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Font styles not fully recognized in Word
I'm hoping you can help with a nagging font problem.
Washington State University has an Adobe font family called Stone that is the standard for our university -- it includes bold, semibold, medium, italic, etc. I edit a publication that we write in MS Word then we pull the copy into InDesign to design the publication. We "mapped" created a "styles and formats" pallete in Word, but Word won't recognize all the Stone font styles or accurately label them. Primary Example: it doesn't recognize the Stone "medium" or Stone "semibold" fonts. Instead, Word labels the medium font as Stone "regular". So, when we bring our files into InDesign, InDesign says it can't find the "regular" font. So, we have to identify and redirect the fonts. Then, we have to highlight the text in articles, and use the InDesign style sheet to convert them into the correct typeface. It's all quite time consuming. QUESTION: Is there a way to adjust Word so it can recognize and use all the Stone fonts.... especially Stone medium font -- and NOT relabel medium as "regular"... (or totally ignore the semibold font)." Thanks in advance for your help -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University |
#2
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Font styles not fully recognized in Word
Hi Robert -
I don't claim to be an expert here, but this may be one approach. I believe the problem stems from the fact that Word *isn't* particularly strong in the typography department combined with the fact that you are dealing with variants within the same font family - Word recognizes the _family_ but not the _variants_ within it. What if you create character styles in Word with names that identify which variant they are "supposed" to be - such as StoneSemi - regardless of how Word actually sees them... the style could be formatted as Comic Sans for that matter. Second, create a corresponding char. style in ID that specs the *correct* typeface & map the 'phony' Word style to it. I don't have Stone, but I did a quick test with Lucida Sans Demibold & Demibold Italic. The 2 char styles I created in Word were *exactly the same* except for their name, using Lucida Sans regular. I then created 2 char styles in ID, one spec'd as LSDb, the other spec'd as LSDbI, mapped accordingly & it seemed to work fine when I did the import. -- HTH |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "r frank" wrote in message ... I'm hoping you can help with a nagging font problem. Washington State University has an Adobe font family called Stone that is the standard for our university -- it includes bold, semibold, medium, italic, etc. I edit a publication that we write in MS Word then we pull the copy into InDesign to design the publication. We "mapped" created a "styles and formats" pallete in Word, but Word won't recognize all the Stone font styles or accurately label them. Primary Example: it doesn't recognize the Stone "medium" or Stone "semibold" fonts. Instead, Word labels the medium font as Stone "regular". So, when we bring our files into InDesign, InDesign says it can't find the "regular" font. So, we have to identify and redirect the fonts. Then, we have to highlight the text in articles, and use the InDesign style sheet to convert them into the correct typeface. It's all quite time consuming. QUESTION: Is there a way to adjust Word so it can recognize and use all the Stone fonts.... especially Stone medium font -- and NOT relabel medium as "regular"... (or totally ignore the semibold font)." Thanks in advance for your help -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University |
#3
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Font styles not fully recognized in Word
CyberTaz:
Thanks... that's the direction I wanted to head, and it sounds like a viable solution. However, can you describe for me how you actually change or rename the way Word looks at that font or names it? When I go into Wordformatfonts it still shows "font" as ITC Stone Serif and the "font style" "regular" ... Can I change that label from regular to something else? If not, InDesign keeps looking for a font with that label then says it's unable to locate that font, and want you to specify a substitution. And you have to go through that process everytime you place a piece of copy... and we place hundreds with each issue. Maybe I'm missing what you're saying ... We have a multitude of "mapped styles" in our Word template file... but in the end they still come up showing as using a Stone Serif or San Serif "regular" when I import or place them into InDesign. It appears to the be the set default label in Word. Sorry if I missed what you were saying earlier. Thanks in advance for your time and insights. Bob Frank Washington State University http://www.wsutoday.wsu.edu -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University "CyberTaz" wrote: Hi Robert - I don't claim to be an expert here, but this may be one approach. I believe the problem stems from the fact that Word *isn't* particularly strong in the typography department combined with the fact that you are dealing with variants within the same font family - Word recognizes the _family_ but not the _variants_ within it. What if you create character styles in Word with names that identify which variant they are "supposed" to be - such as StoneSemi - regardless of how Word actually sees them... the style could be formatted as Comic Sans for that matter. Second, create a corresponding char. style in ID that specs the *correct* typeface & map the 'phony' Word style to it. I don't have Stone, but I did a quick test with Lucida Sans Demibold & Demibold Italic. The 2 char styles I created in Word were *exactly the same* except for their name, using Lucida Sans regular. I then created 2 char styles in ID, one spec'd as LSDb, the other spec'd as LSDbI, mapped accordingly & it seemed to work fine when I did the import. -- HTH |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "r frank" wrote in message ... I'm hoping you can help with a nagging font problem. Washington State University has an Adobe font family called Stone that is the standard for our university -- it includes bold, semibold, medium, italic, etc. I edit a publication that we write in MS Word then we pull the copy into InDesign to design the publication. We "mapped" created a "styles and formats" pallete in Word, but Word won't recognize all the Stone font styles or accurately label them. Primary Example: it doesn't recognize the Stone "medium" or Stone "semibold" fonts. Instead, Word labels the medium font as Stone "regular". So, when we bring our files into InDesign, InDesign says it can't find the "regular" font. So, we have to identify and redirect the fonts. Then, we have to highlight the text in articles, and use the InDesign style sheet to convert them into the correct typeface. It's all quite time consuming. QUESTION: Is there a way to adjust Word so it can recognize and use all the Stone fonts.... especially Stone medium font -- and NOT relabel medium as "regular"... (or totally ignore the semibold font)." Thanks in advance for your help -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University |
#4
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Font styles not fully recognized in Word
Hello Robert - Please see the interjections & reply below:
"r frank" wrote in message ... CyberTaz: Thanks... that's the direction I wanted to head, and it sounds like a viable solution. However, can you describe for me how you actually change or rename the way Word looks at that font or names it? Word simply presents the fonts that are installed on the system where it is being used. It reads the names from the actual font files in the system's fonts folder. I don't know if you can change them or not, but even if you *can* I wouldn't - fonts are temperamental enough without confusing the issue by altering their identities When I go into Wordformatfonts it still shows "font" as ITC Stone Serif and the "font style" "regular" ... Can I change that label from regular to something else? All actual installed fonts *should* appear in the list - If there is a separate file for each font in the "family" - ITC Stone Serif, ITC Stone Sans Serif, ITC Stone Serif Demibold, etc. - they should all appear in the list. the 'Master' of any font will typically offer Regular, Bold, Italic & Bold Italic in the Font Style: list to the right of the Font: list itself. (Certain fonts will not present the complete set of styles - such as Brush Script MT - others will include more - such as Lucida Sans, which lists Regular, Italic, Demibold Roman, Demibold Italic & Demibold in the style list. (Just for clarification though, let me emphasize that the term "style" as used in that dialog shouldn't be confused with a user-defined Character Style.) If not, InDesign keeps looking for a font with that label then says it's unable to locate that font, and want you to specify a substitution. And you have to go through that process everytime you place a piece of copy... and we place hundreds with each issue. This as well as the above statements lead me to suspect a possibility that has nothing to do with Word or ID specifically. As suggested above, unless the user specifies otherwise, Stone Serif *is* Regular to both Word & ID - that simply means _not_ bold, _not_ italic, _not_ both - . A common change would be to apply Bold, in which case the program will comply by A) using Stone Serif Bold *if* it is installed as a font, or B) employ a "universal" value in the algorithm to impose bold formatting on the text. IOW, there can be a difference between using XYZfontBold as opposed to using XYZfont(regular) with the bold attribute applied to it when there is no XYZfontBold available. A variants like Demibold is typically not in the list of font styles unless it is installed as a separate font file. There could also be a difference in how the content being placed is interpreted dependent on whether the Word text was actually formatted using Character & Paragraph Styles or was formatted using direct formatting (using the FormatFont/Para menu or the toolbar controls for bold, italic, etc.). Maybe I'm missing what you're saying ... We have a multitude of "mapped styles" in our Word template file... but in the end they still come up showing as using a Stone Serif or San Serif "regular" when I import or place them into InDesign. It appears to the be the set default label in Word. Sorry if I missed what you were saying earlier. I don't think you really missed anything... in fact, I could be misinterpreting the situation altogether - which is far more likely Thanks in advance for your time and insights. Bob Frank Washington State University http://www.wsutoday.wsu.edu -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University But if either of these two programs need to do font substitution [1] *or* don't present fonts in the font list it suggests one of two things: 1) The font is *not* installed on the system opening the file _and_ the font hasn't been embedded in the document, or 2) The font file is corrupt & can't be recognized by the program that's trying to locate it. Especially if the Word docs are being generated on different systems than the ones using ID the first thing I would check is that all systems involved in the workflow have the same versions & the same variations of the same fonts installed. If that is the case the next thing is to reinstall the fonts on any systems where the font file is physically present in the Fonts folder but *not* appearing in the application's list of fonts. Other than the obvious suggestion that you double-check your ID Import Options settings I don't know what else to suggest. [1] Not all programs (i.e., Word) notify the user when font substitution takes place. Since ID *does* you may be having subs done in Word as well without realizing it. Check ToolsOptions - Compatibility -- Font Substitution if you suspect that might be the case. -- Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "CyberTaz" wrote: Hi Robert - I don't claim to be an expert here, but this may be one approach. I believe the problem stems from the fact that Word *isn't* particularly strong in the typography department combined with the fact that you are dealing with variants within the same font family - Word recognizes the _family_ but not the _variants_ within it. What if you create character styles in Word with names that identify which variant they are "supposed" to be - such as StoneSemi - regardless of how Word actually sees them... the style could be formatted as Comic Sans for that matter. Second, create a corresponding char. style in ID that specs the *correct* typeface & map the 'phony' Word style to it. I don't have Stone, but I did a quick test with Lucida Sans Demibold & Demibold Italic. The 2 char styles I created in Word were *exactly the same* except for their name, using Lucida Sans regular. I then created 2 char styles in ID, one spec'd as LSDb, the other spec'd as LSDbI, mapped accordingly & it seemed to work fine when I did the import. -- HTH |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "r frank" wrote in message ... I'm hoping you can help with a nagging font problem. Washington State University has an Adobe font family called Stone that is the standard for our university -- it includes bold, semibold, medium, italic, etc. I edit a publication that we write in MS Word then we pull the copy into InDesign to design the publication. We "mapped" created a "styles and formats" pallete in Word, but Word won't recognize all the Stone font styles or accurately label them. Primary Example: it doesn't recognize the Stone "medium" or Stone "semibold" fonts. Instead, Word labels the medium font as Stone "regular". So, when we bring our files into InDesign, InDesign says it can't find the "regular" font. So, we have to identify and redirect the fonts. Then, we have to highlight the text in articles, and use the InDesign style sheet to convert them into the correct typeface. It's all quite time consuming. QUESTION: Is there a way to adjust Word so it can recognize and use all the Stone fonts.... especially Stone medium font -- and NOT relabel medium as "regular"... (or totally ignore the semibold font)." Thanks in advance for your help -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University |
#5
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Font styles not fully recognized in Word
Bob:
Thanks again. Your last tip regarding font substitution in Word might help reduce some of our load, there was one substitution in there that was off the mark. However, regarding the big issue regarding ITC Stone Serif/Sanserif Semibold .... In reading your message, I think you're indicating that if the font files are loaded separately the Word system might recognize it. Maybe. Currently, ALL the Adobe Stone fonts are listed "independently" in the WINNT\Fonts\ folder -- including semibold. As you noted the primarly Stone Serif / Sanserif are listed without any secondary notation... hence the "regular" default. Anyway... to beat the proverbial dead horse. It appears that since the semibold file is already shown in the WINNT\font folder, it probably won't do any good to go any further, right? Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University "CyberTaz" wrote: Hello Robert - Please see the interjections & reply below: "r frank" wrote in message ... CyberTaz: Thanks... that's the direction I wanted to head, and it sounds like a viable solution. However, can you describe for me how you actually change or rename the way Word looks at that font or names it? Word simply presents the fonts that are installed on the system where it is being used. It reads the names from the actual font files in the system's fonts folder. I don't know if you can change them or not, but even if you *can* I wouldn't - fonts are temperamental enough without confusing the issue by altering their identities When I go into Wordformatfonts it still shows "font" as ITC Stone Serif and the "font style" "regular" ... Can I change that label from regular to something else? All actual installed fonts *should* appear in the list - If there is a separate file for each font in the "family" - ITC Stone Serif, ITC Stone Sans Serif, ITC Stone Serif Demibold, etc. - they should all appear in the list. the 'Master' of any font will typically offer Regular, Bold, Italic & Bold Italic in the Font Style: list to the right of the Font: list itself. (Certain fonts will not present the complete set of styles - such as Brush Script MT - others will include more - such as Lucida Sans, which lists Regular, Italic, Demibold Roman, Demibold Italic & Demibold in the style list. (Just for clarification though, let me emphasize that the term "style" as used in that dialog shouldn't be confused with a user-defined Character Style.) If not, InDesign keeps looking for a font with that label then says it's unable to locate that font, and want you to specify a substitution. And you have to go through that process everytime you place a piece of copy... and we place hundreds with each issue. This as well as the above statements lead me to suspect a possibility that has nothing to do with Word or ID specifically. As suggested above, unless the user specifies otherwise, Stone Serif *is* Regular to both Word & ID - that simply means _not_ bold, _not_ italic, _not_ both - . A common change would be to apply Bold, in which case the program will comply by A) using Stone Serif Bold *if* it is installed as a font, or B) employ a "universal" value in the algorithm to impose bold formatting on the text. IOW, there can be a difference between using XYZfontBold as opposed to using XYZfont(regular) with the bold attribute applied to it when there is no XYZfontBold available. A variants like Demibold is typically not in the list of font styles unless it is installed as a separate font file. There could also be a difference in how the content being placed is interpreted dependent on whether the Word text was actually formatted using Character & Paragraph Styles or was formatted using direct formatting (using the FormatFont/Para menu or the toolbar controls for bold, italic, etc.). Maybe I'm missing what you're saying ... We have a multitude of "mapped styles" in our Word template file... but in the end they still come up showing as using a Stone Serif or San Serif "regular" when I import or place them into InDesign. It appears to the be the set default label in Word. Sorry if I missed what you were saying earlier. I don't think you really missed anything... in fact, I could be misinterpreting the situation altogether - which is far more likely Thanks in advance for your time and insights. Bob Frank Washington State University http://www.wsutoday.wsu.edu -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University But if either of these two programs need to do font substitution [1] *or* don't present fonts in the font list it suggests one of two things: 1) The font is *not* installed on the system opening the file _and_ the font hasn't been embedded in the document, or 2) The font file is corrupt & can't be recognized by the program that's trying to locate it. Especially if the Word docs are being generated on different systems than the ones using ID the first thing I would check is that all systems involved in the workflow have the same versions & the same variations of the same fonts installed. If that is the case the next thing is to reinstall the fonts on any systems where the font file is physically present in the Fonts folder but *not* appearing in the application's list of fonts. Other than the obvious suggestion that you double-check your ID Import Options settings I don't know what else to suggest. [1] Not all programs (i.e., Word) notify the user when font substitution takes place. Since ID *does* you may be having subs done in Word as well without realizing it. Check ToolsOptions - Compatibility -- Font Substitution if you suspect that might be the case. -- Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "CyberTaz" wrote: Hi Robert - I don't claim to be an expert here, but this may be one approach. I believe the problem stems from the fact that Word *isn't* particularly strong in the typography department combined with the fact that you are dealing with variants within the same font family - Word recognizes the _family_ but not the _variants_ within it. What if you create character styles in Word with names that identify which variant they are "supposed" to be - such as StoneSemi - regardless of how Word actually sees them... the style could be formatted as Comic Sans for that matter. Second, create a corresponding char. style in ID that specs the *correct* typeface & map the 'phony' Word style to it. I don't have Stone, but I did a quick test with Lucida Sans Demibold & Demibold Italic. The 2 char styles I created in Word were *exactly the same* except for their name, using Lucida Sans regular. I then created 2 char styles in ID, one spec'd as LSDb, the other spec'd as LSDbI, mapped accordingly & it seemed to work fine when I did the import. -- HTH |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "r frank" wrote in message ... I'm hoping you can help with a nagging font problem. Washington State University has an Adobe font family called Stone that is the standard for our university -- it includes bold, semibold, medium, italic, etc. I edit a publication that we write in MS Word then we pull the copy into InDesign to design the publication. We "mapped" created a "styles and formats" pallete in Word, but Word won't recognize all the Stone font styles or accurately label them. Primary Example: it doesn't recognize the Stone "medium" or Stone "semibold" fonts. Instead, Word labels the medium font as Stone "regular". So, when we bring our files into InDesign, InDesign says it can't find the "regular" font. So, we have to identify and redirect the fonts. Then, we have to highlight the text in articles, and use the InDesign style sheet to convert them into the correct typeface. It's all quite time consuming. QUESTION: Is there a way to adjust Word so it can recognize and use all the Stone fonts.... especially Stone medium font -- and NOT relabel medium as "regular"... (or totally ignore the semibold font)." Thanks in advance for your help -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University |
#6
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Font styles not fully recognized in Word
Yessir - that's how I understand it. If the item is a legitimate font file
it *should* show up in either the list of font names _or_ in the list of font styles, depending on whether it is designed as a font or as a variant/style (which can apply to multiple fonts in the same family). using Lucida Grande once again as an example, I have the following items in the Windows Fonts folder: Lucida Sans Regular Lucida Sans Demibold Lucida Sans Demibold Oblique Lucida Sans Italic Lucida Sans Demibold Roman Lucida Sans Italic However, in Word's Font list only Lucida Sans displays. The variants appear in the adjacent Font Style list simply as Regular, Italic, DemiboldRoman, Demibold Italic & Demibold. Demibold Oblique doesn't show up at all, which tells me that Word can't use it. If you have files in the folder that aren't showing up as *either* then I would have to assume that there is something wrong with the file or (if it is selectable in ID but not Word) Word can't make use of that file. If the font isn't selectable in _either_ ID or Word then there may be a problem with the file.You'd do best to get clarification on that from Adobe. -- Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "r frank" wrote in message ... Bob: Thanks again. Your last tip regarding font substitution in Word might help reduce some of our load, there was one substitution in there that was off the mark. However, regarding the big issue regarding ITC Stone Serif/Sanserif Semibold ... In reading your message, I think you're indicating that if the font files are loaded separately the Word system might recognize it. Maybe. Currently, ALL the Adobe Stone fonts are listed "independently" in the WINNT\Fonts\ folder -- including semibold. As you noted the primarly Stone Serif / Sanserif are listed without any secondary notation... hence the "regular" default. Anyway... to beat the proverbial dead horse. It appears that since the semibold file is already shown in the WINNT\font folder, it probably won't do any good to go any further, right? Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University "CyberTaz" wrote: Hello Robert - Please see the interjections & reply below: "r frank" wrote in message ... CyberTaz: Thanks... that's the direction I wanted to head, and it sounds like a viable solution. However, can you describe for me how you actually change or rename the way Word looks at that font or names it? Word simply presents the fonts that are installed on the system where it is being used. It reads the names from the actual font files in the system's fonts folder. I don't know if you can change them or not, but even if you *can* I wouldn't - fonts are temperamental enough without confusing the issue by altering their identities When I go into Wordformatfonts it still shows "font" as ITC Stone Serif and the "font style" "regular" ... Can I change that label from regular to something else? All actual installed fonts *should* appear in the list - If there is a separate file for each font in the "family" - ITC Stone Serif, ITC Stone Sans Serif, ITC Stone Serif Demibold, etc. - they should all appear in the list. the 'Master' of any font will typically offer Regular, Bold, Italic & Bold Italic in the Font Style: list to the right of the Font: list itself. (Certain fonts will not present the complete set of styles - such as Brush Script MT - others will include more - such as Lucida Sans, which lists Regular, Italic, Demibold Roman, Demibold Italic & Demibold in the style list. (Just for clarification though, let me emphasize that the term "style" as used in that dialog shouldn't be confused with a user-defined Character Style.) If not, InDesign keeps looking for a font with that label then says it's unable to locate that font, and want you to specify a substitution. And you have to go through that process everytime you place a piece of copy... and we place hundreds with each issue. This as well as the above statements lead me to suspect a possibility that has nothing to do with Word or ID specifically. As suggested above, unless the user specifies otherwise, Stone Serif *is* Regular to both Word & ID - that simply means _not_ bold, _not_ italic, _not_ both - . A common change would be to apply Bold, in which case the program will comply by A) using Stone Serif Bold *if* it is installed as a font, or B) employ a "universal" value in the algorithm to impose bold formatting on the text. IOW, there can be a difference between using XYZfontBold as opposed to using XYZfont(regular) with the bold attribute applied to it when there is no XYZfontBold available. A variants like Demibold is typically not in the list of font styles unless it is installed as a separate font file. There could also be a difference in how the content being placed is interpreted dependent on whether the Word text was actually formatted using Character & Paragraph Styles or was formatted using direct formatting (using the FormatFont/Para menu or the toolbar controls for bold, italic, etc.). Maybe I'm missing what you're saying ... We have a multitude of "mapped styles" in our Word template file... but in the end they still come up showing as using a Stone Serif or San Serif "regular" when I import or place them into InDesign. It appears to the be the set default label in Word. Sorry if I missed what you were saying earlier. I don't think you really missed anything... in fact, I could be misinterpreting the situation altogether - which is far more likely Thanks in advance for your time and insights. Bob Frank Washington State University http://www.wsutoday.wsu.edu -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University But if either of these two programs need to do font substitution [1] *or* don't present fonts in the font list it suggests one of two things: 1) The font is *not* installed on the system opening the file _and_ the font hasn't been embedded in the document, or 2) The font file is corrupt & can't be recognized by the program that's trying to locate it. Especially if the Word docs are being generated on different systems than the ones using ID the first thing I would check is that all systems involved in the workflow have the same versions & the same variations of the same fonts installed. If that is the case the next thing is to reinstall the fonts on any systems where the font file is physically present in the Fonts folder but *not* appearing in the application's list of fonts. Other than the obvious suggestion that you double-check your ID Import Options settings I don't know what else to suggest. [1] Not all programs (i.e., Word) notify the user when font substitution takes place. Since ID *does* you may be having subs done in Word as well without realizing it. Check ToolsOptions - Compatibility -- Font Substitution if you suspect that might be the case. -- Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "CyberTaz" wrote: Hi Robert - I don't claim to be an expert here, but this may be one approach. I believe the problem stems from the fact that Word *isn't* particularly strong in the typography department combined with the fact that you are dealing with variants within the same font family - Word recognizes the _family_ but not the _variants_ within it. What if you create character styles in Word with names that identify which variant they are "supposed" to be - such as StoneSemi - regardless of how Word actually sees them... the style could be formatted as Comic Sans for that matter. Second, create a corresponding char. style in ID that specs the *correct* typeface & map the 'phony' Word style to it. I don't have Stone, but I did a quick test with Lucida Sans Demibold & Demibold Italic. The 2 char styles I created in Word were *exactly the same* except for their name, using Lucida Sans regular. I then created 2 char styles in ID, one spec'd as LSDb, the other spec'd as LSDbI, mapped accordingly & it seemed to work fine when I did the import. -- HTH |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "r frank" wrote in message ... I'm hoping you can help with a nagging font problem. Washington State University has an Adobe font family called Stone that is the standard for our university -- it includes bold, semibold, medium, italic, etc. I edit a publication that we write in MS Word then we pull the copy into InDesign to design the publication. We "mapped" created a "styles and formats" pallete in Word, but Word won't recognize all the Stone font styles or accurately label them. Primary Example: it doesn't recognize the Stone "medium" or Stone "semibold" fonts. Instead, Word labels the medium font as Stone "regular". So, when we bring our files into InDesign, InDesign says it can't find the "regular" font. So, we have to identify and redirect the fonts. Then, we have to highlight the text in articles, and use the InDesign style sheet to convert them into the correct typeface. It's all quite time consuming. QUESTION: Is there a way to adjust Word so it can recognize and use all the Stone fonts.... especially Stone medium font -- and NOT relabel medium as "regular"... (or totally ignore the semibold font)." Thanks in advance for your help -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University |
#7
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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Font styles not fully recognized in Word
thanks... i'll get hold of Adobe's font folks again.
take the rest of the day off. bob -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University "CyberTaz" wrote: Yessir - that's how I understand it. If the item is a legitimate font file it *should* show up in either the list of font names _or_ in the list of font styles, depending on whether it is designed as a font or as a variant/style (which can apply to multiple fonts in the same family). using Lucida Grande once again as an example, I have the following items in the Windows Fonts folder: Lucida Sans Regular Lucida Sans Demibold Lucida Sans Demibold Oblique Lucida Sans Italic Lucida Sans Demibold Roman Lucida Sans Italic However, in Word's Font list only Lucida Sans displays. The variants appear in the adjacent Font Style list simply as Regular, Italic, DemiboldRoman, Demibold Italic & Demibold. Demibold Oblique doesn't show up at all, which tells me that Word can't use it. If you have files in the folder that aren't showing up as *either* then I would have to assume that there is something wrong with the file or (if it is selectable in ID but not Word) Word can't make use of that file. If the font isn't selectable in _either_ ID or Word then there may be a problem with the file.You'd do best to get clarification on that from Adobe. -- Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "r frank" wrote in message ... Bob: Thanks again. Your last tip regarding font substitution in Word might help reduce some of our load, there was one substitution in there that was off the mark. However, regarding the big issue regarding ITC Stone Serif/Sanserif Semibold ... In reading your message, I think you're indicating that if the font files are loaded separately the Word system might recognize it. Maybe. Currently, ALL the Adobe Stone fonts are listed "independently" in the WINNT\Fonts\ folder -- including semibold. As you noted the primarly Stone Serif / Sanserif are listed without any secondary notation... hence the "regular" default. Anyway... to beat the proverbial dead horse. It appears that since the semibold file is already shown in the WINNT\font folder, it probably won't do any good to go any further, right? Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University "CyberTaz" wrote: Hello Robert - Please see the interjections & reply below: "r frank" wrote in message ... CyberTaz: Thanks... that's the direction I wanted to head, and it sounds like a viable solution. However, can you describe for me how you actually change or rename the way Word looks at that font or names it? Word simply presents the fonts that are installed on the system where it is being used. It reads the names from the actual font files in the system's fonts folder. I don't know if you can change them or not, but even if you *can* I wouldn't - fonts are temperamental enough without confusing the issue by altering their identities When I go into Wordformatfonts it still shows "font" as ITC Stone Serif and the "font style" "regular" ... Can I change that label from regular to something else? All actual installed fonts *should* appear in the list - If there is a separate file for each font in the "family" - ITC Stone Serif, ITC Stone Sans Serif, ITC Stone Serif Demibold, etc. - they should all appear in the list. the 'Master' of any font will typically offer Regular, Bold, Italic & Bold Italic in the Font Style: list to the right of the Font: list itself. (Certain fonts will not present the complete set of styles - such as Brush Script MT - others will include more - such as Lucida Sans, which lists Regular, Italic, Demibold Roman, Demibold Italic & Demibold in the style list. (Just for clarification though, let me emphasize that the term "style" as used in that dialog shouldn't be confused with a user-defined Character Style.) If not, InDesign keeps looking for a font with that label then says it's unable to locate that font, and want you to specify a substitution. And you have to go through that process everytime you place a piece of copy... and we place hundreds with each issue. This as well as the above statements lead me to suspect a possibility that has nothing to do with Word or ID specifically. As suggested above, unless the user specifies otherwise, Stone Serif *is* Regular to both Word & ID - that simply means _not_ bold, _not_ italic, _not_ both - . A common change would be to apply Bold, in which case the program will comply by A) using Stone Serif Bold *if* it is installed as a font, or B) employ a "universal" value in the algorithm to impose bold formatting on the text. IOW, there can be a difference between using XYZfontBold as opposed to using XYZfont(regular) with the bold attribute applied to it when there is no XYZfontBold available. A variants like Demibold is typically not in the list of font styles unless it is installed as a separate font file. There could also be a difference in how the content being placed is interpreted dependent on whether the Word text was actually formatted using Character & Paragraph Styles or was formatted using direct formatting (using the FormatFont/Para menu or the toolbar controls for bold, italic, etc.). Maybe I'm missing what you're saying ... We have a multitude of "mapped styles" in our Word template file... but in the end they still come up showing as using a Stone Serif or San Serif "regular" when I import or place them into InDesign. It appears to the be the set default label in Word. Sorry if I missed what you were saying earlier. I don't think you really missed anything... in fact, I could be misinterpreting the situation altogether - which is far more likely Thanks in advance for your time and insights. Bob Frank Washington State University http://www.wsutoday.wsu.edu -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University But if either of these two programs need to do font substitution [1] *or* don't present fonts in the font list it suggests one of two things: 1) The font is *not* installed on the system opening the file _and_ the font hasn't been embedded in the document, or 2) The font file is corrupt & can't be recognized by the program that's trying to locate it. Especially if the Word docs are being generated on different systems than the ones using ID the first thing I would check is that all systems involved in the workflow have the same versions & the same variations of the same fonts installed. If that is the case the next thing is to reinstall the fonts on any systems where the font file is physically present in the Fonts folder but *not* appearing in the application's list of fonts. Other than the obvious suggestion that you double-check your ID Import Options settings I don't know what else to suggest. [1] Not all programs (i.e., Word) notify the user when font substitution takes place. Since ID *does* you may be having subs done in Word as well without realizing it. Check ToolsOptions - Compatibility -- Font Substitution if you suspect that might be the case. -- Regards |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "CyberTaz" wrote: Hi Robert - I don't claim to be an expert here, but this may be one approach. I believe the problem stems from the fact that Word *isn't* particularly strong in the typography department combined with the fact that you are dealing with variants within the same font family - Word recognizes the _family_ but not the _variants_ within it. What if you create character styles in Word with names that identify which variant they are "supposed" to be - such as StoneSemi - regardless of how Word actually sees them... the style could be formatted as Comic Sans for that matter. Second, create a corresponding char. style in ID that specs the *correct* typeface & map the 'phony' Word style to it. I don't have Stone, but I did a quick test with Lucida Sans Demibold & Demibold Italic. The 2 char styles I created in Word were *exactly the same* except for their name, using Lucida Sans regular. I then created 2 char styles in ID, one spec'd as LSDb, the other spec'd as LSDbI, mapped accordingly & it seemed to work fine when I did the import. -- HTH |:) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac "r frank" wrote in message ... I'm hoping you can help with a nagging font problem. Washington State University has an Adobe font family called Stone that is the standard for our university -- it includes bold, semibold, medium, italic, etc. I edit a publication that we write in MS Word then we pull the copy into InDesign to design the publication. We "mapped" created a "styles and formats" pallete in Word, but Word won't recognize all the Stone font styles or accurately label them. Primary Example: it doesn't recognize the Stone "medium" or Stone "semibold" fonts. Instead, Word labels the medium font as Stone "regular". So, when we bring our files into InDesign, InDesign says it can't find the "regular" font. So, we have to identify and redirect the fonts. Then, we have to highlight the text in articles, and use the InDesign style sheet to convert them into the correct typeface. It's all quite time consuming. QUESTION: Is there a way to adjust Word so it can recognize and use all the Stone fonts.... especially Stone medium font -- and NOT relabel medium as "regular"... (or totally ignore the semibold font)." Thanks in advance for your help -- Robert Frank, editor WSU Today Washington State University |
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