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#1
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
Hello,
I have a slight problem with formatting in a document. The document was originally created in Word 2003. One paragraph has a style with Verdana 8,5 pt and font color 80% grey. The style is based on Normal style. Direct formatting (Times New Roman, 11 pt) has been applied to the paragraph. When the document is viewed in Word 2003 there are no problems, and the same when it's viewed in Word 2007 compatibility mode. If the document is saved as docx from Word 2003 and opened, converted and saved in 2007, still no problems. But: When the document is opened as doc in Word 2007, converted and saved as docx, the document seems fine until it is closed and reopened in Word 2007 or 2003. Then the paragraph has 10,5pt character spacing applied! I have also tested by using the format painter: open the original document in Word 2003, select the paragraph, click the format painter, switch to Word 2007 and click and drag over any text. The same thing happens (character spacing is applied). I have used reveal formatting in both 2003 and 2007 and there is nothing indicating any character spacing. I have also checked the normal style and the style used in the paragraph. This has been tested on three different machines, on both Vista and XP with all service packs and updates. Any suggestions at all about why this is happening? I know how to solve it on a document to document basis but I'm trying to figure out the underlying problem here. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
#2
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
Modify your Normal style so the space between paragraphs is 0 (or whatever you want) and the line spacing is single (instead of 1.15). I suspect that as long as the file is in compatibility mode, the old Normal.dot is attached, but that when it is converted to Word2007, Normal.dotm or dotx is attached and that, on first close or open, the template styles are updated. They probably need to do that to enable features such as themes, which work only with certain font designations (such as +Body for text ). The default line spacing in Normal.dotm or x is looser that that in Normal.dot. I don't like the new settings, so I've changed normal.dotm and the default settings to what I want. I change settings in templates and documents that I create for clients. Maddening problem, easy fix, I think. BTW, here's the MS Office Team's blog on the subject: http://blogs.msdn.com/microsoft_offi...an-anyway.aspx "Fredrik E. Nilsen" wrote: Hello, I have a slight problem with formatting in a document. The document was originally created in Word 2003. One paragraph has a style with Verdana 8,5 pt and font color 80% grey. The style is based on Normal style. Direct formatting (Times New Roman, 11 pt) has been applied to the paragraph. When the document is viewed in Word 2003 there are no problems, and the same when it's viewed in Word 2007 compatibility mode. If the document is saved as docx from Word 2003 and opened, converted and saved in 2007, still no problems. But: When the document is opened as doc in Word 2007, converted and saved as docx, the document seems fine until it is closed and reopened in Word 2007 or 2003. Then the paragraph has 10,5pt character spacing applied! I have also tested by using the format painter: open the original document in Word 2003, select the paragraph, click the format painter, switch to Word 2007 and click and drag over any text. The same thing happens (character spacing is applied). I have used reveal formatting in both 2003 and 2007 and there is nothing indicating any character spacing. I have also checked the normal style and the style used in the paragraph. This has been tested on three different machines, on both Vista and XP with all service packs and updates. Any suggestions at all about why this is happening? I know how to solve it on a document to document basis but I'm trying to figure out the underlying problem here. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
#3
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:40:04 -0700, PamC
wrote: Modify your Normal style so the space between paragraphs is 0 (or whatever you want) and the line spacing is single (instead of 1.15). I suspect that as long as the file is in compatibility mode, the old Normal.dot is attached, but that when it is converted to Word2007, Normal.dotm or dotx is attached and that, on first close or open, the template styles are updated. They probably need to do that to enable features such as themes, which work only with certain font designations (such as +Body for text ). The default line spacing in Normal.dotm or x is looser that that in Normal.dot. I don't like the new settings, so I've changed normal.dotm and the default settings to what I want. I change settings in templates and documents that I create for clients. Maddening problem, easy fix, I think. BTW, here's the MS Office Team's blog on the subject: Thanks for your reply but I think you misread my question. The problem was character spacing, not paragraph or line spacing. After some more testing I have found out that one of the underlying styles has a character spacing of 10,5 pt and that explains where the spacing is coming from. What I don't understand is: the character spacing is overriden by direct formatting in 2003 but when opened, converted, saved, closed, re-opened in 2007, the character spacing is still there. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
#4
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
Hi Fredrik,
If I'm following you correctly - 1. You're starting in Word 2003 using the default Word 2003 normal style with Times New Roman 12 pt. 2. You have a paragraph style based on Normal with the only change being using Verdana 8.5 at grey 80% that you apply to a full paragraph. (I created a style and saved it in the document, but not in the template). 3. You then applying to the full paragraph Times New Roman font, then save the document as both .doc and .docx from Word 2007. 4. You then open the Word 2003 .doc file in Word 2007, use Office Button=Convert, use Shift+F1 to pull up reveal formatting and check for anomolies, and also in Font=Launcher=Character Spacing then save as a docx. 5. Close the new .docx file, reopen it, use Shift F1 again and check in Reveal Formatting and under Font=Launcher=Character spacing and now you're seeing character spacing other than 'Normal' or the font size on the Ribbon is showing 10.5 rather than 11pt? If so, I'm not able to reproduce this using those steps, whether reopening the document in Word 2003 or Word 2007. To generate the text for the document I started with a blank document and typed =rand(30,5) {Enter key} Are you using both Word 2003 and Word 2007 on the same computer and have both open at the same time (trying to follow your use of Format Painter). If so, are you storing the Normal.dot (Word 2003) and Normal.dotm (Word 2007) templates in the same template folder? Do you have Service Pack 1 applied to Office 2007? Are both Office 2003 and Office 2007 English language editions? Are the measurement units on your PC set to metric and the paper size set to convert between letter and A4 size automatically? Do both Word 2003 and Word 2007 have the same default printer selected? Do you have any add-ins running in Word? ============== "Fredrik E. Nilsen" wrote in message ... Hello, I have a slight problem with formatting in a document. The document was originally created in Word 2003. One paragraph has a style with Verdana 8,5 pt and font color 80% grey. The style is based on Normal style. Direct formatting (Times New Roman, 11 pt) has been applied to the paragraph. When the document is viewed in Word 2003 there are no problems, and the same when it's viewed in Word 2007 compatibility mode. If the document is saved as docx from Word 2003 and opened, converted and saved in 2007, still no problems. But: When the document is opened as doc in Word 2007, converted and saved as docx, the document seems fine until it is closed and reopened in Word 2007 or 2003. Then the paragraph has 10,5pt character spacing applied! I have also tested by using the format painter: open the original document in Word 2003, select the paragraph, click the format painter, switch to Word 2007 and click and drag over any text. The same thing happens (character spacing is applied). I have used reveal formatting in both 2003 and 2007 and there is nothing indicating any character spacing. I have also checked the normal style and the style used in the paragraph. This has been tested on three different machines, on both Vista and XP with all service packs and updates. Any suggestions at all about why this is happening? I know how to solve it on a document to document basis but I'm trying to figure out the underlying problem here. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#5
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
Apologies. I broke a major rule of advice giving: Before you do, listen and
pay attention. --I did notice that you said character spacing.-- One of other ones is, of course, don't speculate. Glad you figured it out for yourself. Regards, Pam "Fredrik E. Nilsen" wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:40:04 -0700, PamC wrote: Modify your Normal style so the space between paragraphs is 0 (or whatever you want) and the line spacing is single (instead of 1.15). I suspect that as long as the file is in compatibility mode, the old Normal.dot is attached, but that when it is converted to Word2007, Normal.dotm or dotx is attached and that, on first close or open, the template styles are updated. They probably need to do that to enable features such as themes, which work only with certain font designations (such as +Body for text ). The default line spacing in Normal.dotm or x is looser that that in Normal.dot. I don't like the new settings, so I've changed normal.dotm and the default settings to what I want. I change settings in templates and documents that I create for clients. Maddening problem, easy fix, I think. BTW, here's the MS Office Team's blog on the subject: Thanks for your reply but I think you misread my question. The problem was character spacing, not paragraph or line spacing. After some more testing I have found out that one of the underlying styles has a character spacing of 10,5 pt and that explains where the spacing is coming from. What I don't understand is: the character spacing is overriden by direct formatting in 2003 but when opened, converted, saved, closed, re-opened in 2007, the character spacing is still there. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
#6
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:15:08 -0700, "Bob Buckland ?:-\)"
75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote: Hi Fredrik, If I'm following you correctly - 1. You're starting in Word 2003 using the default Word 2003 normal style with Times New Roman 12 pt. That is correct. 2. You have a paragraph style based on Normal with the only change being using Verdana 8.5 at grey 80% that you apply to a full paragraph. (I created a style and saved it in the document, but not in the template). I have narrowed it down a bit: I have one single paragraph (I deleted all the other paragraphs) that uses the Normal paragraph style. There is also two character styles, one with Verdana 8,5 80 % gray (based on the default paragraph font) and one with Times New Roman 11pt (based on the previus character style) applied to the text. No sign of any character spacing in any of the styles. These styles are obviously results of text being copied and pasted from at different document. In the full document there is one style with 10,5 character spacing but it is removed in the document I'm working on now. 3. You then applying to the full paragraph Times New Roman font, then save the document as both .doc and .docx from Word 2007. I just save the document as doc in Word 2003. 4. You then open the Word 2003 .doc file in Word 2007, use Office Button=Convert, use Shift+F1 to pull up reveal formatting and check for anomolies, and also in Font=Launcher=Character Spacing then save as a docx. That is correct. No signs of any character spacing in any of the styles or elsewhere. 5. Close the new .docx file, reopen it, use Shift F1 again and check in Reveal Formatting and under Font=Launcher=Character spacing and now you're seeing character spacing other than 'Normal' or the font size on the Ribbon is showing 10.5 rather than 11pt? I close the document and re-open it. Now the characterspacing is 10,5 in the paragraph. If I check in Reveal formatting, it says characterspacing 10,5. If I check the characterstyles, it says characterspacing 10,5 If so, I'm not able to reproduce this using those steps, whether reopening the document in Word 2003 or Word 2007. To generate the text for the document I started with a blank document and typed =rand(30,5) {Enter key} I have tried to reproduce it my self but no luck so far. There is obviously something inherited from text that has been pasted from a different document. The thing I don't understand is that the character spacing is supressed by direct formatting in 2003 but not in 2007. One thing I discovered just now: If I save the document as docx from Word 2003, open it in 2007, convert, save and re-open, the problem is gone. It only happens when it is opened as doc in 2007 and converted. Are you using both Word 2003 and Word 2007 on the same computer and have both open at the same time (trying to follow your use of Format Painter). If so, are you storing the Normal.dot (Word 2003) and Normal.dotm (Word 2007) templates in the same template folder? Do you have Service Pack 1 applied to Office 2007? Are both Office 2003 and Office 2007 English language editions? Are the measurement units on your PC set to metric and the paper size set to convert between letter and A4 size automatically? Do both Word 2003 and Word 2007 have the same default printer selected? Do you have any add-ins running in Word? It has been tested on three different computers, with both English and Norwegian language editions. It has been tested on both Vista and XP. All service packs are installed and noe add-ins are running. The document can be made available if anyone wants to look at it. Thanks for helping out. We're trying to figure out what kind of problems we can run into when converting documents to OOXML, but this seems more like a bug. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
#7
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
Hi Fredrik,
Yes, it would be of interest to see that document if you have a link to it. If in Word 2003 you turn on Tools=Options=Edit 'Keep track of formatting' and place the cursor in the text with the stacked formatting what does the Style area read in the Formatting toolbar? If I understand correctly then the base style has two character styles applied, rather than an alternate paragraph style based on normal plus direct formatting of Times New Roman 11pt ? Your original message mentioned that the style was based on Normal paragraph style, which would tend to indicate that the Verdana+color style was also a paragraph style (else the 'based on' box when creating a style would allow a choice of attributes rather than a style). If you open the Modify style dialog for each of the character styles what does the definition read for each please? Is one character style applied to the full paragraph and another to the other part or ??? Normally applying one character style on top of another character style would replace the first if both were based on the same attribute of the paragraph style. In Word 2007 when you bring up the styles pane (launcher at the bottom of Home=Styles group) is the box for 'Disable Linked Styles' checked? ================= "Fredrik E. Nilsen" wrote in message ... I have narrowed it down a bit: I have one single paragraph (I deleted all the other paragraphs) that uses the Normal paragraph style. There is also two character styles, one with Verdana 8,5 80 % gray (based on the default paragraph font) and one with Times New Roman 11pt (based on the previus character style) applied to the text. No sign of any character spacing in any of the styles. These styles are obviously results of text being copied and pasted from at different document. In the full document there is one style with 10,5 character spacing but it is removed in the document I'm working on now. [snip] I have tried to reproduce it my self but no luck so far. There is obviously something inherited from text that has been pasted from a different document. The thing I don't understand is that the character spacing is supressed by direct formatting in 2003 but not in 2007. [snip] One thing I discovered just now: If I save the document as docx from Word 2003, open it in 2007, convert, save and re-open, the problem is gone. It only happens when it is opened as doc in 2007 and converted.It has been tested on three different computers, with both English and Norwegian language editions. It has been tested on both Vista and XP. All service packs are installed and noe add-ins are running. The document can be made available if anyone wants to look at it. Thanks for helping out. We're trying to figure out what kind of problems we can run into when converting documents to OOXML, but this seems more like a bug. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#8
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 06:36:02 -0700, "Bob Buckland ?:-\)"
75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote: Hi Fredrik, Yes, it would be of interest to see that document if you have a link to it. Here it is: http://www.enilsen.com/test_doc.doc If in Word 2003 you turn on Tools=Options=Edit 'Keep track of formatting' and place the cursor in the text with the stacked formatting what does the Style area read in the Formatting toolbar? It says title_large1+Times New Roman, 11 pt, not bold. If I understand correctly then the base style has two character styles applied, rather than an alternate paragraph style based on normal plus direct formatting of Times New Roman 11pt ? That is correct. Your original message mentioned that the style was based on Normal paragraph style, which would tend to indicate that the Verdana+color style was also a paragraph style (else the 'based on' box when creating a style would allow a choice of attributes rather than a style). If you open the Modify style dialog for each of the character styles what does the definition read for each please? In the original document it seemed like there was a paragraph style based on the normal style, and a character style on top of that. I have deleted all other paragraphs and all styles not in use. The title_large1 style is a character style, as is title_large1+Times New Roman 11 pt, not bold. The first style says: Default paragraph font + Font: Verdana, 9pt, bold, 80 % grey. The style is based on the default paragraph font. The second style says: title_large1+Times New Roman, 11 pt, not bold, the same as in the Style dropdown on the formatting toolbar. The style is based on title_large1. Is one character style applied to the full paragraph and another to the other part or ??? Normally applying one character style on top of another character style would replace the first if both were based on the same attribute of the paragraph style. It seems like both character styles is applied to the full paragraph. If I go to the Style task pane, rightclick any of the styles (Normal or the two character styles) and choose Select all 1 instances, the full paragraph is selected. In Word 2007 when you bring up the styles pane (launcher at the bottom of Home=Styles group) is the box for 'Disable Linked Styles' checked? I have tried with this checked and unchecked, no difference. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
#9
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 16:37:32 +0100, Fredrik E. Nilsen
wrote: The first style says: Default paragraph font + Font: Verdana, 9pt, bold, 80 % grey. The style is based on the default paragraph font. The second style says: title_large1+Times New Roman, 11 pt, not bold, the same as in the Style dropdown on the formatting toolbar. The style is based on title_large1. Just a quick followup to clarify. The first style is a character style, the second is direct formatting. I have done some more testing btw. I've copied the paragraph and pasted it into a new Word 2003 document. In the new document, the text is formatted with the Verdana 9pt etc. style, no sign of any character spacing in the style. I save the document, open it in 2007, convert it, save, close and re-open. Then the character spacing is applied. I also tried to copy the paragraph from the 2003 document and paste it in a new Word 2007 document. The text gets the Verdana 9pt formatting in the new document., but no character spacing. I open the style task pane and the style used is shown with character spacing in the preview! If I right click the style and select Modify, it says Font: Verdana 9pt, Bold, 80% grey, Expanded by 10,5 pt, based on default paragraph font. If I open the style inspector it says: Paragraph formatting: Normal, plus none; Text level formatting: Title_large1 (the name of the character style), plus Not bold, Not expanded by/condensed by. The character spacing is not applied when I save the document, close and re-open it. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
#10
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:39:33 +0100, Fredrik E. Nilsen
wrote: Any one who can confirm this behaviour and maybe suggest a solution? I'm trying to figure out problems that may occur when converting documents from the binary formats to OOXML and this problem is a real show-stopper. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
#11
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Formatting changed when converted in Word 2007
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:55:01 +0100, Fredrik E. Nilsen
wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:39:33 +0100, Fredrik E. Nilsen wrote: Any one who can confirm this behaviour and maybe suggest a solution? I'm trying to figure out problems that may occur when converting documents from the binary formats to OOXML and this problem is a real show-stopper. I'm still trying to figure out the cause of the problem described here. I would appreciate any information about this. -- Fredrik E. Nilsen http://fenilsen.wordpress.com |
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