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#1
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Why are outline numbered list limited to 9 levels?
Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list?
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#2
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No.
-- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" F. James wrote in message ... Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#3
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Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of
Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#4
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Graham,
I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#5
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Hello James-
I fully appreciate the points made here, but perhaps Word is not the best tool for your complex needs. I am not familiar with an equivalent on the Windows platform, but if you have access to Macs you may want to take a look at a program called OmniOutliner Professional. Unlimited Levels is just one of several features that might be of interest to you... Especially if you need presentation output. If it is of interest you can look he http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnioutliner/ HTH |:) "F. James Little" wrote: Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#6
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Taz,
Thanks for the suggestion. If I had a Mac available to me, that would probably be a pretty good option. Unfortunately, I'm working in an MS shop, and MS Word is the only word processing/document publication software we have available to us. The frustration is that I know that this is functionality that at least at one time was available. (I was doing this same sort of thing back in 1998/99 on the prevailing version of MS Word at that time.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "CyberTaz" wrote: Hello James- I fully appreciate the points made here, but perhaps Word is not the best tool for your complex needs. I am not familiar with an equivalent on the Windows platform, but if you have access to Macs you may want to take a look at a program called OmniOutliner Professional. Unlimited Levels is just one of several features that might be of interest to you... Especially if you need presentation output. If it is of interest you can look he http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnioutliner/ HTH |:) "F. James Little" wrote: Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#7
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You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there
is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#8
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I fully appreciate the points made here, but perhaps Word is not the best
tool for your complex needs. Because it's not designed to appeal to a narrow and specialized market, almost by definition. You might want to present the view to your bosses that you are doing something very particular and being limited to mass-market software is making your job more difficult. Anyhow, a reply to one of your multi-posts pointed you he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...ering/msg/d6ba 1d023c888b81?dmode=source- Which gives a workaround for 18 levels, and possibly offers a way to work out more. Multi-post, by the way, means to post separately messages to several groups, making it difficult to go back and find the answers, and raising the chances that people will waste their time giving you answers you've already received elsewhere. It's considered rude in newsgroups, plus it's inefficient. DM Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#9
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Actually, the two posting were, in this case, an accident. I posted my
question to the General group, not realizing that there was a more specific group targeted on the topic of my question. As it turns out, virtually no one addressed the issue on the more focused newsgroup, but rather has addressed themselves more to the 'General' question. This seems counter-intuitive to me, but in this case I am glad that fate served to have place the question in both groups as the feedback has been helpful. As to the Mass Market issue, I'm afraid that I cannot concede your point. The functionality we are discussing is functionality which previously existed, and has been lost. In any case, it is the role of developers to provide as much functionality as possible within an application as is possible within the limits of resources and practicality. If there is a literary resource that authoritatively dictates that an outline should be no more than 9 levels deep, then please cite it. Otherwise, I would consider that limit to be whatever limit had been available in previous versions of Word. The fact that this specific application of a numbered outline was focused on one particular and unique requirement does nothing to mitigate the argument that there are no doubt many other 'mass market' applications of numbered outlines that would require the ability to go beyond 9 levels. The purpose of software is to enable users, not limit them. I would also like to express my appreciation to the newsgroup police who, while having nothing useful to contribute toward actually solving this issue, were nonetheless diligent in pointing out my transgressions. I apologize most profusely to all those who were so deeply offended and shall have my meal card stamped €œNo Dessert€ immediately. Thanks! F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Daiya Mitchell" wrote: I fully appreciate the points made here, but perhaps Word is not the best tool for your complex needs. Because it's not designed to appeal to a narrow and specialized market, almost by definition. You might want to present the view to your bosses that you are doing something very particular and being limited to mass-market software is making your job more difficult. Anyhow, a reply to one of your multi-posts pointed you he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...ering/msg/d6ba 1d023c888b81?dmode=source- Which gives a workaround for 18 levels, and possibly offers a way to work out more. Multi-post, by the way, means to post separately messages to several groups, making it difficult to go back and find the answers, and raising the chances that people will waste their time giving you answers you've already received elsewhere. It's considered rude in newsgroups, plus it's inefficient. DM Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#10
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Suzanne,
Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#11
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As to the Mass Market issue, I'm afraid that I cannot concede your point.
Well, we're really each making separate points, I think. Yours is about programming, mine is about profit. In any case, it is the role of developers to provide as much functionality as possible within an application Sure, agreed. as is possible within the limits of resources and practicality. And the people in charge of the developers presumably figured that more than 9 levels would not be a profitable use of resources, and told developers to spend time on something else. MS's bottom line is profit. This doesn't annoy enough people for them to consider it profitable to implement/keep implementing, I imagine. If you really want a "why", that's basically what it boils down to. You can post "more outline levels" as a newsgroup Suggestion though, and perhaps other people will come along and vote for it, and then perhaps MS will consider it a worthwhile feature if it gets enough votes. You would need to post it as a Suggestion through the MS web interface though, those are the only posts that might have a chance of getting read. Then send your entire workgroup the link to vote for it, perhaps? snip I would also like to express my appreciation to the newsgroup police who, while having nothing useful to contribute toward actually solving this issue, were nonetheless diligent in pointing out my transgressions. I apologize most profusely to all those who were so deeply offended and shall have my meal card stamped ³No Dessert² immediately. I can't imagine who qualified as newsgroup police other than me, so I apologize for trying to point you towards a reply you apparently hadn't seen several hours after it was posted and for trying to explain to someone who didn't seem to know how newsgroups work. Sorry you didn't find either of those useful. DM Thanks! F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Daiya Mitchell" wrote: I fully appreciate the points made here, but perhaps Word is not the best tool for your complex needs. Because it's not designed to appeal to a narrow and specialized market, almost by definition. You might want to present the view to your bosses that you are doing something very particular and being limited to mass-market software is making your job more difficult. Anyhow, a reply to one of your multi-posts pointed you he http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...ering/msg/d6ba 1d023c888b81?dmode=source- Which gives a workaround for 18 levels, and possibly offers a way to work out more. Multi-post, by the way, means to post separately messages to several groups, making it difficult to go back and find the answers, and raising the chances that people will waste their time giving you answers you've already received elsewhere. It's considered rude in newsgroups, plus it's inefficient. DM Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the .numbering NG. The
regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#13
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Suzanne,
I strongly believe that Microsoft should come out with an update to fix this. At Boeing we must write Performance Specifications all the time and to not have more than 9 levels is impossible to create a spec. Often times are specs go as deep at 12-13 levels. I rely on the custom numbering schemes when writing a spec and not having this feature limits my use of Microsoft Word. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the reasoning for not making this list larger. Thanks, J "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the .numbering NG. The regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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I'm guessing that the need for more than 9 levels is rare. Most users seldom
need more than 4 or 5 levels, as most. Note that Word's built-in Heading levels go only from 1 to 9 as well. That said, almost anything is possible in Word if one is willing to invest the time/money to setting it up. If your company routinely needs 12-13 numbering levels, and if they're committed to staying with Word, it would make sense to develop templates that do this for you -- including styles, tools and macros to make it transparent to the user. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. http://www.herbtyson.com "J. Knoernschild" wrote in message ... Suzanne, I strongly believe that Microsoft should come out with an update to fix this. At Boeing we must write Performance Specifications all the time and to not have more than 9 levels is impossible to create a spec. Often times are specs go as deep at 12-13 levels. I rely on the custom numbering schemes when writing a spec and not having this feature limits my use of Microsoft Word. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the reasoning for not making this list larger. Thanks, J "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the .numbering NG. The regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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Two things - one, isn't it Microsoft's responsability to include this
available option as they need to appeal to many users - and not just limit a feature because only 60,000 people might need it out of 2 million. Second, how can you customize styles or templates for automatic outlined numbering greater than 10 when word is limited to 9? "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: I'm guessing that the need for more than 9 levels is rare. Most users seldom need more than 4 or 5 levels, as most. Note that Word's built-in Heading levels go only from 1 to 9 as well. That said, almost anything is possible in Word if one is willing to invest the time/money to setting it up. If your company routinely needs 12-13 numbering levels, and if they're committed to staying with Word, it would make sense to develop templates that do this for you -- including styles, tools and macros to make it transparent to the user. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. http://www.herbtyson.com "J. Knoernschild" wrote in message ... Suzanne, I strongly believe that Microsoft should come out with an update to fix this. At Boeing we must write Performance Specifications all the time and to not have more than 9 levels is impossible to create a spec. Often times are specs go as deep at 12-13 levels. I rely on the custom numbering schemes when writing a spec and not having this feature limits my use of Microsoft Word. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the reasoning for not making this list larger. Thanks, J "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the .numbering NG. The regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#16
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Why are outline numbered list limited to 9 levels?
Just another voice in the noise of the crowd: I could definitely use more
levels - stopping at nine (9) is quite limiting for Bill-of-Materials work and other logical listing purposes. "J. Knoernschild" wrote: Two things - one, isn't it Microsoft's responsability to include this available option as they need to appeal to many users - and not just limit a feature because only 60,000 people might need it out of 2 million. Second, how can you customize styles or templates for automatic outlined numbering greater than 10 when word is limited to 9? "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: I'm guessing that the need for more than 9 levels is rare. Most users seldom need more than 4 or 5 levels, as most. Note that Word's built-in Heading levels go only from 1 to 9 as well. That said, almost anything is possible in Word if one is willing to invest the time/money to setting it up. If your company routinely needs 12-13 numbering levels, and if they're committed to staying with Word, it would make sense to develop templates that do this for you -- including styles, tools and macros to make it transparent to the user. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. http://www.herbtyson.com "J. Knoernschild" wrote in message ... Suzanne, I strongly believe that Microsoft should come out with an update to fix this. At Boeing we must write Performance Specifications all the time and to not have more than 9 levels is impossible to create a spec. Often times are specs go as deep at 12-13 levels. I rely on the custom numbering schemes when writing a spec and not having this feature limits my use of Microsoft Word. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the reasoning for not making this list larger. Thanks, J "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the .numbering NG. The regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#18
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Why are outline numbered list limited to 9 levels?
Caveat lector! This is functionality to make life easier for *writers*.
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... You need more than nine levels of numbering in a single list? Gack! I wouldn't want to be the one who was trying to figure out the 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 level of subheadings. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "Jim Perullo" Jim wrote in message news  Just another voice in the noise of the crowd: I could definitely use more levels - stopping at nine (9) is quite limiting for Bill-of-Materials work and other logical listing purposes. "J. Knoernschild" wrote: Two things - one, isn't it Microsoft's responsability to include this available option as they need to appeal to many users - and not just limit a feature because only 60,000 people might need it out of 2 million. Second, how can you customize styles or templates for automatic outlined numbering greater than 10 when word is limited to 9? "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: I'm guessing that the need for more than 9 levels is rare. Most users seldom need more than 4 or 5 levels, as most. Note that Word's built-in Heading levels go only from 1 to 9 as well. That said, almost anything is possible in Word if one is willing to invest the time/money to setting it up. If your company routinely needs 12-13 numbering levels, and if they're committed to staying with Word, it would make sense to develop templates that do this for you -- including styles, tools and macros to make it transparent to the user. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. http://www.herbtyson.com "J. Knoernschild" wrote in message ... Suzanne, I strongly believe that Microsoft should come out with an update to fix this. At Boeing we must write Performance Specifications all the time and to not have more than 9 levels is impossible to create a spec. Often times are specs go as deep at 12-13 levels. I rely on the custom numbering schemes when writing a spec and not having this feature limits my use of Microsoft Word. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the reasoning for not making this list larger. Thanks, J "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the .numbering NG. The regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than 9 levels for a numbered outline list? Is it by accident, necessity (a resource or design limitation), or design (there is actually some literary authority out there that dictates the number of levels within a numbered outline shall be 9, and 9 shall be the number of levels within a numbered outline! 10 is right out!) (My apologies to Monty Python.) Thanks! F. James Little Sr Software Engineer "Graham Mayor" wrote: Outlines more than four levels are difficult to read and the province of Government documents. A document with more than 9 levels would be incomprehensible. What is your thinking here? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org F. James Little wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#19
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Why are outline numbered list limited to 9 levels?
Bruce Brown posted a workaround for this--it was previously linked on this
thread but may not be visible at present. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...ering/browse_f rm/thread/10cfb9ee4c92dd6c/65708796bfcb5bc6 Group: http://groups.google.com/group/micro...word.numbering Poster: Bruce Brown Subject: 18 levels of numbering without tears On 11/2/06 6:49 PM, "Jim Perullo" wrote: Just another voice in the noise of the crowd: I could definitely use more levels - stopping at nine (9) is quite limiting for Bill-of-Materials work and other logical listing purposes. "J. Knoernschild" wrote: Two things - one, isn't it Microsoft's responsability to include this available option as they need to appeal to many users - and not just limit a feature because only 60,000 people might need it out of 2 million. Second, how can you customize styles or templates for automatic outlined numbering greater than 10 when word is limited to 9? -- Daiya Mitchell, MVP Mac/Word Word FAQ: http://www.word.mvps.org/ MacWord Tips: http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html What's an MVP? A volunteer! Read the FAQ: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/ |
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#20
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Why are outline numbered list limited to 9 levels?
Too many list levels would be equally confusing for the writer, I believe. :-)
-- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Jezebel" wrote: Caveat lector! This is functionality to make life easier for *writers*. "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... You need more than nine levels of numbering in a single list? Gack! I wouldn't want to be the one who was trying to figure out the 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 level of subheadings. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "Jim Perullo" Jim wrote in message news Just another voice in the noise of the crowd: I could definitely use more levels - stopping at nine (9) is quite limiting for Bill-of-Materials work and other logical listing purposes. "J. Knoernschild" wrote: Two things - one, isn't it Microsoft's responsability to include this available option as they need to appeal to many users - and not just limit a feature because only 60,000 people might need it out of 2 million. Second, how can you customize styles or templates for automatic outlined numbering greater than 10 when word is limited to 9? "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: I'm guessing that the need for more than 9 levels is rare. Most users seldom need more than 4 or 5 levels, as most. Note that Word's built-in Heading levels go only from 1 to 9 as well. That said, almost anything is possible in Word if one is willing to invest the time/money to setting it up. If your company routinely needs 12-13 numbering levels, and if they're committed to staying with Word, it would make sense to develop templates that do this for you -- including styles, tools and macros to make it transparent to the user. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. http://www.herbtyson.com "J. Knoernschild" wrote in message ... Suzanne, I strongly believe that Microsoft should come out with an update to fix this. At Boeing we must write Performance Specifications all the time and to not have more than 9 levels is impossible to create a spec. Often times are specs go as deep at 12-13 levels. I rely on the custom numbering schemes when writing a spec and not having this feature limits my use of Microsoft Word. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the reasoning for not making this list larger. Thanks, J "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the .numbering NG. The regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than |
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#21
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Why are outline numbered list limited to 9 levels?
I'm always suspicious of people who say they need more than nine levels
because I've found so many of them that think they need Heading 1 for the first heading (at a given level), Heading 2 for the second, etc. It's a bit more difficult to believe, but some people will even set up outline numbering levels for simple lists, setting the numbering to start from 2 on Level 2, 3 on Level 3, etc. So I try to probe a bit to bring out any information that might confirm that this misconception is involved. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "Stefan Blom" wrote in message ... Too many list levels would be equally confusing for the writer, I believe. :-) -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Jezebel" wrote: Caveat lector! This is functionality to make life easier for *writers*. "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... You need more than nine levels of numbering in a single list? Gack! I wouldn't want to be the one who was trying to figure out the 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 level of subheadings. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "Jim Perullo" Jim wrote in message news
Just another voice in the noise of the crowd: I could definitely usemore levels - stopping at nine (9) is quite limiting for Bill-of-Materials work and other logical listing purposes. "J. Knoernschild" wrote: Two things - one, isn't it Microsoft's responsability to include this available option as they need to appeal to many users - and not just limit a feature because only 60,000 people might need it out of 2 million. Second, how can you customize styles or templates for automatic outlined numbering greater than 10 when word is limited to 9? "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: I'm guessing that the need for more than 9 levels is rare. Most users seldom need more than 4 or 5 levels, as most. Note that Word's built-in Heading levels go only from 1 to 9 as well. That said, almost anything is possible in Word if one is willing to invest the time/money to setting it up. If your company routinely needs 12-13 numbering levels, and if they're committed to staying with Word, it would make sense to develop templates that do this for you -- including styles, tools and macros to make it transparent to the user. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. http://www.herbtyson.com "J. Knoernschild" wrote in message ... Suzanne, I strongly believe that Microsoft should come out with an update to fix this. At Boeing we must write Performance Specifications all the time and to not have more than 9 levels is impossible to create a spec. Often times are specs go as deep at 12-13 levels. I rely on the custom numbering schemes when writing a spec and not having this feature limits my use of Microsoft Word. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the reasoning for not making this list larger. Thanks, J "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the ..numbering NG. The regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than |
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#22
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Why are outline numbered list limited to 9 levels?
Being suspicious is (sometimes) a good strategy, I suspect. g
-- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... I'm always suspicious of people who say they need more than nine levels because I've found so many of them that think they need Heading 1 for the first heading (at a given level), Heading 2 for the second, etc. It's a bit more difficult to believe, but some people will even set up outline numbering levels for simple lists, setting the numbering to start from 2 on Level 2, 3 on Level 3, etc. So I try to probe a bit to bring out any information that might confirm that this misconception is involved. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "Stefan Blom" wrote in message ... Too many list levels would be equally confusing for the writer, I believe. :-) -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Jezebel" wrote: Caveat lector! This is functionality to make life easier for *writers*. "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... You need more than nine levels of numbering in a single list? Gack! I wouldn't want to be the one who was trying to figure out the 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 level of subheadings. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "Jim Perullo" Jim wrote in message news
Just another voice in the noise of the crowd: I coulddefinitely use more levels - stopping at nine (9) is quite limiting for Bill-of-Materials work and other logical listing purposes. "J. Knoernschild" wrote: Two things - one, isn't it Microsoft's responsability to include this available option as they need to appeal to many users - and not just limit a feature because only 60,000 people might need it out of 2 million. Second, how can you customize styles or templates for automatic outlined numbering greater than 10 when word is limited to 9? "Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote: I'm guessing that the need for more than 9 levels is rare. Most users seldom need more than 4 or 5 levels, as most. Note that Word's built-in Heading levels go only from 1 to 9 as well. That said, almost anything is possible in Word if one is willing to invest the time/money to setting it up. If your company routinely needs 12-13 numbering levels, and if they're committed to staying with Word, it would make sense to develop templates that do this for you -- including styles, tools and macros to make it transparent to the user. -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. http://www.herbtyson.com "J. Knoernschild" wrote in message ... Suzanne, I strongly believe that Microsoft should come out with an update to fix this. At Boeing we must write Performance Specifications all the time and to not have more than 9 levels is impossible to create a spec. Often times are specs go as deep at 12-13 levels. I rely on the custom numbering schemes when writing a spec and not having this feature limits my use of Microsoft Word. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the reasoning for not making this list larger. Thanks, J "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Really the best place to pursue this inquiry is in the .numbering NG. The regulars who post there know far more about numbering than I ever will. I remain skeptical, however, that the functionality you're seeking was ever available in Word. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Suzanne, Thanks for the reply. I had actually thought of trying to nest the lists, but when I tried it, I was unable to get it to work... (I'm sure there is some trick to it.) When I tried, it would continue to treat the nested list as a continuation of the Parent list, and would not allow any further indentations to occur. A reply from Robert to this same question on the Word.Numbering forum contained a link which may have offered a solution to the nesting issue. If you know of a simple method using just the interface to nest list, I would love to hearit! Thanks again for your help. F. James Little Sr. Software Engineer "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: You can have as many level of indents and bullets as you like because there is no issue with restarting numbering after a certain level. You can apply any bullet you like to any style you like with any indent you like. You could even, I imagine, have multiple outline-numbered lists (nested), but you can't have more than nine levels within a given list. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "F. James Little" wrote in message ... Graham, I would have to disagree with you that an outline 9 0r more levels deep would be incomprehensible. I would think that it would be very much dependent upon the intent of the document and its intended document. In the particular case I am attempting to document the architecture of an object oriented software module by creating an outline of pseudopodia. (This to be accompanied by UML diagrams developed in Visio.) The logic of this particular module easily goes to more than 20 levels deep, and this is not a particularly complicated module. To an audience of fellow Software Engineers, I can assure you that the resulting pseudopodia outline would be completely comprehensible. In any case, I believe that setting the limit to 9 levels is somewhat arbitrary, and I believe that Microsoft should not place limits upon users within its applications unless there is a resource limitation or documented requirement to do so. Given how buggy the numbered outline seems to be in Word, perhaps it is in fact a resource limitation that forces the limit to be 9. It seems to me that earlier versions of the MS Word supported more, if not unlimited, levels when bullets and numbers could be set to multilevel prior to the advent of the specific numbered outline option. (The numbered outline may have been available in previous versions, but if it was it was not the default as it is today; the simple bulleted format was the default which could be customized to multiple levels.) If I am correct on the above, then this would seem to be a case of lost functionality. (A major, "your going to hell" sin in my industry.) In any case, if Word is not going to support more than 9 levels, why then does customization dialog present the level selection in a scrollable list control with all 9 levels visible in the list? The scrollbar is disabled because there is nothing to scroll to, but it is nonetheless there. If there was not the intent to support more levels, why then allow the scrollbar to be present al all! It is very confusing to the user in that it gives the impression that there may be a circumstance when the scroll bar may be active. (Believe me, I have spent the better part of a morning looking for just such a circumstance.) If the Microsoft Word development team did not intend there to ever be more than 9 levels, then it would have been a simple matter through code to prevent the listbox from displaying a vertical scroll bar! (I believe the vertical scrollbar is a holdover from previous versions where more than 9 levels were supported.) So, my question still stands... why does MS Word not support more than |
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#23
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Less than helpful, guys
I'd like to bring this up again and remind people that sometimes we ARE
working on Government documents. Not a big help to limit our level numbering. And it's actually pretty easy to understand when you realize your correspondence and or Requests for Additional Information have to refer to the specifications in Section 2.5.1.1.4.6.2.1.2.1. Or to the government regulations cited in that Section. It's actually really handy to have so many levels, and I honestly can't believe that they would limit such a thing when it'd probably be easier NOT to limit how many levels a user can create. Because our TOC only is required to show to four places, I will number these manually and hope that no one rearranges or deletes any Level 10 or Level 12 items. I've now wasted an HOUR on this problem. "F. James Little" wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#24
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Less than helpful, guys
Who is less than helpful? And why?
Don't make us waste an hour trying to figure it out. "That70sHeidi2" wrote in message ... : I'd like to bring this up again and remind people that sometimes we ARE : working on Government documents. Not a big help to limit our level numbering. : : And it's actually pretty easy to understand when you realize your : correspondence and or Requests for Additional Information have to refer to : the specifications in Section 2.5.1.1.4.6.2.1.2.1. Or to the government : regulations cited in that Section. It's actually really handy to have so many : levels, and I honestly can't believe that they would limit such a thing when : it'd probably be easier NOT to limit how many levels a user can create. : : Because our TOC only is required to show to four places, I will number these : manually and hope that no one rearranges or deletes any Level 10 or Level 12 : items. I've now wasted an HOUR on this problem. : : : : : "F. James Little" wrote: : : Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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#25
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Less than helpful, guys
The limit of nine no doubt goes back to some inbuilt programming limitations
(the same that limited the MRU list to nine documents). Although it might now be possible to program more than nine levels, the numbering might well not be backward-compatible. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "That70sHeidi2" wrote in message ... I'd like to bring this up again and remind people that sometimes we ARE working on Government documents. Not a big help to limit our level numbering. And it's actually pretty easy to understand when you realize your correspondence and or Requests for Additional Information have to refer to the specifications in Section 2.5.1.1.4.6.2.1.2.1. Or to the government regulations cited in that Section. It's actually really handy to have so many levels, and I honestly can't believe that they would limit such a thing when it'd probably be easier NOT to limit how many levels a user can create. Because our TOC only is required to show to four places, I will number these manually and hope that no one rearranges or deletes any Level 10 or Level 12 items. I've now wasted an HOUR on this problem. "F. James Little" wrote: Is there any way to add more levels to a outline numbered list? |
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