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take yet another lesson from wordperfect "reveal codes"



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 30th 05, 06:30 PM
wordperfect is superior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default take yet another lesson from wordperfect "reveal codes"


I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find
myself forced to use it.

I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function.
Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on
what I am typing.

Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on
interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them.

It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever
someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce an
outline.

Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse?

Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give us
the power to see it and delete it.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t
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  #2  
Old September 30th 05, 07:01 PM
Herb Tyson [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Word and WordPerfect represent two different philosophies. I tried, but
never could get used to what seemed to me to be illogical procedures/methods
in WordPerfect. Clearly, you see things entirely the reverse from how I see
them.

Word does have a "reveal codes" feature. But, it doesn't work like WP's. It
can't. Why? Because Word doesn't use codes. WordPerfect treats the document
as a stream from beginning to end. Hence, codes make sense.

Word uses an object approach: characters, words, lines, sentences,
paragraphs, sections, graphics, documents... each are different types of
objects. You don't format HTML-style (at least not in Word versions 1
through 11) by bracketing text with start/stop codes. Instead, you select an
object and format it. If you have a recent version of Word, choose Format -
Reveal Formatting from the menu to see what formatting is applied to the
current selection.

As for automatic stuff... lots of folks agree with you. And, that's why much
of what you talk about is optional and can be turned on or off. Choose
Tools - AutoCorrect Options. In the AutoCorrect tab, you'll see one set of
automatic stuff that can be turned off. In the AutoFormat as You Type tab,
you'll find another set. This includes things like Automatic Numbered Lists,
which is one of the features that produces the phantom tabs that don't
really exist, and hence are impervious to the mouse. Turn the automatic
stuff off and you can create your own numbered lists using tabs that respond
to the mouse, delete, etc.

If you have to use Word, then invest some time into learning it. It's not
the same as WordPerfect. So, don't expect it to be--that's inviting
frustration. But, for professional writers, there is much to like about
Word. It's just a matter of investing some effort into learning how to make
it work for you, rather than you and it fighting every step of the way. ;-)

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
http://www.herbtyson.com
"wordperfect is superior" wordperfect is
wrote in message
news

I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find
myself forced to use it.

I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function.
Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on
what I am typing.

Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on
interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them.

It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever
someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce
an
outline.

Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse?

Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give
us
the power to see it and delete it.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t


  #3  
Old September 30th 05, 07:52 PM
Charles Kenyon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You are right, Word Perfect is better at some things than is Word, the
converse is also true.

Reveal codes would _not_ work in Word because Word does not use codes the
way Word Perfect does. Rather, it styles and containers. See
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm Word Perfect
essentially sends a list of instructions to the printer with formatting
codes such as "Turn Bold On" ... text ... "Turn Bold Off." Word simply does
not do this, or at least doesn't set up its documents as a series of printer
instructions.

Here is some general info on moving from Word Perfect to Word:

Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another. Each program's
methods have strengths and weaknesses; but, if you try to use one of these
programs as if it were the other, it is like pushing on a string! You can
easily make a lot of extra work for yourself. If you are unwilling to take
the time to learn to use Word's methods, you should stick to using Word Pad.
You'll have a lot less grief, although you'll miss out on a lot of raw
power. In the (short) long term spending the time to learn Word will save
you time if you are spending any time at all (more than an hour a day) using
Word.

See http://www.addbalance.com/word/wordperfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...ordPerfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...AndGotchas.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...Converters.htm
http://businesssoft.about.com/comput.../blconvert.htm
for information on Word for Word Perfect users.

For mo
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart2.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart1.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Number...gExplained.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...latesStore.htm


Function Keys

In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a
special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like
pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this.
Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys()
Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True
End Sub

Word's Extend key (F8) gives something similar to block processing.


Formatting and Styles

Learn about Styles - really learn!
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm I resisted for years and now
regret every day of those years because although that string was still very
hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important
projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word concept of
organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into place and instead
of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on the very powerful
text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it will start doing your
work for you instead of running around behind you trying to undo what you
just thought you did.


Converting documents Word / Word Perfect

Some special characters in Word Perfect documents don't convert well to
Word. There is a macro to assist with this described at
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/...html#macroword and can be found
at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/WPSymbolConv.bas.
This was prepared by Edward Mendelson.
Otherwise, look at the macro from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=212396
Use these on _copies_!

As for converting documents from Word Perfect to _use_ in Word... In a word,
don't plan on it. I would not recommend using converted documents long-term.
They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you at the worst
time. This is especially true of any documents containing automatic
numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word using the
following process:
In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as
text files.
Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your
formatting to look.
Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save
this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using
styles, not direct formatting. Save it again.
To use a template within Word, use File = New and pick your template. This
will create a new document for you.

Merge documents have special problems and should be recreated from text
files or retyped in Word. To convert data files, consider generating labels
in WP as a document, converting that to Word, and then using
http://www.gmayor.com/convert_labels...mail_merge.htm to get a new Word
data file.

Note that conversions usually do create documents that look passable and
print OK; the problems I'm referring to have to do with editing / making
changes, that is, using the documents long-term. (See below on reusing
documents vs. using templates.)

Conversion back to Word Perfect: There is a problem (in addition to the ones
mentioned for conversion _to_ Word) with Version 2002 (XP) and later of
Word. The conversion file only works for conversion _to_ Word, not from Word
to Word Perfect! Earlier versions went both ways. To fix this, you need to
find the old conversion file WPFT532.CNV from a Word 97 or Word 2000
installation and copy it to your new installation, replacing the file of the
same name. Note, the change making the file one-way was done as a security
measure. While I don't know of any problems the old file causes, keep the
new installation's file somewhere as a backup just in case.


Boilerplate and Forms

In WP a lot of people use macros to hold chunks of text - boilerplate. In
Word this function is filled by Templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect, not
macros. Follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebre...s.htm#AutoText for more
information on these tools.

You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For more
about online forms, follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#Forms or
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...nTheBlanks.htm especially Dian
Chapman's series of articles. You may also want to look at
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFl...nesInForms.htm.


Reusing Documents vs. Using templates

General practice in WP is to have a document and copy and edit it to create
a new document. This is not good practice in Word. In Word, construct a
good, tight, template for your documents and use that template when
constructing new documents. Among other things, this can avoid embarrassing
"metadata" (http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/metadata.htm) and things
like surprise headers and footers from creeping into new documents.

It's a lot of reading, I know. It's OK to chunk it down and do a bit each
day, but I would recommend that you make it a top priority to do that bit
each day. In the (short) long run, it will save you both time and grief.
--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/word which is awesome!
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"wordperfect is superior" wordperfect is
wrote in message
news

I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find
myself forced to use it.

I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function.
Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on
what I am typing.

Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on
interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them.

It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever
someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce
an
outline.

Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse?

Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give
us
the power to see it and delete it.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t


  #4  
Old October 1st 05, 10:56 PM
Orrie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm usually not much of a diplomat, but I agree with everyone in this
discussion. I'm a professional writer, and would not use Word if my clients
did not require it, either explicitly or tacitly. After 10 years of working
with Word (currently Word 2003), I still find cause to miss WordPerfect a
few times a day. Lists, tables, equations, foreign words and phrases, not to
mention tabs, indents and text boxes are so much easier and more stable in
WP.

On the other hand, the operative fact of life in this situation is that I
must use Word or give up most of my client base. So I have learned to work
with Word, and have found groups like this invaluable in helping me solve
any problems that come up. Sometimes, Word being what it is, they can't be
solved. Then I understand it is up to me to find a way within Word to
accomplish what I need to do to keep working.

The most valuable feature of Word for me is Track Revisions and Comments,
which is essential for working collaboratively. I'm sure that recent
versions of WordPerfect have similar capabilities, but I no longer keep up
with the development of WP.

Orrie


"Charles Kenyon" wrote in
message ...
You are right, Word Perfect is better at some things than is Word, the
converse is also true.

Reveal codes would _not_ work in Word because Word does not use codes the
way Word Perfect does. Rather, it styles and containers. See
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm Word Perfect
essentially sends a list of instructions to the printer with formatting
codes such as "Turn Bold On" ... text ... "Turn Bold Off." Word simply
does not do this, or at least doesn't set up its documents as a series of
printer instructions.

Here is some general info on moving from Word Perfect to Word:

Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another. Each
program's methods have strengths and weaknesses; but, if you try to use
one of these programs as if it were the other, it is like pushing on a
string! You can easily make a lot of extra work for yourself. If you are
unwilling to take the time to learn to use Word's methods, you should
stick to using Word Pad. You'll have a lot less grief, although you'll
miss out on a lot of raw power. In the (short) long term spending the time
to learn Word will save you time if you are spending any time at all (more
than an hour a day) using Word.

See http://www.addbalance.com/word/wordperfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...ordPerfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...AndGotchas.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...Converters.htm
http://businesssoft.about.com/comput.../blconvert.htm
for information on Word for Word Perfect users.

For mo
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart2.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart1.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Number...gExplained.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...latesStore.htm


Function Keys

In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a
special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like
pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this.
Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys()
Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True
End Sub

Word's Extend key (F8) gives something similar to block processing.


Formatting and Styles

Learn about Styles - really learn!
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm I resisted for years and
now regret every day of those years because although that string was still
very hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very
important projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word
concept of organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into
place and instead of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on
the very powerful text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it
will start doing your work for you instead of running around behind you
trying to undo what you just thought you did.


Converting documents Word / Word Perfect

Some special characters in Word Perfect documents don't convert well to
Word. There is a macro to assist with this described at
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/...html#macroword and can be
found at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/WPSymbolConv.bas.
This was prepared by Edward Mendelson.
Otherwise, look at the macro from
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=212396
Use these on _copies_!

As for converting documents from Word Perfect to _use_ in Word... In a
word, don't plan on it. I would not recommend using converted documents
long-term. They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you
at the worst time. This is especially true of any documents containing
automatic numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word
using the following process:
In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as
text files.
Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your
formatting to look.
Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save
this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using
styles, not direct formatting. Save it again.
To use a template within Word, use File = New and pick your template.
This will create a new document for you.

Merge documents have special problems and should be recreated from text
files or retyped in Word. To convert data files, consider generating
labels in WP as a document, converting that to Word, and then using
http://www.gmayor.com/convert_labels...mail_merge.htm to get a new Word
data file.

Note that conversions usually do create documents that look passable and
print OK; the problems I'm referring to have to do with editing / making
changes, that is, using the documents long-term. (See below on reusing
documents vs. using templates.)

Conversion back to Word Perfect: There is a problem (in addition to the
ones mentioned for conversion _to_ Word) with Version 2002 (XP) and later
of Word. The conversion file only works for conversion _to_ Word, not from
Word to Word Perfect! Earlier versions went both ways. To fix this, you
need to find the old conversion file WPFT532.CNV from a Word 97 or Word
2000 installation and copy it to your new installation, replacing the file
of the same name. Note, the change making the file one-way was done as a
security measure. While I don't know of any problems the old file causes,
keep the new installation's file somewhere as a backup just in case.


Boilerplate and Forms

In WP a lot of people use macros to hold chunks of text - boilerplate. In
Word this function is filled by Templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect, not
macros. Follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebre...s.htm#AutoText for more
information on these tools.

You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For more
about online forms, follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#Forms or
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...nTheBlanks.htm especially
Dian Chapman's series of articles. You may also want to look at
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFl...nesInForms.htm.


Reusing Documents vs. Using templates

General practice in WP is to have a document and copy and edit it to
create a new document. This is not good practice in Word. In Word,
construct a good, tight, template for your documents and use that template
when constructing new documents. Among other things, this can avoid
embarrassing "metadata"
(http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/metadata.htm) and things like
surprise headers and footers from creeping into new documents.

It's a lot of reading, I know. It's OK to chunk it down and do a bit each
day, but I would recommend that you make it a top priority to do that bit
each day. In the (short) long run, it will save you both time and grief.
--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/word which is awesome!
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"wordperfect is superior" wordperfect is
wrote in message
news

I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find
myself forced to use it.

I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function.
Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating
on
what I am typing.

Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on
interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them.

It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever
someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce
an
outline.

Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse?

Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give
us
the power to see it and delete it.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
"I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t





  #5  
Old October 6th 05, 06:18 AM
Suzanne S. Barnhill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Charles has already pointed you to
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm. You might also want
to see http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/TameAutoFormat.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"wordperfect is superior" wordperfect is
wrote in message
news

I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find
myself forced to use it.

I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function.
Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on
what I am typing.

Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on
interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them.

It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever
someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce

an
outline.

Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse?

Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give

us
the power to see it and delete it.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow

this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t

  #6  
Old May 11th 09, 07:58 PM posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
GMofUSA-PO[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default take yet another lesson from wordperfect "reveal codes"

I’ve read the articles; I’ve read most the comments for this subject matter.
I am very frustrated and agree in general with pro-Wordperfect communications!

I commonly receive word documents that are pre-formatted (Pre-designed style
templates from word) that often contain cell errors! Example: The format in
one cell is varied from the balance.

I now understand the reason reveal formatting in Word 07 is worthless in
correcting what seemed to be simple flaws. I made the mistake of attempting
to correct an error in a time sensitive document this AM and here I am
posting this comment because of such.

Thank goodness I have a secretary that can take the “TIME” to correct the
changes, by redoing the documents from scratch!

I have ordered my divisions IT department to pilot a add on suggestion by
Dian D. Chapman, Technical Consultant – Microsoft MVP, MOS Certified, in
hopes this reveal formatting feature will be enhanced to save time and
energy. For this I/we thank you, Mrs. Chapman in advance.

Regards,
General Manager of US Corporate Services


"wordperfect is superior" wrote:


I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find
myself forced to use it.

I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function.
Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on
what I am typing.

Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on
interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them.

It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever
someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce an
outline.

Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse?

Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give us
the power to see it and delete it.



----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t

 




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