[Paul]

This is really two questions in one but here we go:
I am putting my thesis together and want to include figures in the main
document so that page numbering is correct. I want each figure
(including caption) to be on its own, otherwise blank, page. However I
may do a lot of editing in the future so ideally I want to be able to
fix the fig&caption in place on page... let's say page 10 and have any
text added to p9 to overflow onto p11 (and, obviously if I delete text
from p9, text from p11 should jump back to p9).

My first attempt used page-sized text boxes but I found out that
captions, TOC and cross references don't work in text boxes because
they are in the 'graphics layer'. So I moved on to frames. However I
don't seem to be able to keep the frame in a fixed place. I have
unchecked 'move object with text' but that doesn't seem to actually do
anything!

So my 2 questions in 1 a
1) How can I REALLY fix a frame in place on page X?
2) Is there a better way to achieve what I am trying to do?

[Jezebel]

There is really no way to do it with Word.

Your problem highlights the fundamental difference between a word processor
and a page layout program. In a word processor like Word, the basic object
is the *content* - the single stream of text and graphics from beginning to
end - to which you apply formatting. 'Page' doesn't figure in the Word
object model at all, except as an artefact of the application of formatting
and the preparation for printing.

A page layout program works the other way round: its basic object is the
*container* - the set of initially empty pages, to which content is then
added.

So your options are --

1. Use a page layout program, like PageMaker or Corel. This is probably a
bad idea for a thesis, since you're likely to need to text processing
features, footnoting, etc.

2. Ignore the problem until you've got your text finalised. Insert the
figures in approximately the right place, let them move around as text is
added and removed; then after the final text edit move them to the required
pages.



"Paul" wrote in message
ups.com...
This is really two questions in one but here we go:
I am putting my thesis together and want to include figures in the main
document so that page numbering is correct. I want each figure
(including caption) to be on its own, otherwise blank, page. However I
may do a lot of editing in the future so ideally I want to be able to
fix the fig&caption in place on page... let's say page 10 and have any
text added to p9 to overflow onto p11 (and, obviously if I delete text
from p9, text from p11 should jump back to p9).

My first attempt used page-sized text boxes but I found out that
captions, TOC and cross references don't work in text boxes because
they are in the 'graphics layer'. So I moved on to frames. However I
don't seem to be able to keep the frame in a fixed place. I have
unchecked 'move object with text' but that doesn't seem to actually do
anything!

So my 2 questions in 1 a
1) How can I REALLY fix a frame in place on page X?
2) Is there a better way to achieve what I am trying to do?

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

To add to what Jezebel has said, the way I handle this is to delay inserting
graphics at all until editing is complete. I just insert a placeholder
("Insert Figure x here"). Then, when editing is complete. I insert the
figure and caption (often in table cells rather than a frame, since they're
going to have to be inline anyway.

The trick is to create the appearance that text is flowing from the page
before the full-page graphic to the page after. If you are using a style
that has a first-line indent and is justified, this requires two tricks, one
for the page before and one for the page after:

1. At the end of the page before your full-page graphic, press Ctrl+Enter to
insert a page break.

2. Insert your graphic and caption and press Ctrl+Enter to insert another
page break.

3. At the bottom of the page before the graphic, press Shift+Enter to insert
a line break. This will justify the last line of text on the page but will
also create a new (blank) line, which won't fit on the page. Display
nonprinting characters and select just the paragraph mark (on the new blank
line) and format it as 1 point. If that doesn't suffice, format it as Hidden
(you'll have to hide nonprinting characters before you see the result).

4. Assuming you're using Body Text First Indent (or the like) for your
indented paragraphs, apply Body Text (with no first-line indent) to the
first paragraph on the page following the graphic.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Jezebel" wrote in message
...
There is really no way to do it with Word.

Your problem highlights the fundamental difference between a word
processor
and a page layout program. In a word processor like Word, the basic object
is the *content* - the single stream of text and graphics from beginning
to
end - to which you apply formatting. 'Page' doesn't figure in the Word
object model at all, except as an artefact of the application of
formatting
and the preparation for printing.

A page layout program works the other way round: its basic object is the
*container* - the set of initially empty pages, to which content is then
added.

So your options are --

1. Use a page layout program, like PageMaker or Corel. This is probably a
bad idea for a thesis, since you're likely to need to text processing
features, footnoting, etc.

2. Ignore the problem until you've got your text finalised. Insert the
figures in approximately the right place, let them move around as text is
added and removed; then after the final text edit move them to the
required
pages.



"Paul" wrote in message
ups.com...
This is really two questions in one but here we go:
I am putting my thesis together and want to include figures in the main
document so that page numbering is correct. I want each figure
(including caption) to be on its own, otherwise blank, page. However I
may do a lot of editing in the future so ideally I want to be able to
fix the fig&caption in place on page... let's say page 10 and have any
text added to p9 to overflow onto p11 (and, obviously if I delete text
from p9, text from p11 should jump back to p9).

My first attempt used page-sized text boxes but I found out that
captions, TOC and cross references don't work in text boxes because
they are in the 'graphics layer'. So I moved on to frames. However I
don't seem to be able to keep the frame in a fixed place. I have
unchecked 'move object with text' but that doesn't seem to actually do
anything!

So my 2 questions in 1 a
1) How can I REALLY fix a frame in place on page X?
2) Is there a better way to achieve what I am trying to do?

[Daiya Mitchell]

For more on Jezebel's point about Word not using pages, see he
http://word.mvps.org/Mac/PagesInWord.html

For general links about long documents like theses, see he
http://daiya.mvps.org/bookword.htm


On 8/30/06 12:36 AM, "Jezebel" wrote:

There is really no way to do it with Word.

Your problem highlights the fundamental difference between a word processor
and a page layout program. In a word processor like Word, the basic object
is the *content* - the single stream of text and graphics from beginning to
end - to which you apply formatting. 'Page' doesn't figure in the Word
object model at all, except as an artefact of the application of formatting
and the preparation for printing.

A page layout program works the other way round: its basic object is the
*container* - the set of initially empty pages, to which content is then
added.

So your options are --

1. Use a page layout program, like PageMaker or Corel. This is probably a
bad idea for a thesis, since you're likely to need to text processing
features, footnoting, etc.

2. Ignore the problem until you've got your text finalised. Insert the
figures in approximately the right place, let them move around as text is
added and removed; then after the final text edit move them to the required
pages.



"Paul" wrote in message
ups.com...
This is really two questions in one but here we go:
I am putting my thesis together and want to include figures in the main
document so that page numbering is correct. I want each figure
(including caption) to be on its own, otherwise blank, page. However I
may do a lot of editing in the future so ideally I want to be able to
fix the fig&caption in place on page... let's say page 10 and have any
text added to p9 to overflow onto p11 (and, obviously if I delete text
from p9, text from p11 should jump back to p9).

My first attempt used page-sized text boxes but I found out that
captions, TOC and cross references don't work in text boxes because
they are in the 'graphics layer'. So I moved on to frames. However I
don't seem to be able to keep the frame in a fixed place. I have
unchecked 'move object with text' but that doesn't seem to actually do
anything!

So my 2 questions in 1 a
1) How can I REALLY fix a frame in place on page X?
2) Is there a better way to achieve what I am trying to do?




--
Daiya Mitchell, MVP Mac/Word
Word FAQ: http://www.word.mvps.org/
MacWord Tips: http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html
What's an MVP? A volunteer! Read the FAQ: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/