page 1 to page 72, but on

page
73,
he
suddenly becomes Fred. Only I'm sort of distracted by the

author's
annoying
habit of putting three exclamation points at the end of every

sentence, so
I
don't notice that he's Fred until page 175. So now I go back to

page
73
(having searched for "Fred" and discovered that that was where the

name
first
appeared).

Anyone looking at my changes will be able to see that I made the
Fred/Frank
change three days (or however long it has been) after the other

changes --
deleting of exclamation points, suggestions about ambiguous

language,
grammar
corrections -- made on the same page. And while my imperfect eye

is
something I should be aware of (because being aware of it will

make me
a
better editor), it is NOT something I need to show my clients...or

that,
really, they have any need to know.

Does that make it any clearer why this is so important to me?

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed your

mind:
just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and

change
it
back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote

in
message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer

versions of
Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns

up
the
name
of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date

and
time
the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the

privacy
option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and

have my
name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot

opt
to
remove
the date and time. I believe that information about date and

time
is
personal, too, and I feel strongly that I should have the

option
to
take
it
out.

Here is the situation: I am a freelance editor, and my

clients
would
like
me to make my changes using the Track Changes option instead

of
the
old-fashioned way (on paper with a red pencil). I don't mind

helping
them
out that way -- I'm all for going electronic whenever

possible --
but
I DO
mind that the electronic document will suddenly provide them

with
information
that was never available to them in the paper version: for

example,
that
I
often work late into the night, or that I often change my mind

about a
correction I have made and go back later to revise it. As

long as
I
make
my
deadlines, my clients do not need to know when I made my

changes
and
comments
-- they only need to know that the changes and comments have

been
made.

Please help...thanks!

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft

responds to
the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion,

click
the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the

button,
follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based

Newsreader
and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.





http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t







  #9  
Old June 16th 06, 04:23 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optio

Ah, yes, I have a very similar system...though I've just spent this evening
trying to pare my comments down to the basics, since apparently this author
is kind of persnickety about her work. Hence the careful wording of
Post-its, too (I'm definitely keeping THAT company in business, the way I go
through them)...

This one gets packed up tomorrow; then on to the next one!

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

Green works well for me because a lot of my authors make *their* corrections
in red or blue. I tend to make my "changes not to be argued with" in the
text, with an explanation (if I feel it's needed) in the margin. I use
Post-its for "suggested" changes or queries. But the more I use computers,
the harder it becomes for me to write much by hand (especially legibly), and
I often go through several Post-its before I get the desired wording on a
"suggestion." That's why a separate file of comments can be helpful,
especially since you can make comments about "passim" sorts of problems,
referencing page numbers of numerous occurrences of the same issue or
drawing attention to conflicts between statements in two locations (whereas
in the ms you'd have to write, "Detroit? Cf. p. x" and "Mobile? Cf. p. x.").

I recently worked on a novel by a well-known and highly acclaimed novelist.
I was typing the ms and wasn't supposed to make any changes at all, but
aside from numerous routine corrections (for which I was predictably
blasted, and they may well all be reversed), I submitted a separate
eight-page file of comments on conflicts, solecisms, awkward phrasing, etc.
I'll be interested to see what gets published. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
Wow, I never knew that about the color red! I like green, but worry that

it
wouldn't show up all that well...and people seem to be pretty used to my

red
by now. A copy chief I worked for once had a great system I'd love to
emulate someday: red pencil for changes not to be argued with (serious
grammatical or punctuation issues, malapropisms, etc.) and blue for
suggestions. Of course, she worked at a magazine where everyone had been
trained to know what the colors meant -- as a freelancer, I'd have to

attach
an explanation to every returned manuscript!

I still like my pencils and Post-its, I have to say...and while I do get

the
same urge you do to just go into the file and correct it, it's an itchy
trigger finger I feel I am duty-bound to resist! Track Changes would
probably keep me from making a lot of the comments I make now, simply

because
it's more of a process...and because I hate the look of a marked-up

document!
Though maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I fiddled with the color choices...

Anyway, thanks for the commiseration and for the advice. Good luck with
Mobile...I mean Detroit...I mean Chicago...

:-)

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I forgot to mention that the two aforementioned characters were

gangsters
from Detroit for half the book, then from Mobile for another half; then,
because of problems with both, we decided to make them be from Chicago,

but
the author still keeps sending me stuff that says "Mobile." sigh

As for markup, I do sort of a combination. I don't use red pencil, by

the
way, but green pen. In a previous life, I was a teacher (Latin), and I

know
that people react adversely to red (one student said it looked like her
paper was hemorrhaging), and actually green (pencil) is traditional for
editing. I do still mark up copy by hand sometimes, but the more I use
computers, the more I find I keep itching to get to the file and correct

it
directly. In most cases, the result is what the client is concerned

about,
not how it was achieved, so I just make the changes, and they read the
revised edition and (if I've done it right) think, "Wow! I'm a better

writer
than I realized." I used to write a lot of comments on the manuscript,
either directly on it or on Post-its, but now I often make a separate
comments file. I don't really like Track Changes because most of the

people
I work with are unsophisticated (many of them elderly) and wouldn't know

how
to deal with the technology (even for comments). So far I've had no one
specifically request it, and I don't suggest it.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
OK, now you've succeeded in really making me laugh...first because you

DO
know exactly what I'm talking about, and second because I am so glad

the
manuscript I'm working on isn't in THAT much trouble! You would have

been
amused by the stunned look on my face the first time a production

editor
said
to me, "Well, actually, by the time it comes to you, the editor is
finished
with it." Meanwhile there I am wondering how on earth this author got

a
book
contract...and whether or not the editor actually read past page three
before
sending it off to the freelance copy editor...

Out of curiosity, do you do most of your editing using Track Changes,

or
are
you still on pencil and paper too? (The reason all of this has come

up
for
me is that one client is interested in making the switch. I've never
worked
on a huge project using Track Changes, so it'll be a new experience

for
me.)


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I'm sorry, but you are describing exactly the kind of work I do, and

I
can't
see that a client would have any reason to care *when* you make the
changes
provided the required changes get made. I make numerous passes

through
the
documents I work on, and I find more mistakes every time. No one can

see
everything at once, and I don't think anyone expects you to. Most
instructions I've read actually stipulate that you make several

passes.
And
I have to say that I read a lot of published books where there is no
evidence that any editor made even one pass, much less several. I
recently
proofread the page proofs of a book to be published by Random House
(which
had been copyedited and proofread by their editors), and the author

(for
whom I was performing the work) and I were equally appalled by the
number of
errors I found. I wouldn't care how many times the editor had to

read
the ms
or backtrack in it provided the errors were corrected.

FWIW, it's also true that the more corrections there are to be made,

the
more passes it's going to take. You just can't see everything at

once.
And a
lot of things you aren't going to know are "errors" till much later.

In
the
book I'm currently working on, there are stupefyingly thorough bios

of
two
of the characters early on; neither mentions any military service

(or
allows
any space in the timeline for it). Several chapters later, they're
talking
about their army experiences in Iraq. Another character, a nurse, is

shy
on
one page and bold on the next (she actually vacillates throughout

the
book).
Those are just a few of the problems. As it happens, I've about

given up
on
this book, which the author is self-publishing; I finally decided

I'd
done
all I could reasonably do, and if the author thinks it's done, I'll

just
call it done. I don't think he'll sell more than a couple of dozen
copies no
matter how much we polish it, anyway. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in
message
...
Without giving actual examples, it's hard to give you an idea of

what
I
mean
here, so let's say that the author of a manuscript I'm editing

creates
a
character named Frank. He's Frank from page 1 to page 72, but on

page
73,
he
suddenly becomes Fred. Only I'm sort of distracted by the

author's
annoying
habit of putting three exclamation points at the end of every
sentence, so
I
don't notice that he's Fred until page 175. So now I go back to

page
73
(having searched for "Fred" and discovered that that was where the
name
first
appeared).

Anyone looking at my changes will be able to see that I made the
Fred/Frank
change three days (or however long it has been) after the other
changes --
deleting of exclamation points, suggestions about ambiguous

language,
grammar
corrections -- made on the same page. And while my imperfect eye

is
something I should be aware of (because being aware of it will

make me
a
better editor), it is NOT something I need to show my clients...or
that,
really, they have any need to know.

Does that make it any clearer why this is so important to me?

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed your
mind:
just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and

change
it
back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote

in
message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer
versions of
Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon turns

up
the
name
of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the date

and
time
the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the

privacy
option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save" and
have my
name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I cannot

opt
to
remove

  #10  
Old June 16th 06, 05:04 AM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Track Changes Privacy Suggestion -- Make Date/Time Stamp Optio

Deliver me from persnickety authors! I generally avoid "creative" writers;
most of the books I work on are either nonfiction or for clients with whom I
have a longtime established relationship, so that they trust my judgment.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in message
...
Ah, yes, I have a very similar system...though I've just spent this

evening
trying to pare my comments down to the basics, since apparently this

author
is kind of persnickety about her work. Hence the careful wording of
Post-its, too (I'm definitely keeping THAT company in business, the way I

go
through them)...

This one gets packed up tomorrow; then on to the next one!

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

Green works well for me because a lot of my authors make *their*

corrections
in red or blue. I tend to make my "changes not to be argued with" in the
text, with an explanation (if I feel it's needed) in the margin. I use
Post-its for "suggested" changes or queries. But the more I use

computers,
the harder it becomes for me to write much by hand (especially legibly),

and
I often go through several Post-its before I get the desired wording on

a
"suggestion." That's why a separate file of comments can be helpful,
especially since you can make comments about "passim" sorts of problems,
referencing page numbers of numerous occurrences of the same issue or
drawing attention to conflicts between statements in two locations

(whereas
in the ms you'd have to write, "Detroit? Cf. p. x" and "Mobile? Cf. p.

x.").

I recently worked on a novel by a well-known and highly acclaimed

novelist.
I was typing the ms and wasn't supposed to make any changes at all, but
aside from numerous routine corrections (for which I was predictably
blasted, and they may well all be reversed), I submitted a separate
eight-page file of comments on conflicts, solecisms, awkward phrasing,

etc.
I'll be interested to see what gets published. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
Wow, I never knew that about the color red! I like green, but worry

that
it
wouldn't show up all that well...and people seem to be pretty used to

my
red
by now. A copy chief I worked for once had a great system I'd love to
emulate someday: red pencil for changes not to be argued with

(serious
grammatical or punctuation issues, malapropisms, etc.) and blue for
suggestions. Of course, she worked at a magazine where everyone had

been
trained to know what the colors meant -- as a freelancer, I'd have to

attach
an explanation to every returned manuscript!

I still like my pencils and Post-its, I have to say...and while I do

get
the
same urge you do to just go into the file and correct it, it's an

itchy
trigger finger I feel I am duty-bound to resist! Track Changes would
probably keep me from making a lot of the comments I make now, simply

because
it's more of a process...and because I hate the look of a marked-up

document!
Though maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I fiddled with the color

choices...

Anyway, thanks for the commiseration and for the advice. Good luck

with
Mobile...I mean Detroit...I mean Chicago...

:-)

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I forgot to mention that the two aforementioned characters were

gangsters
from Detroit for half the book, then from Mobile for another half;

then,
because of problems with both, we decided to make them be from

Chicago,
but
the author still keeps sending me stuff that says "Mobile." sigh

As for markup, I do sort of a combination. I don't use red pencil,

by
the
way, but green pen. In a previous life, I was a teacher (Latin), and

I
know
that people react adversely to red (one student said it looked like

her
paper was hemorrhaging), and actually green (pencil) is traditional

for
editing. I do still mark up copy by hand sometimes, but the more I

use
computers, the more I find I keep itching to get to the file and

correct
it
directly. In most cases, the result is what the client is concerned

about,
not how it was achieved, so I just make the changes, and they read

the
revised edition and (if I've done it right) think, "Wow! I'm a

better
writer
than I realized." I used to write a lot of comments on the

manuscript,
either directly on it or on Post-its, but now I often make a

separate
comments file. I don't really like Track Changes because most of the

people
I work with are unsophisticated (many of them elderly) and wouldn't

know
how
to deal with the technology (even for comments). So far I've had no

one
specifically request it, and I don't suggest it.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote in

message
...
OK, now you've succeeded in really making me laugh...first because

you
DO
know exactly what I'm talking about, and second because I am so

glad
the
manuscript I'm working on isn't in THAT much trouble! You would

have
been
amused by the stunned look on my face the first time a production

editor
said
to me, "Well, actually, by the time it comes to you, the editor is
finished
with it." Meanwhile there I am wondering how on earth this author

got
a
book
contract...and whether or not the editor actually read past page

three
before
sending it off to the freelance copy editor...

Out of curiosity, do you do most of your editing using Track

Changes,
or
are
you still on pencil and paper too? (The reason all of this has

come
up
for
me is that one client is interested in making the switch. I've

never
worked
on a huge project using Track Changes, so it'll be a new

experience
for
me.)


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I'm sorry, but you are describing exactly the kind of work I do,

and
I
can't
see that a client would have any reason to care *when* you make

the
changes
provided the required changes get made. I make numerous passes

through
the
documents I work on, and I find more mistakes every time. No one

can
see
everything at once, and I don't think anyone expects you to.

Most
instructions I've read actually stipulate that you make several

passes.
And
I have to say that I read a lot of published books where there

is no
evidence that any editor made even one pass, much less several.

I
recently
proofread the page proofs of a book to be published by Random

House
(which
had been copyedited and proofread by their editors), and the

author
(for
whom I was performing the work) and I were equally appalled by

the
number of
errors I found. I wouldn't care how many times the editor had to

read
the ms
or backtrack in it provided the errors were corrected.

FWIW, it's also true that the more corrections there are to be

made,
the
more passes it's going to take. You just can't see everything at

once.
And a
lot of things you aren't going to know are "errors" till much

later.
In
the
book I'm currently working on, there are stupefyingly thorough

bios
of
two
of the characters early on; neither mentions any military

service
(or
allows
any space in the timeline for it). Several chapters later,

they're
talking
about their army experiences in Iraq. Another character, a

nurse, is
shy
on
one page and bold on the next (she actually vacillates

throughout
the
book).
Those are just a few of the problems. As it happens, I've about

given up
on
this book, which the author is self-publishing; I finally

decided
I'd
done
all I could reasonably do, and if the author thinks it's done,

I'll
just
call it done. I don't think he'll sell more than a couple of

dozen
copies no
matter how much we polish it, anyway. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl" wrote

in
message
...
Without giving actual examples, it's hard to give you an idea

of
what
I
mean
here, so let's say that the author of a manuscript I'm editing

creates
a
character named Frank. He's Frank from page 1 to page 72, but

on
page
73,
he
suddenly becomes Fred. Only I'm sort of distracted by the

author's
annoying
habit of putting three exclamation points at the end of every
sentence, so
I
don't notice that he's Fred until page 175. So now I go back

to
page
73
(having searched for "Fred" and discovered that that was where

the
name
first
appeared).

Anyone looking at my changes will be able to see that I made

the
Fred/Frank
change three days (or however long it has been) after the

other
changes --
deleting of exclamation points, suggestions about ambiguous

language,
grammar
corrections -- made on the same page. And while my imperfect

eye
is
something I should be aware of (because being aware of it will

make me
a
better editor), it is NOT something I need to show my

clients...or
that,
really, they have any need to know.

Does that make it any clearer why this is so important to me?

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

FWIW, your clients don't have to know when you have changed

your
mind:
just
reject the change. Or accept it, turn Track Changes off and

change
it
back,
then turn Track Changes on again.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to

the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"redpencilgirl"

wrote
in
message
...
In Word 2002 for Windows XP (and apparently in other newer
versions of
Word
as well), rolling the mouse over a Track Changes balloon

turns
up
the
name
of
the person who made the change or comment, along with the

date
and
time
the
change or comment was made. Currently I can choose the

privacy
option
"Remove personal information from file properties on save"

and
have my
name
replaced with the anonymous term "author" -- however, I

cannot
opt
to
remove


 




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