[Tom Smith]

Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document in a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply cancelled out
of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of the open
document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

[Stefan Blom]

This is not uncommon when you are opening an existing document or template
created in an earlier version of Word. The Set Defaults tab does not seem to
accurately reflect the settings of the open file. However, the current style
definitions are available on the Edit tab of the Manage Styles dialog box.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Tom Smith" wrote in message ...
Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document in a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply cancelled
out of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of the
open document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

[Beth Melton]

The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They reflect the
defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom is seeing
Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document created in a
version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000 the default was
changed to TNR 12.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
This is not uncommon when you are opening an existing document or template
created in an earlier version of Word. The Set Defaults tab does not seem
to
accurately reflect the settings of the open file. However, the current
style definitions are available on the Edit tab of the Manage Styles
dialog box.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Tom Smith" wrote in message
...
Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My
question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document in
a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I
happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply cancelled
out of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of the
open document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

[Beth Melton]

The Document Defaults enable you to set base formatting for your styles
which is something we couldn't do prior to Word 2007.

Some background: In previous versions the Document Defaults were hard-wired
into the application (such as Times New Roman 12 pts) and in order to modify
the defaults for your styles you needed to modify the Normal style (or use
another base style). To add another tidbit that factors into the scheme of
Document Defaults is something most don't know and that is the Normal style
is "empty" until it's modified. Initially it has no defined formatting and
obtains its formats from the Document Defaults. (Microsoft has been fooling
us for years. grin) IOW, if you do not modify your Normal style and if you
base your styles on the Normal style, you are actually using the Document
Defaults as your base formatting and changes made to the Document Defaults
will be reflected in the Normal style.

Additionally, If you do not explicitly define a format in a style the
Document Defaults will be used. For example, if you create a new style and
do not change the default font and later change the font on the Set Defaults
tab, your style will update to the new default.

In Word 2007, you actually want to refrain from modifying your Normal
style -- especially if it's for setting base defaults -- and use the
Document Defaults instead. Doing so will avoid various style nuances that
occur when you modify the Normal style, such as a long-standing issue of
specifying a font size in Table Styles.

Also note there are additional formats for the Document Defaults that are
not visible in the Manage Styles dialog box. All formatting options found in
the Font and Paragraph dialog boxes and can be set as the Document Defaults
using the Default button at the bottom. (They elected to suppress those
formats you really don't want to use for your document defaults, such as the
pagination options, in the Manage Styles dialog box.)

Now, this change also changes other style behaviors, such as when you base a
style on "No Style", but I'm not sure how deep you want to get into this
topic. :-)


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Tom Smith" tomDOTsmith68AT@verizonDOTnet wrote in message
...
Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document in a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply cancelled
out of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of the
open document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

[Stefan Blom]

I do recall that Word 97 (the first version that I used) had 10 pt TNR as
the default font. But I would expect the Manage Styles dialog box to show 12
pt as the default for documents whose Normal style was modified to 12 pt.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They reflect
the defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom is
seeing Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document
created in a version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000 the
default was changed to TNR 12.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
This is not uncommon when you are opening an existing document or
template
created in an earlier version of Word. The Set Defaults tab does not seem
to
accurately reflect the settings of the open file. However, the current
style definitions are available on the Edit tab of the Manage Styles
dialog box.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Tom Smith" wrote in message
...
Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My
question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document in
a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I
happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply cancelled
out of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of the
open document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

[Terry Farrell]

My recollection is that the built in default font was TNR 12 pt up to Office
XP when it became TNR 10pt until Office 2007.

Terry Farrell

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
I do recall that Word 97 (the first version that I used) had 10 pt TNR as
the default font. But I would expect the Manage Styles dialog box to show
12 pt as the default for documents whose Normal style was modified to 12
pt.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They reflect
the defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom is
seeing Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document
created in a version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000 the
default was changed to TNR 12.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
This is not uncommon when you are opening an existing document or
template
created in an earlier version of Word. The Set Defaults tab does not
seem
to
accurately reflect the settings of the open file. However, the current
style definitions are available on the Edit tab of the Manage Styles
dialog box.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Tom Smith" wrote in message
...
Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My
question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document
in
a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I
happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply cancelled
out of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of
the
open document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

[Beth Melton]

The Normal style obtains it's defaults from the Document Defaults, not the
other way around.

Did you read my reply to Tom?


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
I do recall that Word 97 (the first version that I used) had 10 pt TNR as
the default font. But I would expect the Manage Styles dialog box to show
12 pt as the default for documents whose Normal style was modified to 12
pt.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They reflect
the defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom is
seeing Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document
created in a version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000 the
default was changed to TNR 12.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
This is not uncommon when you are opening an existing document or
template
created in an earlier version of Word. The Set Defaults tab does not
seem
to
accurately reflect the settings of the open file. However, the current
style definitions are available on the Edit tab of the Manage Styles
dialog box.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Tom Smith" wrote in message
...
Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My
question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document
in
a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I
happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply cancelled
out of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of
the
open document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

[Beth Melton]

No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12. In Word
2007 it's Calibri 11 pts.

To verify the latter, right-click your Desktop and select New/Word Document.
If you recall this method bypasses the Normal template and uses the
application defaults.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
My recollection is that the built in default font was TNR 12 pt up to
Office XP when it became TNR 10pt until Office 2007.

Terry Farrell

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
I do recall that Word 97 (the first version that I used) had 10 pt TNR as
the default font. But I would expect the Manage Styles dialog box to show
12 pt as the default for documents whose Normal style was modified to 12
pt.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They reflect
the defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom is
seeing Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document
created in a version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000 the
default was changed to TNR 12.

[Terry Farrell]

I agree about Office 2007 (language difference nuance he up to means as
far as but not including g). But I really thought it was XP that changed
the default size, not 2000 - but it is irrelevant now unless I go through
some time warp!

Terry

"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12. In
Word 2007 it's Calibri 11 pts.

To verify the latter, right-click your Desktop and select New/Word
Document. If you recall this method bypasses the Normal template and uses
the application defaults.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
My recollection is that the built in default font was TNR 12 pt up to
Office XP when it became TNR 10pt until Office 2007.

Terry Farrell

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
I do recall that Word 97 (the first version that I used) had 10 pt TNR as
the default font. But I would expect the Manage Styles dialog box to show
12 pt as the default for documents whose Normal style was modified to 12
pt.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They reflect
the defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom is
seeing Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document
created in a version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000
the
default was changed to TNR 12.

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It was definitely Word 2000. Although I never had that version, I had some
training documents that MS sent us (I only recently finally ditched them),
and I distinctly recall that that was one of many changes made in that
version to push Word toward greater HTML compatibility (I referred to that
version as the first "Webified" one).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I agree about Office 2007 (language difference nuance he up to means as
far as but not including g). But I really thought it was XP that changed
the default size, not 2000 - but it is irrelevant now unless I go through
some time warp!

Terry

"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12. In
Word 2007 it's Calibri 11 pts.

To verify the latter, right-click your Desktop and select New/Word
Document. If you recall this method bypasses the Normal template and uses
the application defaults.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
My recollection is that the built in default font was TNR 12 pt up to
Office XP when it became TNR 10pt until Office 2007.

Terry Farrell

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
I do recall that Word 97 (the first version that I used) had 10 pt TNR
as the default font. But I would expect the Manage Styles dialog box to
show 12 pt as the default for documents whose Normal style was modified
to 12 pt.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They
reflect
the defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom
is
seeing Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document
created in a version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000
the
default was changed to TNR 12.

[Beth Melton]

You're right, it is irrelevant. (You know, it's times like this I hate
being such a computer geek and feel compelled to verify irrelevant
information. grin)

For the "irrelevant info geeks" like me, here's a post from Suzanne on this
topic (who's always right about these things. :-) )
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...b087615b750fcb

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I really thought it was XP that changed the default size, not 2000 - but
it is irrelevant now unless I go through some time warp!

Terry

"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12.

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

The referenced NG post has long since been buffed up and polished as
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customization/DefParaFont.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
You're right, it is irrelevant. (You know, it's times like this I hate
being such a computer geek and feel compelled to verify irrelevant
information. grin)

For the "irrelevant info geeks" like me, here's a post from Suzanne on
this topic (who's always right about these things. :-) )
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...b087615b750fcb

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
I really thought it was XP that changed the default size, not 2000 - but
it is irrelevant now unless I go through some time warp!

Terry

"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12.

[Stefan Blom]

I did read your reply to Tom but, apparently, I had to read it twice...

So what you are saying is that in previous versions it wasn't possible to
change the document defaults? That certainly explains why the defaults show
10 pt TNR when opening old documents in Word 2007.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The Normal style obtains it's defaults from the Document Defaults, not the
other way around.

Did you read my reply to Tom?


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
I do recall that Word 97 (the first version that I used) had 10 pt TNR as
the default font. But I would expect the Manage Styles dialog box to show
12 pt as the default for documents whose Normal style was modified to 12
pt.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They reflect
the defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom is
seeing Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document
created in a version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000 the
default was changed to TNR 12.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
This is not uncommon when you are opening an existing document or
template
created in an earlier version of Word. The Set Defaults tab does not
seem
to
accurately reflect the settings of the open file. However, the current
style definitions are available on the Edit tab of the Manage Styles
dialog box.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Tom Smith" wrote in message
...
Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word
version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My
question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document
in
a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I
happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply
cancelled
out of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of
the
open document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

[Beth Melton]

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
I did read your reply to Tom but, apparently, I had to read it twice...

It took me awhile to wrap my head around how the change to the document
defaults impacts the way we've "always known Word to work". :-) I suspect
once others start looking more into this and understanding how the document
defaults work exactly there will be some controversy surrounding using the
Normal style as your base style, using (no style), and/or continuing to
modify the Normal style. Who knows...but I've been waiting for such debates
for over a year, anyway. ;-)

So what you are saying is that in previous versions it wasn't possible to
change the document defaults? That certainly explains why the defaults
show
10 pt TNR when opening old documents in Word 2007.

Yes. They were previously hard-wired into the application and we couldn't
change them. Even if you modified the Normal style, TNR 10pt/12pt was still
the default font/font size and could still surface.

Take for example basing a style on "(no style)". In past versions it would
always default to the hard-wired TNR 10pt/12pt. In Word 2007 new styles
based on "(no style)" will use the Document Defaults AND those styles will
update if modifications are made to the Document Defaults. In addition, as
previously noted, if the Normal style hasn't been modified (or if it uses
the same formats as the Document Defaults) any changes to the Document
defaults will be reflected in the Normal style.


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[Stefan Blom]

"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
I did read your reply to Tom but, apparently, I had to read it twice...

It took me awhile to wrap my head around how the change to the document
defaults impacts the way we've "always known Word to work". :-) I suspect
once others start looking more into this and understanding how the
document defaults work exactly there will be some controversy surrounding
using the Normal style as your base style, using (no style), and/or
continuing to modify the Normal style. Who knows...but I've been waiting
for such debates for over a year, anyway. ;-)

So what you are saying is that in previous versions it wasn't possible to
change the document defaults? That certainly explains why the defaults
show
10 pt TNR when opening old documents in Word 2007.

Yes. They were previously hard-wired into the application and we couldn't
change them. Even if you modified the Normal style, TNR 10pt/12pt was
still the default font/font size and could still surface.

Take for example basing a style on "(no style)". In past versions it would
always default to the hard-wired TNR 10pt/12pt. In Word 2007 new styles
based on "(no style)" will use the Document Defaults AND those styles will
update if modifications are made to the Document Defaults.

This is indeed annoying.

Thank you for the clarification.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP




In addition, as
previously noted, if the Normal style hasn't been modified (or if it uses
the same formats as the Document Defaults) any changes to the Document
defaults will be reflected in the Normal style.


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[Beth Melton]

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...

This is indeed annoying.

I'm not following what you think annoying. Can you elaborate? :-)


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[Stefan Blom]

Sorry for not being clear.

You explained that styles based on "(no style)" get their settings from the
document defaults when *created*, which makes sense. It's the fact that they
are affected by subsequent changes to the document defaults that I find
annoying. I guess there is some logic to it, but it contradicts the
experience from previous versions of Word.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...

This is indeed annoying.

I'm not following what you think annoying. Can you elaborate? :-)


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[Beth Melton]

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
Sorry for not being clear.

You explained that styles based on "(no style)" get their settings from
the
document defaults when *created*, which makes sense. It's the fact that
they
are affected by subsequent changes to the document defaults that I find
annoying. I guess there is some logic to it, but it contradicts the
experience from previous versions of Word.

I thought that might be what you were referring to. :-)

One on hand, by making this change Microsoft has fulfilled a few
long-standing wishes. We've been asking for years for the ability to
completely rid ourselves from TNR in documents, the ability to use "true"
base defaults that don't involve using a style, and an easy way to set our
own defaults. Now we have these abilities. On the other, since it is a
difference in how Word has always worked I'm sure there will be folks who
don't like the change.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[Stefan Blom]

"Beth Melton" wrote in message
...
"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
Sorry for not being clear.

You explained that styles based on "(no style)" get their settings from
the
document defaults when *created*, which makes sense. It's the fact that
they
are affected by subsequent changes to the document defaults that I find
annoying. I guess there is some logic to it, but it contradicts the
experience from previous versions of Word.

I thought that might be what you were referring to. :-)

One on hand, by making this change Microsoft has fulfilled a few
long-standing wishes. We've been asking for years for the ability to
completely rid ourselves from TNR in documents, the ability to use "true"
base defaults that don't involve using a style, and an easy way to set our
own defaults. Now we have these abilities. On the other, since it is a
difference in how Word has always worked I'm sure there will be folks who
don't like the change.


I guess I'm saying that I'm somewhere in between "liking" and "not liking"
this. :-)

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

[Beth Melton]

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
"Beth Melton" wrote in message
I thought that might be what you were referring to. :-)

One on hand, by making this change Microsoft has fulfilled a few
long-standing wishes. We've been asking for years for the ability to
completely rid ourselves from TNR in documents, the ability to use "true"
base defaults that don't involve using a style, and an easy way to set
our
own defaults. Now we have these abilities. On the other, since it is a
difference in how Word has always worked I'm sure there will be folks who
don't like the change.


I guess I'm saying that I'm somewhere in between "liking" and "not liking"
this. :-)

LOL!

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[Jean-Guy Marcil[_2_]]

"Beth Melton" wrote:

No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12. In Word
2007 it's Calibri 11 pts.

To verify the latter, right-click your Desktop and select New/Word Document.
If you recall this method bypasses the Normal template and uses the
application defaults.

I had to try it... On my machine at work, Word 2003 SP3, English UI, when I
do that (Desktop New Word) I get a Word document on the desktop, but I
have to double click on it to open it. When I do, I see that the font is
Arial 12, i.e. the same as my Normal style... not TNR 12, the application
default. What am I doing wrong?

[Beth Melton]

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton

What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

"Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message
...
"Beth Melton" wrote:

No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12. In
Word
2007 it's Calibri 11 pts.

To verify the latter, right-click your Desktop and select New/Word
Document.
If you recall this method bypasses the Normal template and uses the
application defaults.

I had to try it... On my machine at work, Word 2003 SP3, English UI, when
I
do that (Desktop New Word) I get a Word document on the desktop, but I
have to double click on it to open it. When I do, I see that the font is
Arial 12, i.e. the same as my Normal style... not TNR 12, the application
default. What am I doing wrong?

Perhaps you missed "latter"? I was referring to Word 2007, not Word 2003.
:-)

If you create a new Word document using the New shortcut you get a new
document using the factory defaults and not based on your Normal template.
This did not occur in previous versions.

If you want verify factory defaults for previous versions you can either
start Word in Safe Mode and create a new document, or use File/New, select
Blank Document, select the "Template" option, and then click OK.

~Beth Melton

[Jean-Guy Marcil[_2_]]

"Beth Melton" wrote:

Take for example basing a style on "(no style)". In past versions it would
always default to the hard-wired TNR 10pt/12pt. In Word 2007 new styles

Sorry to be a pest, but again, I had to try it :-)
(Still on my Word 2003 SP3 machine).

I created a style based on "no style" and did not change anything at all.
This new style was identical to my Normal style (Arial Regular 12). Then, I
went to the Font dialog box and selected a non-default font ("X-files"), then
bold and then 24 points. I clicked on "Default". I closed Word. It asked me
if I wanted to change my Normal.dot (I have that option checked), I clicked
on "Yes".
I re-opened Word and again created a style based on "no style" and did not
change anything. It was formated with the X-files font, bold and 24. Then
again I closed Word. I re-tried the right-click on dektop to create a new
Word document. It was set to X-files bold 24.
So I guess do not grasp the concept of application default in Word 2003.
I understand it for 2007 though..

Ah, and then I did not forget to set my default back to Arial regular 12!

[Jean-Guy Marcil[_2_]]

"Beth Melton" wrote:

No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12. In
Word
2007 it's Calibri 11 pts.

To verify the latter, right-click your Desktop and select New/Word
Document.
If you recall this method bypasses the Normal template and uses the
application defaults.

I had to try it... On my machine at work, Word 2003 SP3, English UI, when
I
do that (Desktop New Word) I get a Word document on the desktop, but I
have to double click on it to open it. When I do, I see that the font is
Arial 12, i.e. the same as my Normal style... not TNR 12, the application
default. What am I doing wrong?

Perhaps you missed "latter"? I was referring to Word 2007, not Word 2003.
:-)

LOL
I thought "latter" refered to the whole concept...

Thanks for putting up with my antics...
You can now safely disregard my other post in this thread!

[Beth Melton]

"Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message
...
"Beth Melton" wrote:

Take for example basing a style on "(no style)". In past versions it
would
always default to the hard-wired TNR 10pt/12pt. In Word 2007 new styles

Sorry to be a pest, but again, I had to try it :-)
(Still on my Word 2003 SP3 machine).

I created a style based on "no style" and did not change anything at all.
This new style was identical to my Normal style (Arial Regular 12). Then,
I
went to the Font dialog box and selected a non-default font ("X-files"),
then
bold and then 24 points. I clicked on "Default". I closed Word. It asked
me
if I wanted to change my Normal.dot (I have that option checked), I
clicked
on "Yes".
I re-opened Word and again created a style based on "no style" and did not
change anything. It was formated with the X-files font, bold and 24. Then
again I closed Word. I re-tried the right-click on dektop to create a new
Word document. It was set to X-files bold 24.
So I guess do not grasp the concept of application default in Word 2003.
I understand it for 2007 though..

Ah, and then I did not forget to set my default back to Arial regular 12!

I was wrong about "(no style)" defaulting to the hard wired defaults in
previous versions. It will initially use the defaults you set in the Normal
style but the difference in Word 2007 is if you change your Document
Defaults those changes will be reflected in those styles based on "(no
style)".

Sorry about that!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton

What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

[Jean-Guy Marcil[_2_]]

"Beth Melton" wrote:

"Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message
...
"Beth Melton" wrote:

Take for example basing a style on "(no style)". In past versions it
would
always default to the hard-wired TNR 10pt/12pt. In Word 2007 new styles

Sorry to be a pest, but again, I had to try it :-)
(Still on my Word 2003 SP3 machine).

I created a style based on "no style" and did not change anything at all.
This new style was identical to my Normal style (Arial Regular 12). Then,
I
went to the Font dialog box and selected a non-default font ("X-files"),
then
bold and then 24 points. I clicked on "Default". I closed Word. It asked
me
if I wanted to change my Normal.dot (I have that option checked), I
clicked
on "Yes".
I re-opened Word and again created a style based on "no style" and did not
change anything. It was formated with the X-files font, bold and 24. Then
again I closed Word. I re-tried the right-click on dektop to create a new
Word document. It was set to X-files bold 24.
So I guess do not grasp the concept of application default in Word 2003.
I understand it for 2007 though..

Ah, and then I did not forget to set my default back to Arial regular 12!

I was wrong about "(no style)" defaulting to the hard wired defaults in
previous versions. It will initially use the defaults you set in the Normal
style but the difference in Word 2007 is if you change your Document
Defaults those changes will be reflected in those styles based on "(no
style)".

When you think about it, it is much better like that.
If I wanted a style based on "no style" to be in fact based on "Normal",
then I would set it based on "Normal"...

[Beth Melton]

"Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message
...
I was wrong about "(no style)" defaulting to the hard wired defaults in
previous versions. It will initially use the defaults you set in the
Normal
style but the difference in Word 2007 is if you change your Document
Defaults those changes will be reflected in those styles based on "(no
style)".

When you think about it, it is much better like that.
If I wanted a style based on "no style" to be in fact based on "Normal",
then I would set it based on "Normal"...

That's my thought as well. :-)

The difference between using "no style" and Normal as the based on style is
subtle but there is a difference and that doesn't include the bugs that can
be encountered when you modify your Normal style.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton

What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

[Stefan Blom]

"Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message
...

"Beth Melton" wrote:
I was wrong about "(no style)" defaulting to the hard wired defaults in
previous versions. It will initially use the defaults you set in the
Normal
style but the difference in Word 2007 is if you change your Document
Defaults those changes will be reflected in those styles based on "(no
style)".

When you think about it, it is much better like that.
If I wanted a style based on "no style" to be in fact based on "Normal",
then I would set it based on "Normal"...

But, given Beth's previous explanations in this thread, these are two
different things?

Obviously, a style based on "(no style)" should *not* adjust to a particular
style in the document; then it would be pointless to choose "(no style)" in
the first place.

What has changed is the fact that even styles based on "(no style)" can be
affected by document defaults, which I guess makes sense when Word has
customizable document defaults (and themes).

Or am I (still) missing something here?

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

[Beth Melton]

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
"Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message
When you think about it, it is much better like that.
If I wanted a style based on "no style" to be in fact based on "Normal",
then I would set it based on "Normal"...

But, given Beth's previous explanations in this thread, these are two
different things?

Obviously, a style based on "(no style)" should *not* adjust to a
particular
style in the document; then it would be pointless to choose "(no style)"
in
the first place.

What has changed is the fact that even styles based on "(no style)" can be
affected by document defaults, which I guess makes sense when Word has
customizable document defaults (and themes).

Or am I (still) missing something here?

That sounds about right to me. :-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton

What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

[Jean-Guy Marcil[_2_]]

"Stefan Blom" wrote:

"Jean-Guy Marcil" wrote in message
...

"Beth Melton" wrote:
I was wrong about "(no style)" defaulting to the hard wired defaults in
previous versions. It will initially use the defaults you set in the
Normal
style but the difference in Word 2007 is if you change your Document
Defaults those changes will be reflected in those styles based on "(no
style)".

When you think about it, it is much better like that.
If I wanted a style based on "no style" to be in fact based on "Normal",
then I would set it based on "Normal"...

But, given Beth's previous explanations in this thread, these are two
different things?

Exactly what I was trying, rather unsuccessfully, to articualte...

Obviously, a style based on "(no style)" should *not* adjust to a particular
style in the document; then it would be pointless to choose "(no style)" in
the first place.

Right again, my exact thoughts.

What has changed is the fact that even styles based on "(no style)" can be
affected by document defaults, which I guess makes sense when Word has
customizable document defaults (and themes).

Or am I (still) missing something here?

No, I was just not articulate enough to convey my thoughts clearly.
You wrote excatly what I was thinking.