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Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
jones0430
 
Posts: n/a
Default typographical spaces en-, em-, thin, and number in Word.

Microsoft misrepresents Word to the Business Community as a page layout
program. I have labored under this for many years, as many companies believe
that you can produce large and complex documentation using Microsoft Word.

Word does not even support the use of en-, em-, thin, or number spaces, all
accepted standard typographical spaces. How many more years will Microsoft
continue to fail to support these basic typographical layout elements?

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ord.pagelayout
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Suzanne S. Barnhill
 
Posts: n/a
Default typographical spaces en-, em-, thin, and number in Word.

Depends what you mean by "support." I've been using en and em spaces in my
documents for many versions now. Em and en spaces, as well as 1/4 em space,
are on the Special Characters tab of the Insert | Symbol dialog, and you can
assign keyboard shortcuts to them as I have. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/InsertSpecChars.htm. These and other
spaces can be found in the 2002-200A character range in Arial Unicode MS,
Lucida Sans Unicode, and some other fonts. I suspect that Word inserts them
from MS Mincho, since they have a regrettable tendency to revert to that
font under stress. If these glyphs were included in Times New Roman, Arial,
and other Windows core fonts, it would certainly help.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jones0430" wrote in message
...
Microsoft misrepresents Word to the Business Community as a page layout
program. I have labored under this for many years, as many companies

believe
that you can produce large and complex documentation using Microsoft Word.

Word does not even support the use of en-, em-, thin, or number spaces,

all
accepted standard typographical spaces. How many more years will Microsoft
continue to fail to support these basic typographical layout elements?

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow

this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ord.pagelayout

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
jones0430
 
Posts: n/a
Default typographical spaces en-, em-, thin, and number in Word.

So they are. Then why doesn't the help system point this out? Searching for
spaces brings up many technically correct entries, but typographical spaces
are not mentioned. A layout program ought to document this ability. I don't
have the patience to search by discovery.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

Depends what you mean by "support." I've been using en and em spaces in my
documents for many versions now. Em and en spaces, as well as 1/4 em space,
are on the Special Characters tab of the Insert | Symbol dialog, and you can
assign keyboard shortcuts to them as I have. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/InsertSpecChars.htm. These and other
spaces can be found in the 2002-200A character range in Arial Unicode MS,
Lucida Sans Unicode, and some other fonts. I suspect that Word inserts them
from MS Mincho, since they have a regrettable tendency to revert to that
font under stress. If these glyphs were included in Times New Roman, Arial,
and other Windows core fonts, it would certainly help.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jones0430" wrote in message
...
Microsoft misrepresents Word to the Business Community as a page layout
program. I have labored under this for many years, as many companies

believe
that you can produce large and complex documentation using Microsoft Word.

Word does not even support the use of en-, em-, thin, or number spaces,

all
accepted standard typographical spaces. How many more years will Microsoft
continue to fail to support these basic typographical layout elements?

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow

this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ord.pagelayout


  #4   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Suzanne S. Barnhill
 
Posts: n/a
Default typographical spaces en-, em-, thin, and number in Word.

FWIW, when I want to insert a special character, I tend to look for it in
the Symbol dialog rather than Help.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jones0430" wrote in message
news
So they are. Then why doesn't the help system point this out? Searching
for
spaces brings up many technically correct entries, but typographical

spaces
are not mentioned. A layout program ought to document this ability. I

don't
have the patience to search by discovery.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

Depends what you mean by "support." I've been using en and em spaces in

my
documents for many versions now. Em and en spaces, as well as 1/4 em

space,
are on the Special Characters tab of the Insert | Symbol dialog, and you

can
assign keyboard shortcuts to them as I have. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/InsertSpecChars.htm. These and other
spaces can be found in the 2002-200A character range in Arial Unicode

MS,
Lucida Sans Unicode, and some other fonts. I suspect that Word inserts

them
from MS Mincho, since they have a regrettable tendency to revert to that
font under stress. If these glyphs were included in Times New Roman,

Arial,
and other Windows core fonts, it would certainly help.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jones0430" wrote in message
...
Microsoft misrepresents Word to the Business Community as a page

layout
program. I have labored under this for many years, as many companies

believe
that you can produce large and complex documentation using Microsoft

Word.

Word does not even support the use of en-, em-, thin, or number

spaces,
all
accepted standard typographical spaces. How many more years will

Microsoft
continue to fail to support these basic typographical layout elements?

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click

the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,

follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and

then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.



http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ord.pagelayout



  #5   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
CyberTaz
 
Posts: n/a
Default typographical spaces en-, em-, thin, and number in Word.

You are quite correct that Help doesn't make it easy to find, but as you see,
the info is there. The real improvement needed in Word is in the
documentation/Help. Oddly enough, if you had searched for 'em space' rather
than 'space' you would have gotten a better response, but still not clearly
denoted.

BTW - one other thought just for clarity re

A layout program...


Word *is not* (nor have I ever seen anything from MS proclaiming it to be) a
Layout program. It is & always has been a _word processing_ application,
although the concessionary 'features' that have been added over the years
have created & perpetuated the misconception that it is otherwise.

Regards |:)

"jones0430" wrote:

So they are. Then why doesn't the help system point this out? Searching for
spaces brings up many technically correct entries, but typographical spaces
are not mentioned. A layout program ought to document this ability. I don't
have the patience to search by discovery.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

Depends what you mean by "support." I've been using en and em spaces in my
documents for many versions now. Em and en spaces, as well as 1/4 em space,
are on the Special Characters tab of the Insert | Symbol dialog, and you can
assign keyboard shortcuts to them as I have. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/InsertSpecChars.htm. These and other
spaces can be found in the 2002-200A character range in Arial Unicode MS,
Lucida Sans Unicode, and some other fonts. I suspect that Word inserts them
from MS Mincho, since they have a regrettable tendency to revert to that
font under stress. If these glyphs were included in Times New Roman, Arial,
and other Windows core fonts, it would certainly help.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jones0430" wrote in message
...
Microsoft misrepresents Word to the Business Community as a page layout
program. I have labored under this for many years, as many companies

believe
that you can produce large and complex documentation using Microsoft Word.

Word does not even support the use of en-, em-, thin, or number spaces,

all
accepted standard typographical spaces. How many more years will Microsoft
continue to fail to support these basic typographical layout elements?

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow

this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ord.pagelayout




  #6   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Jay Freedman
 
Posts: n/a
Default typographical spaces en-, em-, thin, and number in Word.

CyberTaz wrote:
BTW - one other thought just for clarity re

A layout program...


Word *is not* (nor have I ever seen anything from MS proclaiming it
to be) a Layout program. It is & always has been a _word processing_
application, although the concessionary 'features' that have been
added over the years have created & perpetuated the misconception
that it is otherwise.


That distinction has been made many times in these newsgroups. Additionally,
you may notice that Microsoft produces a program that *is* a layout program.
It's called Publisher. I don't think MS wants to blur that separation any
more than it already does -- it would be bad for marketing.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
jones0430
 
Posts: n/a
Default typographical spaces en-, em-, thin, and number in Word.

Ah, but I did search for em space, and for en space. The only connection that
I recognized immediately was with en and em dashes.

The marketing implication of formatting has always been linked with page
layout. Marketing is not the same as advertising. Word is marketed to many
businesses as a layout capable program. Of course Microsoft can always claim
that people are misusing the tool that they produce.

You are correct in that Microsoft products have a deficiency in
documentation. Word hasn't had usable documentation since the late '80's,
which is when they stopped shipping a user guide with their software, and
only provided a help system. Help is not user documentation, it is woefully
inadequate, and even the help that it does provide is not always detailed
enough to provide understanding, or cover the feature. It often leaves things
unsaid, assuming the user knows the information that was formerly provided in
the user guide.

"CyberTaz" wrote:

You are quite correct that Help doesn't make it easy to find, but as you see,
the info is there. The real improvement needed in Word is in the
documentation/Help. Oddly enough, if you had searched for 'em space' rather
than 'space' you would have gotten a better response, but still not clearly
denoted.

BTW - one other thought just for clarity re

A layout program...


Word *is not* (nor have I ever seen anything from MS proclaiming it to be) a
Layout program. It is & always has been a _word processing_ application,
although the concessionary 'features' that have been added over the years
have created & perpetuated the misconception that it is otherwise.

Regards |:)

"jones0430" wrote:

So they are. Then why doesn't the help system point this out? Searching for
spaces brings up many technically correct entries, but typographical spaces
are not mentioned. A layout program ought to document this ability. I don't
have the patience to search by discovery.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

Depends what you mean by "support." I've been using en and em spaces in my
documents for many versions now. Em and en spaces, as well as 1/4 em space,
are on the Special Characters tab of the Insert | Symbol dialog, and you can
assign keyboard shortcuts to them as I have. See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/InsertSpecChars.htm. These and other
spaces can be found in the 2002-200A character range in Arial Unicode MS,
Lucida Sans Unicode, and some other fonts. I suspect that Word inserts them
from MS Mincho, since they have a regrettable tendency to revert to that
font under stress. If these glyphs were included in Times New Roman, Arial,
and other Windows core fonts, it would certainly help.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jones0430" wrote in message
...
Microsoft misrepresents Word to the Business Community as a page layout
program. I have labored under this for many years, as many companies
believe
that you can produce large and complex documentation using Microsoft Word.

Word does not even support the use of en-, em-, thin, or number spaces,
all
accepted standard typographical spaces. How many more years will Microsoft
continue to fail to support these basic typographical layout elements?

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ord.pagelayout


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