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#1
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the
discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, -- WaterandTrees |
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#2
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
http://www.google.com/search?q=word+...x=&startPage=1
"Water and Trees" wrote in message ... In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, -- WaterandTrees |
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#3
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
There are two issues here - accessing the files and accessing the protected
documents. The first can be overcome by copying the discs to flash memory and then you can copy them to the hard drive to access them (DON'T access then from the flash memory). If you don't know the passwords to open the documents, the chances of opening them are slim to non-existent. The documents are encrypted and you need the password to break the encryption. - see http://www.gmayor.com/Remove_Password.htm -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Water and Trees wrote: In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, |
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#4
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored
along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Secondly, why do the disk files need to be copied to flash memory before being put on to a hard drive? And for that matter, why can't the files be opened from a flash drive? Thirdly, there are MANY tools out there that use different techniques to open a Word document that is password protected, here is just one example of a very good tool: http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/d...sword_14353_p/ I'm sorry Graham, but your information is just either wrong or not applicable in this circumstance. -Scott "Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... There are two issues here - accessing the files and accessing the protected documents. The first can be overcome by copying the discs to flash memory and then you can copy them to the hard drive to access them (DON'T access then from the flash memory). If you don't know the passwords to open the documents, the chances of opening them are slim to non-existent. The documents are encrypted and you need the password to break the encryption. - see http://www.gmayor.com/Remove_Password.htm -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Water and Trees wrote: In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, |
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#5
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
On Aug 25, 4:34*pm, "Scott M." wrote:
I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. *And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Secondly, why do the disk files need to be copied to flash memory before being put on to a hard drive? *And for that matter, why can't the files be opened from a flash drive? 2a. Because, as OP noted, the computer doesn't have a diskette drive. 2b. Because Word needs lots of space for creating the temporary files it uses, and flash drives may not have adequate free space, and corruption or loss of the file is a frequent result. Thirdly, there are MANY tools out there that use different techniques to open a Word document that is password protected, here is just one example of a very good tool:http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/d...sword_14353_p/ I'm sorry Graham, but your information is just either wrong or not applicable in this circumstance. -Scott "Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... There are two issues here - accessing the files and accessing the protected documents. The first can be overcome by copying the discs to flash memory and then you can copy them to the hard drive to access them (DON'T access then from the flash memory). If you don't know the passwords to open the documents, the chances of opening them are slim to non-existent. The documents are encrypted and you need the password to break the encryption. - see http://www.gmayor.com/Remove_Password.htm -- Graham Mayor - *Word MVP My web sitewww.gmayor.com Word MVP web sitehttp://word.mvps.org Water and Trees wrote: In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. *Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. *I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks,- |
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#6
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
I think there may be some confusion on the type of password that was set on
the documents. The information on Graham's page is for recovering a passwords used to protect Word documents for forms/read only/tracked changes which are all collaborative tools and aren't intended to be used for security. When a document has been protected for collaboration then it can be opened in Word and they can be easily bypassed. If a password is required to open the document then Graham's page isn't applicable. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Thirdly, there are MANY tools out there that use different techniques to open a Word document that is password protected, here is just one example of a very good tool: http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/d...sword_14353_p/ I'm sorry Graham, but your information is just either wrong or not applicable in this circumstance. |
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#7
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 4:34 pm, "Scott M." wrote: I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Secondly, why do the disk files need to be copied to flash memory before being put on to a hard drive? And for that matter, why can't the files be opened from a flash drive? 2a. Because, as OP noted, the computer doesn't have a diskette drive. 2C: The OP indicated that a friend has a machine that will take the disks and transfer them to a hard drive--No flash needed. 2b. Because Word needs lots of space for creating the temporary files it uses, and flash drives may not have adequate free space, and corruption or loss of the file is a frequent result. 2C: You'll have a tough time finding a flash drive sold today that is less than 2GB -- more than enough space for Word docs that were stored on a 1.44 MB floppy. Corruption is only frequent if you pull the flash card from the USB slot while data is still being read/written. With most modern flash drives, you don't even have to go through the Windows XP "Saftely remove hardware" procedure. 2C-A - Why are we talking about flash drives again? -Scott |
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#8
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
I was proceeding under the assumption that the docs have a password required
to open the file. Otherwise, the OP could open the file and simply save it under a new name. I found Graham's page not to be relevant because the OP is talking about Word docs made in 1994, long before Word stored any meta information in XML along with the document. -Scott "Beth Melton" wrote in message ... I think there may be some confusion on the type of password that was set on the documents. The information on Graham's page is for recovering a passwords used to protect Word documents for forms/read only/tracked changes which are all collaborative tools and aren't intended to be used for security. When a document has been protected for collaboration then it can be opened in Word and they can be easily bypassed. If a password is required to open the document then Graham's page isn't applicable. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Thirdly, there are MANY tools out there that use different techniques to open a Word document that is password protected, here is just one example of a very good tool: http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/d...sword_14353_p/ I'm sorry Graham, but your information is just either wrong or not applicable in this circumstance. |
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#9
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
I believe Graham was referring to the first paragraph of his page which
reads: "There are lots of people out there who purport to be able to crack passwords, but Word's protection is pretty good and does not come with any back doors, so while you can break the password eventually by trial and error using software that will try all possible examples, a suitably strong password will take a seriously long time to break. There is an example of such software listed on the favourites (http://www.gmayor.com/favorite.htm) page of this site." The rest applies to documents protected for collaboration with a password and saving them with a new name doesn't strip the password. I wasn't disagreeing, I think they're they're likely protected with a file access password too and other than the first paragraph it's probably not relevant to this specific situation. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... I was proceeding under the assumption that the docs have a password required to open the file. Otherwise, the OP could open the file and simply save it under a new name. I found Graham's page not to be relevant because the OP is talking about Word docs made in 1994, long before Word stored any meta information in XML along with the document. -Scott "Beth Melton" wrote in message ... I think there may be some confusion on the type of password that was set on the documents. The information on Graham's page is for recovering a passwords used to protect Word documents for forms/read only/tracked changes which are all collaborative tools and aren't intended to be used for security. When a document has been protected for collaboration then it can be opened in Word and they can be easily bypassed. If a password is required to open the document then Graham's page isn't applicable. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Thirdly, there are MANY tools out there that use different techniques to open a Word document that is password protected, here is just one example of a very good tool: http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/d...sword_14353_p/ I'm sorry Graham, but your information is just either wrong or not applicable in this circumstance. |
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#10
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
On Aug 25, 6:15*pm, "Scott M." wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in ... On Aug 25, 4:34 pm, "Scott M." wrote: I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Secondly, why do the disk files need to be copied to flash memory before being put on to a hard drive? And for that matter, why can't the files be opened from a flash drive? 2a. Because, as OP noted, the computer doesn't have a diskette drive. 2C: *The OP indicated that a friend has a machine that will take the disks and transfer them to a hard drive--No flash needed. And how does that get them from friend's computer to OP's computer? 2b. Because Word needs lots of space for creating the temporary files it uses, and flash drives may not have adequate free space, and corruption or loss of the file is a frequent result. 2C: You'll have a tough time finding a flash drive sold today that is less than 2GB -- more than enough space for Word docs that were stored on a 1.44 MB floppy. *Corruption is only frequent if you pull the flash card from the USB slot while data is still being read/written. With most modern flash drives, you don't even have to go through the Windows XP "Saftely remove hardware" procedure. 2C-A - Why are we talking about flash drives again? "Again"? Because many people read this newsgroup and, from the number of complaints about corrupted files that were saved directly to or opened directly from flash drives, it's a major problem that needs to be pointed out probably several times a day. |
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#11
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
There are lots of password crackers available - including the example I
referred to from my web site which does all that the one you referred to can manage. Password crackers have one thing in common. The demos can easily crack a password that comprises four characters. They do not work so remarkably when you try to crack a password of 8 or more random characters - and you only discover that after you have paid your money. A decent password can be cracked eventually, but it will take a seriously long time of continuous processing to do so. We have no idea what sort of password strength the OP may have used. As Beth has pointed out, I referred to my web page primarily for its first paragraph that merely emphasises the point that passwords against opening a document are not easy to get around - and refer to software that I have tried and know works ... eventually ... should the OP need such an approach. As others have reminded you - the OP does not have a floppy drive. He needs a means of getting the data from floppy to his PC. The PC will almost certainly have a USB port, which makes flash a simple means of data transfer, provided he can get access to a floppy drive or can get someone copy the floppy discs for him. Despite your protestations elsewhere in this thread, opening documents from removable media is a frequent source of data corruption, and there is more than enough evidence to show that this is the case - we see it in this forum every week. We have no idea how large the flash media the OP may have available (I have one piece with 8mb capacity), nor any idea how many files are involved. Accessing data directly from flash media *may* not result in a problem, but equally it might, so as I don't know what we are dealing with any more than you do, suggesting the safest course is the best approach. The safest course is to copy the files to the hard drive and open them from there. -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Scott M. wrote: I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Secondly, why do the disk files need to be copied to flash memory before being put on to a hard drive? And for that matter, why can't the files be opened from a flash drive? Thirdly, there are MANY tools out there that use different techniques to open a Word document that is password protected, here is just one example of a very good tool: http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/d...sword_14353_p/ I'm sorry Graham, but your information is just either wrong or not applicable in this circumstance. -Scott "Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... There are two issues here - accessing the files and accessing the protected documents. The first can be overcome by copying the discs to flash memory and then you can copy them to the hard drive to access them (DON'T access then from the flash memory). If you don't know the passwords to open the documents, the chances of opening them are slim to non-existent. The documents are encrypted and you need the password to break the encryption. - see http://www.gmayor.com/Remove_Password.htm -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Water and Trees wrote: In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, |
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#12
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
And how does that get them from friend's computer to OP's computer?
Email? Remember we're talking about less than 1.44 MB of data. 2b. Because Word needs lots of space for creating the temporary files it uses, and flash drives may not have adequate free space, and corruption or loss of the file is a frequent result. 2C: You'll have a tough time finding a flash drive sold today that is less than 2GB -- more than enough space for Word docs that were stored on a 1.44 MB floppy. Corruption is only frequent if you pull the flash card from the USB slot while data is still being read/written. With most modern flash drives, you don't even have to go through the Windows XP "Saftely remove hardware" procedure. 2C-A - Why are we talking about flash drives again? "Again"? "Again" as in "remind me" since this was not brought up in the OP at all. Because many people read this newsgroup and, from the number of complaints about corrupted files that were saved directly to or opened directly from flash drives, it's a major problem that needs to be pointed out probably several times a day. There is no evidence that flash memory is any more volitile than HDD memory. The fact that many people encounter corruption with flash drives is not an indicator that there is a problem with flash drives per se. It is more likely that the people reporting problems are not using them properly (pulling the drive while it's still being read from/written to). In a NG, you'll most likely hear from the folks that don't know how to do something correctly. Rather than make a statement like "DON'T access then from the flash memory", which has no basis for being a technicological problem, Graham should have said something like "If you use a flash drive to transfer the files, be careful to only pull the drive out after you've successfully completed the save operation to the drive.". But, to somehow imply that documents on flash drives shouldn't be opened directly is absurd. -Scott |
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#13
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... There are lots of password crackers available - including the example I referred to from my web site which does all that the one you referred to can manage. Password crackers have one thing in common. The demos can easily crack a password that comprises four characters. They do not work so remarkably when you try to crack a password of 8 or more random characters - and you only discover that after you have paid your money. A decent password can be cracked eventually, but it will take a seriously long time of continuous processing to do so. We have no idea what sort of password strength the OP may have used. I don't really get what your point here is. There IS software available to crack passwords or use brute force and they do work. Your post sounded like you were telling the OP that a password protected file cannot ever be opened without the password. Despite your assertions to the contrary, software does exist (like the one I pointed out) that can unlock a file regardless of the password length in a relatively short time. The bottom line is that if you need to access a password protected file, you CAN do it. As others have reminded you - the OP does not have a floppy drive. He needs a means of getting the data from floppy to his PC. The PC will almost certainly have a USB port, which makes flash a simple means of data transfer, provided he can get access to a floppy drive or can get someone copy the floppy discs for him. It's hard to "remind" someone of something that was never brought up. The OP said nothing about flash drives. He did however, mention that the original data was on a 1.44 MB floppy drive. I am not aware of ANY flash drive ever made commercially that wasn't at least 5 times bigger than that and those aren't even sold anymore. Such a small amount of data could simply be emailed from the friend's machine to the OP's machine. No one brought up flash drives but you and that's why I questioned it. Despite your protestations elsewhere in this thread, opening documents from removable media is a frequent source of data corruption, and there is more than enough evidence to show that this is the case - we see it in this forum every week. We have no idea how large the flash media the OP may have available (I have one piece with 8mb capacity), nor any idea how many files are involved. Accessing data directly from flash media *may* not result in a problem, but equally it might, so as I don't know what we are dealing with any more than you do, suggesting the safest course is the best approach. The safest course is to copy the files to the hard drive and open them from there. As I've mentioned in another response in this thread, there is no technilogical reason whatsoever for any more corruption with flash memory than HDD memory. I agree that you may hear many more people talking about corruption with flash memory than HDD memory, but in a NG, you will always hear about the problems people have. People don't post to tell you that everything worked as it should. Flash memory can get corrupted in exactly the same manner than HDD memory would get corrupted. But, with flash memory the most likely reason would be that the drive was pulled while still being written to or read from. Your brief "Don't do it!" message does not *inform* the newsgroup as to why you are saying what you are saying. It leaves someone who doesn't know better to believe that there is an inherent flaw with flash memory, which there is not. It would have been more appropriate for you to say something like "Be sure that the drive is no longer being accessed (by either checking the access light on the drive or using the Hardware removal wizard in the system tray) before you pull it out. I have been a looooong time contributor to the MS NG's and I been seeing an increasing amount of replies from MVP's that innacurately blame a technology when the technology is fine, but the use of that technology is flawed or incompletely recommend a solution, without indicating why that solution should be used. My goal in "nitpicking" your posts is to help newbies understand that, in reality, flash memory is just as stable as HDD memory, but because it's portable, the danger *potentially* lies in pulling the drive while it's being accessed. If you don't do that, you'll hardly ever encounter any corruption of files on flash media. -Scott -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Scott M. wrote: I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Secondly, why do the disk files need to be copied to flash memory before being put on to a hard drive? And for that matter, why can't the files be opened from a flash drive? Thirdly, there are MANY tools out there that use different techniques to open a Word document that is password protected, here is just one example of a very good tool: http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/d...sword_14353_p/ I'm sorry Graham, but your information is just either wrong or not applicable in this circumstance. -Scott "Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... There are two issues here - accessing the files and accessing the protected documents. The first can be overcome by copying the discs to flash memory and then you can copy them to the hard drive to access them (DON'T access then from the flash memory). If you don't know the passwords to open the documents, the chances of opening them are slim to non-existent. The documents are encrypted and you need the password to break the encryption. - see http://www.gmayor.com/Remove_Password.htm -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Water and Trees wrote: In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, |
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#14
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
I really don't know why I am wasting my time responding to your attempts at
trolling, in a thread that was done and dusted from the first reply, and I don't mean by your supercilious reply with a link to a search engine. To sum up for anyone who can be bothered wading through your last diatribe. You assert that passwords can easily be cracked if only you have the right software. This is simply nonsense. However they can be cracked if you have sufficient time - which was covered in my web page. You also try and assert that it is somehow better to subsitute a means of transferring data that *might* be safe with one that *is* safe - for no good reason. 'Hardly ever' is fine until you lose the data, and if you spent as much time in these newsgroups as the MVPs who service them, you would know that hardly a week goes by when someone loses data by writing to or reading from flash media. So what is the point of your post other than to raise argument where none is required? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Scott M. wrote: "Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... There are lots of password crackers available - including the example I referred to from my web site which does all that the one you referred to can manage. Password crackers have one thing in common. The demos can easily crack a password that comprises four characters. They do not work so remarkably when you try to crack a password of 8 or more random characters - and you only discover that after you have paid your money. A decent password can be cracked eventually, but it will take a seriously long time of continuous processing to do so. We have no idea what sort of password strength the OP may have used. I don't really get what your point here is. There IS software available to crack passwords or use brute force and they do work. Your post sounded like you were telling the OP that a password protected file cannot ever be opened without the password. Despite your assertions to the contrary, software does exist (like the one I pointed out) that can unlock a file regardless of the password length in a relatively short time. The bottom line is that if you need to access a password protected file, you CAN do it. As others have reminded you - the OP does not have a floppy drive. He needs a means of getting the data from floppy to his PC. The PC will almost certainly have a USB port, which makes flash a simple means of data transfer, provided he can get access to a floppy drive or can get someone copy the floppy discs for him. It's hard to "remind" someone of something that was never brought up. The OP said nothing about flash drives. He did however, mention that the original data was on a 1.44 MB floppy drive. I am not aware of ANY flash drive ever made commercially that wasn't at least 5 times bigger than that and those aren't even sold anymore. Such a small amount of data could simply be emailed from the friend's machine to the OP's machine. No one brought up flash drives but you and that's why I questioned it. Despite your protestations elsewhere in this thread, opening documents from removable media is a frequent source of data corruption, and there is more than enough evidence to show that this is the case - we see it in this forum every week. We have no idea how large the flash media the OP may have available (I have one piece with 8mb capacity), nor any idea how many files are involved. Accessing data directly from flash media *may* not result in a problem, but equally it might, so as I don't know what we are dealing with any more than you do, suggesting the safest course is the best approach. The safest course is to copy the files to the hard drive and open them from there. As I've mentioned in another response in this thread, there is no technilogical reason whatsoever for any more corruption with flash memory than HDD memory. I agree that you may hear many more people talking about corruption with flash memory than HDD memory, but in a NG, you will always hear about the problems people have. People don't post to tell you that everything worked as it should. Flash memory can get corrupted in exactly the same manner than HDD memory would get corrupted. But, with flash memory the most likely reason would be that the drive was pulled while still being written to or read from. Your brief "Don't do it!" message does not *inform* the newsgroup as to why you are saying what you are saying. It leaves someone who doesn't know better to believe that there is an inherent flaw with flash memory, which there is not. It would have been more appropriate for you to say something like "Be sure that the drive is no longer being accessed (by either checking the access light on the drive or using the Hardware removal wizard in the system tray) before you pull it out. I have been a looooong time contributor to the MS NG's and I been seeing an increasing amount of replies from MVP's that innacurately blame a technology when the technology is fine, but the use of that technology is flawed or incompletely recommend a solution, without indicating why that solution should be used. My goal in "nitpicking" your posts is to help newbies understand that, in reality, flash memory is just as stable as HDD memory, but because it's portable, the danger *potentially* lies in pulling the drive while it's being accessed. If you don't do that, you'll hardly ever encounter any corruption of files on flash media. -Scott -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Scott M. wrote: I hardly think that Word documents saved in 1994 had XML metadata stored along with them. And so, the information on your page would not be useful. Secondly, why do the disk files need to be copied to flash memory before being put on to a hard drive? And for that matter, why can't the files be opened from a flash drive? Thirdly, there are MANY tools out there that use different techniques to open a Word document that is password protected, here is just one example of a very good tool: http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/d...sword_14353_p/ I'm sorry Graham, but your information is just either wrong or not applicable in this circumstance. -Scott "Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... There are two issues here - accessing the files and accessing the protected documents. The first can be overcome by copying the discs to flash memory and then you can copy them to the hard drive to access them (DON'T access then from the flash memory). If you don't know the passwords to open the documents, the chances of opening them are slim to non-existent. The documents are encrypted and you need the password to break the encryption. - see http://www.gmayor.com/Remove_Password.htm -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Water and Trees wrote: In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, |
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#15
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... So what is the point of your post other than to raise argument where none is required? Hmmm. So you consider pointing out inaccuracies in a post trolling? Ok. Well, despite your "I'm right no matter what you say." attitude, you aren't right. 1. You say that software won't help open a password protected file. You are WRONG, period. 2. You say that somehow emailing a document is not a safe way to transport a document to its destination? I won't even begin on that one. 3. You say that because "just last week" there was a post about someone who's data got corrupted on a flash drive proves that flash memory is somehow less reliable than HDD memory. All of these assertions are WRONG and there is ample evidence to show it. Your argument that I am somehow trolling and providing diatribe just bolsters my point that you aren't really interested in providing any technical information, you just want to provide 1/2 answers to questions that were not asked. You were right about one thing. The question was answered after the first reply, which was mine. Your posts have added nothing to the conversation: 1. You brought flash memory into the fray, when no one had asked about it. 2. You posted a link to a web page that, not only wasn't applicable, but provided no course of action to help solve the problem. 3. You have resorted to slinging insults to someone who is making a perfectly valid point about the mis-insformation you've provided. Lastly, as someone who HAS been contributing to the MS NG's for well over a decade, I do know that most of what you can garner from user posts here is anecdotal evidence of a problem. Of course you will find post after post describing some problem using Word documents in a Word Newsgroup. That's because that's where people go to get problems solved. Just because you find a lot of people low or out of gas at a gas station doesn't mean that fuel tanks leak! And that is exactly the way you have come to your diagnosis of flash memory, based on anecdotal information. There is NO technical documentation of flash memory being any more volitile than HDD memory when used correctly. ANY file can/will become corrupted when the storage medium is disengaged while it is in use. To advise to simply stop trying to access data on the storage medium doesn't address the REAL issue and newbies reading such a post will walk away with the incorrect idea that you shouldn't try to access files from a flash drive, when they should come away with an understand of how to correctly use flash memory. But hey, if you goal isn't to educate and simply to spread misinformaiton - - good job! -Scott |
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#16
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
On Aug 26, 9:18*am, "Scott M." wrote:
And how does that get them from friend's computer to OP's computer? Email? Remember we're talking about less than 1.44 MB of data. No, we're talking about "a whole box" of diskettes. Now it might be a 10-diskette retail box, but I'm envisioning more something like a shoebox. 2b. Because Word needs lots of space for creating the temporary files it uses, and flash drives may not have adequate free space, and corruption or loss of the file is a frequent result. 2C: You'll have a tough time finding a flash drive sold today that is less than 2GB -- more than enough space for Word docs that were stored on a 1.44 MB floppy. Corruption is only frequent if you pull the flash card from the USB slot while data is still being read/written. With most modern flash drives, you don't even have to go through the Windows XP "Saftely remove hardware" procedure. 2C-A - Why are we talking about flash drives again? "Again"? "Again" as in "remind me" since this was not brought up in the OP at all. Because when Graham answered OP's question, he recommended transferring the files from the friend's computer to the OP's computer by flash drive, and then you questioned why a flash drive would be needed given that one of the computers involved in the process had a diskette drive. Because many people read this newsgroup and, from the number of complaints about corrupted files that were saved directly to or opened directly from flash drives, it's a major problem that needs to be pointed out probably several times a day. There is no evidence that flash memory is any more volitile than HDD memory. No one has mentioned volatility of memory. What _seems_ to be the problem is that Word needs to create lots and lots of temporary files in the same folder as the original document, and if the flash drive runs out of space, you're screwed. The fact that many people encounter corruption with flash drives is not an indicator that there is a problem with flash drives per se. *It is more likely that the people reporting problems are not using them properly (pulling the drive while it's still being read from/written to). *In a NG, you'll most likely hear from the folks that don't know how to do something correctly. *Rather than make a statement like "DON'T access then from the flash memory", which has no basis for being a technicological problem, Graham should have said something like "If you use a flash drive to transfer the files, be careful to only pull the drive out after you've successfully completed the save operation to the drive.". But, to somehow imply that documents on flash drives shouldn't be opened directly is absurd. You clearly haven't been reading this newsgroup very long, and if you're in the habit of saving or reading documents directly from Word to/from flash drives, instead of always accessing them from a hard drive, and you've had no ill experiences, then you've been very lucky. |
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#17
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
On Aug 26, 9:40*am, "Scott M." wrote:
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message As others have reminded you - the OP does not have a floppy drive. He needs a means of getting the data from floppy to his PC. The PC will almost certainly have a USB port, which makes flash a simple means of data transfer, provided he can get access to a floppy drive or can get someone copy the floppy discs for him. It's hard to "remind" someone of something that was never brought up. *The It was "brought up" in OP's message. "No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs." |
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#18
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message ... On Aug 26, 9:18 am, "Scott M." wrote: And how does that get them from friend's computer to OP's computer? Email? Remember we're talking about less than 1.44 MB of data. No, we're talking about "a whole box" of diskettes. Now it might be a 10-diskette retail box, but I'm envisioning more something like a shoebox. And why wouldn't email be a way to transfer that? 2b. Because Word needs lots of space for creating the temporary files it uses, and flash drives may not have adequate free space, and corruption or loss of the file is a frequent result. 2C: You'll have a tough time finding a flash drive sold today that is less than 2GB -- more than enough space for Word docs that were stored on a 1.44 MB floppy. Corruption is only frequent if you pull the flash card from the USB slot while data is still being read/written. With most modern flash drives, you don't even have to go through the Windows XP "Saftely remove hardware" procedure. 2C-A - Why are we talking about flash drives again? "Again"? "Again" as in "remind me" since this was not brought up in the OP at all. Because when Graham answered OP's question, he recommended transferring the files from the friend's computer to the OP's computer by flash drive, and then you questioned why a flash drive would be needed given that one of the computers involved in the process had a diskette drive. Because many people read this newsgroup and, from the number of complaints about corrupted files that were saved directly to or opened directly from flash drives, it's a major problem that needs to be pointed out probably several times a day. There is no evidence that flash memory is any more volitile than HDD memory. No one has mentioned volatility of memory. What _seems_ to be the problem is that Word needs to create lots and lots of temporary files in the same folder as the original document, and if the flash drive runs out of space, you're screwed. Word creates one (1) temporary file per document that is open. If one document is open (and why would you need more than one open at a time to transfer them?), then the file created is no larger than the original document in the first place. If you have a flash drive that can't support one additional file placed on it, then you probably shouldn't be using that flash drive in the first place. Also, given then my local Best Buy doesn't even sell a flash drive less than 4 GB anymore, you'd easily be able to store 2000 floppy disks worth of information on it. The fact that many people encounter corruption with flash drives is not an indicator that there is a problem with flash drives per se. It is more likely that the people reporting problems are not using them properly (pulling the drive while it's still being read from/written to). In a NG, you'll most likely hear from the folks that don't know how to do something correctly. Rather than make a statement like "DON'T access then from the flash memory", which has no basis for being a technicological problem, Graham should have said something like "If you use a flash drive to transfer the files, be careful to only pull the drive out after you've successfully completed the save operation to the drive.". But, to somehow imply that documents on flash drives shouldn't be opened directly is absurd. You clearly haven't been reading this newsgroup very long, Why? Because I disagree with an MVP's suggestion? Again, I have no doubt that many people here have encountered file corruption with flash drives. But that, in and of itself, does not mean that the flash drive itself is the problem. Newsgroups are where people (usually inexperienced or uninformed) go to get help. and if you're in the habit of saving or reading documents directly from Word to/from flash drives, instead of always accessing them from a hard drive, and you've had no ill experiences, then you've been very lucky. No, I've been educated and informed enough about the technology to know how to use it correctly. You cannot provide ANY technical evidence that using a flash drive correctly is any more prone to file corruption than HDD media. -Scott |
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#19
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
And where is "flash drive" mentioned? It's not. Data can be transferred
from one machine to the other in several ways (direct file transfer using a cable, burn to CD/DVD, email) that do not require flash drives at all. Graham brought it into the discussion along with a bogus warning that was not fully explained. -Scott "Peter T. Daniels" wrote in message ... On Aug 26, 9:40 am, "Scott M." wrote: "Graham Mayor" wrote in message As others have reminded you - the OP does not have a floppy drive. He needs a means of getting the data from floppy to his PC. The PC will almost certainly have a USB port, which makes flash a simple means of data transfer, provided he can get access to a floppy drive or can get someone copy the floppy discs for him. It's hard to "remind" someone of something that was never brought up. The It was "brought up" in OP's message. "No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs." |
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#20
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
"Scott M." wrote in message
... There is no evidence that flash memory is any more volitile than HDD memory. The fact that many people encounter corruption with flash drives is not an indicator that there is a problem with flash drives per se. It is more likely that the people reporting problems are not using them properly (pulling the drive while it's still being read from/written to). In a NG, you'll most likely hear from the folks that don't know how to do something correctly. Rather than make a statement like "DON'T access then from the flash memory", which has no basis for being a technicological problem, Graham should have said something like "If you use a flash drive to transfer the files, be careful to only pull the drive out after you've successfully completed the save operation to the drive.". But, to somehow imply that documents on flash drives shouldn't be opened directly is absurd. I used to feel this way as well but that was before I lost an important document after editing it directly on a flash drive. I know how to safely remove a flash drive and I also exited Word prior to ejecting it. I even had the Word option for "Copy remotely stored files onto your computer, and update the remote file when saving" enabled. My personal experience is enough evidence for me to now advise others to copy files to their local drive and after exiting Word to copy them back to their flash drive. Even though it may sound absurd I don't want to be the one to advocate working directly off a flash drive and have someone lose an important document because of my advice. FWIW, the only reason I was working on documents directly off a flash drive was to prove this advice wrong. LOL Also note if someone removes their flash drive after saving you risk corruption due to how Word manages temp files. When you save a file that doesn't mean all of the content in the Word document is finalized. Some finalization occurs when you close the file and Word may also perform some clean-up activities when you exit the application. This includes clean-up on the flash drive since Word saves some temp files in the same location as the saved document and depending on what was done while the document was open, such copying images and multiple sections in the document, temp files and links to the document are maintained. For more on how Word uses temp files take a look at this article: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/211632 ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP |
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#21
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
You might want to read up on the temp files Word creates so you're better
informed about how Word works. :-) No one is contending flash memory is more volatile than HDD memory. What we're contending is due to how Word creates and manages temp files Word documents become more susceptible to corruption when working directly off a flash drive than they would in other applications. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... Word creates one (1) temporary file per document that is open. If one document is open (and why would you need more than one open at a time to transfer them?), then the file created is no larger than the original document in the first place. No, I've been educated and informed enough about the technology to know how to use it correctly. You cannot provide ANY technical evidence that using a flash drive correctly is any more prone to file corruption than HDD media. |
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#22
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
Two things here Beth...
1. When you say that Word documents are more susceptible to corruption when accessed directly from flash memory, you are, in fact saying that flash memory is more volitile than HDD memory (which it is not). 2. If you are using the flash memory and Word properly, you are no more in danger than if you were working off a HDD. The temporary files that are created by Word are in no more danger of becomming corrupt than if you were working of the HDD. -Scott "Beth Melton" wrote in message ... You might want to read up on the temp files Word creates so you're better informed about how Word works. :-) No one is contending flash memory is more volatile than HDD memory. What we're contending is due to how Word creates and manages temp files Word documents become more susceptible to corruption when working directly off a flash drive than they would in other applications. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... Word creates one (1) temporary file per document that is open. If one document is open (and why would you need more than one open at a time to transfer them?), then the file created is no larger than the original document in the first place. No, I've been educated and informed enough about the technology to know how to use it correctly. You cannot provide ANY technical evidence that using a flash drive correctly is any more prone to file corruption than HDD media. |
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#23
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
I could give a similar anecdote about losing a bunch of important photos a
few years back when my hard drive failed. It doesn't mean we stop working with hard drives. This thread has really gotten away from my simple initial point, which is to say "don't access a file from a flash drive" without any explanantion of why or what *could* happen is irresponsible. And, believe it or not, I'm not advocating the practice. What I'm saying is that, in and of itself, the practice is not dangerous and that Graham's comments were incomplete as well as his later explanation innacurate. As with ALL computer files, having a backup copy is the best bet 100% of the time. I just find it troubling that more and more in the NG's I'm hearing MVP's doling out, what sounds like absolute edicts without any explanation, which leaves a newbie (the vast majority of NG readers) believing what they are hearing without understanding what they've been told. Graham hasn't helped his cause with irrational statements like saying the software will not help you open a password protected Word document, only time will (almost verbaitim what he said). Using that logic, you could say that nothing in the universe happens, but for the passage of time (extostential for sure, but practical and true for day to day living - - hardly true at all). -Scott "Beth Melton" wrote in message ... "Scott M." wrote in message ... There is no evidence that flash memory is any more volitile than HDD memory. The fact that many people encounter corruption with flash drives is not an indicator that there is a problem with flash drives per se. It is more likely that the people reporting problems are not using them properly (pulling the drive while it's still being read from/written to). In a NG, you'll most likely hear from the folks that don't know how to do something correctly. Rather than make a statement like "DON'T access then from the flash memory", which has no basis for being a technicological problem, Graham should have said something like "If you use a flash drive to transfer the files, be careful to only pull the drive out after you've successfully completed the save operation to the drive.". But, to somehow imply that documents on flash drives shouldn't be opened directly is absurd. I used to feel this way as well but that was before I lost an important document after editing it directly on a flash drive. I know how to safely remove a flash drive and I also exited Word prior to ejecting it. I even had the Word option for "Copy remotely stored files onto your computer, and update the remote file when saving" enabled. My personal experience is enough evidence for me to now advise others to copy files to their local drive and after exiting Word to copy them back to their flash drive. Even though it may sound absurd I don't want to be the one to advocate working directly off a flash drive and have someone lose an important document because of my advice. FWIW, the only reason I was working on documents directly off a flash drive was to prove this advice wrong. LOL Also note if someone removes their flash drive after saving you risk corruption due to how Word manages temp files. When you save a file that doesn't mean all of the content in the Word document is finalized. Some finalization occurs when you close the file and Word may also perform some clean-up activities when you exit the application. This includes clean-up on the flash drive since Word saves some temp files in the same location as the saved document and depending on what was done while the document was open, such copying images and multiple sections in the document, temp files and links to the document are maintained. For more on how Word uses temp files take a look at this article: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/211632 ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP |
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#24
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... You assert that passwords can easily be cracked if only you have the right software. This is simply nonsense. However they can be cracked if you have sufficient time - which was covered in my web page. Well, the OP has been waiting since 1994. So waiting for time to pass hasn't worked. Perhaps it's time to try some software? |
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#25
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
"Scott M." wrote in message
... Two things here Beth... 1. When you say that Word documents are more susceptible to corruption when accessed directly from flash memory, you are, in fact saying that flash memory is more volitile than HDD memory (which it is not). No, what I'm saying is the chances of the Word document not being saved correctly, due to how temp files are handled, when working off removable media makes them susceptible to corruption. IOW, it's a Word issue, not a removable media issue. It's for this reason the Word option "Copy remotely stored files onto your computer, and update the remote file when saving" was added. It's an attempt to prevent corruption. I say "attempt" because it's not 100% reliable and revisions are made in each version to correct various bugs. 2. If you are using the flash memory and Word properly, you are no more in danger than if you were working off a HDD. The temporary files that are created by Word are in no more danger of becomming corrupt than if you were working of the HDD. I have to disagree. It's not the temp files that can become corrupt - it's the pointers and links to the original document Word tends to hang onto -- even after the document is closed -- that cause the issue. Here's more on how Word uses temp files: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/211632 An excerpt: The location of temporary files when you close a file Word may occasionally have to maintain a link to a file after it is closed. This occurs when text has been copied to the Clipboard from the file. When you close a file, Word attempts the following actions: If the selection that was copied to the Clipboard does not contain multiple sections or a picture, or is not large, Word copies the piece of the document to the scratch file. If the copied selection does contain pictures or multiple sections, or if the file is on a floppy disk, Word copies the entire file to the Temp directory and moves the pointer there. Note the reference to "floppy disk" should be removable media. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Beth Melton" wrote in message ... You might want to read up on the temp files Word creates so you're better informed about how Word works. :-) No one is contending flash memory is more volatile than HDD memory. What we're contending is due to how Word creates and manages temp files Word documents become more susceptible to corruption when working directly off a flash drive than they would in other applications. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... Word creates one (1) temporary file per document that is open. If one document is open (and why would you need more than one open at a time to transfer them?), then the file created is no larger than the original document in the first place. No, I've been educated and informed enough about the technology to know how to use it correctly. You cannot provide ANY technical evidence that using a flash drive correctly is any more prone to file corruption than HDD media. |
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#26
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
On Aug 26, 1:46*pm, "Scott M." wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" wrote in ... On Aug 26, 9:18 am, "Scott M." wrote: And how does that get them from friend's computer to OP's computer? Email? Remember we're talking about less than 1.44 MB of data. No, we're talking about "a whole box" of diskettes. Now it might be a 10-diskette retail box, but I'm envisioning more something like a shoebox. And why wouldn't email be a way to transfer that? We could be talking about dozens or hundreds of files. 2b. Because Word needs lots of space for creating the temporary files it uses, and flash drives may not have adequate free space, and corruption or loss of the file is a frequent result. 2C: You'll have a tough time finding a flash drive sold today that is less than 2GB -- more than enough space for Word docs that were stored on a 1.44 MB floppy. Corruption is only frequent if you pull the flash card from the USB slot while data is still being read/written. With most modern flash drives, you don't even have to go through the Windows XP "Saftely remove hardware" procedure. 2C-A - Why are we talking about flash drives again? "Again"? "Again" as in "remind me" since this was not brought up in the OP at all. Because when Graham answered OP's question, he recommended transferring the files from the friend's computer to the OP's computer by flash drive, and then you questioned why a flash drive would be needed given that one of the computers involved in the process had a diskette drive. Because many people read this newsgroup and, from the number of complaints about corrupted files that were saved directly to or opened directly from flash drives, it's a major problem that needs to be pointed out probably several times a day. There is no evidence that flash memory is any more volitile than HDD memory. No one has mentioned volatility of memory. What _seems_ to be the problem is that Word needs to create lots and lots of temporary files in the same folder as the original document, and if the flash drive runs out of space, you're screwed. Word creates one (1) temporary file per document that is open. *If one document is open (and why would you need more than one open at a time to transfer them?), then the file created is no larger than the original document in the first place. *If you have a flash drive that can't support one additional file placed on it, then you probably shouldn't be using that flash drive in the first place. *Also, given then my local Best Buy doesn't even sell a flash drive less than 4 GB anymore, you'd easily be able to store 2000 floppy disks worth of information on it. Which is why it's ideal for transferring the files from one computer to the other. But _not_ for succumbing to the temptation not to bother with the extra step of copying them to the destination computer's hard drive. The fact that many people encounter corruption with flash drives is not an indicator that there is a problem with flash drives per se. It is more likely that the people reporting problems are not using them properly (pulling the drive while it's still being read from/written to). In a NG, you'll most likely hear from the folks that don't know how to do something correctly. Rather than make a statement like "DON'T access then from the flash memory", which has no basis for being a technicological problem, Graham should have said something like "If you use a flash drive to transfer the files, be careful to only pull the drive out after you've successfully completed the save operation to the drive.". But, to somehow imply that documents on flash drives shouldn't be opened directly is absurd. You clearly haven't been reading this newsgroup very long, Why? Because I disagree with an MVP's suggestion? *Again, I have no doubt Because you don't know that many people have lost files when they tried to work on them directly from flash drives. that many people here have encountered file corruption with flash drives. But that, in and of itself, does not mean that the flash drive itself is the problem. *Newsgroups are where people (usually inexperienced or uninformed) go to get help. and if you're in the habit of saving or reading documents directly from Word to/from flash drives, instead of always accessing them from a hard drive, and you've had no ill experiences, then you've been very lucky. No, I've been educated and informed enough about the technology to know how to use it correctly. *You cannot provide ANY technical evidence that using a flash drive correctly is any more prone to file corruption than HDD media.. You have no control over how Word deals with files. Beth has explained to you that it's not simply a matter of creating a single temporary file. |
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#27
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
On Aug 26, 2:51*pm, "Scott M." wrote:
Two things here Beth... 1. When you say that Word documents are more susceptible to corruption when accessed directly from flash memory, you are, in fact saying that flash memory is more volitile than HDD memory (which it is not). Unless you mean by "volitile" something other than what the rest of us mean by "volatile" (yes, that's a spelling flame, but you've seen it spelled correctly here by at least two of us several times), we are in fact saying nothing of the sort. The simple fact is that Word does not work the way you seem to think it does, and working directly from or to a flash drive is very unwise. 2. If you are using the flash memory and Word properly, you are no more in danger than if you were working off a HDD. *The temporary files that are created by Word are in no more danger of becomming corrupt than if you were working of the HDD. Again, it's not a matter of "file corruption" in the sense of a magnet or a cosmic ray or something disrupting the storage medium. It's a matter of Word creating lots of temporary files and not fully dealing with them until Word is fully closed down. "Beth Melton" wrote in message ... You might want to read up on the temp files Word creates so you're better informed about how Word works. :-) No one is contending flash memory is more volatile than HDD memory. What we're contending is due to how Word creates and manages temp files Word documents become more susceptible to corruption when working directly off a flash drive than they would in other applications. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... Word creates one (1) temporary file per document that is open. *If one document is open (and why would you need more than one open at a time to transfer them?), then the file created is no larger than the original document in the first place. No, I've been educated and informed enough about the technology to know how to use it correctly. *You cannot provide ANY technical evidence that using a flash drive correctly is any more prone to file corruption than HDD media.- |
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#28
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
I love my flash drives. I just don't edit Word documents directly from
removable media. ;-) I do edit other file types off removable media and I'll open and print a document directly from removable media, but I refrain from editing them. I can't say I disagree with the need to provide an explanation regarding the risks of editing Word documents directly from removable media. I say "risk" because there are so many different variables regarding the temp file creation (and issues with Fast Saves in older versions of Word - a general cause of corruption but more so on removable media and one of the reasons why it was removed from the application) one may or may not encounter an issue. I think it's best to advise on the risk rather than create a hard and fast rule. I usually try to take this route but I know there have been times I haven't when traffic is high. You raise a good point and in the future I'll make sure I elaborate more. As for this thread becoming a bit off-topic, I can't say that's a bad thing. After all, it's possible some of those who help out in the newsgroups know the risks about removable media and Word documents but never really knew the details surrounding the advice and all they really know are all of those posts we see from those asking how to recover a corrupt document stored on removable media. ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP "Scott M." wrote in message ... I could give a similar anecdote about losing a bunch of important photos a few years back when my hard drive failed. It doesn't mean we stop working with hard drives. This thread has really gotten away from my simple initial point, which is to say "don't access a file from a flash drive" without any explanantion of why or what *could* happen is irresponsible. And, believe it or not, I'm not advocating the practice. What I'm saying is that, in and of itself, the practice is not dangerous and that Graham's comments were incomplete as well as his later explanation innacurate. As with ALL computer files, having a backup copy is the best bet 100% of the time. I just find it troubling that more and more in the NG's I'm hearing MVP's doling out, what sounds like absolute edicts without any explanation, which leaves a newbie (the vast majority of NG readers) believing what they are hearing without understanding what they've been told. Graham hasn't helped his cause with irrational statements like saying the software will not help you open a password protected Word document, only time will (almost verbaitim what he said). Using that logic, you could say that nothing in the universe happens, but for the passage of time (extostential for sure, but practical and true for day to day living - - hardly true at all). -Scott "Beth Melton" wrote in message ... "Scott M." wrote in message ... There is no evidence that flash memory is any more volitile than HDD memory. The fact that many people encounter corruption with flash drives is not an indicator that there is a problem with flash drives per se. It is more likely that the people reporting problems are not using them properly (pulling the drive while it's still being read from/written to). In a NG, you'll most likely hear from the folks that don't know how to do something correctly. Rather than make a statement like "DON'T access then from the flash memory", which has no basis for being a technicological problem, Graham should have said something like "If you use a flash drive to transfer the files, be careful to only pull the drive out after you've successfully completed the save operation to the drive.". But, to somehow imply that documents on flash drives shouldn't be opened directly is absurd. I used to feel this way as well but that was before I lost an important document after editing it directly on a flash drive. I know how to safely remove a flash drive and I also exited Word prior to ejecting it. I even had the Word option for "Copy remotely stored files onto your computer, and update the remote file when saving" enabled. My personal experience is enough evidence for me to now advise others to copy files to their local drive and after exiting Word to copy them back to their flash drive. Even though it may sound absurd I don't want to be the one to advocate working directly off a flash drive and have someone lose an important document because of my advice. FWIW, the only reason I was working on documents directly off a flash drive was to prove this advice wrong. LOL Also note if someone removes their flash drive after saving you risk corruption due to how Word manages temp files. When you save a file that doesn't mean all of the content in the Word document is finalized. Some finalization occurs when you close the file and Word may also perform some clean-up activities when you exit the application. This includes clean-up on the flash drive since Word saves some temp files in the same location as the saved document and depending on what was done while the document was open, such copying images and multiple sections in the document, temp files and links to the document are maintained. For more on how Word uses temp files take a look at this article: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/211632 ~Beth Melton Microsoft Office MVP |
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#29
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
On Aug 24, 5:48*pm, "Scott M." wrote:
http://www.google.com/search?q=word+...rls=com.micros.... "Water and Trees" wrote in ... In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. *Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. *No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. *I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, -- WaterandTrees- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Scott, I have no interest in becoming involved in this brouhaha. I am interested in discussing a related matter privately. I am easy enough to reach. It is up to you. |
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#30
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
You are intentionally distorting what Graham has said, viz., that software
(including the app he recommends) will do the trick, but it may not do it quickly; it may take quite a long time if the password is longer than four characters. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Scott M." wrote in message ... "Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... You assert that passwords can easily be cracked if only you have the right software. This is simply nonsense. However they can be cracked if you have sufficient time - which was covered in my web page. Well, the OP has been waiting since 1994. So waiting for time to pass hasn't worked. Perhaps it's time to try some software? |
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#31
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
It is not the pointing out of inaccuracies that I would question - though I
have posted none in this thread - but the persistence in creating an argument where none is required, misrepresenting what was posted, simply to show off some largely irrelevant point that you have a bee in your bonnet about. I am not always right, and my ego is not so fragile that I cannot publically admit when I am wrong. I am not wrong on this occasion. In 1994 when these documents were created, I was working in the field of computer crime investigation. The need to open password protected documents was something that was a regular requirement. Software has improved and PCs have become faster since then, but the essential truth remains that it is not easy or quick to break other than simple passwords. I never said at any time that software would not help - but that it *could* take a seriously long time. Better to know the limitations of password cracking software before forking out $40 or so, than to sit waiting for the software to crack a single password with a whole box of discs sitting on the table (or transferred to the PC) waiting to be processed. For some life is too short to do that. If you are going to waste my time in arguments, at least have the courtesy to respond to what I actually wrote. I didn't mention e-mail at all! E-mail would be another acceptable method of data transfer and there are others too that would work. I didn't mention those either. There is ample anecdotal evidence that suggests when working with flash memory and Word you *may* run into problems that will cause data loss. I did not say that you *will* run into problems or that the problem was the flash media itself. I merely recommended a way of using it that was safe, and in the context of the OPs problem that was all that was required. It was you who chose to make an issue of it for. As you say, people come here for problem resolution. The problem posed by the user was addressed accurately by my original answer. The user has not been back to argue the point - and may have been deterred from doing so, by your need to polish your ego, so we may never know his thoughts on the matter. My 'goal' was merely to suggest an approach that would work in the context of the OPs problems. From the information the OP provided, the answer I provided was correct then and is still correct now. There was no need whatsoever for a technical treatise on the merits or otherwise of flash media. Only you have served to obfuscate the issue with your inaccurate ramblings about password cracking and by introducing a wholly unneccessary diatribe about flash memory - which while right as far is goes, is not relevant to the problem in hand, and if followed *may* as opposed to *will* result in the loss of the OPs data from the flash memory. The subject of the post was (and still is) "breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs". It seems that you paid scant regard to the word 'discs' and the fact that the the OP did not have a floppy drive to access them, but had a friend with a floppy drive, so the issues raised included that of getting the information from the friend to the PC without the floppy drive or there would have been no point in his mentioning of it. Your first reply which you believe answered the question was simply a link to Google - if you had wanted to be really offensive you could have used http://lmgtfy.com/?q=word+document+passwords which would have sent the same unhelpful message in an altogether more pointed way. So you expect others to educate, while you simply sneer? Is that the true measure of your contributions to the forums? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Scott M. wrote: "Graham Mayor" wrote in message .. So what is the point of your post other than to raise argument where none is required? Hmmm. So you consider pointing out inaccuracies in a post trolling? Ok. Well, despite your "I'm right no matter what you say." attitude, you aren't right. 1. You say that software won't help open a password protected file. You are WRONG, period. 2. You say that somehow emailing a document is not a safe way to transport a document to its destination? I won't even begin on that one. 3. You say that because "just last week" there was a post about someone who's data got corrupted on a flash drive proves that flash memory is somehow less reliable than HDD memory. All of these assertions are WRONG and there is ample evidence to show it. Your argument that I am somehow trolling and providing diatribe just bolsters my point that you aren't really interested in providing any technical information, you just want to provide 1/2 answers to questions that were not asked. You were right about one thing. The question was answered after the first reply, which was mine. Your posts have added nothing to the conversation: 1. You brought flash memory into the fray, when no one had asked about it. 2. You posted a link to a web page that, not only wasn't applicable, but provided no course of action to help solve the problem. 3. You have resorted to slinging insults to someone who is making a perfectly valid point about the mis-insformation you've provided. Lastly, as someone who HAS been contributing to the MS NG's for well over a decade, I do know that most of what you can garner from user posts here is anecdotal evidence of a problem. Of course you will find post after post describing some problem using Word documents in a Word Newsgroup. That's because that's where people go to get problems solved. Just because you find a lot of people low or out of gas at a gas station doesn't mean that fuel tanks leak! And that is exactly the way you have come to your diagnosis of flash memory, based on anecdotal information. There is NO technical documentation of flash memory being any more volitile than HDD memory when used correctly. ANY file can/will become corrupted when the storage medium is disengaged while it is in use. To advise to simply stop trying to access data on the storage medium doesn't address the REAL issue and newbies reading such a post will walk away with the incorrect idea that you shouldn't try to access files from a flash drive, when they should come away with an understand of how to correctly use flash memory. But hey, if you goal isn't to educate and simply to spread misinformaiton - - good job! -Scott |
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#32
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
I hesitate to enter a thread full of silly arguments, but if the Word
documents were created, and password-protected by Word, in 1994 they were obfuscated, using XOR, rather than really encrypted and, although I don't personally know of any software that can break this, I have no doubt some is available, and that it is a trivial task for modern PCs. I would imagine a web search would turn up something helpful. You may, though, have other problems with such old documents (depending what version of Word you are currently using). -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "Water and Trees" wrote in message ... In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, -- WaterandTrees |
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#33
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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breaking passwords on discs containing Word docs
One additional problem that is more than likely is that the disk itself is
hopelessly corrupted and unusable. Magnetic disks do degrade over time. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com wrote in message ... I hesitate to enter a thread full of silly arguments, but if the Word documents were created, and password-protected by Word, in 1994 they were obfuscated, using XOR, rather than really encrypted and, although I don't personally know of any software that can break this, I have no doubt some is available, and that it is a trivial task for modern PCs. I would imagine a web search would turn up something helpful. You may, though, have other problems with such old documents (depending what version of Word you are currently using). -- Enjoy, Tony www.WordArticles.com "Water and Trees" wrote in message ... In 1994 I prepared documents saving them to 3 1/2" discs. Recently found the discs (there's a whole box) and would like to access them. No slot on my current computer for them, but have a friend whose computer does still allow discs. My problem is wanting to by-pass the passwords I set for myself back in 1994. These are basic Word documents and there may be a few WordPerfect documents on these discs as well. I just want to get by the passwords and get to the documents. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, -- WaterandTrees |
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