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#41
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
Irony is famously dangerous to use in e-mail and online discussions where
people do not know each other and are not seeing each other face to face, and it often leads to misunderstandings. The writer may think that his or her comment is obviously ironic, but it may not appear that way to others. This is especially the case when the comment is a criticism or attack. Friends can kid each other this way because they know they're kidding. With strangers it's different. To say to someone, a complete stranger, "You might want to go in to have your obsessive-compulsive levels checked," and then add the emoticon indicating, "See, I didn't mean it, so don't hold me accountable for what I just said," is not nice. I have been attacked at this forum for attacking Word 2007. But I've never used personally insulting language about anyone, which certain people in this forum such as Greg have been doing. And now I suppose I'll be attacked for what I just said. "LurfysMa" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:46:52 -0400, "Larry" wrote: This has been very lively discussion. I thank LurfysMa for bravely taking my side against the massed might of the MVPs, though at the last moment she (and I assume from the name it's a she) seems to have changed her mind, though maybe she's being ironic, on finding out that I still use Word 97. But if she's not being ironic but means it, that's pretty funny, given that she herself uses Word 2000. Geez, Larry, maybe your detractors are right. Yes, I was kidding you and being ironic. Did you need to ask? You might want to go in to have your obsessive-compulsive levels checked. ;-) BTW: We are upgrading all of our computers soon and will be installing Office 2007. That's why your post caught my eye. I'll let you know if I agree with your opinion of the interface. Even if I like it, I still consider MS arrogant and dismissive of the needs of many users. It's primary customers are corporations who buy thousands of licenses. This NG is one way MS gets a lot of hard-working folks to work for free answering questions about the vagaries of their products. If they paid the MVPs even half of what they are worth, many of them could quit their day jobs. -- Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000 |
#42
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
Hi Beth,
Some may see it that way, but for me, the newsgroups help increase my knowledge of the applications.You see, the newsgroups are a two-way street. I learn something new every day, either by reading advice offered by others or researching a question, and that makes me more of an asset in my profession. There's only so much you can learn on your own. :-) Exactly :-) Plus, I learn about what concerns people and how different people see problems from other angles. Cindy Meister INTER-Solutions, Switzerland http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005) http://www.word.mvps.org This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-) |
#43
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
That might be me to whom you are referring.
-- Hope this helps. Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my services on a paid consulting basis. Doug Robbins - Word MVP "Beth Melton" wrote in message ... I'm glad you posted this, Greg. :-) Until now I was feeling like the only MVP who actually supports the new version. (I know there are a few others but they're on the soft-spoken side. ;-) ) Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for assistance by email can not be acknowledged. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beth Melton "Greg Maxey" wrote in message ... Larry, I have read many of your posts and your disappointment with Word2007 is clearly evident. To be blunt you are beginning to sound like a broken record. I am not thrilled by it either, but there are many features that I like and the more I use it my initial ire continues to diminish. I have spent a little time playing with RibbonX custimaztion and while I am far from proficient, I have been able to create some custom tabs and I am actually quite satisfied with the result. I sent you an e-mail (or tried) offering to send you a sample document with some simple ribbon cusotomizations. I will still do that if you are interested. Do you have a garage? If I recall correctly, Microsoft was born in a garage. Why don't you design a word processing application in your garage or similiar small space that satisfies all of your tastes and requirement and market it? If you pull it off and there really are millions of users and thousands of companies that feel the same as you then your fortune is made. -- Greg Maxey/Word MVP See: http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/word_tips.htm For some helpful tips using Word. Larry wrote: Here's hoping that millions of users and thousands of companies react as you have done, since apparently that is the only thing that will persuade the people at Microsoft what a hideous catastrophe Word 2007 is. Larry "CS Hayes" wrote in message ... FYI again I am not very interested in old tool bars for new programs. I have been using 2007 trial and sadly I'm not impressed. I do understand that I will have to learn this software to be competitive in todays workforce but I don't like it. I've spent years learning how to manipulate software via menus and now I have to relearn how to do it via ribbons (which is a fancy word for "over sized tool bar.") I'm going to go to 2003 on my system once the trial runs out. Here is an interesting idea: since someone can program a new tool bar for 2007 could someone program an interface for language compatibility with .NET for VB6? I think this would be something a lot of people would be interested in. -- Chris Hayes Still a beginner (only 12 years) "Cindy M." wrote: Hi Chris, And there's a more sophisticated tool that's just come out here. It includes what the Chinese is offering (the "Lite" version), plus one that lets you customize the menus, create your own toolbars, and add your own macros and AutoText. The toolbar can also be floated. What's more, you can save each set of customizations - including where the toolbars are located - in individual documents. It costs 19.95 for a single license, with discounts for volume licenses. And you can get 5% off by using the coupon code MVPCINDY http://www.toolbartoggle.com For those of you who must have the drop down menus fear no more. A chinese developer has created an Add In for Office and it's $29.00 (those folks are becoming quite the capitalists...) http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130635/article.html Where there's a need there's a dollar. Cindy Meister INTER-Solutions, Switzerland http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005) http://www.word.mvps.org This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-) |
#44
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
When you try 2007, try the Toolbar Toggle addin.
-- Hope this helps. Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my services on a paid consulting basis. Doug Robbins - Word MVP "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... We were repeatedly told that there was no satisfactory way to provide a "Classic" view for Word 2007, certainly not if the product was to meet its release date. The fact that so far no add-in that attempts to provide that view is totally satisfactory should be proof of this. Word 2003 is and will continue to be fully supported for several more versions; Word 97 is currently out of support and I believe Word 2000 as well. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so all may benefit. "LurfysMa" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:48:48 -0500, "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: I suspect that the next version of Word may take some "backward" steps to accommodate those who were not ready for it. Holding fast with Word 2003 now and then upgrading to Word 14 may be the best plan. If that happens, then Larry has a much bigger complaint. If they were (or are) going to do it, they should have (a) done it now or (b) announced that they had this backup plan and 2003 would be fully supported until it was ready. Now I am getting madder. -- Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000 |
#45
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
Oh, this is a very good point! Bravo!
Microsoft has just gotten to the place where they "feel" and "can" do what they want without regard to the user (especially the current users.) I've been a strong MS user for years. I remember installing Office 95 with 3 3/4" floppys. I was barking at others to look at Word and not Word Perfect. The problem is no one is coming up with a viable competetive product. The solid base Microsoft has built with it's tools and methods gives them clout to do what they want. Microsoft kicking itself in the rear with a way off base new product (which has plenty of new and fun tools) does not meet the current user base. This is the competitions opportunity to come up with a viable new option (highly unlikely though.) -- Chris Hayes Still a beginner (only 12 years) [fyi, you can email me by getting rid of the British Comedian''s name who wrote that song about "Spam"] "LurfysMa" wrote: On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:50:15 -0500, "Beth Melton" wrote: The "cheap shot", Larry, is spending a limited amount of time using Word 2007, forming quick and non-researched opinions, and then criticizing it every chance you get. I'm sure if I spent 5 to 10 minutes using "Larry's Word", and if I were one to form quick and non-researched opinions, I'd think it was hideous, a catastrophe, and a monstrosity - all because I haven't taken the time to use it. What you say takes months to learn really doesn't take that long at all. Now, I spent months learning about the new features (which is true of any new version), but I adapted to the UI fairly quickly. FWIW, I've been using the Office applications, with the menus/toolbars, since 1985, starting with Excel on a Mac. I went from using SuperCalc and WordStar with the slash commands and I couldn't imagine how using a mouse would help me work faster than my trusty keyboard navigation! But once I got the hang of using a mouse I never looked back. The UI you love was designed for 1989, just as the slash command nagivation was designed for early computer applications. A lot has changed since then and the programs outgrew the menu/toolbar system. I'm surprised they didn't do this long ago. I think the bottom line is, if you prefer to drive your 1950 Chevy with no air conditioning, manual steering, manual transmission, and drum brakes, then by all means, keep driving it. I prefer to drive my new convertible with air conditioning, automatic steering, split shift transmission (can switch to automatic or manual), anti-lock brakes, heated leather seats, GPS, and 4-disc CD changer. I like my car and I'm tired of someone merely kicking the tires and making assumptions about it. Another point completely missed. I never heard Larry tell you or Greg or anyone else not to use the new interface. He just said that he hates it and hates that HE is forced to use it or stay with an obsolete version. Your car analogy is off the mark. Your shiny new car is 100% compatible with existing roads, maps, gas stations, DMV procedures, etc. When you bought it, you didn't need more than 5 minutes of training to be able to drive away. When you upgraded, you didn't need to learn new maps, build new roads, go back to driver's school, take a new driver's test (unless you bought a bus), or anything. If your new car has a fancy GPS system, or a satellite uplink, or a wet bar, or a waterbed, it didn't affect your ability to drive down the road. And, both you and Larry can drive down the same road at the same time without either of you making any adjustments for each other. Larry has a valid point. MS tends to make changes because they can. I guarantee you, that Google Office is going to change that and I'm cheering for Google -- until they become the arrogant 8 million pound gorilla and start pushing people and customers around. It took about 60 years for TJ Watson's lean, mean, responsive company to become ossified and arrogant and get clipped my Microsoft. It's now been about 20 years. MS is getting bloated and slow. They weathered the Netscape scare just like IBM did early competitors by crushing them. So far the open source folks (and other grass roots efforts) have not quite got it together. But Google may just do to MS after 30 years what MS did to IBM after 60. In the meantime, Larry, keep complaining. Even if I don't agree with you. I'll just tune you out. ;-) -- Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000 |
#46
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
You have to wonder at the mind set of some of our software giants. Lotus
used to have a seriously good word processor - AmiPro - which was easier to use than Word and did just about everything that a user might reasonably need; and Lotus was then highly regarded, but they screwed it up and introduced the ridiculous Word Pro as a replacement. Maybe the former Lotus destroyers now work for Microsoft? -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Chris Hayes wrote: Oh, this is a very good point! Bravo! Microsoft has just gotten to the place where they "feel" and "can" do what they want without regard to the user (especially the current users.) I've been a strong MS user for years. I remember installing Office 95 with 3 3/4" floppys. I was barking at others to look at Word and not Word Perfect. The problem is no one is coming up with a viable competetive product. The solid base Microsoft has built with it's tools and methods gives them clout to do what they want. Microsoft kicking itself in the rear with a way off base new product (which has plenty of new and fun tools) does not meet the current user base. This is the competitions opportunity to come up with a viable new option (highly unlikely though.) On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 17:50:15 -0500, "Beth Melton" wrote: The "cheap shot", Larry, is spending a limited amount of time using Word 2007, forming quick and non-researched opinions, and then criticizing it every chance you get. I'm sure if I spent 5 to 10 minutes using "Larry's Word", and if I were one to form quick and non-researched opinions, I'd think it was hideous, a catastrophe, and a monstrosity - all because I haven't taken the time to use it. What you say takes months to learn really doesn't take that long at all. Now, I spent months learning about the new features (which is true of any new version), but I adapted to the UI fairly quickly. FWIW, I've been using the Office applications, with the menus/toolbars, since 1985, starting with Excel on a Mac. I went from using SuperCalc and WordStar with the slash commands and I couldn't imagine how using a mouse would help me work faster than my trusty keyboard navigation! But once I got the hang of using a mouse I never looked back. The UI you love was designed for 1989, just as the slash command nagivation was designed for early computer applications. A lot has changed since then and the programs outgrew the menu/toolbar system. I'm surprised they didn't do this long ago. I think the bottom line is, if you prefer to drive your 1950 Chevy with no air conditioning, manual steering, manual transmission, and drum brakes, then by all means, keep driving it. I prefer to drive my new convertible with air conditioning, automatic steering, split shift transmission (can switch to automatic or manual), anti-lock brakes, heated leather seats, GPS, and 4-disc CD changer. I like my car and I'm tired of someone merely kicking the tires and making assumptions about it. Another point completely missed. I never heard Larry tell you or Greg or anyone else not to use the new interface. He just said that he hates it and hates that HE is forced to use it or stay with an obsolete version. Your car analogy is off the mark. Your shiny new car is 100% compatible with existing roads, maps, gas stations, DMV procedures, etc. When you bought it, you didn't need more than 5 minutes of training to be able to drive away. When you upgraded, you didn't need to learn new maps, build new roads, go back to driver's school, take a new driver's test (unless you bought a bus), or anything. If your new car has a fancy GPS system, or a satellite uplink, or a wet bar, or a waterbed, it didn't affect your ability to drive down the road. And, both you and Larry can drive down the same road at the same time without either of you making any adjustments for each other. Larry has a valid point. MS tends to make changes because they can. I guarantee you, that Google Office is going to change that and I'm cheering for Google -- until they become the arrogant 8 million pound gorilla and start pushing people and customers around. It took about 60 years for TJ Watson's lean, mean, responsive company to become ossified and arrogant and get clipped my Microsoft. It's now been about 20 years. MS is getting bloated and slow. They weathered the Netscape scare just like IBM did early competitors by crushing them. So far the open source folks (and other grass roots efforts) have not quite got it together. But Google may just do to MS after 30 years what MS did to IBM after 60. In the meantime, Larry, keep complaining. Even if I don't agree with you. I'll just tune you out. ;-) -- Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000 |
#47
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
On Thu, 3 May 2007 19:27:01 -0700, Chris Hayes
wrote: Oh, this is a very good point! Bravo! Microsoft has just gotten to the place where they "feel" and "can" do what they want without regard to the user (especially the current users.) I've been a strong MS user for years. I remember installing Office 95 with 3 3/4" floppys. I was barking at others to look at Word and not Word Perfect. The problem is no one is coming up with a viable competetive product. Hardly. Google office (docs & spreadsheets) is a very real threat to M$FT. Nothing to install. Ever. No migration. No upgrades. No licensing. Free. Documents can be accessed from any PC anywhere in the world. Nothing to take with you. Easily shared documents. There are problems, of course. They have your data and there are those ads. Millions and millions of ads. The solid base Microsoft has built with it's tools and methods gives them clout to do what they want. Microsoft kicking itself in the rear with a way off base new product (which has plenty of new and fun tools) does not meet the current user base. This is the competitions opportunity to come up with a viable new option (highly unlikely though.) Based on what? IBM looked totally invincible for 50-60 years. Even faced multiple anti-trust & monopoly actions. Then a college dropout stole an OS and knocked them of their pedestal. Now, less than 20 years later, Google is such a threat that M$FT is trying to buy Yahoo to stay competitive. Software is not like any busioness ever. The barriers to entry are close to zero and the cost of distribution is getting close to zero, too. Stay tuned. -- Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000 |
#48
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
The problem for MS (as I see it) is that Google was there first and it works
brilliantly as a search tool. So millions of us have Google set as a home page and use it all the time. Even if (as MS suggests) MSN search is as good as Google, why would the Goggle-based users swap to MSN when they already have a service that they are more than comfortable using. Buying Yahoo is a mistake because that won't make Google users switch to MSN and it may alienate some (anti-MS) Yahoo users and force them over to Google. To get users to switch, MSN needs a significant lead in search or Google screws up. The only advantage I have found with MSN is that the MSN-Encarta World Map is significantly better for route planning than Google Maps for Eastern Europe and Asia: it isn't significant an advantage to stop me using Google as my home page though. Terry Farrell "LurfysMa" wrote in message ... On Thu, 3 May 2007 19:27:01 -0700, Chris Hayes wrote: Oh, this is a very good point! Bravo! Microsoft has just gotten to the place where they "feel" and "can" do what they want without regard to the user (especially the current users.) I've been a strong MS user for years. I remember installing Office 95 with 3 3/4" floppys. I was barking at others to look at Word and not Word Perfect. The problem is no one is coming up with a viable competetive product. Hardly. Google office (docs & spreadsheets) is a very real threat to M$FT. Nothing to install. Ever. No migration. No upgrades. No licensing. Free. Documents can be accessed from any PC anywhere in the world. Nothing to take with you. Easily shared documents. There are problems, of course. They have your data and there are those ads. Millions and millions of ads. The solid base Microsoft has built with it's tools and methods gives them clout to do what they want. Microsoft kicking itself in the rear with a way off base new product (which has plenty of new and fun tools) does not meet the current user base. This is the competitions opportunity to come up with a viable new option (highly unlikely though.) Based on what? IBM looked totally invincible for 50-60 years. Even faced multiple anti-trust & monopoly actions. Then a college dropout stole an OS and knocked them of their pedestal. Now, less than 20 years later, Google is such a threat that M$FT is trying to buy Yahoo to stay competitive. Software is not like any busioness ever. The barriers to entry are close to zero and the cost of distribution is getting close to zero, too. Stay tuned. -- Running Word 2000 SP-3 on Windows 2000 |
#49
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
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FYI Word 2007 users who must have menus
"Chris Hayes" wrote in message
... The problem is no one is coming up with a viable competetive product. If you don't need Outlook, then Open Office is a VERY viable competitive product.... |
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