I would appreciate some help on the document that I have uploaded he


http://download.yousendit.com/7D404C5467913476


After you have downloaded it here are the problems I'm having:


AndaleMono.... Select all 7 instances in the Style and Formatting Pane.

Nothing gets selected. Try to delete the AndaleMono style.... It
won't delete.


Centered.... Select all 11 instances in the Style and Formatting Pane.
Nothing gets selected. Try to delete the Centered Style. It won't
delete


Tools / Templates and Add-Ins / Organizer.... Neither AndaleMono or
Centered appear.


Headings... what is the best way to name them ? What should they be
based on ? Right now I'm basing many of them on the Normal Style.
Does not seem to work as well as when I base Body Styles on Normal. How

can I get Word to stop Renaming my Heading Styles and sticking
"Style" in front of the Heading name ?


What is the best way to name Body Styles ?


The mess in the table on page 247. I can't seem to get rid of it. Why
does Clear Formatting not do anything ? Why can't I change the Style
?


What do you think of the way I break manually between pages ? Is there
a better way ?


When I have a table that extends all the way across the page is
Preferred Width 100 Percent the way to go if I decided to change margin

sizes ?


Is sticking almost all the graphics in tables as I have done the best
way to go ?


What is the Graphic Anchor all about ? Why does it display and how do
you use it ? A comprehesive explination of the Graphic Anchor would be
appreciated.


What should graphics be attached to ?


Have any of you spent any time with Open Office Writer ? If so what do
you think of it ? What are the pros and cons of Open Office Writer ? I

know one advantage is that Open Office Writer saves .pdf.


Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

It is best to use the built-in heading styles rather than create your own;
for some reasons, see
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...ingStyles.html

In fact, using built-in styles generally is a good idea, since it reduces
the number of styles in the document.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
oups.com...
I would appreciate some help on the document that I have uploaded he


http://download.yousendit.com/7D404C5467913476


After you have downloaded it here are the problems I'm having:


AndaleMono.... Select all 7 instances in the Style and Formatting Pane.

Nothing gets selected. Try to delete the AndaleMono style.... It
won't delete.


Centered.... Select all 11 instances in the Style and Formatting Pane.
Nothing gets selected. Try to delete the Centered Style. It won't
delete


Tools / Templates and Add-Ins / Organizer.... Neither AndaleMono or
Centered appear.


Headings... what is the best way to name them ? What should they be
based on ? Right now I'm basing many of them on the Normal Style.
Does not seem to work as well as when I base Body Styles on Normal. How

can I get Word to stop Renaming my Heading Styles and sticking
"Style" in front of the Heading name ?


What is the best way to name Body Styles ?


The mess in the table on page 247. I can't seem to get rid of it. Why
does Clear Formatting not do anything ? Why can't I change the Style
?


What do you think of the way I break manually between pages ? Is there
a better way ?


When I have a table that extends all the way across the page is
Preferred Width 100 Percent the way to go if I decided to change margin

sizes ?


Is sticking almost all the graphics in tables as I have done the best
way to go ?


What is the Graphic Anchor all about ? Why does it display and how do
you use it ? A comprehesive explination of the Graphic Anchor would be
appreciated.


What should graphics be attached to ?


Have any of you spent any time with Open Office Writer ? If so what do
you think of it ? What are the pros and cons of Open Office Writer ? I

know one advantage is that Open Office Writer saves .pdf.


Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
It is best to use the built-in heading styles rather than create your own;
for some reasons, see
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...ingStyles.html

In fact, using built-in styles generally is a good idea, since it reduces
the number of styles in the document.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


How about downloading and looking at the document I posted ? When you
do you will see that I *did use* Words built in Headings !

What happens when you use Words built in Heading Styles but need say a
space of 6 before, or say 6 before and 6 after, or just 6 after, etc ?

I'm really looking for much more complete answers then you have
provided.

Perhaps you can download the document like I asked and try again with
some advise that I can put to good use ?

Thanks,

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Hi jon

jon_banquer wrote:
How about downloading and looking at the document I posted ? When you
do you will see that I *did use* Words built in Headings !

Then I don't understand why are you asking about how to _name_ them?


What happens when you use Words built in Heading Styles but need say a
space of 6 before, or say 6 before and 6 after, or just 6 after, etc ?

Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

A good and pretty comprehensive primer which answer many of your
questions can be found at:

Creating a Template (Part II, by John McGhie)
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...platePart2.htm

If you follow that while creating your template and subsequent document,
you won't have problems with stray formatting anymore, either.


Perhaps you can download the document like I asked and try again with
some advise that I can put to good use ?

Perhaps I can, but not anymore today (and not on a productive machine,
sorry -- you've heard about macro-viruses ;-)).

HTH
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

jon_banquer wrote:
I would appreciate some help on the document that I have uploaded he


http://download.yousendit.com/7D404C5467913476


After you have downloaded it here are the problems I'm having:


Download a 22 MB file without any warning that it's going to be that
big? You're asking a lot of bandwidth, patience and macrovirus risk.
Surely you could at least post a cut-down document to illustrate your point.

Headings... what is the best way to name them ?

Use the inbuilt heading system, and keep the default names.

Have any of you spent any time with Open Office Writer ? If so what do
you think of it ? What are the pros and cons of Open Office Writer ? I
know one advantage is that Open Office Writer saves .pdf.

So does Word and everything else, if you set up a pdf printer. There
are lots of them out there that can be downloaded without much
difficulty. My preference is to combine Ghostscript with RedMon.

Robert M. Franz (RMF) wrote:
Hi jon

jon_banquer wrote:
How about downloading and looking at the document I posted ? When you
do you will see that I *did use* Words built in Headings !

Then I don't understand why are you asking about how to _name_ them?


What happens when you use Words built in Heading Styles but need say a
space of 6 before, or say 6 before and 6 after, or just 6 after, etc ?

Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

A good and pretty comprehensive primer which answer many of your
questions can be found at:

Creating a Template (Part II, by John McGhie)
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...platePart2.htm

If you follow that while creating your template and subsequent document,
you won't have problems with stray formatting anymore, either.


Perhaps you can download the document like I asked and try again with
some advise that I can put to good use ?

Perhaps I can, but not anymore today (and not on a productive machine,
sorry -- you've heard about macro-viruses ;-)).

HTH
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word


Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

Please be more specific. How do I name Heading Styles and make Word
happy ?

Example:

How would I name a Heading 2 Style that has a space of 6 before and 6
after so that Word is happy and doesn't change the name? What do you
suggest I base this Heading 2 Style on and what should I use for the
following paragraph when the following paragraphs are different thru
out the document ?

Perhaps I can, but not anymore today (and not on a productive machine,
sorry -- you've heard about macro-viruses ;-)).

Is it my imagination or are Microsoft users very fearful of the
applications that Microsoft makes ?

I gotta tell you I'm not very impressed with MS Word so far for long
documents and desktop publishing.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

See inline comments,

anon k wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
I would appreciate some help on the document that I have uploaded he


http://download.yousendit.com/7D404C5467913476


After you have downloaded it here are the problems I'm having:


Download a 22 MB file without any warning that it's going to be that
big? You're asking a lot of bandwidth, patience and macrovirus risk.
Surely you could at least post a cut-down document to illustrate your point.

You want me to use Camtasia and do a video and post it ? The file will
probably be larger but at least you won't have any chance of getting a
Word virus. I don't think 22 megs is really that big in todays world
unless your on AOL / dialup.

Headings... what is the best way to name them ?

Use the inbuilt heading system, and keep the default names.

How do you do that when you have numerous instances of say Heading 2 ?
Heading 2 with 6 before. Heading 2 with 6 after. Heading 2 with ....

Have any of you spent any time with Open Office Writer ? If so what do
you think of it ? What are the pros and cons of Open Office Writer ? I
know one advantage is that Open Office Writer saves .pdf.

So does Word and everything else, if you set up a pdf printer. There
are lots of them out there that can be downloaded without much
difficulty. My preference is to combine Ghostscript with RedMon.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

jon_banquer wrote:
See inline comments,

anon k wrote:

jon_banquer wrote:

I would appreciate some help on the document that I have uploaded he


http://download.yousendit.com/7D404C5467913476


After you have downloaded it here are the problems I'm having:


Download a 22 MB file without any warning that it's going to be that
big? You're asking a lot of bandwidth, patience and macrovirus risk.
Surely you could at least post a cut-down document to illustrate your point.


You want me to use Camtasia and do a video and post it ? The file will
probably be larger but at least you won't have any chance of getting a
Word virus. I don't think 22 megs is really that big in todays world
unless your on AOL / dialup.

A short document will suffice. 22 megs is a big file for many of us
regardless of what ISP we're using. You're sending vast quantities of
unnecessary data and asking us to sift through it to find your problems.
I don't see why anyone here should isolate your problems for you.

Your sarcastic suggestion about Camtasia really doesn't help your
situation. Nor does your diversionary tactic (in your other post) about
people being scared of MS software. It's your document that we don't
trust. By sending the entire thing, and then asking US to isolate all
of your problems from the surrounding data, you're coming across as
lazy, unreasonably demanding, and unappreciative. Your poor spelling,
punctuation and grammar only bolster that appearance.

Headings... what is the best way to name them ?

Use the inbuilt heading system, and keep the default names.


How do you do that when you have numerous instances of say Heading 2 ?
Heading 2 with 6 before. Heading 2 with 6 after. Heading 2 with ....

If you want to control the text like that, then you don't want to use
hierarchical styles at all. Styles are for consistency and to emulate
traditional typesetting. You're asking for inconsistency which, in
traditional typesetting, is simply not done.

That said, you can modify each heading separately. You can also create
custom styles based on heading styles and name them "spaced heading 6pt
before" and so on.

As for your other comment about Word being unsuitable for desktop
publishing, why use it if you want a desktop publisher? Word is a word
processor, not a desktop publisher, so of course it's not going to serve
as a desktop publisher. It doesn't even do a good job of justification
and footnote text flow!

If desktop publishing is what you want, you could switch to FrameMaker,
PageMaker, TeX or MSPublisher. Each has different strengths and weaknesses.

I think you still don't understand. You don't create a new level 2 style
based on Heading 2 (or anything else). You use the built-in Heading 2 style
modified to suit your purposes. If you want Heading 2 to have 6 pts Space
Before and After, then modify it accordingly.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
ups.com...
Robert M. Franz (RMF) wrote:
Hi jon

jon_banquer wrote:
How about downloading and looking at the document I posted ? When you
do you will see that I *did use* Words built in Headings !

Then I don't understand why are you asking about how to _name_ them?


What happens when you use Words built in Heading Styles but need say a
space of 6 before, or say 6 before and 6 after, or just 6 after, etc ?

Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

A good and pretty comprehensive primer which answer many of your
questions can be found at:

Creating a Template (Part II, by John McGhie)
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...platePart2.htm

If you follow that while creating your template and subsequent document,
you won't have problems with stray formatting anymore, either.


Perhaps you can download the document like I asked and try again with
some advise that I can put to good use ?

Perhaps I can, but not anymore today (and not on a productive machine,
sorry -- you've heard about macro-viruses ;-)).

HTH
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word


Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

Please be more specific. How do I name Heading Styles and make Word
happy ?

Example:

How would I name a Heading 2 Style that has a space of 6 before and 6
after so that Word is happy and doesn't change the name? What do you
suggest I base this Heading 2 Style on and what should I use for the
following paragraph when the following paragraphs are different thru
out the document ?

Perhaps I can, but not anymore today (and not on a productive machine,
sorry -- you've heard about macro-viruses ;-)).

Is it my imagination or are Microsoft users very fearful of the
applications that Microsoft makes ?

I gotta tell you I'm not very impressed with MS Word so far for long
documents and desktop publishing.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Is there something wrong with "Heading 2" ?
.... or ...
"Heading 2,h2,myname"
?
You can add names or shortcuts or abbreviations to the names of any of the
built-in styles by adding them, preceded by commas, in the Modify Style
dialog.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!

My criminal defense site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


"jon_banquer" wrote in message
ups.com...
Robert M. Franz (RMF) wrote:
Hi jon

jon_banquer wrote:
How about downloading and looking at the document I posted ? When you
do you will see that I *did use* Words built in Headings !

Then I don't understand why are you asking about how to _name_ them?


What happens when you use Words built in Heading Styles but need say a
space of 6 before, or say 6 before and 6 after, or just 6 after, etc ?

Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

A good and pretty comprehensive primer which answer many of your
questions can be found at:

Creating a Template (Part II, by John McGhie)
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...platePart2.htm

If you follow that while creating your template and subsequent document,
you won't have problems with stray formatting anymore, either.


Perhaps you can download the document like I asked and try again with
some advise that I can put to good use ?

Perhaps I can, but not anymore today (and not on a productive machine,
sorry -- you've heard about macro-viruses ;-)).

HTH
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word


Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

Please be more specific. How do I name Heading Styles and make Word
happy ?

Example:

How would I name a Heading 2 Style that has a space of 6 before and 6
after so that Word is happy and doesn't change the name? What do you
suggest I base this Heading 2 Style on and what should I use for the
following paragraph when the following paragraphs are different thru
out the document ?

Perhaps I can, but not anymore today (and not on a productive machine,
sorry -- you've heard about macro-viruses ;-)).

Is it my imagination or are Microsoft users very fearful of the
applications that Microsoft makes ?

I gotta tell you I'm not very impressed with MS Word so far for long
documents and desktop publishing.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Hi jon

jon_banquer wrote:
A good and pretty comprehensive primer which answer many of your
questions can be found at:

Creating a Template (Part II, by John McGhie)
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...platePart2.htm

If you follow that while creating your template and subsequent document,
you won't have problems with stray formatting anymore, either.
[..]
Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

Please be more specific. How do I name Heading Styles and make Word
happy ?

I repeat: you don't! (Or: I would not.)

In the mean time, curiosity got the better of me, and I actually did
download your document. As others have stated in this thread: you might
have mentioned its size when posting -- and you might also have stripped
it down to a sensible size for us to download!

The document looks at least structered in the sense that styles have
been used in favour of direct formatting. There are, however, empty
paragraphs every other page (well, I didn't look too far into the
document, to be honest) -- that's something which is a no-no in any long
document.

Plus: you have way too many styles to describe _structure_, i.e. a
handful of Heading 2 and Heading 3 styles each, w/ and w/o 6pt spacing
before/after etc. I would never do that. The style name should (try to)
describe what a paragraph is, and the definition of the style should
determine how the paragraph is supposed to look. But you do not want
more than one "Heading 2 style" (at least not when your headings are
unnumbered). So, before we go any further: Why do you think you need 3
different styles with different formatting, if all instances really are
headings of the 2nd or 3rd hierarchy?

I intentionally did not delete the above article in this post, so I
really urge you: read it.


Example:

How would I name a Heading 2 Style that has a space of 6 before and 6
after so that Word is happy and doesn't change the name? What do you
suggest I base this Heading 2 Style on and what should I use for the
following paragraph when the following paragraphs are different thru
out the document ?

I would simply _not_ define more than one Heading 2 style. More to
spacing before/above at the bottom of this post.

The definition of follow-up style is a property that helps the writer,
i.e., when you are in a paragraph of this style, and you hit Return,
then the new paragraph has this follow-up style set. It really is only a
setting that kicks-in in this very Return. Afterwards, the writer may
decide to reassign a different style, and the follow-up of the above
paragraph will never be re-evaluated.

When I decide on a styleset for a new type of document, today more than
ever, I ask myself: how many styles do I really need? Take as many as
absolutely needed, as few as possible.


Is it my imagination or are Microsoft users very fearful of the
applications that Microsoft makes ?

[out-of-context error] Sorry, you lost me there. :-)

Or are you saying that there is the possibility to name styles and folks
are not using them enough? Maybe so. Especially when dealing with long
documents, in time one usually tends to think in "CSS terms": the
document creator should focus an writing content and needs to define
_what_ a certain paragraph is (bodytext, heading x, etc.). The template
creator needs to specify how a certain type of paragraph should look
like. And if this guy specifies 30 styles instead of 10, then the writer
will probably either kick his behinds or only use a fraction of the styles.

[Besides, I shudder to think what would happen if people really used up
all features there are in Word ;-)]


I gotta tell you I'm not very impressed with MS Word so far for long
documents and desktop publishing.

Well, Microsoft (not even marketing, I'd wager) doesn't pretend that
Word is a DTP application. You can try to use it as one, but you will
always get poorer results than with, say, LaTeX or Indesign.

But if you learn to use Word professionally, you will reach maybe 80-90%
of the overall "quality" (though who would really be able to measure
that ...) of the above products. The question is, whether you will find
anyone to be willing to pay for the top 10-20%.

Now, if you *do* work in Word, and end up having to do the finish on
such a well-structured document (making it ready for PrePress, for
instance), then and only then can you think about deviating from your
styleset. For instance, if you really invest a lot in this document, you
might turn off automatic hyphenation and apply hyphenation manually (and
sparingly) throughout the document. You might change a spacing before or
after in some paragraph or other, but _very_ sparingly. I would, *in
this case only*, use direct formatting -- simply beceause it's very easy
to strip it out for the second edition of the next printing. But more
likely than spacing before/after I'd set one of the properties in the
2nd tab of Format | Paragraph, to force one para to a new page ("Keep
with next", "Keep lines togehter", etc.).

YMMV
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
I think you still don't understand. You don't create a new level 2 style
based on Heading 2 (or anything else). You use the built-in Heading 2 style
modified to suit your purposes. If you want Heading 2 to have 6 pts Space
Before and After, then modify it accordingly.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Doing what you describe I would end up with *multiple Heading 2
Styles*. This is what my document now has. The problem I have is how to
name the Heading 2 Style to describe what it does (Heading 2 to have 6
pts Space Before and After, Heading 2 to have 6pts Space After, etc. )
so that the my Heading 2 Style names are *not changed* by MS Word. I
also am unclear on what to do when different styles follow an instance
of a Heading 2 Style.

When I do this in Open Office Writer it does not change my Heading 2
Style names like MS World does.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Charles Kenyon wrote:
Is there something wrong with "Heading 2" ?
... or ...
"Heading 2,h2,myname"
?
You can add names or shortcuts or abbreviations to the names of any of the
built-in styles by adding them, preceded by commas, in the Modify Style
dialog.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!

My criminal defense site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


"You can add names or shortcuts or abbreviations to the names of any of
the built-in styles by adding them, preceded by commas, in the Modify
Style dialog."

Okay. I will try this. I have not been using commas. I have tried
underscores and plus signs and this had not stopped MS Word from
changing my Heading Style name.

Sure would be nice if your suggestion worked. :)

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

anon k wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
See inline comments,

anon k wrote:

jon_banquer wrote:

I would appreciate some help on the document that I have uploaded he


http://download.yousendit.com/7D404C5467913476


After you have downloaded it here are the problems I'm having:


Download a 22 MB file without any warning that it's going to be that
big? You're asking a lot of bandwidth, patience and macrovirus risk.
Surely you could at least post a cut-down document to illustrate your point.


You want me to use Camtasia and do a video and post it ? The file will
probably be larger but at least you won't have any chance of getting a
Word virus. I don't think 22 megs is really that big in todays world
unless your on AOL / dialup.

A short document will suffice. 22 megs is a big file for many of us
regardless of what ISP we're using. You're sending vast quantities of
unnecessary data and asking us to sift through it to find your problems.
I don't see why anyone here should isolate your problems for you.

Your sarcastic suggestion about Camtasia really doesn't help your
situation. Nor does your diversionary tactic (in your other post) about
people being scared of MS software. It's your document that we don't
trust. By sending the entire thing, and then asking US to isolate all
of your problems from the surrounding data, you're coming across as
lazy, unreasonably demanding, and unappreciative. Your poor spelling,
punctuation and grammar only bolster that appearance.

Headings... what is the best way to name them ?

Use the inbuilt heading system, and keep the default names.


How do you do that when you have numerous instances of say Heading 2 ?
Heading 2 with 6 before. Heading 2 with 6 after. Heading 2 with ....

If you want to control the text like that, then you don't want to use
hierarchical styles at all. Styles are for consistency and to emulate
traditional typesetting. You're asking for inconsistency which, in
traditional typesetting, is simply not done.

That said, you can modify each heading separately. You can also create
custom styles based on heading styles and name them "spaced heading 6pt
before" and so on.

As for your other comment about Word being unsuitable for desktop
publishing, why use it if you want a desktop publisher? Word is a word
processor, not a desktop publisher, so of course it's not going to serve
as a desktop publisher. It doesn't even do a good job of justification
and footnote text flow!

If desktop publishing is what you want, you could switch to FrameMaker,
PageMaker, TeX or MSPublisher. Each has different strengths and weaknesses.


"Your sarcastic suggestion about Camtasia really doesn't help your
situation."

I note that you have again rejected an alternative suggestion to qualm
your high level of fear about MS Word viruses and what you claim is a
large download.

"Nor does your diversionary tactic (in your other post) about people
being scared of MS software."

Seems to me the diversionary tactic is what you are using because your
not about to make the time to look at what I posted. That's fine. Why
not just shut up then and let those who care enough and who want to
help, help.

"If you want to control the text like that, then you don't want to use
hierarchical styles at all. Styles are for consistency and to emulate
traditional typesetting. You're asking for inconsistency which, in
traditional typesetting, is simply not done."

So what do you suggest I do to get the consistent formating I need ? If
your going to make a statement like this then back it up with specific
suggestions based on the document I posted otherwise you come across as
"unreasonably demanding, and unappreciative."

Your poor understanding of the subject matter that I posted shows that
you have to focus on punctuation and grammar rather then on content.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

As others have told you, you should not have different versions of the same
heading style. If in certain cases you absolutely have to change the
formatting of a specific paragraph in the given style, you can do that
without changing the style or creating a new style. If Word (2002 or 2003)
appears to be creating a new style, realize that this is not a style, just
formatting; you will not see these variations if you clear the check box for
"Keep track of formatting" on the Edit tab of Tools | Options.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
oups.com...

Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
I think you still don't understand. You don't create a new level 2 style
based on Heading 2 (or anything else). You use the built-in Heading 2
style
modified to suit your purposes. If you want Heading 2 to have 6 pts
Space
Before and After, then modify it accordingly.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Doing what you describe I would end up with *multiple Heading 2
Styles*. This is what my document now has. The problem I have is how to
name the Heading 2 Style to describe what it does (Heading 2 to have 6
pts Space Before and After, Heading 2 to have 6pts Space After, etc. )
so that the my Heading 2 Style names are *not changed* by MS Word. I
also am unclear on what to do when different styles follow an instance
of a Heading 2 Style.

When I do this in Open Office Writer it does not change my Heading 2
Style names like MS World does.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Robert M. Franz (RMF) wrote:
Hi jon

jon_banquer wrote:
A good and pretty comprehensive primer which answer many of your
questions can be found at:

Creating a Template (Part II, by John McGhie)
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...platePart2.htm

If you follow that while creating your template and subsequent document,
you won't have problems with stray formatting anymore, either.
[..]
Use the built-in styles, but change them to your liking.

Please be more specific. How do I name Heading Styles and make Word
happy ?

I repeat: you don't! (Or: I would not.)

In the mean time, curiosity got the better of me, and I actually did
download your document. As others have stated in this thread: you might
have mentioned its size when posting -- and you might also have stripped
it down to a sensible size for us to download!

The document looks at least structered in the sense that styles have
been used in favour of direct formatting. There are, however, empty
paragraphs every other page (well, I didn't look too far into the
document, to be honest) -- that's something which is a no-no in any long
document.

Plus: you have way too many styles to describe _structure_, i.e. a
handful of Heading 2 and Heading 3 styles each, w/ and w/o 6pt spacing
before/after etc. I would never do that. The style name should (try to)
describe what a paragraph is, and the definition of the style should
determine how the paragraph is supposed to look. But you do not want
more than one "Heading 2 style" (at least not when your headings are
unnumbered). So, before we go any further: Why do you think you need 3
different styles with different formatting, if all instances really are
headings of the 2nd or 3rd hierarchy?

I intentionally did not delete the above article in this post, so I
really urge you: read it.


Example:

How would I name a Heading 2 Style that has a space of 6 before and 6
after so that Word is happy and doesn't change the name? What do you
suggest I base this Heading 2 Style on and what should I use for the
following paragraph when the following paragraphs are different thru
out the document ?

I would simply _not_ define more than one Heading 2 style. More to
spacing before/above at the bottom of this post.

The definition of follow-up style is a property that helps the writer,
i.e., when you are in a paragraph of this style, and you hit Return,
then the new paragraph has this follow-up style set. It really is only a
setting that kicks-in in this very Return. Afterwards, the writer may
decide to reassign a different style, and the follow-up of the above
paragraph will never be re-evaluated.

When I decide on a styleset for a new type of document, today more than
ever, I ask myself: how many styles do I really need? Take as many as
absolutely needed, as few as possible.


Is it my imagination or are Microsoft users very fearful of the
applications that Microsoft makes ?

[out-of-context error] Sorry, you lost me there. :-)

Or are you saying that there is the possibility to name styles and folks
are not using them enough? Maybe so. Especially when dealing with long
documents, in time one usually tends to think in "CSS terms": the
document creator should focus an writing content and needs to define
_what_ a certain paragraph is (bodytext, heading x, etc.). The template
creator needs to specify how a certain type of paragraph should look
like. And if this guy specifies 30 styles instead of 10, then the writer
will probably either kick his behinds or only use a fraction of the styles.

[Besides, I shudder to think what would happen if people really used up
all features there are in Word ;-)]


I gotta tell you I'm not very impressed with MS Word so far for long
documents and desktop publishing.

Well, Microsoft (not even marketing, I'd wager) doesn't pretend that
Word is a DTP application. You can try to use it as one, but you will
always get poorer results than with, say, LaTeX or Indesign.

But if you learn to use Word professionally, you will reach maybe 80-90%
of the overall "quality" (though who would really be able to measure
that ...) of the above products. The question is, whether you will find
anyone to be willing to pay for the top 10-20%.

Now, if you *do* work in Word, and end up having to do the finish on
such a well-structured document (making it ready for PrePress, for
instance), then and only then can you think about deviating from your
styleset. For instance, if you really invest a lot in this document, you
might turn off automatic hyphenation and apply hyphenation manually (and
sparingly) throughout the document. You might change a spacing before or
after in some paragraph or other, but _very_ sparingly. I would, *in
this case only*, use direct formatting -- simply beceause it's very easy
to strip it out for the second edition of the next printing. But more
likely than spacing before/after I'd set one of the properties in the
2nd tab of Format | Paragraph, to force one para to a new page ("Keep
with next", "Keep lines togehter", etc.).

YMMV
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

"The document looks at least structered in the sense that styles have
been used in favour of direct formatting."

Correct.

"There are, however, empty paragraphs every other page (well, I didn't
look too far into the document, to be honest) -- that's something which
is a no-no in any long
document."

Only time I do that is to get the manual page breaks I put in to be the
lowest thing on the page. Also I do it this on the top of each page in
case I need to do further editing as this at one point seemed to help
me. Since no one has addressed my question on page breaks I still have
a lot of questions. Also the questions I asked on what appear to be
phony styles have not been addressed.

I tried copying the entire Word document to a new Word document but
this did not work. What did work is loading the document into Open
Office Writer.... where what I think are phony Styles disappeared !

When I get home from work I will read through the rest of your post and
see if I can see what your alternative suggestion is for doing a way
with the same headings that have different space before and after
cases.

Since you did take the time to download my document but have not looked
through it maybe you can look through it and see why I chose to /
needed to have the same Heading with different spaces before and after.

I gotta tell you that even though I just started using Open Office
Writer I'm not having these problems in Open Office Writer !

Makes me wonder why. :)

Also the documentation that is written by their volunteers is just
excellent. Way better than what MS provides with Word !

In any case more specifics on what I should change after you have
looked through the rest of my document would be very helpful.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

It will rename the style, that is what this is about, letting you call the
same style by different names. You should only have one Heading 2 style in
your document, regardless of its name. You can have multiple styles that are
at heading level 2, they must be part of different list templates (I think).

Take the time to read the article by John McGhie and to set up your styles
using the procedures that Shauna Kelly gives to implement this. Yes, it is
hard, but it does work.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!

My criminal defense site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


"jon_banquer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Charles Kenyon wrote:
Is there something wrong with "Heading 2" ?
... or ...
"Heading 2,h2,myname"
?
You can add names or shortcuts or abbreviations to the names of any of
the
built-in styles by adding them, preceded by commas, in the Modify Style
dialog.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!

My criminal defense site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


"You can add names or shortcuts or abbreviations to the names of any of
the built-in styles by adding them, preceded by commas, in the Modify
Style dialog."

Okay. I will try this. I have not been using commas. I have tried
underscores and plus signs and this had not stopped MS Word from
changing my Heading Style name.

Sure would be nice if your suggestion worked. :)

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

jon_banquer wrote:
[..]
"There are, however, empty paragraphs every other page (well, I didn't
look too far into the document, to be honest) -- that's something which
is a no-no in any long document."

Only time I do that is to get the manual page breaks I put in to be the
lowest thing on the page.

Don't use manual page breaks. If you want to force a paragraph unto a
new page, set its paragraph property (Format | Paragraph in the 2nd tab:
"Page break before").


Also I do it this on the top of each page in
case I need to do further editing as this at one point seemed to help
me.

OK, if you take an empty paragraph that you still need to insert
something in there, that's fine. While you are at that stage of the
document, you should not at all think about final pagination, though
(and not about whether a certain paragraph should have more or less
spacing before/after).


Since you did take the time to download my document but have not looked
through it maybe you can look through it and see why I chose to /
needed to have the same Heading with different spaces before and after.

I have looked "through" it, but it still escapes me why you would _want_
to have differently spaced heading 2 styles. Nothing in there will tell
me that, only you can.


I gotta tell you that even though I just started using Open Office
Writer I'm not having these problems in Open Office Writer !

Makes me wonder why. :)

Maybe it suits your way of working better. Word's styles, esp. when it
comes to heading/numbering styles, have a somewhat steep learning curve.


Also the documentation that is written by their volunteers is just
excellent. Way better than what MS provides with Word !

Well, you just have to check out the documentation by the MS volunteers,
too! ;-)


In any case more specifics on what I should change after you have
looked through the rest of my document would be very helpful.

I suggest you take a look through all the answers in this thread again,
carefully, and read up on referenced material. And answer questions by
those who try to help you. [But don't expect anyone on the Usenet to do
your work for you ... :-)]

HTH
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

Robert M. Franz (RMF) wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
[..]
"There are, however, empty paragraphs every other page (well, I didn't
look too far into the document, to be honest) -- that's something which
is a no-no in any long document."

Only time I do that is to get the manual page breaks I put in to be the
lowest thing on the page.

Don't use manual page breaks. If you want to force a paragraph unto a
new page, set its paragraph property (Format | Paragraph in the 2nd tab:
"Page break before").


Also I do it this on the top of each page in
case I need to do further editing as this at one point seemed to help
me.

OK, if you take an empty paragraph that you still need to insert
something in there, that's fine. While you are at that stage of the
document, you should not at all think about final pagination, though
(and not about whether a certain paragraph should have more or less
spacing before/after).


Since you did take the time to download my document but have not looked
through it maybe you can look through it and see why I chose to /
needed to have the same Heading with different spaces before and after.

I have looked "through" it, but it still escapes me why you would _want_
to have differently spaced heading 2 styles. Nothing in there will tell
me that, only you can.


I gotta tell you that even though I just started using Open Office
Writer I'm not having these problems in Open Office Writer !

Makes me wonder why. :)

Maybe it suits your way of working better. Word's styles, esp. when it
comes to heading/numbering styles, have a somewhat steep learning curve.


Also the documentation that is written by their volunteers is just
excellent. Way better than what MS provides with Word !

Well, you just have to check out the documentation by the MS volunteers,
too! ;-)


In any case more specifics on what I should change after you have
looked through the rest of my document would be very helpful.

I suggest you take a look through all the answers in this thread again,
carefully, and read up on referenced material. And answer questions by
those who try to help you. [But don't expect anyone on the Usenet to do
your work for you ... :-)]

HTH
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word


Hi Robert,

"Don't use manual page breaks. If you want to force a paragraph unto a
new page, set its paragraph property (Format | Paragraph in the 2nd
tab: "Page break before")."

Okay. This is how I'm now creating manual page breaks using Open Office
Writer. I have decided to port what I have done in MS Word to Open
Office Writer which so far does *exactly what I want* with Styles and
with Headings. I am not having the problems with Headings or Styles in
Open Office Writer that I was having with MS Word. I can name the
Headings whatever I want and how I want. I also don't have phony Styles
appearing like I did with MS Word. The Open Office program
documentation written by people like Jean Weber is superior in IMO to
what I consider to be the crap that is provided with MS Word or in any
of the Word books I have seen. Here is a link for anyone who wants to
see what I believe quality documentation looks like:

http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/use..._of_index_html

"I have looked "through" it, but it still escapes me why you would
_want_ to have differently spaced heading 2 styles. Nothing in there
will tell me that, only you can. "

Okay. Fair enough. One reason is that I often have Headings that follow
each other with no text after then and I want space between the
Headings. The minute I try and create say several types of Heading 2
Styles, MS Word starts to break my chops. Open Office Writer doesn't.
What would you do if you sometimes needed a Heading 2 Style with say 6
after and sometimes you didn't? Another example would be following a
table where I need the Heading to have 6 pts before so there is space
between the table and the Heading. What do you do in this case? Do you
create a table that has phony space so that the text has separation
from the table?

"Well, you just have to check out the documentation by the MS
volunteers, too! ;-)"

Nothing on the sites that have been posted deal with MS World creating
phony styles that I can't get rid of... well one sort of does but the
technique does not work to get rid of the phony styles that MS Word had
created in my document! Nothing on these sites deals with why MS Word
gives me so much grief with Heading Styles where Open Office Writer has
no problem with what I want to do with Headings. So far Open Office
Writer does not break my chops on how I name a Style and so far Open
Office Writer has not renamed any of my Styles. :)

At present I feel that MS Word has unneeded restrictions on Headings
and Styles that Open Office Writer does not have. For me MS Word does a
very poor job with giving the user real control and a easy way to deal
with Headings and Styles.

"Maybe it suits your way of working better. Word's styles, esp. when it
comes to heading/numbering styles, have a somewhat steep learning
curve."

What has been posted sound like elaborate work arounds that are not
required in Open Office Writer.

I have made a good deal of changes in my document based on a book that
I have been reading authored by Robin Williams. I have reduced the size
of my body text to 10.5 points and changed to a serif font for the
body. I reduced the size of the font used for my Headings and changed
from Arial to Bitstream and made the Headings blue instead of black. I
have made even greater use of tables for data and have given them a
blue border with light gray cell lines. I'm trying hard to open things
up and give this very long document a lighter feel that makes it more
enjoyable to look at and easier to read.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Charles Kenyon wrote:
It will rename the style, that is what this is about, letting you call the
same style by different names. You should only have one Heading 2 style in
your document, regardless of its name. You can have multiple styles that are
at heading level 2, they must be part of different list templates (I think).

Take the time to read the article by John McGhie and to set up your styles
using the procedures that Shauna Kelly gives to implement this. Yes, it is
hard, but it does work.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!

My criminal defense site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


Charles,

I seem to remember that the advise given on Shauna Kellys website says
use the existing MS Word Heading names and don't rename them. If your
suggestion works then perhaps her website should also state cases where
one must give Headings unique names? I wonder if Adobe Acrobat will
recognize Heading Styles with unique names at their assigned proper
levels? Have you or anyone else experimented with this to see if Adobe
Acrobat will recognize unique Heading Style names at their proper
levels?

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

I haven't experimented with Adobe. Adobe is known for not being well behaved
when using with Word.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!

My criminal defense site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


"jon_banquer" wrote in message
ups.com...

Charles Kenyon wrote:
It will rename the style, that is what this is about, letting you call
the
same style by different names. You should only have one Heading 2 style
in
your document, regardless of its name. You can have multiple styles that
are
at heading level 2, they must be part of different list templates (I
think).

Take the time to read the article by John McGhie and to set up your
styles
using the procedures that Shauna Kelly gives to implement this. Yes, it
is
hard, but it does work.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!

My criminal defense site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


Charles,

I seem to remember that the advise given on Shauna Kellys website says
use the existing MS Word Heading names and don't rename them. If your
suggestion works then perhaps her website should also state cases where
one must give Headings unique names? I wonder if Adobe Acrobat will
recognize Heading Styles with unique names at their assigned proper
levels? Have you or anyone else experimented with this to see if Adobe
Acrobat will recognize unique Heading Style names at their proper
levels?

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Charles Kenyon wrote:
I haven't experimented with Adobe. Adobe is known for not being well behaved
when using with Word.

I've had no problem at all from Distiller when making pdfs from Word,
including extensive graphics and footnotes. The pdfs are unnecessarily
large, however, especially when graphics are involved. The same
document treated with LaTeX - dvips - pdf can comes out as much as two
thirds smaller. I suspect that this is at least partly because I use
eps graphics in LaTeX but png in most other software (including Word).

I still think the "phony styles" you're seeing in Word are just formatting.
Have you tried clearing the check box for "Keep track of formatting" on the
Edit tab of Tools | Options?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
ups.com...
Robert M. Franz (RMF) wrote:
jon_banquer wrote:
[..]
"There are, however, empty paragraphs every other page (well, I didn't
look too far into the document, to be honest) -- that's something
which
is a no-no in any long document."

Only time I do that is to get the manual page breaks I put in to be
the
lowest thing on the page.

Don't use manual page breaks. If you want to force a paragraph unto a
new page, set its paragraph property (Format | Paragraph in the 2nd tab:
"Page break before").


Also I do it this on the top of each page in
case I need to do further editing as this at one point seemed to help
me.

OK, if you take an empty paragraph that you still need to insert
something in there, that's fine. While you are at that stage of the
document, you should not at all think about final pagination, though
(and not about whether a certain paragraph should have more or less
spacing before/after).


Since you did take the time to download my document but have not
looked
through it maybe you can look through it and see why I chose to /
needed to have the same Heading with different spaces before and
after.

I have looked "through" it, but it still escapes me why you would _want_
to have differently spaced heading 2 styles. Nothing in there will tell
me that, only you can.


I gotta tell you that even though I just started using Open Office
Writer I'm not having these problems in Open Office Writer !

Makes me wonder why. :)

Maybe it suits your way of working better. Word's styles, esp. when it
comes to heading/numbering styles, have a somewhat steep learning curve.


Also the documentation that is written by their volunteers is just
excellent. Way better than what MS provides with Word !

Well, you just have to check out the documentation by the MS volunteers,
too! ;-)


In any case more specifics on what I should change after you have
looked through the rest of my document would be very helpful.

I suggest you take a look through all the answers in this thread again,
carefully, and read up on referenced material. And answer questions by
those who try to help you. [But don't expect anyone on the Usenet to do
your work for you ... :-)]

HTH
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word


Hi Robert,

"Don't use manual page breaks. If you want to force a paragraph unto a
new page, set its paragraph property (Format | Paragraph in the 2nd
tab: "Page break before")."

Okay. This is how I'm now creating manual page breaks using Open Office
Writer. I have decided to port what I have done in MS Word to Open
Office Writer which so far does *exactly what I want* with Styles and
with Headings. I am not having the problems with Headings or Styles in
Open Office Writer that I was having with MS Word. I can name the
Headings whatever I want and how I want. I also don't have phony Styles
appearing like I did with MS Word. The Open Office program
documentation written by people like Jean Weber is superior in IMO to
what I consider to be the crap that is provided with MS Word or in any
of the Word books I have seen. Here is a link for anyone who wants to
see what I believe quality documentation looks like:

http://oooauthors.org/en/authors/use..._of_index_html

"I have looked "through" it, but it still escapes me why you would
_want_ to have differently spaced heading 2 styles. Nothing in there
will tell me that, only you can. "

Okay. Fair enough. One reason is that I often have Headings that follow
each other with no text after then and I want space between the
Headings. The minute I try and create say several types of Heading 2
Styles, MS Word starts to break my chops. Open Office Writer doesn't.
What would you do if you sometimes needed a Heading 2 Style with say 6
after and sometimes you didn't? Another example would be following a
table where I need the Heading to have 6 pts before so there is space
between the table and the Heading. What do you do in this case? Do you
create a table that has phony space so that the text has separation
from the table?

"Well, you just have to check out the documentation by the MS
volunteers, too! ;-)"

Nothing on the sites that have been posted deal with MS World creating
phony styles that I can't get rid of... well one sort of does but the
technique does not work to get rid of the phony styles that MS Word had
created in my document! Nothing on these sites deals with why MS Word
gives me so much grief with Heading Styles where Open Office Writer has
no problem with what I want to do with Headings. So far Open Office
Writer does not break my chops on how I name a Style and so far Open
Office Writer has not renamed any of my Styles. :)

At present I feel that MS Word has unneeded restrictions on Headings
and Styles that Open Office Writer does not have. For me MS Word does a
very poor job with giving the user real control and a easy way to deal
with Headings and Styles.

"Maybe it suits your way of working better. Word's styles, esp. when it
comes to heading/numbering styles, have a somewhat steep learning
curve."

What has been posted sound like elaborate work arounds that are not
required in Open Office Writer.

I have made a good deal of changes in my document based on a book that
I have been reading authored by Robin Williams. I have reduced the size
of my body text to 10.5 points and changed to a serif font for the
body. I reduced the size of the font used for my Headings and changed
from Arial to Bitstream and made the Headings blue instead of black. I
have made even greater use of tables for data and have given them a
blue border with light gray cell lines. I'm trying hard to open things
up and give this very long document a lighter feel that makes it more
enjoyable to look at and easier to read.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

anon k wrote:
I've had no problem at all from Distiller when making pdfs from Word,
including extensive graphics and footnotes. The pdfs are unnecessarily
large, however, especially when graphics are involved.

Then change Distiller's joboptions.

Greetings
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

Robert M. Franz (RMF) wrote:
anon k wrote:

I've had no problem at all from Distiller when making pdfs from Word,
including extensive graphics and footnotes. The pdfs are
unnecessarily large, however, especially when graphics are involved.


Then change Distiller's joboptions.

My experience is that Ghostscript tends to produce more compact pdf
files, even for text-only documents. Fiddling with Distiller's
joboptions doesn't seem to bring the bulk down to the same level.

Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
I still think the "phony styles" you're seeing in Word are just formatting.
Have you tried clearing the check box for "Keep track of formatting" on the
Edit tab of Tools | Options?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


Suzanne,

You are correct. Unchecking the check box for Keep Track Of Formatting
removed them.

Thanks. :)

I have to be honest, I like Open Office Writer so much better than I'm
just Writer at the moment to finish the big file I uploaded. I'm about
20 percent done. I've had zero problems so far with Open Office Writer
and greatly prefer it. Writer is very logical and is very stable. One
thing I especially like are Writers Frames which allow me to control
space above and below the extensive bitmaps I'm using.

Curious to know how you control spacing above and beyond a Word Table ?
The only way I can see to do it is by controlling the text around the
Word Table.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Although it has been suggested (to MS) that some other method be introduced,
at present the only way to add space above or below a *bordered* table is to
add it to the paragraphs above and below. For unbordered tables, it can be
added to the top and bottom rows.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
I still think the "phony styles" you're seeing in Word are just
formatting.
Have you tried clearing the check box for "Keep track of formatting" on
the
Edit tab of Tools | Options?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.


Suzanne,

You are correct. Unchecking the check box for Keep Track Of Formatting
removed them.

Thanks. :)

I have to be honest, I like Open Office Writer so much better than I'm
just Writer at the moment to finish the big file I uploaded. I'm about
20 percent done. I've had zero problems so far with Open Office Writer
and greatly prefer it. Writer is very logical and is very stable. One
thing I especially like are Writers Frames which allow me to control
space above and below the extensive bitmaps I'm using.

Curious to know how you control spacing above and beyond a Word Table ?
The only way I can see to do it is by controlling the text around the
Word Table.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
Although it has been suggested (to MS) that some other method be introduced,
at present the only way to add space above or below a *bordered* table is to
add it to the paragraphs above and below. For unbordered tables, it can be
added to the top and bottom rows.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.


That's what I thought.

For me working in Open Office Writer with it's concept of Frames is so
much easier then what Word offers. In general I find Open Office Writer
to be a much better thought out program then what MS Word is.

It seems to me that to get many things done in MS Word require work
arounds and kluges that are not necessary in Open Office Writer.

I appreciate your input. Thanks again.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona