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#1
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much
like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled €śMore€¦€ť and €śCustom€¦€ť. Upon clicking €śMore€¦€ť I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking €śCustom€¦€ť I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsofts server for retrieval by other users. 2) DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. Adding these two features to the Word References ribbon should satisfy the needs of the vast majority of academics and scientific researchers that currently rely on expensive software such as EndNote. If Microsoft can add these features, it will add an enormous value to Word. Please consider. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t |
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#2
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
On 13 feb, 18:38, Beau wrote:
Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) * * *CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled “More…” and “Custom…”. Upon clicking “More…” I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking “Custom…” I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsoft’s server for retrieval by other users. 2) * * *DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. Adding these two features to the Word References ribbon should satisfy the needs of the vast majority of academics and scientific researchers that currently rely on expensive software such as EndNote. If Microsoft can add these features, it will add an enormous value to Word. Please consider. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm....mspx?mid=b5a5.... Have you considered the cost? The suggested retail price by Microsoft for Office Home and Student 2007 is $149.95. It includes not only Word, but also Excel, Powerpoint, and OneNote. The price for a single copy of EndNote (not an upgrade) costs $249,95. Do you see the difference in pricing? If Word would be able to do what you want, they "should/could/would" have to more than double the price of their set of products. And that while only a small number of people would actually use this feature. Personally, I like the low price of Office. If I really want that functionality, I'll just pay extra for the separate tool. On a separate note, the European Union is constantly attacking Microsoft for including too much functionality in their OS, be it their Media Player (which resulted in Windows XP N) or their Internet Explorer (still ongoing). If they would include all your requests in Word 2010 (just putting a year here) by default, it wouldn't take long before they are once again under attack for not allowing fair competition (EndNote, RefMan, RefWorks, ...). I'm in favor of most of your ideas, but I would really like to see them as a separate tool rather than included in Word 2007. A database system containing your references should not be coupled to a single editor anyway. It should be possible to use it with Open Office as well for example. As a separate tool, people wouldn't be forced to buy it when they don't need it and we would get a fair market competition. Yves -- http://bibliography.codeplex.com |
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#3
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
On Feb 13, 2:20*pm, p0 wrote:
On 13 feb, 18:38, Beau wrote: Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) * * *CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled “More…” and “Custom…”. Upon clicking “More…” I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking “Custom…” I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsoft’s server for retrieval by other users. 2) * * *DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. Adding these two features to the Word References ribbon should satisfy the needs of the vast majority of academics and scientific researchers that currently rely on expensive software such as EndNote. If Microsoft can add these features, it will add an enormous value to Word. Please consider. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm....mspx?mid=b5a5.... Have you considered the cost? The suggested retail price by Microsoft for Office Home and Student 2007 is $149.95. It includes not only Word, but also Excel, Powerpoint, and OneNote. The price for a single copy of EndNote (not an upgrade) costs $249,95. Do you see the difference in pricing? If Word would be able to do what you want, they "should/could/would" have to more than double the price of their set of products. And that while only a small number of people would actually use this feature. Personally, I like the low price of Office. If I really want that functionality, I'll just pay extra for the separate tool. On a separate note, the European Union is constantly attacking Microsoft for including too much functionality in their OS, be it their Media Player (which resulted in Windows XP N) or their Internet Explorer (still ongoing). If they would include all your requests in Word 2010 (just putting a year here) by default, it wouldn't take long before they are once again under attack for not allowing fair competition (EndNote, RefMan, RefWorks, ...). I'm in favor of most of your ideas, but I would really like to see them as a separate tool rather than included in Word 2007. A database system containing your references should not be coupled to a single editor anyway. It should be possible to use it with Open Office as well for example. As a separate tool, people wouldn't be forced to buy it when they don't need it and we would get a fair market competition. Yet Microsoft chose to include a virtually non-functional imitation of a Bibliography system in Word2007. Your price comparison isn't fair -- EndNote is immensely overpriced, and MS certainly doesn't increase its prices by the amount the things it incorporates from other sources used to cost separately. |
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#4
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
On Feb 13, 10:18*pm, grammatim wrote:
On Feb 13, 2:20*pm, p0 wrote: On 13 feb, 18:38, Beau wrote: Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) * * *CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled “More…” and “Custom…”. Upon clicking “More…” I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking “Custom…” I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsoft’s server for retrieval by other users. 2) * * *DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. |
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#5
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
Since I have never seen a post from Microsoft in response to any of
these "Suggestions for Microsoft" posts, I thought I'd try to find out which posts had received enough votes for Microsoft to respond to them. I looked through all the groups listed "below" the office communities page at http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...s/default.mspx and found the following (if someone knows a page where you can just look up these stats, please let me know). 1. The posts visible through that interface go back to sometime in 2004 (there could be earlier ones- I didn't check every post!) 2. Over 3500 threads have been marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft." I have not tried to group these threads by their start dates, but there are certainly quite a lot of threads dated 2009, 2008 as well as earlier ones. 3. 40 Threads are marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response". None of those threads was initiated later than 2005 (early 2005, AFAICS) 4. Of the 3500 threads, the largest numbers are in a. Outlook (over 43 pages/over 1050 threads) b. Small Business Accounting (c. 30 pages/over 725 threads) c. office (c. 16p/ over 375 threads) d. Excel (c. 14 pages/over 325 threads) 5. Of the 40 threads marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" the largest numbers are in a. Office (19 threads) b. OneNote (11 threads) c. Office Development (2 threads) 6. No other product has more than one thread marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" 7. In the Word groups, over 250 threads are marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft". One thread is marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response", and the initial post in that thread is dated early 2005. 8. I did not find a way to see the number of "votes" for any given response. Of course, a. some suggestions may not actually be "genuine" suggestions - they could be rants etc. b. many suggestions seem to have been "answered" by other participants, e.g. perhaps a workaround was offered, or an explanation whysomething cannot work in a certain way c. just because Microsoft has not posted a response does not mean that they have not seen the suggestion or done anything about it d. for some products, the main discussions may well be considered to be elsewhere e. the large number of suggestions in the OneNote and Small Business Accounting groups may reflect the fact that they are recent products with a lively interest in the feature set. All that said, my conclusions (not a surprise to many, I suspect) are that a. the suggestions process has in effect been defunct for several years b. if you think your suggestion is really worth making, I'm sure there is no harm done posting it here, and you may see useful discussion/counter-proposals, but it may be better to put your effort into discovering a better channel for the suggestion. Unfortunately I cannot tell you what that might be, but since you come from an academic/research background, perhaps you ae in a better position to find out :-) Good luck! Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk Beau wrote: Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled €śMore€¦€ť and €śCustom€¦€ť. Upon clicking €śMore€¦€ť I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking €śCustom€¦€ť I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsofts server for retrieval by other users. 2) DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. Adding these two features to the Word References ribbon should satisfy the needs of the vast majority of academics and scientific researchers that currently rely on expensive software such as EndNote. If Microsoft can add these features, it will add an enormous value to Word. Please consider. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t |
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#7
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
Hi Bob,
Yes, there are plenty of possible explanations, and the "couldn't cope with the volume" is certainly one of them. It's a difficulty faced by every customer-facing organisation with a large customer base and cost-free contact methods such as e-mail. However, if Microsoft are not actually even looking at these suggestions and have no intention of responding to them through this mechanism, I really do think they should change the rubric in the relevant communities interface. I know that interface has been remarkably resistant to change, e.g. no plea to change "Mailmerge and Fax" to "Mailemrge and Fields" has ever been actioned :-) ), but I think it is a little unfair to advertise a facility that really no longer exists. Perhaps they could simply refer people to the facilities in the products instead. While they are about it, perhaps they could fix some of the other documentation, e.g. to do with posters' ratings. Or maybe if they are going to try to "move" the Office groups over to the MSDN-style web-based forums format there will be a big change anyway. I've never tried the newer feedback mechanism, for one reason and another, but would be interested to know if there are any stats. or even anecdotal info. about its use/effectiveness. From Microsoft's point of view, I doubt they are going to change or introduce features unless they have some pretty firm evidence it's on the menu of either a large number of potential upgraders, or corporates with large licence counts. To me, the interesting thing is that if, say, a body of academics wants to improve the citation mechanism (actually I have no personal interest in them at all), how do they best demonstrate the commercial or goodwill value of even considering such improvements. Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk CyberTaz wrote: Wow - Impressive research, Peter :-) One "guess" on my part re the lack of Response from MS is that volume alone prevents replying to suggestions, even though each may well be reviewed & evaluated - but I would imagine that's rather obvious. Another consideration, however, [perhaps supported by the time frames you cited] is that the Discussions groups served as a primary channel of communication earlier on. However, I believe the inclusion of the Feedback mechanism in the software [via Options Resources in 2007, via Help in prior versions] has supplanted the Suggestions method of the Discussions. ... Just some thoughts based on my perceptions of how things seem to have evolved on the Mac side as well. Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 2/14/09 6:44 AM, in article , "Peter Jamieson" wrote: Since I have never seen a post from Microsoft in response to any of these "Suggestions for Microsoft" posts, I thought I'd try to find out which posts had received enough votes for Microsoft to respond to them. I looked through all the groups listed "below" the office communities page at http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...s/default.mspx and found the following (if someone knows a page where you can just look up these stats, please let me know). 1. The posts visible through that interface go back to sometime in 2004 (there could be earlier ones- I didn't check every post!) 2. Over 3500 threads have been marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft." I have not tried to group these threads by their start dates, but there are certainly quite a lot of threads dated 2009, 2008 as well as earlier ones. 3. 40 Threads are marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response". None of those threads was initiated later than 2005 (early 2005, AFAICS) 4. Of the 3500 threads, the largest numbers are in a. Outlook (over 43 pages/over 1050 threads) b. Small Business Accounting (c. 30 pages/over 725 threads) c. office (c. 16p/ over 375 threads) d. Excel (c. 14 pages/over 325 threads) 5. Of the 40 threads marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" the largest numbers are in a. Office (19 threads) b. OneNote (11 threads) c. Office Development (2 threads) 6. No other product has more than one thread marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" 7. In the Word groups, over 250 threads are marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft". One thread is marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response", and the initial post in that thread is dated early 2005. 8. I did not find a way to see the number of "votes" for any given response. Of course, a. some suggestions may not actually be "genuine" suggestions - they could be rants etc. b. many suggestions seem to have been "answered" by other participants, e.g. perhaps a workaround was offered, or an explanation whysomething cannot work in a certain way c. just because Microsoft has not posted a response does not mean that they have not seen the suggestion or done anything about it d. for some products, the main discussions may well be considered to be elsewhere e. the large number of suggestions in the OneNote and Small Business Accounting groups may reflect the fact that they are recent products with a lively interest in the feature set. All that said, my conclusions (not a surprise to many, I suspect) are that a. the suggestions process has in effect been defunct for several years b. if you think your suggestion is really worth making, I'm sure there is no harm done posting it here, and you may see useful discussion/counter-proposals, but it may be better to put your effort into discovering a better channel for the suggestion. Unfortunately I cannot tell you what that might be, but since you come from an academic/research background, perhaps you ae in a better position to find out :-) Good luck! Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk Beau wrote: Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled łMoreŠ˛ and łCustomŠ˛. Upon clicking łMoreŠ˛ I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking łCustomŠ˛ I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsoftąs server for retrieval by other users. 2) DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. Adding these two features to the Word References ribbon should satisfy the needs of the vast majority of academics and scientific researchers that currently rely on expensive software such as EndNote. If Microsoft can add these features, it will add an enormous value to Word. Please consider. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...d=b5a5f511-1c0 9-476c-b8c6-49c12acba89c&dg=microsoft.public.word.docmanagemen t |
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#8
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
Another factor is that MS's initial commitment was never to respond to
suggestions generally but only to respond to those that received enough "votes" to appear important. And, since Peter says he can't see the number of votes each got, it's hard to judge that, but my impression is that suggestions virtually never receive votes. Here, at least, they are mostly met with arguments, workarounds, or pointing out that the requested feature already exists. I've seen some that I might have been willing to vote for if I were logged into the Web site, but since I post via NNTP, I don't have that option. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "CyberTaz" wrote in message .. . Wow - Impressive research, Peter :-) One "guess" on my part re the lack of Response from MS is that volume alone prevents replying to suggestions, even though each may well be reviewed & evaluated - but I would imagine that's rather obvious. Another consideration, however, [perhaps supported by the time frames you cited] is that the Discussions groups served as a primary channel of communication earlier on. However, I believe the inclusion of the Feedback mechanism in the software [via Options Resources in 2007, via Help in prior versions] has supplanted the Suggestions method of the Discussions. ... Just some thoughts based on my perceptions of how things seem to have evolved on the Mac side as well. Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 2/14/09 6:44 AM, in article , "Peter Jamieson" wrote: Since I have never seen a post from Microsoft in response to any of these "Suggestions for Microsoft" posts, I thought I'd try to find out which posts had received enough votes for Microsoft to respond to them. I looked through all the groups listed "below" the office communities page at http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...s/default.mspx and found the following (if someone knows a page where you can just look up these stats, please let me know). 1. The posts visible through that interface go back to sometime in 2004 (there could be earlier ones- I didn't check every post!) 2. Over 3500 threads have been marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft." I have not tried to group these threads by their start dates, but there are certainly quite a lot of threads dated 2009, 2008 as well as earlier ones. 3. 40 Threads are marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response". None of those threads was initiated later than 2005 (early 2005, AFAICS) 4. Of the 3500 threads, the largest numbers are in a. Outlook (over 43 pages/over 1050 threads) b. Small Business Accounting (c. 30 pages/over 725 threads) c. office (c. 16p/ over 375 threads) d. Excel (c. 14 pages/over 325 threads) 5. Of the 40 threads marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" the largest numbers are in a. Office (19 threads) b. OneNote (11 threads) c. Office Development (2 threads) 6. No other product has more than one thread marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" 7. In the Word groups, over 250 threads are marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft". One thread is marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response", and the initial post in that thread is dated early 2005. 8. I did not find a way to see the number of "votes" for any given response. Of course, a. some suggestions may not actually be "genuine" suggestions - they could be rants etc. b. many suggestions seem to have been "answered" by other participants, e.g. perhaps a workaround was offered, or an explanation whysomething cannot work in a certain way c. just because Microsoft has not posted a response does not mean that they have not seen the suggestion or done anything about it d. for some products, the main discussions may well be considered to be elsewhere e. the large number of suggestions in the OneNote and Small Business Accounting groups may reflect the fact that they are recent products with a lively interest in the feature set. All that said, my conclusions (not a surprise to many, I suspect) are that a. the suggestions process has in effect been defunct for several years b. if you think your suggestion is really worth making, I'm sure there is no harm done posting it here, and you may see useful discussion/counter-proposals, but it may be better to put your effort into discovering a better channel for the suggestion. Unfortunately I cannot tell you what that might be, but since you come from an academic/research background, perhaps you ae in a better position to find out :-) Good luck! Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk Beau wrote: Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled łMoreS˛ and łCustomS˛. Upon clicking łMoreS˛ I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking łCustomS˛ I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsoftąs server for retrieval by other users. 2) DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. Adding these two features to the Word References ribbon should satisfy the needs of the vast majority of academics and scientific researchers that currently rely on expensive software such as EndNote. If Microsoft can add these features, it will add an enormous value to Word. Please consider. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...d=b5a5f511-1c0 9-476c-b8c6-49c12acba89c&dg=microsoft.public.word.docmanagemen t |
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#9
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
You can see the number of votes if you expand the thread hover your mouse
over the poster's name. For example the one "Suggestion with Microsoft Response" in this group obtained "18 out of 18 votes". The actual wording says "...found this post helpful" but if you click "I Agree" a "helpful" vote is cast. Unfortunately there was never any commitment to the Suggestion posts from Microsoft. Each product group was supposed to be responsible for reviewing the newsgroups and responding. That never happened. The only reason there are a few "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" is because an MS employee happened to see the post. You may also find it interesting if you note which MS employee provided the majority of the responses. ;-) Incidentally, the one "Suggestion with Microsoft Response" in this newsgroup was originally a test of the Suggestion system. After someone pointed out the test failed (about a year later) an MS response was soon posted. g ~Beth Melton "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... Another factor is that MS's initial commitment was never to respond to suggestions generally but only to respond to those that received enough "votes" to appear important. And, since Peter says he can't see the number of votes each got, it's hard to judge that, but my impression is that suggestions virtually never receive votes. Here, at least, they are mostly met with arguments, workarounds, or pointing out that the requested feature already exists. I've seen some that I might have been willing to vote for if I were logged into the Web site, but since I post via NNTP, I don't have that option. "CyberTaz" wrote in message .. . Wow - Impressive research, Peter :-) One "guess" on my part re the lack of Response from MS is that volume alone prevents replying to suggestions, even though each may well be reviewed & evaluated - but I would imagine that's rather obvious. Another consideration, however, [perhaps supported by the time frames you cited] is that the Discussions groups served as a primary channel of communication earlier on. However, I believe the inclusion of the Feedback mechanism in the software [via Options Resources in 2007, via Help in prior versions] has supplanted the Suggestions method of the Discussions. ... Just some thoughts based on my perceptions of how things seem to have evolved on the Mac side as well. On 2/14/09 6:44 AM, in article , "Peter Jamieson" wrote: Since I have never seen a post from Microsoft in response to any of these "Suggestions for Microsoft" posts, I thought I'd try to find out which posts had received enough votes for Microsoft to respond to them. I looked through all the groups listed "below" the office communities page at http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...s/default.mspx and found the following (if someone knows a page where you can just look up these stats, please let me know). 1. The posts visible through that interface go back to sometime in 2004 (there could be earlier ones- I didn't check every post!) 2. Over 3500 threads have been marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft." I have not tried to group these threads by their start dates, but there are certainly quite a lot of threads dated 2009, 2008 as well as earlier ones. 3. 40 Threads are marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response". None of those threads was initiated later than 2005 (early 2005, AFAICS) 4. Of the 3500 threads, the largest numbers are in a. Outlook (over 43 pages/over 1050 threads) b. Small Business Accounting (c. 30 pages/over 725 threads) c. office (c. 16p/ over 375 threads) d. Excel (c. 14 pages/over 325 threads) 5. Of the 40 threads marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" the largest numbers are in a. Office (19 threads) b. OneNote (11 threads) c. Office Development (2 threads) 6. No other product has more than one thread marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" 7. In the Word groups, over 250 threads are marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft". One thread is marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response", and the initial post in that thread is dated early 2005. 8. I did not find a way to see the number of "votes" for any given response. Of course, a. some suggestions may not actually be "genuine" suggestions - they could be rants etc. b. many suggestions seem to have been "answered" by other participants, e.g. perhaps a workaround was offered, or an explanation whysomething cannot work in a certain way c. just because Microsoft has not posted a response does not mean that they have not seen the suggestion or done anything about it d. for some products, the main discussions may well be considered to be elsewhere e. the large number of suggestions in the OneNote and Small Business Accounting groups may reflect the fact that they are recent products with a lively interest in the feature set. All that said, my conclusions (not a surprise to many, I suspect) are that a. the suggestions process has in effect been defunct for several years b. if you think your suggestion is really worth making, I'm sure there is no harm done posting it here, and you may see useful discussion/counter-proposals, but it may be better to put your effort into discovering a better channel for the suggestion. Unfortunately I cannot tell you what that might be, but since you come from an academic/research background, perhaps you ae in a better position to find out :-) Good luck! Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk Beau wrote: Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled łMoreS˛ and łCustomS˛. Upon clicking łMoreS˛ I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking łCustomS˛ I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsoftąs server for retrieval by other users. 2) DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. Adding these two features to the Word References ribbon should satisfy the needs of the vast majority of academics and scientific researchers that currently rely on expensive software such as EndNote. If Microsoft can add these features, it will add an enormous value to Word. Please consider. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...d=b5a5f511-1c0 9-476c-b8c6-49c12acba89c&dg=microsoft.public.word.docmanagemen t |
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Extending the functionality of Word references/bibliography
FWIW I tried the mouse-hovering thing and it didn't work here -
presumably some configuration difference. But it was interesting to learn that there were as many as 18 votes for this suggestion. Incidentally, the one "Suggestion with Microsoft Response" in this newsgroup was originally a test of the Suggestion system. After someone pointed out the test failed (about a year later) an MS response was soon posted. g Yes, I considered posting a "why not ditch this apparently unused facility" but would ony do so if there was some prospect of it being read by TPTB :-) On Suzanne's comment re. Microsoft's commitment to doing anything, their Help text says the following: "# Every month, Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes" And also " Discussion group participants can vote on a suggestion, and the suggestions with the most votes are bubbled up for review. The suggestions with the highest number of votes will be responded to by someone at Microsoft. " That could of course be interpreted in a number of ways but I think it's fairly clear that it isn't supposed to be just an "if there are /enough/ votes" thing. But thanks to all for their comments - I would consider posting a "why not either revive, or ditch, this apparently unused facility" Suggestion but would ony do so if there was some prospect of it being read by TPTB :-) Perhaps there's another route. Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk Beth Melton wrote: You can see the number of votes if you expand the thread hover your mouse over the poster's name. For example the one "Suggestion with Microsoft Response" in this group obtained "18 out of 18 votes". The actual wording says "...found this post helpful" but if you click "I Agree" a "helpful" vote is cast. Unfortunately there was never any commitment to the Suggestion posts from Microsoft. Each product group was supposed to be responsible for reviewing the newsgroups and responding. That never happened. The only reason there are a few "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" is because an MS employee happened to see the post. You may also find it interesting if you note which MS employee provided the majority of the responses. ;-) Incidentally, the one "Suggestion with Microsoft Response" in this newsgroup was originally a test of the Suggestion system. After someone pointed out the test failed (about a year later) an MS response was soon posted. g ~Beth Melton "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... Another factor is that MS's initial commitment was never to respond to suggestions generally but only to respond to those that received enough "votes" to appear important. And, since Peter says he can't see the number of votes each got, it's hard to judge that, but my impression is that suggestions virtually never receive votes. Here, at least, they are mostly met with arguments, workarounds, or pointing out that the requested feature already exists. I've seen some that I might have been willing to vote for if I were logged into the Web site, but since I post via NNTP, I don't have that option. "CyberTaz" wrote in message .. . Wow - Impressive research, Peter :-) One "guess" on my part re the lack of Response from MS is that volume alone prevents replying to suggestions, even though each may well be reviewed & evaluated - but I would imagine that's rather obvious. Another consideration, however, [perhaps supported by the time frames you cited] is that the Discussions groups served as a primary channel of communication earlier on. However, I believe the inclusion of the Feedback mechanism in the software [via Options Resources in 2007, via Help in prior versions] has supplanted the Suggestions method of the Discussions. ... Just some thoughts based on my perceptions of how things seem to have evolved on the Mac side as well. On 2/14/09 6:44 AM, in article , "Peter Jamieson" wrote: Since I have never seen a post from Microsoft in response to any of these "Suggestions for Microsoft" posts, I thought I'd try to find out which posts had received enough votes for Microsoft to respond to them. I looked through all the groups listed "below" the office communities page at http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...s/default.mspx and found the following (if someone knows a page where you can just look up these stats, please let me know). 1. The posts visible through that interface go back to sometime in 2004 (there could be earlier ones- I didn't check every post!) 2. Over 3500 threads have been marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft." I have not tried to group these threads by their start dates, but there are certainly quite a lot of threads dated 2009, 2008 as well as earlier ones. 3. 40 Threads are marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response". None of those threads was initiated later than 2005 (early 2005, AFAICS) 4. Of the 3500 threads, the largest numbers are in a. Outlook (over 43 pages/over 1050 threads) b. Small Business Accounting (c. 30 pages/over 725 threads) c. office (c. 16p/ over 375 threads) d. Excel (c. 14 pages/over 325 threads) 5. Of the 40 threads marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" the largest numbers are in a. Office (19 threads) b. OneNote (11 threads) c. Office Development (2 threads) 6. No other product has more than one thread marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response" 7. In the Word groups, over 250 threads are marked as "Suggestions for Microsoft". One thread is marked as "Suggestions with Microsoft Response", and the initial post in that thread is dated early 2005. 8. I did not find a way to see the number of "votes" for any given response. Of course, a. some suggestions may not actually be "genuine" suggestions - they could be rants etc. b. many suggestions seem to have been "answered" by other participants, e.g. perhaps a workaround was offered, or an explanation whysomething cannot work in a certain way c. just because Microsoft has not posted a response does not mean that they have not seen the suggestion or done anything about it d. for some products, the main discussions may well be considered to be elsewhere e. the large number of suggestions in the OneNote and Small Business Accounting groups may reflect the fact that they are recent products with a lively interest in the feature set. All that said, my conclusions (not a surprise to many, I suspect) are that a. the suggestions process has in effect been defunct for several years b. if you think your suggestion is really worth making, I'm sure there is no harm done posting it here, and you may see useful discussion/counter-proposals, but it may be better to put your effort into discovering a better channel for the suggestion. Unfortunately I cannot tell you what that might be, but since you come from an academic/research background, perhaps you ae in a better position to find out :-) Good luck! Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk Beau wrote: Myself and many other researchers and academics worldwide would very much like to see the functionality of Word 2007's References function extended to the point where we could dispense with third party citation software such as EndNote and the like. This could be accomplished by adding the following features to the Word References ribbon: 1) CUSTOM STYLES. Add an easy, intuitive way to create custom citation and reference styles. Upon opening the styles drop-down menu I should see entries at the bottom entitled łMoreS˛ and łCustomS˛. Upon clicking łMoreS˛ I should be taken to a Microsoft website which has a very large list of (user contributed?) citation/reference styles from different publications and journals which are freely available for download. When I download a style it should automatically be added to the Styles drop-down menu in Word. Upon clicking łCustomS˛ I should be presented with a new interface which enables me to define completely (down to the last period and space) a custom style, which can be saved and optionally uploaded to Microsoftąs server for retrieval by other users. 2) DATABASE CONNECTION. A button should added to the References ribbon which, when clicked, opens a new interface which enables me to seamlessly connect to one of a number of (both preset and user-definable) databases (e.g., PubMed). I should be able to enter search terms to retrieve references which can then be saved to a source file and inserted into my document. Adding these two features to the Word References ribbon should satisfy the needs of the vast majority of academics and scientific researchers that currently rely on expensive software such as EndNote. If Microsoft can add these features, it will add an enormous value to Word. Please consider. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...d=b5a5f511-1c0 9-476c-b8c6-49c12acba89c&dg=microsoft.public.word.docmanagemen t |
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