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Jacqueline
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

I have been involved in several discussions regarding this recently and
would like to try and clear this up. My firm hold the normal.dot (and
all other templates) in a central templates folder on our network.
Each user has a copy on their C drive which updates every day when they
log on. This means if the network crashes they can still work with
their template(s). Normal.dot contains all of our macros, styles,
autotexts etc. When I update I simply update the master version and
this is replicated to each pc. This means if a user's normal.dot gets
damaged it can be copied from the master, and if something goes wrong
with the master I can copy my (or someone else's c drive version).

This seems to work well but everything I read tells me we shouldn't use
normal.dot as our blank document - can anyone tell me a good reason
why we should change?

thanks

  #2   Report Post  
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Jezebel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

"everything I read tells me we shouldn't use normal.dot as our blank
document"

Can you give an example of something you've read that tells you this?
Normal.dot is the default "blank document", by definition. Perhaps you've
misunderstood suggestions about not putting stuff into the headers and
footers of normal.dot, eg to use it as the standard company letterhead or
similar (which is indeed good advice). But if you just want a plain blank
document, there's no need to complicate matters.


  #3   Report Post  
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John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]
 
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Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Hi Jacqueline:

I would say your firm has it close to exactly correct.

My only quibble would be that each time you copy Normal.dot in, you blow
away all of the users' carefully-created customisations :-) I doubt if that
would do much for staff morale -- most users passionately hate being treated
like that.

However, apart from destroying staff morale, "technically" your method is
exactly correct. The Normal template is designed and intended to be the
blank document, and to be used as such.

The method you are using is dramatically simpler to code, administer, and
maintain! And very reliable.

I don't know what you've been reading, but I think I would throw it in the
round file :-)

If your firm is a heavy user of macros and toolbars, you might "consider"
putting those in a global add-in. You can administer that exactly the same
way: put it on the network and copy it to the user's Word/Startup folder
each time you update it.

In your situation, there's no real benefit in doing this, other than the
fact that a global add-in is not subject to constant change by normal Word
usage, so it will last longer between "damages". It would also mean you did
not need to blow the user's customisations away every morning :-)

Hope this helps

On 14/3/06 9:57 PM, in article
, "Jacqueline"
wrote:

I have been involved in several discussions regarding this recently and
would like to try and clear this up. My firm hold the normal.dot (and
all other templates) in a central templates folder on our network.
Each user has a copy on their C drive which updates every day when they
log on. This means if the network crashes they can still work with
their template(s). Normal.dot contains all of our macros, styles,
autotexts etc. When I update I simply update the master version and
this is replicated to each pc. This means if a user's normal.dot gets
damaged it can be copied from the master, and if something goes wrong
with the master I can copy my (or someone else's c drive version).

This seems to work well but everything I read tells me we shouldn't use
normal.dot as our blank document - can anyone tell me a good reason
why we should change?

thanks


--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

  #4   Report Post  
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Jonathan West
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template


"Jacqueline" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have been involved in several discussions regarding this recently and
would like to try and clear this up. My firm hold the normal.dot (and
all other templates) in a central templates folder on our network.
Each user has a copy on their C drive which updates every day when they
log on. This means if the network crashes they can still work with
their template(s). Normal.dot contains all of our macros, styles,
autotexts etc. When I update I simply update the master version and
this is replicated to each pc. This means if a user's normal.dot gets
damaged it can be copied from the master, and if something goes wrong
with the master I can copy my (or someone else's c drive version).

This seems to work well but everything I read tells me we shouldn't use
normal.dot as our blank document - can anyone tell me a good reason
why we should change?


Hi Jacqueline

In addition to what John said, this article will also help you work out the
best approach for storing and distributing macros.

Distributing macros to other users
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Macros...buteMacros.htm


--
Regards
Jonathan West - Word MVP
www.intelligentdocuments.co.uk
Please reply to the newsgroup
Keep your VBA code safe, sign the ClassicVB petition www.classicvb.org

  #5   Report Post  
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Charles Kenyon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

A better method is more complex. The problem with your method is that it
will not allow for an individual to customize his or her own Word
configuration without becoming a Word expert. The method you describe is
better than having all users share a single file.

To me, a preferred method would be to have one or more global templates that
hold customizations other than styles and to put styles in document
templates in a workgroup templates folder. Styles should be different in
different uses. For instance, briefs, pleadings, and letters can all use
different formatting to serve the same purposes. When text is copied from
one of these to a different one it will assume the appropriate formatting.
For most routine work, I base a new document not on a blank page, but on a
document template that already has formatting and text appropriate to the
new document. I use the blank page primarily as a scratch pad.

It is also possible to have a global template other than normal.dot hold
styles, but this is not as simple.
http://addbalance.com/word/stylesheet.htm.

See http://addbalance.com/word/movetotemplate.htm for step-by-step
instructions on moving / sharing / copying / backing-up customizations
including AutoText, AutoCorrect, keyboard assignments, toolbars, macros,
etc.

For more on the different kinds of templates, tabs on the file new dialog,
and locations of templates folders see
http://addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm.
--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.



"Jacqueline" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have been involved in several discussions regarding this recently and
would like to try and clear this up. My firm hold the normal.dot (and
all other templates) in a central templates folder on our network.
Each user has a copy on their C drive which updates every day when they
log on. This means if the network crashes they can still work with
their template(s). Normal.dot contains all of our macros, styles,
autotexts etc. When I update I simply update the master version and
this is replicated to each pc. This means if a user's normal.dot gets
damaged it can be copied from the master, and if something goes wrong
with the master I can copy my (or someone else's c drive version).

This seems to work well but everything I read tells me we shouldn't use
normal.dot as our blank document - can anyone tell me a good reason
why we should change?

thanks





  #6   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
Jacqueline
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Thanks to all of you who replied - very reassuring! At present we
prefer to control all add-ins etc so we create any required auto-texts,
macros etc and then make them availabe to users. It means our IT dept
has to maintain these things but we are happy with that. all of our
'proforma' documents are templats and each have their own styles so
users can use styles other than our standard house style when required.

  #7   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
Jacqueline
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Previous firms I've worked with worked with two templates (blank and
normal) and during a VBA training course yesterday the trainer
recommended this. I then looked at previous posts on here and found
suggestions for both methods. Perhaps as you say I have misunderstood
these posts and the blank document template has contained 'add-ins' or
similar.

  #8   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
Jacqueline
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Previous firms I've worked with worked with two templates (blank and
normal) and during a VBA training course yesterday the trainer
recommended this. I then looked at previous posts on here and found
suggestions for both methods. Perhaps as you say I have misunderstood
these posts and the blank document template has contained 'add-ins' or
similar.

  #9   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
Tony Jollans
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

... most users passionately hate being treated like that....

Seconded.

If your, or any other IT department, tried to overwrite my Normal.dot I
would build my own process to make sure I got it back. I have been fighting
this total failure of IT departments to understand users since the days of
mainframes - they couldn't impose central control over designed-in user
customization facilities then and they can't do it now - and trying to do so
shows ignorance and arrogance.

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" wrote in
message ...
Hi Jacqueline:

I would say your firm has it close to exactly correct.

My only quibble would be that each time you copy Normal.dot in, you blow
away all of the users' carefully-created customisations :-) I doubt if

that
would do much for staff morale -- most users passionately hate being

treated
like that.

However, apart from destroying staff morale, "technically" your method is
exactly correct. The Normal template is designed and intended to be the
blank document, and to be used as such.

The method you are using is dramatically simpler to code, administer, and
maintain! And very reliable.

I don't know what you've been reading, but I think I would throw it in the
round file :-)

If your firm is a heavy user of macros and toolbars, you might "consider"
putting those in a global add-in. You can administer that exactly the

same
way: put it on the network and copy it to the user's Word/Startup folder
each time you update it.

In your situation, there's no real benefit in doing this, other than the
fact that a global add-in is not subject to constant change by normal Word
usage, so it will last longer between "damages". It would also mean you

did
not need to blow the user's customisations away every morning :-)

Hope this helps

On 14/3/06 9:57 PM, in article
, "Jacqueline"
wrote:

I have been involved in several discussions regarding this recently and
would like to try and clear this up. My firm hold the normal.dot (and
all other templates) in a central templates folder on our network.
Each user has a copy on their C drive which updates every day when they
log on. This means if the network crashes they can still work with
their template(s). Normal.dot contains all of our macros, styles,
autotexts etc. When I update I simply update the master version and
this is replicated to each pc. This means if a user's normal.dot gets
damaged it can be copied from the master, and if something goes wrong
with the master I can copy my (or someone else's c drive version).

This seems to work well but everything I read tells me we shouldn't use
normal.dot as our blank document - can anyone tell me a good reason
why we should change?

thanks


--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410



  #10   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
Charles Kenyon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Again, this does not need to be done through normal.dot. It is perhaps
marginally easier for your IT people to do it the way I suggest but the
ordinary user should not have to learn how to create an Add-In to save their
own AutoText or macros globally. We regularly get people here who can't
understand why their customizations keep disappearing, and it turns out that
it is their IT departments at work.

Where I've worked, the purpose of the IT department was to make it easier
for the front-line workers to use their computers to get their jobs done,
not to strip those computers of the ability to do that.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.


"Jacqueline" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to all of you who replied - very reassuring! At present we
prefer to control all add-ins etc so we create any required auto-texts,
macros etc and then make them availabe to users. It means our IT dept
has to maintain these things but we are happy with that. all of our
'proforma' documents are templats and each have their own styles so
users can use styles other than our standard house style when required.





  #11   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Hi Jacqueline:

No, I don't think you have misunderstood. This is a vexed question, and
posed with the exact constraints you have, I struggle to find a clear choice
in advising you.

The benefit of using Normal for this purpose a
* It gives you only one file to maintain
* Word starts faster and performs better because it has only one file to
load and hold in memory
* VBA is massively simpler to write because Normal does not suffer from the
context-switching that other files do. Normal is *always* in scope.
* Toolbars and other customisations are *always* available to *all*
documents. Again, because Normal never goes out of scope.

The drawbacks include:
* You blow away the user's customisations every time you update.
* You can't have things "disappear" when the user doesn't need/can't
use/shouldn't use them.
* The user is also writing to your file, regularly and frequently. That
will lead to conflicts and corruptions.
* The brighter and more valuable the user, the more likely they are to be
offended by this behaviour. They will then either fight you, or leave.

The IT department is a "service and support" department. It is there to
"serve" and "support" the users. It should NOT be attempting to "control"
the users (OK, you have to make some exceptions for security, but this is
not one of them :-)) If the users start to "fight" you, IT department will
rapidly lose the battle -- there are more of them than there are IT staff --
collectively, they're smarter and quicker :-)

I suggest that with a very little effort, we could be a lot "nicer" about
this. For example, we could add one line of code to your distribution
script that checks the file last saved date on the user's copy. Replace
their file only if the new one is more recent.

You could put a run-once macro in your Normal.dot that pops up a dialog when
the user starts Word: "Your Normal template has been replaced. Your old
version has been re-named as "Normal.old". If you had customised settings,
please copy them from the old version to the new version. Click here to see
how to do this."

You could be even nicer, and make your run-once macro actually perform the
merge for them :-)

As to the discussion between "Normal" and "Blank Document", I wonder if
there is some confusion the not in your mind, but in the minds of your
instructors.

In Word 2002 and later, a "Blank Document" icon appeared on the toolbar.
This button does NOT necessarily create documents from Normal.dot. There
are specific circumstances under which Normal.dot may not exist in these
applications. If it doesn't, the blank document is produced directly from
Word's hard-coded defaults. That may be what they were referring to.

Hope this helps

On 15/3/06 1:27 AM, in article
, "Jacqueline"
wrote:

Previous firms I've worked with worked with two templates (blank and
normal) and during a VBA training course yesterday the trainer
recommended this. I then looked at previous posts on here and found
suggestions for both methods. Perhaps as you say I have misunderstood
these posts and the blank document template has contained 'add-ins' or
similar.


--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

  #12   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
Tony Jollans
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

A well written summary.

In Word 2002 and later, a "Blank Document" icon appeared on the toolbar.
This button does NOT necessarily create documents from Normal.dot. There
are specific circumstances under which Normal.dot may not exist in these
applications. If it doesn't, the blank document is produced directly from
Word's hard-coded defaults. That may be what they were referring to.


New icon in 2002? Which toolbar?

I was under the impression that, no matter what, a Normal.dot always
existed - at least in memory. Under what circumstances is this not the case?

--
Enjoy,
Tony


  #13   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Hi Tony:

It's on the Standard toolbar, I think. It's labelled "Blank Document"
instead of "New Document", from memory.

Yes, the Normal Template data structure always exists in memory. What I
meant was that the "file" Normal.dot does not always exist. I must admit
that I have never seen a case where it actually didn't. But that's because
in Australia, chances are the first thing we do is change the default
spelling languages from English US, and that would automatically populate
the Normal Template structure with a user specification, which will force
creation of a file.

Cheers


On 16/3/06 12:35 AM, in article , "Tony
Jollans" My Forename at My Surname dot com wrote:

A well written summary.

In Word 2002 and later, a "Blank Document" icon appeared on the toolbar.
This button does NOT necessarily create documents from Normal.dot. There
are specific circumstances under which Normal.dot may not exist in these
applications. If it doesn't, the blank document is produced directly from
Word's hard-coded defaults. That may be what they were referring to.


New icon in 2002? Which toolbar?

I was under the impression that, no matter what, a Normal.dot always
existed - at least in memory. Under what circumstances is this not the case?

--
Enjoy,
Tony



--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

  #14   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
Shauna Kelly
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Hi John, Tony

I've seen at least one live case where no normal.dot existed, and I learned
about it the hard way: my VBA code went looking for Normal.dot, failed to
find it and crashed. So I don't just assume that it exists any more.

FWIW, when Normal.dot does not exist, Application.NormalTemplate.FullName
will still produce a very convincing string that consists of the
UserTemplates folder & "\Normal.dot". But there may be no such file.

Hope this helps.

Shauna Kelly. Microsoft MVP.
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word


"John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" wrote in
message ...
Hi Tony:

It's on the Standard toolbar, I think. It's labelled "Blank Document"
instead of "New Document", from memory.

Yes, the Normal Template data structure always exists in memory. What I
meant was that the "file" Normal.dot does not always exist. I must admit
that I have never seen a case where it actually didn't. But that's
because
in Australia, chances are the first thing we do is change the default
spelling languages from English US, and that would automatically populate
the Normal Template structure with a user specification, which will force
creation of a file.

Cheers


On 16/3/06 12:35 AM, in article ,
"Tony
Jollans" My Forename at My Surname dot com wrote:

A well written summary.

In Word 2002 and later, a "Blank Document" icon appeared on the toolbar.
This button does NOT necessarily create documents from Normal.dot.
There
are specific circumstances under which Normal.dot may not exist in these
applications. If it doesn't, the blank document is produced directly
from
Word's hard-coded defaults. That may be what they were referring to.


New icon in 2002? Which toolbar?

I was under the impression that, no matter what, a Normal.dot always
existed - at least in memory. Under what circumstances is this not the
case?

--
Enjoy,
Tony



--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410



  #15   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs
Tony Jollans
 
Posts: n/a
Default Normal.dot versus blank document template

Thanks John and Shauna,

You're really just confirming what I thought to be the case having maybe
said it in a different way to start with.

If Normal.dot does not exist in either place Word expects to find it, a new
one will be created (from built-in defaults) in the same way that a new
blank document is created if Word is started without one. If any changes are
made to this normal.dot it will be saved (or the user will be prompted to
save it) - again just like a new blank document. The new normal.dot does not
exist in the OS's file system (neither does the new blank document) but
while Word is open the source of normal.dot is not relevant.

It is a tad confusing that it claims to have a path and about the only way I
know to identify the situation is that the "Last Saved Time" property will
give an error if it has never been saved.


In my Word 2000 I have an icon on the standard toolbar tagged "New Blank
Document"
In my Word 2003 I have an icon on the standard toolbar tagged "New Blank
Document"
I'm not aware of any differences between the two in terms of what they do.

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"Shauna Kelly" wrote in message
...
Hi John, Tony

I've seen at least one live case where no normal.dot existed, and I

learned
about it the hard way: my VBA code went looking for Normal.dot, failed to
find it and crashed. So I don't just assume that it exists any more.

FWIW, when Normal.dot does not exist, Application.NormalTemplate.FullName
will still produce a very convincing string that consists of the
UserTemplates folder & "\Normal.dot". But there may be no such file.

Hope this helps.

Shauna Kelly. Microsoft MVP.
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word


"John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" wrote in
message ...
Hi Tony:

It's on the Standard toolbar, I think. It's labelled "Blank Document"
instead of "New Document", from memory.

Yes, the Normal Template data structure always exists in memory. What I
meant was that the "file" Normal.dot does not always exist. I must

admit
that I have never seen a case where it actually didn't. But that's
because
in Australia, chances are the first thing we do is change the default
spelling languages from English US, and that would automatically

populate
the Normal Template structure with a user specification, which will

force
creation of a file.

Cheers


On 16/3/06 12:35 AM, in article ,
"Tony
Jollans" My Forename at My Surname dot com wrote:

A well written summary.

In Word 2002 and later, a "Blank Document" icon appeared on the

toolbar.
This button does NOT necessarily create documents from Normal.dot.
There
are specific circumstances under which Normal.dot may not exist in

these
applications. If it doesn't, the blank document is produced directly
from
Word's hard-coded defaults. That may be what they were referring to.

New icon in 2002? Which toolbar?

I was under the impression that, no matter what, a Normal.dot always
existed - at least in memory. Under what circumstances is this not the
case?

--
Enjoy,
Tony



--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not

email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410





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