True. But, silly me, I could not find a group by that name or an address and
when I did a search on "printingfonts", "printing fonts" and even just
"fonts", I just got "Sorry, no results ..."

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I see you have not posted a question in microsoft.public.word.printingfonts
as I suggested.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Charlie''s Word VBA questions"
m wrote in message
...
I installed Word 97 as you indicated. However, when I opened a document,
the
same problems were still there. I have tried using the old fonts, the old
printer driver, various Word options and compatibility settings, and have
gotten nowhere. The only thing I know to do is go back and reformat every
paragraph, including very precise format settings for text in table cells
to
create formulas. Unfortunately, most of these documents are training
workbooks and have to deal with mainframe programming code which, for
example, requires that an instruction or line of code must be on a single
line. I also have a technical book where the publisher issues supplements
of
only changed pages, so I don't yet know how to handle this. I figure all
this will take me several weeks. I did have some minor formatting
problems
when I went from Word 6.0 to Word 97, but nothing like this.

I really appreciate all the ideas offered by you and others in this
discussion group.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I don't think the problem is as simple as lines being wider or narrower,
more that the way Word determines the spaces between words may have
changed,
or there may have been a change in the font metrics. But this is way
outside
my field of expertise. You might try asking in
microsoft.public.word.printingfonts.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Charlie''s Word VBA questions"
m wrote in message
...
Your response that there was a change in metrics finally makes some
sense
to
me. However, one thing I just can't get past is this. If Word's
metrics
make a line slightly wider, how can a word be moved UP to the
preceding
line.
This has really got me buggy. I have been working on several
documents
for
days and have a long way to go as this affects several dozen documents
of
anywhere from 22 to 650 pages.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

I suspect there really was a change in metrics somewhere along the
line.
I
don't remember whether it was between 97 and 2002 or earlier that I
saw
this, but I know that I had a complex lease form that, when opened
in a
newer version, was actually cutting text off at the edge. I forget
whether
the problem was with table cells that weren't quite wide enough any
more
or
right-aligned tab stops that had to be moved a hair in from the
margin
or
what, but it was very annoying.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Charlie''s Word VBA questions"
m wrote in
message
...
Thanks, Suzanne. Unfortunately, that didn't help.
Maybe it is helpful if I point out that (I'm rough estimating, not
counting)
about 60 % or so of the paragraphs are not a problem. This is
probably
because they are left justified and each line ends a sufficient
distance
from
the margin. I guess that about 30% or so of the paragraphs have
one
or
more
words that flow to the next line. Probably only 2 or 3% of the
paragraphs
have (usually) only one or two words that flow to the preceding
line
in
the
paragraph. This is rare.
Frankly, none of this makes any sense to me, since I verified that
the
font,
font size and margins did not change.
Is there any possibility that Word calculates space between words
or
from
the end of a line to the margin, even if the paragraph is
left-justified?
If
so, could their algorithms have changed? I'm really clutching at
straws,
I
know.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

You might also try selecting "Do full justification like
WordPerfect" in
Tools | Options | Compatibility. This usually compresses
justified
lines
a
bit.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Charlie''s Word VBA questions"
m wrote in
message
...
Thank you, Graham.
In fact, the old printer driver (HP) is installed on the XP
machine as
well
as a new (Canon) printer driver. I have switched back and
forth
between
printers, with "Use printer metrics" both On and Off. While I
could
sometimes see very minor differences in the display, that did
not
resolve
the
problem. And yet, a very small difference such as right
indenting
a
test
paragraph by -.05" solved the problem for that one paragraph.
I
guess
I
don't really understand how Word uses the printer to format
the
display
and
print.
I also tried to install the old Arial font after renaming it
"OldArial",
but
Windows was smart enough to prevent it. I also took a
snapshot of
a
test
paragraph on both machines and viewed them at 10x zoom. I
didn't
see
any
differences in the pixels for each letter nor for spacing
between
letters.
It was just a guess on my part.

"Graham Mayor" wrote:

This is nothing to do with any difference between the file
formats
of
Word
97 and Word 2003 (which are effectively the same) but with
the
fact
that
different printer drivers (and possibly different releases
of
the
font
files) were used to create the documents. Word formats
according
to
the
current printer driver. You would have to have the same
printer
driver
(and
I mean the driver not the printer) and font outlines
present as
when
you
created the document in Word 97. Adding Word 97 to your
current
installation
will not affect the issue.
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/TextReflow.htm

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Charlie''s Word VBA questions wrote:
Can I install Word 97 in Windows XP? I have Office 2003
with
Word
2003 already installed.
However, I have many 97 documents that, when opened on
2003,
line
spacing and text formatting is sufficiently changed to
cause
many,
many problems. These are student workbooks with font sizes
of
12
and
14 points. Words on a line flow to the next line causing
paragraph/page overflow. Sometimes a word actually fits
on
the
line
above. These documents contain a lot of formulas and
programming
code examples so formatting and spacing is very precise
and
critical.
Even text forming formulas and program code in a table may
overflow
resulting in misalignment of lines that must be precisely
aligned.
I
have tried every option I can think of including all
compatibility
options as Word 6.0, 97 and 2003, with printer metrics
turned
on
and
off. The only fixes I have come up with are doing things
like
reducing font size by .5 point, setting paragraph right
indent
by
even as little as negative .05 inches. But I would have
to do
this
line by line or paragraph by paragraph. I spent nearly a
week
just
finding (But not yet correcting) problems in ten
documents.
I am considering installing Word 97 to solve this problem
(although I
am not sure it will). What conflicts will I encounter?
Can I
keep

Suzanne gave you the full name of the newsgroup. Since you're
posting from Microsoft's web interface, go to
http://www.microsoft.com/communities...rintingfont s
..

Charlie''s Word VBA questions wrote:

True. But, silly me, I could not find a group by that name or an address and
when I did a search on "printingfonts", "printing fonts" and even just
"fonts", I just got "Sorry, no results ..."

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:


I see you have not posted a question in microsoft.public.word.printingfonts
as I suggested.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Charlie''s Word VBA questions"
. com wrote in message
...

I installed Word 97 as you indicated. However, when I opened a document,

the

same problems were still there. I have tried using the old fonts, the old
printer driver, various Word options and compatibility settings, and have
gotten nowhere. The only thing I know to do is go back and reformat every
paragraph, including very precise format settings for text in table cells

to

create formulas. Unfortunately, most of these documents are training
workbooks and have to deal with mainframe programming code which, for
example, requires that an instruction or line of code must be on a single
line. I also have a technical book where the publisher issues supplements

of

only changed pages, so I don't yet know how to handle this. I figure all
this will take me several weeks. I did have some minor formatting

problems

when I went from Word 6.0 to Word 97, but nothing like this.

I really appreciate all the ideas offered by you and others in this
discussion group.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:


I don't think the problem is as simple as lines being wider or narrower,
more that the way Word determines the spaces between words may have

changed,

or there may have been a change in the font metrics. But this is way

outside

my field of expertise. You might try asking in
microsoft.public.word.printingfonts.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so

all may benefit.

"Charlie''s Word VBA questions"
t.com wrote in message
...

Your response that there was a change in metrics finally makes some

sense

to

me. However, one thing I just can't get past is this. If Word's

metrics

make a line slightly wider, how can a word be moved UP to the

preceding

line.

This has really got me buggy. I have been working on several

documents

for

days and have a long way to go as this affects several dozen documents

of

anywhere from 22 to 650 pages.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:


I suspect there really was a change in metrics somewhere along the

line.

I

don't remember whether it was between 97 and 2002 or earlier that I

saw

this, but I know that I had a complex lease form that, when opened

in a

newer version, was actually cutting text off at the edge. I forget

whether

the problem was with table cells that weren't quite wide enough any

more

or

right-aligned tab stops that had to be moved a hair in from the

margin

or

what, but it was very annoying.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so

all may benefit.

"Charlie''s Word VBA questions"
oft.com wrote in

message

...

Thanks, Suzanne. Unfortunately, that didn't help.
Maybe it is helpful if I point out that (I'm rough estimating, not

counting)

about 60 % or so of the paragraphs are not a problem. This is

probably

because they are left justified and each line ends a sufficient

distance

from

the margin. I guess that about 30% or so of the paragraphs have

one

or

more

words that flow to the next line. Probably only 2 or 3% of the

paragraphs

have (usually) only one or two words that flow to the preceding

line

in

the

paragraph. This is rare.
Frankly, none of this makes any sense to me, since I verified that

the

font,

font size and margins did not change.
Is there any possibility that Word calculates space between words

or

from

the end of a line to the margin, even if the paragraph is

left-justified?

If

so, could their algorithms have changed? I'm really clutching at

straws,

I

know.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:


You might also try selecting "Do full justification like

WordPerfect" in

Tools | Options | Compatibility. This usually compresses

justified

lines

a

bit.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so

all may benefit.

"Charlie''s Word VBA questions"
osoft.com wrote in

message

...

Thank you, Graham.
In fact, the old printer driver (HP) is installed on the XP

machine as

well

as a new (Canon) printer driver. I have switched back and

forth

between

printers, with "Use printer metrics" both On and Off. While I

could

sometimes see very minor differences in the display, that did

not

resolve

the

problem. And yet, a very small difference such as right

indenting

a

test

paragraph by -.05" solved the problem for that one paragraph.

I

guess

I

don't really understand how Word uses the printer to format

the

display

and

print.
I also tried to install the old Arial font after renaming it

"OldArial",

but

Windows was smart enough to prevent it. I also took a

snapshot of

a

test

paragraph on both machines and viewed them at 10x zoom. I

didn't

see

any

differences in the pixels for each letter nor for spacing

between

letters.

It was just a guess on my part.

"Graham Mayor" wrote:


This is nothing to do with any difference between the file

formats

of

Word

97 and Word 2003 (which are effectively the same) but with

the

fact

that

different printer drivers (and possibly different releases

of

the

font

files) were used to create the documents. Word formats

according

to

the

current printer driver. You would have to have the same

printer

driver

(and

I mean the driver not the printer) and font outlines

present as

when

you

created the document in Word 97. Adding Word 97 to your

current

installation

will not affect the issue.
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/TextReflow.htm

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Charlie''s Word VBA questions wrote:

Can I install Word 97 in Windows XP? I have Office 2003

with

Word

2003 already installed.
However, I have many 97 documents that, when opened on

2003,

line

spacing and text formatting is sufficiently changed to

cause

many,

many problems. These are student workbooks with font sizes

of

12

and

14 points. Words on a line flow to the next line causing
paragraph/page overflow. Sometimes a word actually fits

on

the

line

above. These documents contain a lot of formulas and

programming

code examples so formatting and spacing is very precise

and

critical.

Even text forming formulas and program code in a table may

overflow

resulting in misalignment of lines that must be precisely

aligned.

I

have tried every option I can think of including all

compatibility

options as Word 6.0, 97 and 2003, with printer metrics

turned

on

and

off. The only fixes I have come up with are doing things

like

reducing font size by .5 point, setting paragraph right

indent

by

even as little as negative .05 inches. But I would have

to do

this

line by line or paragraph by paragraph. I spent nearly a

week

just

finding (But not yet correcting) problems in ten

documents.

I am considering installing Word 97 to solve this problem

(although I

am not sure it will). What conflicts will I encounter?

Can I

keep