[lorraine]

Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and
now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this???

it looks like a backwards P

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

See http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/NonPrintChars.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

"Lorraine" wrote in message
...
Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and
now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this???

it looks like a backwards P

[grammatim[_2_]]

If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

On Jan 31, 9:40*pm, Lorraine
wrote:
Hi, *I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and
now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this???

it looks like a backwards P

[Graham Mayor]

grammatim wrote:
If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

Most users can work quite happily without displaying non-printing characters
all the time, and this is the default setting for Word. Of course there are
times when it is useful to display the characters, but to suggest that you
shouldn't turn them off is ridiculous. If you like to see them continuously
then that's fine for you, but I certainly would not want to see them all the
time - and neither I suggest would most people.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org

[grammatim[_2_]]

If everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly (and tab
characters; there's little point to the others), we'd have an awful
lot fewer questions about "extra blank pages" and "extra space" and
such.

On Feb 1, 1:52*am, "Graham Mayor" wrote:
grammatim wrote:
If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

Most users can work quite happily without displaying non-printing characters
all the time, and this is the default setting for Word. Of course there are
times when it is useful to display the characters, but to suggest that you
shouldn't turn them off is ridiculous. If you like to see them continuously
then that's fine for you, but I certainly would not want to see them all the
time - and neither I suggest would most people.

--

Graham Mayor - *Word MVP

My web sitewww.gmayor.com
Word MVP web sitehttp://word.mvps.org

[Graham Mayor]

No argument there, but they don't need to be on all the time.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



grammatim wrote:
If everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly (and tab
characters; there's little point to the others), we'd have an awful
lot fewer questions about "extra blank pages" and "extra space" and
such.

On Feb 1, 1:52 am, "Graham Mayor" wrote:
grammatim wrote:
If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

Most users can work quite happily without displaying non-printing
characters all the time, and this is the default setting for Word.
Of course there are times when it is useful to display the
characters, but to suggest that you shouldn't turn them off is
ridiculous. If you like to see them continuously then that's fine
for you, but I certainly would not want to see them all the time -
and neither I suggest would most people.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web sitewww.gmayor.com
Word MVP web sitehttp://word.mvps.org

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It's entirely a matter of taste and habit. I do keep them displayed all the
time, and I'm used to them. I suspect most people who send me documents
would be shocked to see how mess they look on my system, though.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
No argument there, but they don't need to be on all the time.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



grammatim wrote:
If everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly (and tab
characters; there's little point to the others), we'd have an awful
lot fewer questions about "extra blank pages" and "extra space" and
such.

On Feb 1, 1:52 am, "Graham Mayor" wrote:
grammatim wrote:
If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

Most users can work quite happily without displaying non-printing
characters all the time, and this is the default setting for Word.
Of course there are times when it is useful to display the
characters, but to suggest that you shouldn't turn them off is
ridiculous. If you like to see them continuously then that's fine
for you, but I certainly would not want to see them all the time -
and neither I suggest would most people.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web sitewww.gmayor.com
Word MVP web sitehttp://word.mvps.org

[Gordon Bentley-Mix]

If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

It does if you use Word as your email editor.

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

Ditto the advice that Graham and Suzanne have given. Displaying/hiding
non-printing characters is a matter of personal preference - although for
"professional" users of Word the preference seems to be to have them show. If
it were critical to the use of Word that non-printing characters be visible
all the time, then this would be the default setting and there would be no
option to hide them.

Providing responses that represent your personal view of how thing should
and shouldn't be done and presenting them is a way that could be construed as
"mandatory" - i.e. the only "right" way to do things - is neither helpful nor
constructive. It is far better to make recommendations on best practices and
back up those recommendations with solid reasoning, but statements like "[i]f
everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly" are rude and
demeaning and smack of superiority.

If I were responding to the OP, I would take an approach similar to
Suzanne's and directed the her to the MVP article, which does an excellent
job of providing detailed information on the cause of the "problem", methods
for resolving it and recommendations on best practices. I might have gone on
to say that I usually work with non-printing characters visible as it gives
me greater control over the finer details of my documents, but I would
_never_ tell someone that they _shouldn't_ hide them. After all, even if I
have the letters "MVP" after my name, who am I to tell someone how they
should work?

Perhaps you should have a look at the "About Us" article on the MVP site
(http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm) - especially the section entitled
"How NOT to become an MVP".
--
Cheers!

Gordon Bentley-Mix
Word MVP

Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all
follow-ups to the newsgroup.


"grammatim" wrote:

If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

On Jan 31, 9:40 pm, Lorraine
wrote:
Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and
now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this???

it looks like a backwards P

[grammatim[_2_]]

On Feb 1, 4:10*pm, Gordon Bentley-Mix gordon(dot)bentleymix(at)gmail
(dot)com wrote:
If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

It does if you use Word as your email editor.

And how would I do that?

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

Ditto the advice that Graham and Suzanne have given. Displaying/hiding
non-printing characters is a matter of personal preference - although for
"professional" users of Word the preference seems to be to have them show.. If
it were critical to the use of Word that non-printing characters be visible
all the time, then this would be the default setting and there would be no
option to hide them.

I believe showing paragraph marks is the default setting. (Not,
obviously, showing all non-printing characters.)
[i]
Providing responses that represent your personal view of how thing should
and shouldn't be done and presenting them is a way that could be construed as
"mandatory" - i.e. the only "right" way to do things - is neither helpful nor
constructive. It is far better to make recommendations on best practices and
back up those recommendations with solid reasoning, but statements like "f
everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly" are rude and
demeaning and smack of superiority.

If I were responding to the OP, I would take an approach similar to
Suzanne's and directed the her to the MVP article, which does an excellent
job of providing detailed information on the cause of the "problem", methods
for resolving it and recommendations on best practices. I might have gone on
to say that I usually work with non-printing characters visible as it gives
me greater control over the finer details of my documents, but I would
_never_ tell someone that they _shouldn't_ hide them. After all, even if I
have the letters "MVP" after my name, who am I to tell someone how they
should work?

I don't have access to the MVP database.

Perhaps you should have a look at the "About Us" article on the MVP site
(http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm) - especially the section entitled
"How NOT to become an MVP".

Why would I want to be an MVP? I know nothing about Fields, or Forms,
or Macros, or Merge, or many other things they deal with.

[Gordon Bentley-Mix]

Pull yer head in mate...
--
Cheers!

Gordon Bentley-Mix
Word MVP

Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all
follow-ups to the newsgroup.


"grammatim" wrote:

On Feb 1, 4:10 pm, Gordon Bentley-Mix gordon(dot)bentleymix(at)gmail
(dot)com wrote:
If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

It does if you use Word as your email editor.

And how would I do that?
Assuming Outlook as the email client (and a valid assumption in the OP's
case as this is the _ONLY_ way pilcrons from Word would show up in email
messages), click Tools | Options..., select the "Mail Format" tab then select
the appropriate checkbox to use Word to edit email messages. (The exact
wording of and/or process to find this checkbox varies depending the the
version of Outlook/Word installed.)

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

Ditto the advice that Graham and Suzanne have given. Displaying/hiding
non-printing characters is a matter of personal preference - although for
"professional" users of Word the preference seems to be to have them show.. If
it were critical to the use of Word that non-printing characters be visible
all the time, then this would be the default setting and there would be no
option to hide them.

I believe showing paragraph marks is the default setting. (Not,
obviously, showing all non-printing characters.)
Mmm... nope... wrong again.[i]

Providing responses that represent your personal view of how thing should
and shouldn't be done and presenting them is a way that could be construed as
"mandatory" - i.e. the only "right" way to do things - is neither helpful nor
constructive. It is far better to make recommendations on best practices and
back up those recommendations with solid reasoning, but statements like "f
everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly" are rude and
demeaning and smack of superiority.

If I were responding to the OP, I would take an approach similar to
Suzanne's and directed the her to the MVP article, which does an excellent
job of providing detailed information on the cause of the "problem", methods
for resolving it and recommendations on best practices. I might have gone on
to say that I usually work with non-printing characters visible as it gives
me greater control over the finer details of my documents, but I would
_never_ tell someone that they _shouldn't_ hide them. After all, even if I
have the letters "MVP" after my name, who am I to tell someone how they
should work?

I don't have access to the MVP database.
EVERYONE has access to the MVP articles. They're on a public site and are a
valuable source of information that can be referenced freely. ANYONE can post
links to them; not just MVPs.

But that's not the point. Even without referencing the MVP article, I still
wouldn't do more than make qualified recommendations and then leave it to the
individual to decide how they want to work.

Perhaps you should have a look at the "About Us" article on the MVP site
(http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm) - especially the section entitled
"How NOT to become an MVP".

Why would I want to be an MVP? I know nothing about Fields, or Forms,
or Macros, or Merge, or many other things they deal with.
No worries there 'cause it'll never happen. Maybe you should have stopped
typing after "I know nothing". At the very least stop posting rude and
useless responses to perfectly ordinary questions.

I see you already had a bit of a stouch with Greg Maxey (and a few others
have taken exception to some of your other posts as well). Greg has the
patience of a saint, so managing to get him riled tells me a lot. One thing
that stood out in that exchange was the comment that you don't read the
information that's provided to you, and I see that nothing has changed. Just
because you don't want to be an MVP doesn't mean that the recommendations in
that article don't apply to you - especially the parts about wrong, untested
or cryptic answers and rudeness.

So pull yer head in mate. Post quality or don't bother.

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

And how would I do that?

Some versions of Outlook permit it, or do it by default; Outlook 2007 uses a
clone of Word.

I don't have access to the MVP database.

I'm confused by this. What database are you referring to?

Why would I want to be an MVP?

So I guess we'll stop bothering nominating you. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
On Feb 1, 4:10 pm, Gordon Bentley-Mix gordon(dot)bentleymix(at)gmail
(dot)com wrote:
If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

It does if you use Word as your email editor.

And how would I do that?

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

Ditto the advice that Graham and Suzanne have given. Displaying/hiding
non-printing characters is a matter of personal preference - although for
"professional" users of Word the preference seems to be to have them show.
If
it were critical to the use of Word that non-printing characters be
visible
all the time, then this would be the default setting and there would be no
option to hide them.

I believe showing paragraph marks is the default setting. (Not,
obviously, showing all non-printing characters.)
[i]
Providing responses that represent your personal view of how thing should
and shouldn't be done and presenting them is a way that could be construed
as
"mandatory" - i.e. the only "right" way to do things - is neither helpful
nor
constructive. It is far better to make recommendations on best practices
and
back up those recommendations with solid reasoning, but statements like
"f
everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly" are rude and
demeaning and smack of superiority.

If I were responding to the OP, I would take an approach similar to
Suzanne's and directed the her to the MVP article, which does an excellent
job of providing detailed information on the cause of the "problem",
methods
for resolving it and recommendations on best practices. I might have gone
on
to say that I usually work with non-printing characters visible as it
gives
me greater control over the finer details of my documents, but I would
_never_ tell someone that they _shouldn't_ hide them. After all, even if I
have the letters "MVP" after my name, who am I to tell someone how they
should work?

I don't have access to the MVP database.

Perhaps you should have a look at the "About Us" article on the MVP site
(http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm) - especially the section
entitled
"How NOT to become an MVP".

Why would I want to be an MVP? I know nothing about Fields, or Forms,
or Macros, or Merge, or many other things they deal with.

[Gordon Bentley-Mix]

Let's try this again.

Suspend your objection to becoming an MVP for a moment (especially since
it's pretty clear that it'll never happen) and go back and read that article
again. Here's the link in case you lost it:
http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm.

Look closely at the section entitled "How NOT to become an MVP" again, but
this time imagine that, rather than being instructions for those who aspire
to MVP-dom, it's merely a set of recommendations to anyone who wants to repay
the kindness shown to them by a group of hardworking volunteers (see the
section entitled "Do MVPs get paid?") by sharing their knowledge with others
who may not be so fortunate. I understand that this may be difficult for you,
but have a fire extinguisher on hand and spray your head with it if you smell
smoke.

Now consider your post in light of the recommendations in the aforementioned
article:

If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

First, this is blatantly wrong. Any Office user with an ounce of nous would
be able to look at the situation - pilcrons have suddenly appeared in both
Word documents _and_ in email messages - and safely assume that the problems
are related. However, if this wasn't clear to you it would have been better
to say something like, "I'm not absolutely certain but I don't think the two
are related." If I had been answering (given that I _do_ know about the
potential for a relationship between Word and email) I would have asked if
the OP used Outlook and if it was configured to use Word as the editor. Then
I would have gone on to say that fixing the problem in one place should fix
the problem in the other. But given your lack of awareness around this I'll
let this one go on that point.

Now consider the rudeness of this response. You might as well have ended
that statement with "you moron!" It's abrupt and dismissive. Perhaps it might
have been a bit more palatable if you had said something like "AFAIK, things
that happen in email aren't caused by Word because the two aren't related."
Of course, you would still be wrong, but at least you would have been
politely wrong.

Now let's look at the rest of your post:

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

~sigh~ Where to begin...

Again, it's wrong. Although there are many good reasons to _show_
non-printing characters, there are no good reasons not to hide them. It won't
break Word or cause any problems that can't be fixed easily. Yes, it probably
would cut down on the number of posts of this nature if users had a better
understanding of the advantages of showing non-printing characters, and yes,
power-users do tend to show them at least part of the time, but a blanket
"don't do it" is incorrect and misleading.

It also falls under the "cryptic answer" category as well. You provided no
reason for not hiding the non-printing characters, and if I were on the
receiving end of this advice, I'd either be scratching my head in confusion -
after all, everything worked fine _before_ these characters started showing
up on my screen - or in a panic that there's some major problem with all the
work I've ever done and now it's going to come back to bite me. ~cue the
spooky, foreboding music~

I suppose it could also be considered untested as well, since it's not
really an answer that works - but that's just being pedantic.

Rude though? Yup, definitely - especially when considered in conjunction
with your later comment about "[i]f everyone learned to use their paragraph
marks correctly...". The use of "perfectly simple" implies that the user is
ignorant, and telling the user that they shouldn't do something - especially
without explanation - again is abrupt and dismissive. And your follow up
comment is nothing more than a slap that makes you sound arrogant. It was
unnecessary and unkind.

Unfortunately, given your historical reaction to criticism of your posts, I
expect that if you do respond it will simply to be to argue over some minor
technical point; the gestalt of the criticism will be lost on you. If you do
take this position, that's OK; I'll just file it with "Teaching pigs to sing"
and cross-reference under "Troll".
--
Gordon Bentley-Mix
Word MVP

Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all
follow-ups to the newsgroup.


"grammatim" wrote:

If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

On Jan 31, 9:40 pm, Lorraine
wrote:
Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and
now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this???

it looks like a backwards P

[Gordon Bentley-Mix]

Why would I want to be an MVP?

So I guess we'll stop bothering nominating you. g
--
Cheers!

Gordon Bentley-Mix
Word MVP

Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all
follow-ups to the newsgroup.

[Gordon Bentley-Mix]

Bloody web interface! That should have been:

Why would I want to be an MVP?

So I guess we'll stop bothering nominating you. g

Well said Suzanne!
--
Cheers!

Gordon Bentley-Mix
Word MVP

Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all
follow-ups to the newsgroup.

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Yeah, and mine should have been "bothering to nominate you" ("bothering to"
was a second thought).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

"Gordon Bentley-Mix" gordon(dot)bentleymix(at)gmail(dot)com wrote in
message ...
Bloody web interface! That should have been:

Why would I want to be an MVP?

So I guess we'll stop bothering nominating you. g

Well said Suzanne!
--
Cheers!

Gordon Bentley-Mix
Word MVP

Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post
all
follow-ups to the newsgroup.

[joann]

Wow! By now Lorraine is probably afraid to ever ask another question.

"Gordon Bentley-Mix" wrote:
[i]
Let's try this again.

Suspend your objection to becoming an MVP for a moment (especially since
it's pretty clear that it'll never happen) and go back and read that article
again. Here's the link in case you lost it:
http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm.

Look closely at the section entitled "How NOT to become an MVP" again, but
this time imagine that, rather than being instructions for those who aspire
to MVP-dom, it's merely a set of recommendations to anyone who wants to repay
the kindness shown to them by a group of hardworking volunteers (see the
section entitled "Do MVPs get paid?") by sharing their knowledge with others
who may not be so fortunate. I understand that this may be difficult for you,
but have a fire extinguisher on hand and spray your head with it if you smell
smoke.

Now consider your post in light of the recommendations in the aforementioned
article:

If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

First, this is blatantly wrong. Any Office user with an ounce of nous would
be able to look at the situation - pilcrons have suddenly appeared in both
Word documents _and_ in email messages - and safely assume that the problems
are related. However, if this wasn't clear to you it would have been better
to say something like, "I'm not absolutely certain but I don't think the two
are related." If I had been answering (given that I _do_ know about the
potential for a relationship between Word and email) I would have asked if
the OP used Outlook and if it was configured to use Word as the editor. Then
I would have gone on to say that fixing the problem in one place should fix
the problem in the other. But given your lack of awareness around this I'll
let this one go on that point.

Now consider the rudeness of this response. You might as well have ended
that statement with "you moron!" It's abrupt and dismissive. Perhaps it might
have been a bit more palatable if you had said something like "AFAIK, things
that happen in email aren't caused by Word because the two aren't related."
Of course, you would still be wrong, but at least you would have been
politely wrong.

Now let's look at the rest of your post:

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

~sigh~ Where to begin...

Again, it's wrong. Although there are many good reasons to _show_
non-printing characters, there are no good reasons not to hide them. It won't
break Word or cause any problems that can't be fixed easily. Yes, it probably
would cut down on the number of posts of this nature if users had a better
understanding of the advantages of showing non-printing characters, and yes,
power-users do tend to show them at least part of the time, but a blanket
"don't do it" is incorrect and misleading.

It also falls under the "cryptic answer" category as well. You provided no
reason for not hiding the non-printing characters, and if I were on the
receiving end of this advice, I'd either be scratching my head in confusion -
after all, everything worked fine _before_ these characters started showing
up on my screen - or in a panic that there's some major problem with all the
work I've ever done and now it's going to come back to bite me. ~cue the
spooky, foreboding music~

I suppose it could also be considered untested as well, since it's not
really an answer that works - but that's just being pedantic.

Rude though? Yup, definitely - especially when considered in conjunction
with your later comment about "f everyone learned to use their paragraph
marks correctly...". The use of "perfectly simple" implies that the user is
ignorant, and telling the user that they shouldn't do something - especially
without explanation - again is abrupt and dismissive. And your follow up
comment is nothing more than a slap that makes you sound arrogant. It was
unnecessary and unkind.

Unfortunately, given your historical reaction to criticism of your posts, I
expect that if you do respond it will simply to be to argue over some minor
technical point; the gestalt of the criticism will be lost on you. If you do
take this position, that's OK; I'll just file it with "Teaching pigs to sing"
and cross-reference under "Troll".
--
Gordon Bentley-Mix
Word MVP

Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all
follow-ups to the newsgroup.


"grammatim" wrote:

If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.

If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you
shouldn't.

On Jan 31, 9:40 pm, Lorraine
wrote:
Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and
now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this???

it looks like a backwards P

[Gordon Bentley-Mix]

Sorry Lorraine. I've turned your question into a rant on forum etiquette when
all you wanted was an answer to a legitimate question. Please accept my
humble apologies.
--
Cheers!

Gordon Bentley-Mix
Word MVP

Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all
follow-ups to the newsgroup.


"Lorraine" wrote:

Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and
now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this???

it looks like a backwards P