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#1
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I hope it just that this new interface is still strange to me, but I am
finding the migration from Office 2007 to be far more difficult than was any previous change. I have used Office since version 97 (in 1998) and have migrated to new releases as the minds in Washington state decided it was time for me to change. Those were all painless. Any and all opinion are welcomed to help enlighten me. And by the way, Ron deBruin, an Excel MVP has an excellent site at http://www.rondebruin.nl/0307commands.html. It is related to Excel, but may prove valuable for Word and PowerPoint as well. |
#2
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new
users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "PA" wrote in message ... I hope it just that this new interface is still strange to me, but I am finding the migration from Office 2007 to be far more difficult than was any previous change. I have used Office since version 97 (in 1998) and have migrated to new releases as the minds in Washington state decided it was time for me to change. Those were all painless. Any and all opinion are welcomed to help enlighten me. And by the way, Ron deBruin, an Excel MVP has an excellent site at http://www.rondebruin.nl/0307commands.html. It is related to Excel, but may prove valuable for Word and PowerPoint as well. |
#3
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. Interesting. As an aside, and as a "power" user of Excel (mainly - since Office 95) - I never had any cause to do ANY customization of toolbars.....I wonder why people are so obsessed with it? |
#4
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I don't think anyone will argue that the transition is far more difficult
than previous versions. It does get better the more familiar you become but I am convinced that it is NOT easier or more intuitive to use than previous versions. However, this may be because I have been a Word user since Word 2 which is making me prejudiced against this major interface change. The way I see this is that the old interface was like the steering wheel of a car: it is intuitive and works well for everyone whether you are an old granny out shopping or an F1 ace winning the Monaco Grand Prix. A joy stick or a drive-by-wire touch pad would be a disaster for the majority of normal drivers. I think of the ribbon as the latter. Given a 'once and for all' choice between Office 2003 and Office 2007, I have no doubts that I would choose the former because I am concerned that the developers will not resolve the gaping holes they have made of the latter's interface implementation. Yes, I like the look and idea of the Ribbon, but I don't like the choice of tools that have been added in each group. As far as I am concerned, until a user is able to change the layout and tools on the ribbons and create a custom ribbon straight out of the box without need for third party tools, it is a failure. To me the QAT is just a last minute panic measure to overcome the inflexibilities of the Ribbons. -- Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP "PA" wrote in message ... I hope it just that this new interface is still strange to me, but I am finding the migration from Office 2007 to be far more difficult than was any previous change. I have used Office since version 97 (in 1998) and have migrated to new releases as the minds in Washington state decided it was time for me to change. Those were all painless. Any and all opinion are welcomed to help enlighten me. And by the way, Ron deBruin, an Excel MVP has an excellent site at http://www.rondebruin.nl/0307commands.html. It is related to Excel, but may prove valuable for Word and PowerPoint as well. |
#5
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
"Gordon" wrote:
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. But, since we represent less than 1% (I guess) of all users, we don't count! Interesting. As an aside, and as a "power" user of Excel (mainly - since Office 95) - I never had any cause to do ANY customization of toolbars.....I wonder why people are so obsessed with it? Quick examples: In Word, I always use "Format Paragraph... Line and Page Breaks Page Break Before OK" which is 5 clicks. (This is because I abhor manual Page Break as they have too often caused me grief...) Therefore, I added this command to the tool bar... Now, one click. In addition, I often need to get to the Advanced Layout tab (Object Format) to adjust object position on a page, or to get information. Normally, this is between 4 and 6 clicks away (depending on what you did last time you displayed the Object Format dialog). So I have a macro that opens it directly and I have added a button on the drawing toolbar... If you do many repetitive tasks or often use the same tools to do diverse tasks, it is definitely helpful to be able to customize the toolbars... This is why 2007 is a pain to those who used to have extensive customizations in order to make their job easier. One QAT to customize isnt the same as over 20 toolbars you can customize according to the type of tasks that needs to be performed... |
#6
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I would never classify myself as a power user, but I do claim to be competent
at using Word, Excel, and Access - and know enough about PowerPoint to get by with simple presentations. I have always disliked those operations that took multiple mouse clicks to activate. I have thus been an advocate of Toolbar modifications, since I first learned how ten years ago. The inflexability in Office 2007 is very vexing. Kind of like my local government dictating the type of vehicle I can park in my driveway, which they attempted to do. "Gordon" wrote: "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. Interesting. As an aside, and as a "power" user of Excel (mainly - since Office 95) - I never had any cause to do ANY customization of toolbars.....I wonder why people are so obsessed with it? |
#7
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I'm constantly finding things to add to the toolbar in Word 2003, though
every time I do, it is with a twinge of sadness, realizing it will be much more difficult in Word 2007. LIke Jean-Guy, I have a button for "Page break before" (though I don't actually use that one often) but also buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons). One big advantage of all of these is that they're toggles and display the state of the current paragraph, so it's easy to see whether a paragraph has the given formatting (the square bullet tells you they have one or more of the above, but not which one). Just the other day it occurred to me that there might be a button for File | Send To | Mail Recipient (As Attachment). I figured I might have to create my own button icon (or use the one for the existing E-mail button, which I never use), but to my delight there was not only a readymade command but one with a button icon! I slapped myself silly for not realizing this many moons ago--so many wasted mouse clicks! BTW, Jean-Guy, I understand you can have different QATs for different templates--not the same as having toolbars you can turn on and off in any template, but a start. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message ... "Gordon" wrote: "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. But, since we represent less than 1% (I guess) of all users, we don't count! Interesting. As an aside, and as a "power" user of Excel (mainly - since Office 95) - I never had any cause to do ANY customization of toolbars.....I wonder why people are so obsessed with it? Quick examples: In Word, I always use "Format Paragraph... Line and Page Breaks Page Break Before OK" which is 5 clicks. (This is because I abhor manual Page Break as they have too often caused me grief...) Therefore, I added this command to the tool bar... Now, one click. In addition, I often need to get to the "Advanced Layout" tab (Object Format) to adjust object position on a page, or to get information. Normally, this is between 4 and 6 clicks away (depending on what you did last time you displayed the Object Format dialog). So I have a macro that opens it directly and I have added a button on the drawing toolbar... If you do many repetitive tasks or often use the same tools to do diverse tasks, it is definitely helpful to be able to customize the toolbars... This is why 2007 is a pain to those who used to have extensive customizations in order to make their job easier. One QAT to customize isn't the same as over 20 toolbars you can customize according to the type of tasks that needs to be performed... |
#8
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Additionally, there are hundreds and hundreds of Word tools that are not on
any toolbar or under any menu (I printed them out once and it was over 4 pages long and I still don't know what half of them do). Without customisation, you cannot get at them at all - in fact, most users don't even know they exist because they don't know where to look. So creating a custom template with custom tools for a particular application for 'dodgy users' can be a boon to productivity: once the user knows that there's a magic tool to do a complex task, it will be used. Terry Farrell "Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message ... "Gordon" wrote: "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. But, since we represent less than 1% (I guess) of all users, we don't count! Interesting. As an aside, and as a "power" user of Excel (mainly - since Office 95) - I never had any cause to do ANY customization of toolbars.....I wonder why people are so obsessed with it? Quick examples: In Word, I always use "Format Paragraph... Line and Page Breaks Page Break Before OK" which is 5 clicks. (This is because I abhor manual Page Break as they have too often caused me grief...) Therefore, I added this command to the tool bar... Now, one click. In addition, I often need to get to the Advanced Layout tab (Object Format) to adjust object position on a page, or to get information. Normally, this is between 4 and 6 clicks away (depending on what you did last time you displayed the Object Format dialog). So I have a macro that opens it directly and I have added a button on the drawing toolbar... If you do many repetitive tasks or often use the same tools to do diverse tasks, it is definitely helpful to be able to customize the toolbars... This is why 2007 is a pain to those who used to have extensive customizations in order to make their job easier. One QAT to customize isnt the same as over 20 toolbars you can customize according to the type of tasks that needs to be performed... |
#9
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Hi Terry,
To an extent I agree, for support folks and corporate types who locked down everything anyway, for many users the Ribbon is 'more predictable' and they probably don't see that anything has been lost. In too many companies the 'show menus after a short delay') is what folks live with after each log in when they're in prior versions. That was pretty much taken away. As to customizing the ribbon, it's true that there there isn't the drag and drop UI built in, but customizing the ribbon via the RibbonX tools and 'language' to rearrange everything is probably not any higher degree of difficulty than it would be to write a macro in VBA (in fact it's easier for me to follow the outline structure of the RibbonX g), but surprisingly very few folks seem to have jumped into that. There is even at least one MS tool, although it's not a WYSIWYG one What is 'fun' is to start Word in Safe Mode (hold ctrl key when starting for those reading who may not be familiar with it) and seeing the 'regular' ribbon if you have customized positions g. Then you can really get confused. Over time, I've noted that there is a definite pause now when I start a prior version and go looking for things as the 'muscle memory' now 'fights' to want to go to the Word 2007 places as first choice when using the mouse g. ============ "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... I don't think anyone will argue that the transition is far more difficult than previous versions. It does get better the more familiar you become but I am convinced that it is NOT easier or more intuitive to use than previous versions. However, this may be because I have been a Word user since Word 2 which is making me prejudiced against this major interface change. The way I see this is that the old interface was like the steering wheel of a car: it is intuitive and works well for everyone whether you are an old granny out shopping or an F1 ace winning the Monaco Grand Prix. A joy stick or a drive-by-wire touch pad would be a disaster for the majority of normal drivers. I think of the ribbon as the latter. Given a 'once and for all' choice between Office 2003 and Office 2007, I have no doubts that I would choose the former because I am concerned that the developers will not resolve the gaping holes they have made of the latter's interface implementation. Yes, I like the look and idea of the Ribbon, but I don't like the choice of tools that have been added in each group. As far as I am concerned, until a user is able to change the layout and tools on the ribbons and create a custom ribbon straight out of the box without need for third party tools, it is a failure. To me the QAT is just a last minute panic measure to overcome the inflexibilities of the Ribbons. -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#10
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Hi Jean-Guy,
While the Quick Access Toolbar has only one position, it does have the ability to have multiple sections that can you can have come and go as needed. The standalone (always there) entries are stored (in Word's case) in a separate XML file, Word.QAT, but you can add QAT items to specific templates or specific documents if those help with task related actions. You can attach a template (Alt, T, I) that has a custom QAT section as well as pull in custom made (not customized built in) Toolbars from older versions into the Add-In tab. Then there is http://toggletoolbar.com which demonstrates a way to use [Task] Panes in Word 2007 as a way to 'host' groups of commands (i.e. a version of floating toolbars). MVP Greg Maxey was looking into doing an article (I think) on how to do that with Word, but I don't know how far along he's gotten with that. ================= "Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message ... Quick examples: In Word, I always use "Format Paragraph... Line and Page Breaks Page Break Before OK" which is 5 clicks. (This is because I abhor manual Page Break as they have too often caused me grief...) Therefore, I added this command to the tool bar... Now, one click. In addition, I often need to get to the "Advanced Layout" tab (Object Format) to adjust object position on a page, or to get information. Normally, this is between 4 and 6 clicks away (depending on what you did last time you displayed the Object Format dialog). So I have a macro that opens it directly and I have added a button on the drawing toolbar... If you do many repetitive tasks or often use the same tools to do diverse tasks, it is definitely helpful to be able to customize the toolbars... This is why 2007 is a pain to those who used to have extensive customizations in order to make their job easier. One QAT to customize isn't the same as over 20 toolbars you can customize according to the type of tasks that needs to be performed... -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#11
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
"buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert
Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#12
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:
BTW, Jean-Guy, I understand you can have different QATs for different templates--not the same as having toolbars you can turn on and off in any template, but a start. Thanks for the info, this is good to know. I will keep this in mind whenever my company is ready to make the "big" switch... |
#13
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries
forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#14
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Thanks for that Ms Barnhill.
Lets hope Mr Franz reads this and is agreeable. I have always had KWN and KLT on my toolbar and use them constantly. As you say the toogle effect is very handy. Unfortunately I have them as Text buttons and a nice little icon or two would be very handy, even only to save toolbar space. Best regards DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#15
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I copied him by email, and he gave his permission for me to share. I'll
figure out a way to do it and let you know where they can be found. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Thanks for that Ms Barnhill. Lets hope Mr Franz reads this and is agreeable. I have always had KWN and KLT on my toolbar and use them constantly. As you say the toogle effect is very handy. Unfortunately I have them as Text buttons and a nice little icon or two would be very handy, even only to save toolbar space. Best regards DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#16
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Many thanks.
Would somewhere on your website be best? Look forward, as always, to hearing from you. DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: I copied him by email, and he gave his permission for me to share. I'll figure out a way to do it and let you know where they can be found. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Thanks for that Ms Barnhill. Lets hope Mr Franz reads this and is agreeable. I have always had KWN and KLT on my toolbar and use them constantly. As you say the toogle effect is very handy. Unfortunately I have them as Text buttons and a nice little icon or two would be very handy, even only to save toolbar space. Best regards DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#17
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Yes, I'll post them somewhere at my WordFAQs site. The hard part is
remembering to do it! I'll put that on my To Do list for today so I won't forget. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Many thanks. Would somewhere on your website be best? Look forward, as always, to hearing from you. DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: I copied him by email, and he gave his permission for me to share. I'll figure out a way to do it and let you know where they can be found. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Thanks for that Ms Barnhill. Lets hope Mr Franz reads this and is agreeable. I have always had KWN and KLT on my toolbar and use them constantly. As you say the toogle effect is very handy. Unfortunately I have them as Text buttons and a nice little icon or two would be very handy, even only to save toolbar space. Best regards DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#18
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
That is the website I was alluding to with "your website" and not one of the
multitude of other sites you are connected to. Greatly appreciated. Thanks again DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Yes, I'll post them somewhere at my WordFAQs site. The hard part is remembering to do it! I'll put that on my To Do list for today so I won't forget. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Many thanks. Would somewhere on your website be best? Look forward, as always, to hearing from you. DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: I copied him by email, and he gave his permission for me to share. I'll figure out a way to do it and let you know where they can be found. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Thanks for that Ms Barnhill. Lets hope Mr Franz reads this and is agreeable. I have always had KWN and KLT on my toolbar and use them constantly. As you say the toogle effect is very handy. Unfortunately I have them as Text buttons and a nice little icon or two would be very handy, even only to save toolbar space. Best regards DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#19
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Okay, I've posted a template at
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/CustomToolbar.dot. Note that when you click on this URL and get the usual Save or Open dialog, the file will be named CustomToolbar.doc and will want to be saved as a Word document. If you save the file as a document, I suspect it will still act like a template, and I've confirmed that if you change the extension to .dot before saving, it will look like and behave like a template. Since you want to open the file for editing, anyway, perhaps saving as a .doc is the right thing to do. If you like (and IE will let you), you can open it first and read it, then save as desired. Eventually I'll get around to putting up a Web page explaining all this and providing a link to the template, but for now at least the custom buttons are in the template. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... That is the website I was alluding to with "your website" and not one of the multitude of other sites you are connected to. Greatly appreciated. Thanks again DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Yes, I'll post them somewhere at my WordFAQs site. The hard part is remembering to do it! I'll put that on my To Do list for today so I won't forget. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Many thanks. Would somewhere on your website be best? Look forward, as always, to hearing from you. DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: I copied him by email, and he gave his permission for me to share. I'll figure out a way to do it and let you know where they can be found. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Thanks for that Ms Barnhill. Lets hope Mr Franz reads this and is agreeable. I have always had KWN and KLT on my toolbar and use them constantly. As you say the toogle effect is very handy. Unfortunately I have them as Text buttons and a nice little icon or two would be very handy, even only to save toolbar space. Best regards DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#20
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
All done, the condense 0.1pt is an added bonus, many thanks.
All the best to you and yours. DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Okay, I've posted a template at http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/CustomToolbar.dot. Note that when you click on this URL and get the usual Save or Open dialog, the file will be named CustomToolbar.doc and will want to be saved as a Word document. If you save the file as a document, I suspect it will still act like a template, and I've confirmed that if you change the extension to .dot before saving, it will look like and behave like a template. Since you want to open the file for editing, anyway, perhaps saving as a .doc is the right thing to do. If you like (and IE will let you), you can open it first and read it, then save as desired. Eventually I'll get around to putting up a Web page explaining all this and providing a link to the template, but for now at least the custom buttons are in the template. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... That is the website I was alluding to with "your website" and not one of the multitude of other sites you are connected to. Greatly appreciated. Thanks again DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Yes, I'll post them somewhere at my WordFAQs site. The hard part is remembering to do it! I'll put that on my To Do list for today so I won't forget. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Many thanks. Would somewhere on your website be best? Look forward, as always, to hearing from you. DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: I copied him by email, and he gave his permission for me to share. I'll figure out a way to do it and let you know where they can be found. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Thanks for that Ms Barnhill. Lets hope Mr Franz reads this and is agreeable. I have always had KWN and KLT on my toolbar and use them constantly. As you say the toogle effect is very handy. Unfortunately I have them as Text buttons and a nice little icon or two would be very handy, even only to save toolbar space. Best regards DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#21
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Glad you are pleased. The Condense 0.1 pt. was one of the buttons I was most
panicked about losing in Word 2007; thank heavens for Graham's instructions on how to import custom toolbars! Now if MS would just give us a way to add those custom buttons directly to the QAT... One custom button I didn't include was one to run the TableCellHelper macro (I figured including the macro would complicate matters). For it I had used the question mark icon that's included in the limited set you get when you choose Change Button Image. In Word 2007, rather confusingly, this is rendered as the white question mark in a blue circle that is also used for the Help button. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... All done, the condense 0.1pt is an added bonus, many thanks. All the best to you and yours. DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Okay, I've posted a template at http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/CustomToolbar.dot. Note that when you click on this URL and get the usual Save or Open dialog, the file will be named CustomToolbar.doc and will want to be saved as a Word document. If you save the file as a document, I suspect it will still act like a template, and I've confirmed that if you change the extension to .dot before saving, it will look like and behave like a template. Since you want to open the file for editing, anyway, perhaps saving as a .doc is the right thing to do. If you like (and IE will let you), you can open it first and read it, then save as desired. Eventually I'll get around to putting up a Web page explaining all this and providing a link to the template, but for now at least the custom buttons are in the template. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... That is the website I was alluding to with "your website" and not one of the multitude of other sites you are connected to. Greatly appreciated. Thanks again DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Yes, I'll post them somewhere at my WordFAQs site. The hard part is remembering to do it! I'll put that on my To Do list for today so I won't forget. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Many thanks. Would somewhere on your website be best? Look forward, as always, to hearing from you. DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: I copied him by email, and he gave his permission for me to share. I'll figure out a way to do it and let you know where they can be found. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... Thanks for that Ms Barnhill. Lets hope Mr Franz reads this and is agreeable. I have always had KWN and KLT on my toolbar and use them constantly. As you say the toogle effect is very handy. Unfortunately I have them as Text buttons and a nice little icon or two would be very handy, even only to save toolbar space. Best regards DeanH "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Bob either sent them to me privately or posted them in a private binaries forum--I forget which. It's possible he could be persuaded to share them more generally. I'll warn you, though: his have some purple (or at least magenta) in them--rather gaudy; I changed the color to red. g These are among the half-dozen or so custom buttons I moved to Word 2007 as part of a custom toolbar. They're one click less accessible from the QAT but still better than having to open a dialog. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "DeanH" wrote in message ... "buttons for "Keep with next" and "Keep lines together" (and thanks, Robert Franz for the attractive button icons)." Hi Ms Barnhill, in the previous posting you mentioned the above. Where can I get these icons or are they a closely guarded secret? ;-) I have searched Mr Franz's website (Scientific guide) but cannot find such icons. Many thanks in advance DeanH |
#22
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Being a relative power user of Word myself, I am like a lot of others that
find 2007 quite difficult to use as I have trouble finding anything in it. Only last night, I was asked by a neighbour to help her out with some issues she was having doing relatively simple things with Word 2007. Although I managed to help her out, it was a struggle. Admittedly, I have hardly used 2007 at all, so this could be why I had trouble finding things. The point here is that my neighbour has not really used any of the other versions of Word much and found 2007 very difficult to use. To call it intuitive is therefore wrong. Although by the end of the session, I was starting to get to grips with it a bit better, I was not impressed at all. I shall be sticking with 2003 for as long as possible. For instance, to spend such a long time to find the print preview and giving up is not a good sign. Martin "Bob Buckland ?:-)" 75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote in message ... Hi Terry, To an extent I agree, for support folks and corporate types who locked down everything anyway, for many users the Ribbon is 'more predictable' and they probably don't see that anything has been lost. In too many companies the 'show menus after a short delay') is what folks live with after each log in when they're in prior versions. That was pretty much taken away. As to customizing the ribbon, it's true that there there isn't the drag and drop UI built in, but customizing the ribbon via the RibbonX tools and 'language' to rearrange everything is probably not any higher degree of difficulty than it would be to write a macro in VBA (in fact it's easier for me to follow the outline structure of the RibbonX g), but surprisingly very few folks seem to have jumped into that. There is even at least one MS tool, although it's not a WYSIWYG one What is 'fun' is to start Word in Safe Mode (hold ctrl key when starting for those reading who may not be familiar with it) and seeing the 'regular' ribbon if you have customized positions g. Then you can really get confused. Over time, I've noted that there is a definite pause now when I start a prior version and go looking for things as the 'muscle memory' now 'fights' to want to go to the Word 2007 places as first choice when using the mouse g. ============ "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... I don't think anyone will argue that the transition is far more difficult than previous versions. It does get better the more familiar you become but I am convinced that it is NOT easier or more intuitive to use than previous versions. However, this may be because I have been a Word user since Word 2 which is making me prejudiced against this major interface change. The way I see this is that the old interface was like the steering wheel of a car: it is intuitive and works well for everyone whether you are an old granny out shopping or an F1 ace winning the Monaco Grand Prix. A joy stick or a drive-by-wire touch pad would be a disaster for the majority of normal drivers. I think of the ribbon as the latter. Given a 'once and for all' choice between Office 2003 and Office 2007, I have no doubts that I would choose the former because I am concerned that the developers will not resolve the gaping holes they have made of the latter's interface implementation. Yes, I like the look and idea of the Ribbon, but I don't like the choice of tools that have been added in each group. As far as I am concerned, until a user is able to change the layout and tools on the ribbons and create a custom ribbon straight out of the box without need for third party tools, it is a failure. To me the QAT is just a last minute panic measure to overcome the inflexibilities of the Ribbons. -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#23
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I don't think "intuitive" was exactly what MS was shooting for. The term the
developers kept using was "discoverable." The problem with the old menu structure (especially adaptive menus) was that there were so many commands and features that users never discovered (if you read these NGs regularly, you'll be amazed at the number of questions about the very existence of a way to produce, say, footnotes). The idea here was to make everything in-your-face. The other premise of the design (which I think we later demonstrated was based on incorrectly interpreted CEIP data*) was that some hugely high percentage of users never customize anything in the UI. MS concluded that consistency was a desirable goal: that everything should always be in the same place--for all users. This theoretically makes support easier because you can confidently assume that every user has the same buttons in the same groups on the same tabs all the time. I agree that making Print Preview so hard to get to was a step backward. That was one of the first buttons I added to my QAT. I also am still primarily using Word 2003, dipping into 2007 only to attempt to answer users' questions and to try to update my WordFAQs articles. So I also do a lot of wandering around looking for things. I'm sure the placement of features was carefully thought out (and even agonized over), and it is certainly more logical than the "junk drawer" that the Tools menu had become, but it is definitely a huge paradigm shift. *CEIP in Word 2003 reported users' use of commands. I'm not sure it distinguished between clicking buttons and using keyboard shortcuts, hence the continued prominence of the Cut, Copy, and Paste buttons. But the main problem was that a customization was reported, if at all, only once (when the user added a button or menu item). If a user started using Word 2003 with customized toolbars and menus inherited from an earlier version, no customization was reported at all. AIUI, there was no way to reflect that, every time a user used a certain command, it was via an added toolbar button rather than by going through a dialog or choosing from a menu, or that the user had created a custom menu or toolbar or whatever. While I am quite willing to believe that most users *don't* customize, and it is also perhaps true that the users who customize most may well have declined to participate in CEIP, I also believe that customization (including that done by means of custom templates) was vastly underreported. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Martin C" wrote in message ... Being a relative power user of Word myself, I am like a lot of others that find 2007 quite difficult to use as I have trouble finding anything in it. Only last night, I was asked by a neighbour to help her out with some issues she was having doing relatively simple things with Word 2007. Although I managed to help her out, it was a struggle. Admittedly, I have hardly used 2007 at all, so this could be why I had trouble finding things. The point here is that my neighbour has not really used any of the other versions of Word much and found 2007 very difficult to use. To call it intuitive is therefore wrong. Although by the end of the session, I was starting to get to grips with it a bit better, I was not impressed at all. I shall be sticking with 2003 for as long as possible. For instance, to spend such a long time to find the print preview and giving up is not a good sign. Martin "Bob Buckland ?:-)" 75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote in message ... Hi Terry, To an extent I agree, for support folks and corporate types who locked down everything anyway, for many users the Ribbon is 'more predictable' and they probably don't see that anything has been lost. In too many companies the 'show menus after a short delay') is what folks live with after each log in when they're in prior versions. That was pretty much taken away. As to customizing the ribbon, it's true that there there isn't the drag and drop UI built in, but customizing the ribbon via the RibbonX tools and 'language' to rearrange everything is probably not any higher degree of difficulty than it would be to write a macro in VBA (in fact it's easier for me to follow the outline structure of the RibbonX g), but surprisingly very few folks seem to have jumped into that. There is even at least one MS tool, although it's not a WYSIWYG one What is 'fun' is to start Word in Safe Mode (hold ctrl key when starting for those reading who may not be familiar with it) and seeing the 'regular' ribbon if you have customized positions g. Then you can really get confused. Over time, I've noted that there is a definite pause now when I start a prior version and go looking for things as the 'muscle memory' now 'fights' to want to go to the Word 2007 places as first choice when using the mouse g. ============ "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... I don't think anyone will argue that the transition is far more difficult than previous versions. It does get better the more familiar you become but I am convinced that it is NOT easier or more intuitive to use than previous versions. However, this may be because I have been a Word user since Word 2 which is making me prejudiced against this major interface change. The way I see this is that the old interface was like the steering wheel of a car: it is intuitive and works well for everyone whether you are an old granny out shopping or an F1 ace winning the Monaco Grand Prix. A joy stick or a drive-by-wire touch pad would be a disaster for the majority of normal drivers. I think of the ribbon as the latter. Given a 'once and for all' choice between Office 2003 and Office 2007, I have no doubts that I would choose the former because I am concerned that the developers will not resolve the gaping holes they have made of the latter's interface implementation. Yes, I like the look and idea of the Ribbon, but I don't like the choice of tools that have been added in each group. As far as I am concerned, until a user is able to change the layout and tools on the ribbons and create a custom ribbon straight out of the box without need for third party tools, it is a failure. To me the QAT is just a last minute panic measure to overcome the inflexibilities of the Ribbons. -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#24
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Hi Martin - I understand where you're coming from, but it does get better
with exposure - like building up calluses:-) If you haven't discovered them already these are a few things that have helped for me: 1- Get familiar with the Word Options Customize capabilities & take advantage of the Quick Access Toolbar, 2- Look for the Dialog Launchers (little square buttons at the right end of the title bar of some of the Groups on each tab of the Ribbon). In most cases they take you into familiar "Classic" dialogs or provide Task Panes, 3- Get in the habit of using Contextual (Right-Click) menus if you don't already do so. They seem to do a much better job of consolidating related features which would otherwise have to be found on various Ribbon tabs. 4- And, of course, climb into the Wayback Machine to revisit the use of keyboard shortcuts for as much as your memory will support:-) Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 6/13/08 9:47 AM, in article , "Martin C" wrote: Being a relative power user of Word myself, I am like a lot of others that find 2007 quite difficult to use as I have trouble finding anything in it. Only last night, I was asked by a neighbour to help her out with some issues she was having doing relatively simple things with Word 2007. Although I managed to help her out, it was a struggle. Admittedly, I have hardly used 2007 at all, so this could be why I had trouble finding things. The point here is that my neighbour has not really used any of the other versions of Word much and found 2007 very difficult to use. To call it intuitive is therefore wrong. Although by the end of the session, I was starting to get to grips with it a bit better, I was not impressed at all. I shall be sticking with 2003 for as long as possible. For instance, to spend such a long time to find the print preview and giving up is not a good sign. Martin "Bob Buckland ?:-)" 75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote in message ... Hi Terry, To an extent I agree, for support folks and corporate types who locked down everything anyway, for many users the Ribbon is 'more predictable' and they probably don't see that anything has been lost. In too many companies the 'show menus after a short delay') is what folks live with after each log in when they're in prior versions. That was pretty much taken away. As to customizing the ribbon, it's true that there there isn't the drag and drop UI built in, but customizing the ribbon via the RibbonX tools and 'language' to rearrange everything is probably not any higher degree of difficulty than it would be to write a macro in VBA (in fact it's easier for me to follow the outline structure of the RibbonX g), but surprisingly very few folks seem to have jumped into that. There is even at least one MS tool, although it's not a WYSIWYG one What is 'fun' is to start Word in Safe Mode (hold ctrl key when starting for those reading who may not be familiar with it) and seeing the 'regular' ribbon if you have customized positions g. Then you can really get confused. Over time, I've noted that there is a definite pause now when I start a prior version and go looking for things as the 'muscle memory' now 'fights' to want to go to the Word 2007 places as first choice when using the mouse g. ============ "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... I don't think anyone will argue that the transition is far more difficult than previous versions. It does get better the more familiar you become but I am convinced that it is NOT easier or more intuitive to use than previous versions. However, this may be because I have been a Word user since Word 2 which is making me prejudiced against this major interface change. The way I see this is that the old interface was like the steering wheel of a car: it is intuitive and works well for everyone whether you are an old granny out shopping or an F1 ace winning the Monaco Grand Prix. A joy stick or a drive-by-wire touch pad would be a disaster for the majority of normal drivers. I think of the ribbon as the latter. Given a 'once and for all' choice between Office 2003 and Office 2007, I have no doubts that I would choose the former because I am concerned that the developers will not resolve the gaping holes they have made of the latter's interface implementation. Yes, I like the look and idea of the Ribbon, but I don't like the choice of tools that have been added in each group. As far as I am concerned, until a user is able to change the layout and tools on the ribbons and create a custom ribbon straight out of the box without need for third party tools, it is a failure. To me the QAT is just a last minute panic measure to overcome the inflexibilities of the Ribbons. -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#25
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Martin
Two things to help your neighbour... There is the Quick Access Toolbar (the QAT). This lets you add tools that are displayed on the Ribbons. The Print Preview button is one of those that is a must to add. This brings up the second point. That Pizza button in the top left corner of the Word screen is actually the Office button and performs many of the functions of the old File menu and opens using Alt+F. Quite a few upgraders take a while to realise that it isn't just a decoration (embarrassingly, that included me). Clicking on the Print button in the Office menu reveals the Print Preview command. But this brings us back to what is intuitive about Word 2007's ribbons? In my opinion, not much. Intuitive would suggest that the Print Preview command should be part of the Document Views group on the View ribbon - equally if not more logically that under the Office button, Print command. My QAT is quite large which suggest to me that the intuitive part of the ribbons is missing. Terry Farrell "Martin C" wrote in message ... Being a relative power user of Word myself, I am like a lot of others that find 2007 quite difficult to use as I have trouble finding anything in it. Only last night, I was asked by a neighbour to help her out with some issues she was having doing relatively simple things with Word 2007. Although I managed to help her out, it was a struggle. Admittedly, I have hardly used 2007 at all, so this could be why I had trouble finding things. The point here is that my neighbour has not really used any of the other versions of Word much and found 2007 very difficult to use. To call it intuitive is therefore wrong. Although by the end of the session, I was starting to get to grips with it a bit better, I was not impressed at all. I shall be sticking with 2003 for as long as possible. For instance, to spend such a long time to find the print preview and giving up is not a good sign. Martin "Bob Buckland ?:-)" 75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote in message ... Hi Terry, To an extent I agree, for support folks and corporate types who locked down everything anyway, for many users the Ribbon is 'more predictable' and they probably don't see that anything has been lost. In too many companies the 'show menus after a short delay') is what folks live with after each log in when they're in prior versions. That was pretty much taken away. As to customizing the ribbon, it's true that there there isn't the drag and drop UI built in, but customizing the ribbon via the RibbonX tools and 'language' to rearrange everything is probably not any higher degree of difficulty than it would be to write a macro in VBA (in fact it's easier for me to follow the outline structure of the RibbonX g), but surprisingly very few folks seem to have jumped into that. There is even at least one MS tool, although it's not a WYSIWYG one What is 'fun' is to start Word in Safe Mode (hold ctrl key when starting for those reading who may not be familiar with it) and seeing the 'regular' ribbon if you have customized positions g. Then you can really get confused. Over time, I've noted that there is a definite pause now when I start a prior version and go looking for things as the 'muscle memory' now 'fights' to want to go to the Word 2007 places as first choice when using the mouse g. ============ "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... I don't think anyone will argue that the transition is far more difficult than previous versions. It does get better the more familiar you become but I am convinced that it is NOT easier or more intuitive to use than previous versions. However, this may be because I have been a Word user since Word 2 which is making me prejudiced against this major interface change. The way I see this is that the old interface was like the steering wheel of a car: it is intuitive and works well for everyone whether you are an old granny out shopping or an F1 ace winning the Monaco Grand Prix. A joy stick or a drive-by-wire touch pad would be a disaster for the majority of normal drivers. I think of the ribbon as the latter. Given a 'once and for all' choice between Office 2003 and Office 2007, I have no doubts that I would choose the former because I am concerned that the developers will not resolve the gaping holes they have made of the latter's interface implementation. Yes, I like the look and idea of the Ribbon, but I don't like the choice of tools that have been added in each group. As far as I am concerned, until a user is able to change the layout and tools on the ribbons and create a custom ribbon straight out of the box without need for third party tools, it is a failure. To me the QAT is just a last minute panic measure to overcome the inflexibilities of the Ribbons. -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#26
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I agree about views. It makes no sense not to have Print Preview on the View
tab. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... Martin Two things to help your neighbour... There is the Quick Access Toolbar (the QAT). This lets you add tools that are displayed on the Ribbons. The Print Preview button is one of those that is a must to add. This brings up the second point. That Pizza button in the top left corner of the Word screen is actually the Office button and performs many of the functions of the old File menu and opens using Alt+F. Quite a few upgraders take a while to realise that it isn't just a decoration (embarrassingly, that included me). Clicking on the Print button in the Office menu reveals the Print Preview command. But this brings us back to what is intuitive about Word 2007's ribbons? In my opinion, not much. Intuitive would suggest that the Print Preview command should be part of the Document Views group on the View ribbon - equally if not more logically that under the Office button, Print command. My QAT is quite large which suggest to me that the intuitive part of the ribbons is missing. Terry Farrell "Martin C" wrote in message ... Being a relative power user of Word myself, I am like a lot of others that find 2007 quite difficult to use as I have trouble finding anything in it. Only last night, I was asked by a neighbour to help her out with some issues she was having doing relatively simple things with Word 2007. Although I managed to help her out, it was a struggle. Admittedly, I have hardly used 2007 at all, so this could be why I had trouble finding things. The point here is that my neighbour has not really used any of the other versions of Word much and found 2007 very difficult to use. To call it intuitive is therefore wrong. Although by the end of the session, I was starting to get to grips with it a bit better, I was not impressed at all. I shall be sticking with 2003 for as long as possible. For instance, to spend such a long time to find the print preview and giving up is not a good sign. Martin "Bob Buckland ?:-)" 75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote in message ... Hi Terry, To an extent I agree, for support folks and corporate types who locked down everything anyway, for many users the Ribbon is 'more predictable' and they probably don't see that anything has been lost. In too many companies the 'show menus after a short delay') is what folks live with after each log in when they're in prior versions. That was pretty much taken away. As to customizing the ribbon, it's true that there there isn't the drag and drop UI built in, but customizing the ribbon via the RibbonX tools and 'language' to rearrange everything is probably not any higher degree of difficulty than it would be to write a macro in VBA (in fact it's easier for me to follow the outline structure of the RibbonX g), but surprisingly very few folks seem to have jumped into that. There is even at least one MS tool, although it's not a WYSIWYG one What is 'fun' is to start Word in Safe Mode (hold ctrl key when starting for those reading who may not be familiar with it) and seeing the 'regular' ribbon if you have customized positions g. Then you can really get confused. Over time, I've noted that there is a definite pause now when I start a prior version and go looking for things as the 'muscle memory' now 'fights' to want to go to the Word 2007 places as first choice when using the mouse g. ============ "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... I don't think anyone will argue that the transition is far more difficult than previous versions. It does get better the more familiar you become but I am convinced that it is NOT easier or more intuitive to use than previous versions. However, this may be because I have been a Word user since Word 2 which is making me prejudiced against this major interface change. The way I see this is that the old interface was like the steering wheel of a car: it is intuitive and works well for everyone whether you are an old granny out shopping or an F1 ace winning the Monaco Grand Prix. A joy stick or a drive-by-wire touch pad would be a disaster for the majority of normal drivers. I think of the ribbon as the latter. Given a 'once and for all' choice between Office 2003 and Office 2007, I have no doubts that I would choose the former because I am concerned that the developers will not resolve the gaping holes they have made of the latter's interface implementation. Yes, I like the look and idea of the Ribbon, but I don't like the choice of tools that have been added in each group. As far as I am concerned, until a user is able to change the layout and tools on the ribbons and create a custom ribbon straight out of the box without need for third party tools, it is a failure. To me the QAT is just a last minute panic measure to overcome the inflexibilities of the Ribbons. -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#27
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Hi Suzanne,
=========== "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... [snip] I agree that making Print Preview so hard to get to was a step backward.[snip] ======== Ahhh, how quickly we forget. Word 2003 out of the box (hold ctrl key to access 'wayback' machine g) File=expand[menus]=Print Preview Word 2007 out of the box Office Button=Print=Print Preview (i.e. the default was 3 clicks, or 2 clicks and one hover in each g) Steps to add Print Preview to toolbar in Word 2003 Tools=Customize= then with that dialog open File=expand=drag print preview, close Customize dialog Steps to add Print Preview to Quick Access Toolbar in Word 2007 Office Button=Print then right click Print Preview, choose 'Add to Quick Access Toolbar' [Imagine how much 'fun' it is to have that 'Expand' menu as the 'locked down' default every day on every Office 2003 app at work g] -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#28
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Are you telling me that Print Preview was not on the Standard menu in Word
2003 by default? I guess my installation must have inherited the setting from either a previous version or an earlier customization. It was certainly on the Word 97 toolbar in an old screen shot I have, and I don't think I added it there. I don't know that it's any faster (fewer clicks), but perhaps it's more "discoverable," that you can add Print Preview in Word 2003 by clicking the arrow at the end of the Standard toolbar (if you can find it with Standard and Formatting sharing a row), choosing Add or Remove Buttons and then Standard (which has always seemed to me an unnecessary extra step) and then clicking on Print Preview. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Bob Buckland ?:-)" 75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote in message ... Hi Suzanne, =========== "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... [snip] I agree that making Print Preview so hard to get to was a step backward.[snip] ======== Ahhh, how quickly we forget. Word 2003 out of the box (hold ctrl key to access 'wayback' machine g) File=expand[menus]=Print Preview Word 2007 out of the box Office Button=Print=Print Preview (i.e. the default was 3 clicks, or 2 clicks and one hover in each g) Steps to add Print Preview to toolbar in Word 2003 Tools=Customize= then with that dialog open File=expand=drag print preview, close Customize dialog Steps to add Print Preview to Quick Access Toolbar in Word 2007 Office Button=Print then right click Print Preview, choose 'Add to Quick Access Toolbar' [Imagine how much 'fun' it is to have that 'Expand' menu as the 'locked down' default every day on every Office 2003 app at work g] -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#29
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Yeah, you got him there, Suzanne:-)
In every version of Word I can recall [going back to Word 1.0 on the Mac] there has been a Print Preview button on the Standard toolbar as an out-of-the-box feature - right next to the Print button. It never had to be added to a toolbar as an optional customization prior to Word 2007 - unless you wanted it elsewhere as well or instead of the default location. If developments on the Mac are any indication of coming trends in Windows - not that such a thing would ever happen or has ever happened in the past:-) - print services are being overtly assumed by the OS & printer software. MS may be weaning their apps away from Print Preview altogether - in Office:Mac 2008 it's already been removed completely from Excel & PowerPoint. Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 6/13/08 11:34 PM, in article , "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Are you telling me that Print Preview was not on the Standard menu in Word 2003 by default? I guess my installation must have inherited the setting from either a previous version or an earlier customization. It was certainly on the Word 97 toolbar in an old screen shot I have, and I don't think I added it there. I don't know that it's any faster (fewer clicks), but perhaps it's more "discoverable," that you can add Print Preview in Word 2003 by clicking the arrow at the end of the Standard toolbar (if you can find it with Standard and Formatting sharing a row), choosing Add or Remove Buttons and then Standard (which has always seemed to me an unnecessary extra step) and then clicking on Print Preview. |
#30
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I haven't had a chance to test yet, but Bob is probably right about Word
2003 (he almost always is). OHOH, I have a book on Office XP that clearly shows the Print Preview button on the toolbar in that version, so I imagine anyone who upgraded from Word 2002 to 2003 (as I did) would have had it. I can't remember what I've done wrt moving my Normal.dot when I got a new computer. I know I moved it from Word 2003 on my previous machine to Word 2003 on this one. In cases where I was starting with a new version (as in the case of Word 2002 on the old machine) I may have started from scratch--just can't recall. I know I did run into some interesting problems with macros in moving from Word 6.0 to Word 95, but that's a story for another time. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "CyberTaz" wrote in message .. . Yeah, you got him there, Suzanne:-) In every version of Word I can recall [going back to Word 1.0 on the Mac] there has been a Print Preview button on the Standard toolbar as an out-of-the-box feature - right next to the Print button. It never had to be added to a toolbar as an optional customization prior to Word 2007 - unless you wanted it elsewhere as well or instead of the default location. If developments on the Mac are any indication of coming trends in Windows - not that such a thing would ever happen or has ever happened in the past:-) - print services are being overtly assumed by the OS & printer software. MS may be weaning their apps away from Print Preview altogether - in Office:Mac 2008 it's already been removed completely from Excel & PowerPoint. Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 6/13/08 11:34 PM, in article , "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote: Are you telling me that Print Preview was not on the Standard menu in Word 2003 by default? I guess my installation must have inherited the setting from either a previous version or an earlier customization. It was certainly on the Word 97 toolbar in an old screen shot I have, and I don't think I added it there. I don't know that it's any faster (fewer clicks), but perhaps it's more "discoverable," that you can add Print Preview in Word 2003 by clicking the arrow at the end of the Standard toolbar (if you can find it with Standard and Formatting sharing a row), choosing Add or Remove Buttons and then Standard (which has always seemed to me an unnecessary extra step) and then clicking on Print Preview. |
#31
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??" (Security settings)
This is a fascinating discussion.
To expand the the topic a bit, I now find that I am a bit confused by the macro security settings. Could someone enlighten me, please. "PA" wrote: I hope it just that this new interface is still strange to me, but I am finding the migration from Office 2007 to be far more difficult than was any previous change. I have used Office since version 97 (in 1998) and have migrated to new releases as the minds in Washington state decided it was time for me to change. Those were all painless. Any and all opinion are welcomed to help enlighten me. And by the way, Ron deBruin, an Excel MVP has an excellent site at http://www.rondebruin.nl/0307commands.html. It is related to Excel, but may prove valuable for Word and PowerPoint as well. |
#32
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Okay, I had to use Safe Mode for something else, so I did this. Even with
the toolbars on a single row, I still have the Print Preview button. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Bob Buckland ?:-)" 75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote in message ... Hi Suzanne, =========== "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... [snip] I agree that making Print Preview so hard to get to was a step backward.[snip] ======== Ahhh, how quickly we forget. Word 2003 out of the box (hold ctrl key to access 'wayback' machine g) File=expand[menus]=Print Preview Word 2007 out of the box Office Button=Print=Print Preview (i.e. the default was 3 clicks, or 2 clicks and one hover in each g) Steps to add Print Preview to toolbar in Word 2003 Tools=Customize= then with that dialog open File=expand=drag print preview, close Customize dialog Steps to add Print Preview to Quick Access Toolbar in Word 2007 Office Button=Print then right click Print Preview, choose 'Add to Quick Access Toolbar' [Imagine how much 'fun' it is to have that 'Expand' menu as the 'locked down' default every day on every Office 2003 app at work g] -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#33
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??" (Security settings)
A very thourough explanation is found at
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...chNet.10).aspx "PA" wrote: This is a fascinating discussion. To expand the the topic a bit, I now find that I am a bit confused by the macro security settings. Could someone enlighten me, please. "PA" wrote: I hope it just that this new interface is still strange to me, but I am finding the migration from Office 2007 to be far more difficult than was any previous change. I have used Office since version 97 (in 1998) and have migrated to new releases as the minds in Washington state decided it was time for me to change. Those were all painless. Any and all opinion are welcomed to help enlighten me. And by the way, Ron deBruin, an Excel MVP has an excellent site at http://www.rondebruin.nl/0307commands.html. It is related to Excel, but may prove valuable for Word and PowerPoint as well. |
#34
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Hi Taz,
Actually I got myself on that one What I had forgotten was the effect of not having used Tools=Customize=Options=[Reset Menu and Toolbar Usage Data] In a locked down Office deployment (i.e. where things reset after every session for the next login), if the 'everyone the same' cloning occured (as it did in the common profile at work) with usage data from testing still stored, not reset, then the 'default' positions of the buttons (including Print Preview) are different for that 'startup' experience than the original 'out of the box' ones. As this one covers a whole lot of users g the help desk position has been that to change it would cause more confusion and since the CIO received compensation in the 7-figure range last year, it's a bit tough to get things changed that are set in. ============= "CyberTaz" wrote in message .. . Yeah, you got him there, Suzanne:-) In every version of Word I can recall [going back to Word 1.0 on the Mac] there has been a Print Preview button on the Standard toolbar as an out-of-the-box feature - right next to the Print button. It never had to be added to a toolbar as an optional customization prior to Word 2007 - unless you wanted it elsewhere as well or instead of the default location. If developments on the Mac are any indication of coming trends in Windows - not that such a thing would ever happen or has ever happened in the past:-) - print services are being overtly assumed by the OS & printer software. MS may be weaning their apps away from Print Preview altogether - in Office:Mac 2008 it's already been removed completely from Excel & PowerPoint. Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac |
#35
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Hi Marsoupeal,
It's interesting to see some of the comments on the Ribbon change. I recall when Windows came out, similar discussions and complaints about how almost everything worked, including the layout of the menu bar and what items were listed under those. It wasn't an overnight success for folks finding that interface 'intuitive' either. Even when the switch came from things like CP/M to MS-DOS there were complaints that Microsoft 'dared' to change some of the command line tools so that instead of CP/M's convention for changing a name of a file using REN NewName = Oldname to Microsoft using REN OldName Newname or Microsoft changing the CP/M PIP [multifunction] command name to COPY. Folks (far fewer 'end users' g in those days ) said they were sure it would cause no end of confusion and trouble and would of course, fail in the end g. Today, any change can impact so many users and their daily routines that it's a bit more daring to make a switch than it was in ye olden dayes, although some folks don't notice that throughout their day that they are switching through differing keyboard and screen layouts with a variety of devices all day long with little thought to the switch in the keyboard and displays (computer, cell phone, MP3 player, TV/DVR remote, office copier, digital dashboards in cars) There was another 'debate' with 'strong positions' over the number of buttons on a mouse for Apple vs Microsoft, and who was right, and so on . Of course now we've all learned from folks doing txting on cell phones that you can actually master an interface while being 'all thumbs'. ========== Marsoupeal wrote in message ... But some features, like word's built in calulator, are harder to "discover" now. In some ways, the trouble is MS stayed with the toolbars too long, till they became set in stone in many users' and especially business users' minds. Incidentally the ribbon system is not totally new to software. I remember seeing it as long ago as 2000 in the web editor 1stpage 2000, (nothing to do with Microsoft or Frontpage 2000 as far as I know.) But I think Microsoft's business users are more conservative than the average computer user. -- Bob Buckland ?:-) MS Office System Products MVP *Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends* |
#36
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA We're not just suffering - we're giving up. I have tried, I really have, to adjust to the new interface, but I've come to loathe it so much I've gone back to Word 2003. If Microsoft doesn't improve this in their next version, then when 2003 is not working for me any longer, I will have to seriously look elsewhere for my word processing needs. I never thought I would ever give up on any version of Word, but I'm giving up now. (I've been a power user since Word 3.0, so it's a painful epiphany that Word isn't the right program for me any more.) |
#37
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I installed Word 2007 side-by-side with Word 2003, knowing that I would
probably use 2007 only for reference in answering users' simpler questions. I still use Word 2003 for production work and probably will continue to do so for some time. I've done a few things in 2007 (my blog, letters to my kids using Word 2003 templates), but I would have to have a lot more time to play around with it to get comfortable enough to want to use it full time. I despair of ever knowing how numbering works, though I must get that figured out in order to update some of my Web articles. So far I haven't gotten a round enough tuit for that. g -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "starcat" wrote in message ... "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA We're not just suffering - we're giving up. I have tried, I really have, to adjust to the new interface, but I've come to loathe it so much I've gone back to Word 2003. If Microsoft doesn't improve this in their next version, then when 2003 is not working for me any longer, I will have to seriously look elsewhere for my word processing needs. I never thought I would ever give up on any version of Word, but I'm giving up now. (I've been a power user since Word 3.0, so it's a painful epiphany that Word isn't the right program for me any more.) |
#38
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Much the same here. About the only things I use Word 2007 for are writing
letters (because I converted one of my templates to 2007 early on) and for vba programming, because the vba help is better. I still use Word 2003 for anything complicated, because it is second nature to do so. I said early on that Microsoft had not considered the huge training implications of such a radical change. I still think that the good parts of this application are far outweighed by the inconvenience of the changes to the interface. I have however updated my web articles -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote: I installed Word 2007 side-by-side with Word 2003, knowing that I would probably use 2007 only for reference in answering users' simpler questions. I still use Word 2003 for production work and probably will continue to do so for some time. I've done a few things in 2007 (my blog, letters to my kids using Word 2003 templates), but I would have to have a lot more time to play around with it to get comfortable enough to want to use it full time. I despair of ever knowing how numbering works, though I must get that figured out in order to update some of my Web articles. So far I haven't gotten a round enough tuit for that. g "starcat" wrote in message ... "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA We're not just suffering - we're giving up. I have tried, I really have, to adjust to the new interface, but I've come to loathe it so much I've gone back to Word 2003. If Microsoft doesn't improve this in their next version, then when 2003 is not working for me any longer, I will have to seriously look elsewhere for my word processing needs. I never thought I would ever give up on any version of Word, but I'm giving up now. (I've been a power user since Word 3.0, so it's a painful epiphany that Word isn't the right program for me any more.) |
#39
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
I am about to purchase a new Notebook: guess what I'll be installing...
-- Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP "starcat" wrote in message ... "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA We're not just suffering - we're giving up. I have tried, I really have, to adjust to the new interface, but I've come to loathe it so much I've gone back to Word 2003. If Microsoft doesn't improve this in their next version, then when 2003 is not working for me any longer, I will have to seriously look elsewhere for my word processing needs. I never thought I would ever give up on any version of Word, but I'm giving up now. (I've been a power user since Word 3.0, so it's a painful epiphany that Word isn't the right program for me any more.) |
#40
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Word 2007 is "More intuitive??"
Hard to say. You seem to have come to terms with 2007, but from the tenor of
this thread, should I guess 2003? -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA "Terry Farrell" wrote in message ... I am about to purchase a new Notebook: guess what I'll be installing... -- Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP "starcat" wrote in message ... "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... The experience seems to be that the new UI is more intuitive for brand-new users and not too difficult for casual users to get used to. Longtime power users, the ones who knew where every command was on every menu and where every button was in every dialog or on every toolbar (and had their toolbars and menus extensively customized), are the ones who are really suffering. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA We're not just suffering - we're giving up. I have tried, I really have, to adjust to the new interface, but I've come to loathe it so much I've gone back to Word 2003. If Microsoft doesn't improve this in their next version, then when 2003 is not working for me any longer, I will have to seriously look elsewhere for my word processing needs. I never thought I would ever give up on any version of Word, but I'm giving up now. (I've been a power user since Word 3.0, so it's a painful epiphany that Word isn't the right program for me any more.) |
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