[Nyco_ork]

I have one file that contains about 71,000 words and several graphics. It
took a little longer to save in Word 2000 than my other big files (also 71k
words, but no graphics); but in 2003 it is taking a very much longer time,
and weird things are happening. I'm getting nervous, thinking the file might
become corrupted.

The file is not huge; it's about 950 kB. Another file with the same number
of words and no graphics is 750 kb. What happens when I save is this: The
progress bar on the status bar does its thing, but slowly; then the status
bar disappears altogether, or blinks on and off; then the status bar comes
back and another progress bar comes on, and eventually the save is finished,
or so it seems. But then, when I close the document, I'm prompted with the
"Do you want to save?" dialogue all over again, as if nothing has been saved.

Currently this document is a fresh version of the material; that is, the
previous version had all changes accepted, and it was resaved as a new, clean
version. There are no tracking changes active. (The option to keep track of
formatting is turned off.) The graphics are as follows: about 35 small
equations, created with an equation editor (but they are not complex; most
have only one or two symbols); and 31 floating shapes (pictures or graphics)
that are mostly quite small, less than an inch wide and 1/2 inch tall. Three
of them are bigger, taking about 1/3 of a page. The small shapes are
formatted with "tight" text wrapping, the large ones with "top and bottom"
text wrapping.

The fact that I am prompted to save on closing the document, when I have
just saved it, makes me quite nervous. I don't see any signs of corruption
yet, but I'm about to start editing this document, and think the anomalies
are likely to get worse, so I'd like to sort this out before I start editing.

Thanks

RB

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

The file HAS corrupted and the lengthy save time is because Word is trying
to fix it (and failing). Try a Maggie:

1) Create a new blank document

2) Carefully select all of the text in the bad document EXCEPT the last
paragraph mark

3) Copy it.

4) Paste in the new document.

5) Save under a new file name and close all, then re-open.

This technique for de-corrupting is known as "Doing a 'Maggie'", after
Margaret Secara from the Word PC-L mailing list who first publicised the
technique.


On 14/2/07 6:38 PM, in article
, "Nyco_ork"
wrote:

I have one file that contains about 71,000 words and several graphics. It
took a little longer to save in Word 2000 than my other big files (also 71k
words, but no graphics); but in 2003 it is taking a very much longer time,
and weird things are happening. I'm getting nervous, thinking the file might
become corrupted.

The file is not huge; it's about 950 kB. Another file with the same number
of words and no graphics is 750 kb. What happens when I save is this: The
progress bar on the status bar does its thing, but slowly; then the status
bar disappears altogether, or blinks on and off; then the status bar comes
back and another progress bar comes on, and eventually the save is finished,
or so it seems. But then, when I close the document, I'm prompted with the
"Do you want to save?" dialogue all over again, as if nothing has been saved.

Currently this document is a fresh version of the material; that is, the
previous version had all changes accepted, and it was resaved as a new, clean
version. There are no tracking changes active. (The option to keep track of
formatting is turned off.) The graphics are as follows: about 35 small
equations, created with an equation editor (but they are not complex; most
have only one or two symbols); and 31 floating shapes (pictures or graphics)
that are mostly quite small, less than an inch wide and 1/2 inch tall. Three
of them are bigger, taking about 1/3 of a page. The small shapes are
formatted with "tight" text wrapping, the large ones with "top and bottom"
text wrapping.

The fact that I am prompted to save on closing the document, when I have
just saved it, makes me quite nervous. I don't see any signs of corruption
yet, but I'm about to start editing this document, and think the anomalies
are likely to get worse, so I'd like to sort this out before I start editing.

Thanks

RB

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

[Nyco_ork]

John, that is an unbelievably valuable piece of information. I can't thank
you -- and Maggie -- enough.

Richard

"John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macinto" wrote:

The file HAS corrupted and the lengthy save time is because Word is trying
to fix it (and failing). Try a Maggie:

1) Create a new blank document

2) Carefully select all of the text in the bad document EXCEPT the last
paragraph mark

3) Copy it.

4) Paste in the new document.

5) Save under a new file name and close all, then re-open.

This technique for de-corrupting is known as "Doing a 'Maggie'", after
Margaret Secara from the Word PC-L mailing list who first publicised the
technique.


On 14/2/07 6:38 PM, in article
, "Nyco_ork"
wrote:

I have one file that contains about 71,000 words and several graphics. It
took a little longer to save in Word 2000 than my other big files (also 71k
words, but no graphics); but in 2003 it is taking a very much longer time,
and weird things are happening. I'm getting nervous, thinking the file might
become corrupted.

The file is not huge; it's about 950 kB. Another file with the same number
of words and no graphics is 750 kb. What happens when I save is this: The
progress bar on the status bar does its thing, but slowly; then the status
bar disappears altogether, or blinks on and off; then the status bar comes
back and another progress bar comes on, and eventually the save is finished,
or so it seems. But then, when I close the document, I'm prompted with the
"Do you want to save?" dialogue all over again, as if nothing has been saved.

Currently this document is a fresh version of the material; that is, the
previous version had all changes accepted, and it was resaved as a new, clean
version. There are no tracking changes active. (The option to keep track of
formatting is turned off.) The graphics are as follows: about 35 small
equations, created with an equation editor (but they are not complex; most
have only one or two symbols); and 31 floating shapes (pictures or graphics)
that are mostly quite small, less than an inch wide and 1/2 inch tall. Three
of them are bigger, taking about 1/3 of a page. The small shapes are
formatted with "tight" text wrapping, the large ones with "top and bottom"
text wrapping.

The fact that I am prompted to save on closing the document, when I have
just saved it, makes me quite nervous. I don't see any signs of corruption
yet, but I'm about to start editing this document, and think the anomalies
are likely to get worse, so I'd like to sort this out before I start editing.

Thanks

RB

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

[Nyco_ork]

John,

I spoke too soon. As soon as I made changes to the document and resaved it,
it started to exhibit the same behavior. This is baffling. I can't go through
a Maggie process every time I work on the file or resave it. Could it simply
be that Word 2003 is having a problem with the particular set of graphics? I
noticed when I imported the file from Word 2000 that all the equation fields
generated errors, and I had to do the equations from scratch. Maybe the
equations are causing the problem. I'll try making a test version of the file
stripping the equations out to see what happens. This is not
confidence-inspring. I'm only having the problem with this one file.

Please let me know if you have any further ideas.

Richard

"John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macinto" wrote:

The file HAS corrupted and the lengthy save time is because Word is trying
to fix it (and failing). Try a Maggie:

1) Create a new blank document

2) Carefully select all of the text in the bad document EXCEPT the last
paragraph mark

3) Copy it.

4) Paste in the new document.

5) Save under a new file name and close all, then re-open.

This technique for de-corrupting is known as "Doing a 'Maggie'", after
Margaret Secara from the Word PC-L mailing list who first publicised the
technique.


On 14/2/07 6:38 PM, in article
, "Nyco_ork"
wrote:

I have one file that contains about 71,000 words and several graphics. It
took a little longer to save in Word 2000 than my other big files (also 71k
words, but no graphics); but in 2003 it is taking a very much longer time,
and weird things are happening. I'm getting nervous, thinking the file might
become corrupted.

The file is not huge; it's about 950 kB. Another file with the same number
of words and no graphics is 750 kb. What happens when I save is this: The
progress bar on the status bar does its thing, but slowly; then the status
bar disappears altogether, or blinks on and off; then the status bar comes
back and another progress bar comes on, and eventually the save is finished,
or so it seems. But then, when I close the document, I'm prompted with the
"Do you want to save?" dialogue all over again, as if nothing has been saved.

Currently this document is a fresh version of the material; that is, the
previous version had all changes accepted, and it was resaved as a new, clean
version. There are no tracking changes active. (The option to keep track of
formatting is turned off.) The graphics are as follows: about 35 small
equations, created with an equation editor (but they are not complex; most
have only one or two symbols); and 31 floating shapes (pictures or graphics)
that are mostly quite small, less than an inch wide and 1/2 inch tall. Three
of them are bigger, taking about 1/3 of a page. The small shapes are
formatted with "tight" text wrapping, the large ones with "top and bottom"
text wrapping.

The fact that I am prompted to save on closing the document, when I have
just saved it, makes me quite nervous. I don't see any signs of corruption
yet, but I'm about to start editing this document, and think the anomalies
are likely to get worse, so I'd like to sort this out before I start editing.

Thanks

RB

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

[Bob Mathews]

On 14-Feb-2007, Richard wrote:

I have one file that contains about 71,000 words and several
graphics. It took a little longer to save in Word 2000 than
my other big files (also 71k words, but no graphics); but in
2003 it is taking a very much longer time, and weird things
are happening. I'm getting nervous, thinking the file might
become corrupted.

Richard, John had some pretty good suggestions, but from your
last post I see it didn't solve your problem. We have at least
one article on our web site that deals with issues such as this.
I'd start with this article:

http://www.dessci.com/en/support/mat...tsn/tsn105.htm

If it turns out that one doesn't work for you, scan the list of
other Technical Notices and see if one of the other ones
addresses your problem any better. If that doesn't work, fire off
an e-mail to our Tech Support folks at and
they can help you out. Please include your MathType registration
number in your e-mail.

--
Bob Mathews bobm at dessci.com
Director of Training
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType 5
Design Science, Inc. -- "How Science Communicates"
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide

[Nyco_ork]

Bob, John,

Thanks for all the help and feedback. Actually, I had begun to suspect
equations. Even though I don't use MathType, I have some equations were done
with Corel Equation Editor 10, because the built-in Microsoft Equation Editor
(both 2 and 3) don't have all the Set theory symbols I need.

These are not long, full-blown equations, by the way. I'm not doing a
technical paper. It's actually a work of fiction, which happens to have a few
equation symbols. One of them the "therefore" sign, is repeated some 25
times. The other six or seven are Corel Set symbols for Set Intersection, Set
Union, and so on.

I made a test copy of the file, and deleted all equations. (I did not delete
the other pictures and graphics; only the equations.) It saved normally with
no problem. Then I started over, and tried setting the program to use picture
placeholders onscreen. That did not help the problem. The save still took too
long and the status bar disappeared. Then I added back in the "therefore"
symbol, using MS Equation Editor 3, but deleted the Corel Set symbols (which
I had copied and pasted from the Word 2000 version of the same file). With
the Set symbols deleted, the file saved properly.

Next I tried reinserting the Set symbols one a time, directly from the Corel
equation editor, rather than copying them. I see by your paper that copying
OLE objects can sometimes corrupt them. Drag.

Once I had done that, the file took a little longer to save, but not as
long, and I didn't experience the problem of the status bar going off.

I had none of these problems with the exact same equations in the Word 2000
SP3 version of the file, BTW. It is occurring only in Word 2003.

Also BTW, why are equations embedded as fields in the first place? I've
determined that is the reason I'm prompted to save the file when I close it,
even after saving it. Those equation fields make the program think something
has changed when it hasn't. If I go ahead and follow the prompt to save on
close, the file saves normally with no problem.

When I press Alt-F9 and inspect the "therefore" equation fields, the field
reads "Embed Equation 3". When I inspect the Set symbol fields, they read
"Embed Equation COEE 2." No news here, really, except for the fact that the
objects are embedded in fields.

If I did a lot of technical writing, I'd be tempted to use Wordperfect. It
has none of these problems with equations.

Anyway, I think I've gotten to the bottom of this. Thanks for the help, both
of you. I'll make another post if the problem recurs.

Richard


"Bob Mathews" wrote:

On 14-Feb-2007, Richard wrote:

I have one file that contains about 71,000 words and several
graphics. It took a little longer to save in Word 2000 than
my other big files (also 71k words, but no graphics); but in
2003 it is taking a very much longer time, and weird things
are happening. I'm getting nervous, thinking the file might
become corrupted.

Richard, John had some pretty good suggestions, but from your
last post I see it didn't solve your problem. We have at least
one article on our web site that deals with issues such as this.
I'd start with this article:

http://www.dessci.com/en/support/mat...tsn/tsn105.htm

If it turns out that one doesn't work for you, scan the list of
other Technical Notices and see if one of the other ones
addresses your problem any better. If that doesn't work, fire off
an e-mail to our Tech Support folks at and
they can help you out. Please include your MathType registration
number in your e-mail.

--
Bob Mathews bobm at dessci.com
Director of Training
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType 5
Design Science, Inc. -- "How Science Communicates"
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide

[Bob Mathews]

On 17-Feb-2007, Richard wrote:

Also BTW, why are equations embedded as fields in the first
place? I've determined that is the reason I'm prompted to save
the file when I close it, even after saving it.

That's just the mark of an OLE object. If you were to insert an
Excel 2003 chart, a PowerPoint 2003 slide, and a WAV file you
recorded, you'd see { EMBED Excel.Sheet.8 }, { EMBED
PowerPoint.Slide.8 }, and { EMBED SoundRec }, respectively. All
objects embedded into an Office document have field codes
associated with them.

--
Bob Mathews bobm at dessci.com
Director of Training
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType 5
Design Science, Inc. -- "How Science Communicates"
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide

[Nyco_ork]

Bob, John,

Took me a long time, but I finally figured out what was causing this
problem. I had to different types of graphics on a line in several places.
One was an equation, formatted to be "inline" with text, and the other was a
small picture, formatted, to be "tight" with text; there was text between
them and text after the second graphic. I couldn't get them to line up
correctly; the equation was too high on the line and the picture was too low.
So I reformatted them both to be "on top" of text. Then I had to add manual
spaces to the underlying text to get it to appear in the proper location.
But, lo and behold, that cured the "long save" problem. This formatting had
caused no problem in Word 2000, but both programs did share one symptom: I've
been using automatic line numbering in this document, and on the line where
this occurred, the line numbers skipped a number (15, 16, 18,) etc; the
missing number printed behind the picture.

It's completely some weirdness having to do with graphics. I don't like have
to convert both objects to floating objects, because then I can't use the
built-in browse for graphics feature; but at least the extended saving
process went away.

RB

"Bob Mathews" wrote:

On 17-Feb-2007, Richard wrote:

Also BTW, why are equations embedded as fields in the first
place? I've determined that is the reason I'm prompted to save
the file when I close it, even after saving it.

That's just the mark of an OLE object. If you were to insert an
Excel 2003 chart, a PowerPoint 2003 slide, and a WAV file you
recorded, you'd see { EMBED Excel.Sheet.8 }, { EMBED
PowerPoint.Slide.8 }, and { EMBED SoundRec }, respectively. All
objects embedded into an Office document have field codes
associated with them.

--
Bob Mathews bobm at dessci.com
Director of Training
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType 5
Design Science, Inc. -- "How Science Communicates"
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide

[Bob Mathews]

Strange problem indeed. It's good to know you got it figured out
though; thanks for letting us know.

--
Bob Mathews
Director of Training
Design Science, Inc.
bobm at dessci.com
http://www.dessci.com/free.asp?free=news
FREE fully-functional 30-day evaluation of MathType 5
MathType, WebEQ, MathPlayer, MathFlow, Equation Editor, TeXaide