[grammatim[_2_]]

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one, but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Grammatim,

On your 'also' question on fonts, the Word Printing and fonts discussion/news group is one you may want to try through the link
below.

The international features discussion/news group does, from time to time, have the folks from MS globalization drop in

===========
"grammatim" wrote in message ...
[snip]Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one, but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.
--
Please let us know if this has helped,

Bob Buckland ?:-)
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof....printingfonts
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/new....printingfonts

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/communit...s/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi grammatim,

Oops, try the links in below, those in the previous message didn't include '.Word.' in the links g.

========
Bob Buckland ?:-)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof....printingfonts
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/new....printingfonts

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/communit...s/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com

[grammatim[_2_]]

And to think that I thought that when it said "printing fonts" it
meant 'printing fonts' and not 'handling all aspects of fonts before
they reach the printer'.

I'll see what's there ...

On Jun 29, 9:37*pm, "Bob Buckland ?:-\)" 75214.226(At Beautiful
Downtown)compuserve.com wrote:
Hi grammatim,

Oops, try the links in below, those in the previous message *didn't include '.Word.' in the links g.

========
Bob *Buckland *?:-)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
* *news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof....printingfonts
* * or via browser:
* *http://microsoft.com/communities/new...icrosoft.publi...

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
* *http://microsoft.com/office/communit...s/default.mspx
* *or
* * Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
* * news://msnews.microsoft.com

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It should actually be printing.fonts, as the NG is devoted to problems with
printing AND fonts.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
And to think that I thought that when it said "printing fonts" it
meant 'printing fonts' and not 'handling all aspects of fonts before
they reach the printer'.

I'll see what's there ...

On Jun 29, 9:37 pm, "Bob Buckland ?:-\)" 75214.226(At Beautiful
Downtown)compuserve.com wrote:
Hi grammatim,

Oops, try the links in below, those in the previous message didn't include
'.Word.' in the links g.

========
Bob Buckland ?:-)
MS Office System Products MVP

LINKS
A. Specific newsgroup/discussion group mentioned in this message:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof....printingfonts
or via browser:
http://microsoft.com/communities/new...icrosoft.publi...

B. MS Office Community discussion/newsgroups via Web Browser
http://microsoft.com/office/communit...s/default.mspx
or
Microsoft hosted newsgroups via Outlook Express/newsreader
news://msnews.microsoft.com

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Suzanne,

Wellll if we're going to get picky , it would need to be
printing-fonts
theoretically.

Not that MS always followed the naming conventions for newsgroups when it moved from Compuserve forums to Usenet, and with each
group in Microsoft or individual there that sets up a newsgroup having their own idea of how to do things g (although the Word
group is pretty good at following the conventions), the newsgroup naming convention was that a dot indicated a hierarchy separation
so

microsoft.
public.
word.
printingfonts

would, in theory, be a different expectation than creating a new hierarchy break between printing.fonts

Other than alpha and numeric characters the only other items 'allowed' in a string are + or - and each segment of the hierarchy is
supposed to be 14 characters or less

Of course with all of the web clones and overlays of the newsgroups, each with its own name for the same thing (which explains some
of why there are postings where folks use a google search to find 'lots of people with the same problem' where it can actually be
one person in multiple slurps), the naming conventions aren't always adhered to these days

Now what was that term you used the other day g,d & r

============
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ...
It should actually be printing.fonts, as the NG is devoted to problems with
printing AND fonts.

Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
--

Bob Buckland ?:-)
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I was working from the analogy of spelling.grammar and drawing.graphics. I'm
deeply ignorant about Usenet conventions generally.

Now what was that term you used the other day g,d & r

Beats me. When/where/in what context did I use it?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Bob Buckland ?:-)" 75214.226(At Beautiful Downtown)compuserve.com wrote
in message ...
Hi Suzanne,

Wellll if we're going to get picky , it would need to be
printing-fonts
theoretically.

Not that MS always followed the naming conventions for newsgroups when it
moved from Compuserve forums to Usenet, and with each
group in Microsoft or individual there that sets up a newsgroup having
their own idea of how to do things g (although the Word
group is pretty good at following the conventions), the newsgroup naming
convention was that a dot indicated a hierarchy separation
so

microsoft.
public.
word.
printingfonts

would, in theory, be a different expectation than creating a new hierarchy
break between printing.fonts

Other than alpha and numeric characters the only other items 'allowed' in
a string are + or - and each segment of the hierarchy is
supposed to be 14 characters or less

Of course with all of the web clones and overlays of the newsgroups, each
with its own name for the same thing (which explains some
of why there are postings where folks use a google search to find 'lots of
people with the same problem' where it can actually be
one person in multiple slurps), the naming conventions aren't always
adhered to these days

Now what was that term you used the other day g,d & r

============
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
It should actually be printing.fonts, as the NG is devoted to problems
with
printing AND fonts.

Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
--

Bob Buckland ?:-)
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

[Tony Jollans]

Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion around this
issue he
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e6bf1c72d7899e

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it depends what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one, but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.

[grammatim[_2_]]

On Jul 5, 6:22*pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion around this
issue hehttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e.developer.co...

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

google groups didn't show it to me, but sent me directly to the middle
of a thread, which I didn't have time to look for the beginning of
yet.

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it depends what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

Frinstance, I get all my macronned letters with Ctrl+Alt+hyphen,
letter. If I need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for u-macron, I type
C-A-hyphen, u and a u-macron goes into the Replace window; but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, I type C-A-hyphen,
i and nothing at all goes into the Replace window! I have to do it by
typing C-A-hyphen, i in the text, Copy and Paste to the Replace
window, and then it's fine.

(One of the letters that insists on its own font -- sometimes Times
New Roman, sometimes Simsun -- when I type it into the text is a-
macron. But it goes happily into the Replace window, and gets replaced
in the correct font.)
--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one, but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.-

[Tony Jollans]

Sorry - this seems to have been ignored. I doubt I'm much help - I wish I
understood these things - but I should at least have the decency to reply.

F&R is a funny beast with a mind of its own; it doesn't always work as you
might expect with non-ascii characters but sometimes it does what you want
without quite managing to show it correctly.

I know little about this but I wonder whether code pages have anything to do
with it. Might the code page used in the F&R dialogue differ from the one
used in the body of the document? Or might it even be trying to do some kind
of conversion of your input? Does it work if you hold Alt and type in the
character code (I don't know what code page you are using so don't know what
code to use to try it).

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 5, 6:22 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion around this
issue
hehttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e.developer.co...

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

google groups didn't show it to me, but sent me directly to the middle
of a thread, which I didn't have time to look for the beginning of
yet.

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it depends
what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

Frinstance, I get all my macronned letters with Ctrl+Alt+hyphen,
letter. If I need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for u-macron, I type
C-A-hyphen, u and a u-macron goes into the Replace window; but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, I type C-A-hyphen,
i and nothing at all goes into the Replace window! I have to do it by
typing C-A-hyphen, i in the text, Copy and Paste to the Replace
window, and then it's fine.

(One of the letters that insists on its own font -- sometimes Times
New Roman, sometimes Simsun -- when I type it into the text is a-
macron. But it goes happily into the Replace window, and gets replaced
in the correct font.)
--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one, but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.-

[grammatim[_2_]]

Well ... my new computer (with return of my old hard drive as a second
internal hard drive) receipt got moved from two days ago to tomorrow
(inshallah), so I can't test anything yet ... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Or, F & R being a phenomenon of the distant past, maybe it uses some
legacy materials ...

On Aug 9, 6:08 am, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
Sorry - this seems to have been ignored. I doubt I'm much help - I wish I
understood these things - but I should at least have the decency to reply.

F&R is a funny beast with a mind of its own; it doesn't always work as you
might expect with non-ascii characters but sometimes it does what you want
without quite managing to show it correctly.

I know little about this but I wonder whether code pages have anything to do
with it. Might the code page used in the F&R dialogue differ from the one
used in the body of the document? Or might it even be trying to do some kind
of conversion of your input? Does it work if you hold Alt and type in the
character code (I don't know what code page you are using so don't know what
code to use to try it).

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 6:22 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:

Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion around this
issue
hehttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e.developer.co...

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

google groups didn't show it to me, but sent me directly to the middle
of a thread, which I didn't have time to look for the beginning of
yet.

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it depends
what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

Frinstance, I get all my macronned letters with Ctrl+Alt+hyphen,
letter. If I need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for u-macron, I type
C-A-hyphen, u and a u-macron goes into the Replace window; but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, I type C-A-hyphen,
i and nothing at all goes into the Replace window! I have to do it by
typing C-A-hyphen, i in the text, Copy and Paste to the Replace
window, and then it's fine.

(One of the letters that insists on its own font -- sometimes Times
New Roman, sometimes Simsun -- when I type it into the text is a-
macron. But it goes happily into the Replace window, and gets replaced
in the correct font.)

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one, but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.-

[Tony Jollans]

... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Well, earlier, you said ..

but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, ...

So I assumed you were dealing with things from the distant past. What do you
mean by "pre-Unicode"?

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
Well ... my new computer (with return of my old hard drive as a second
internal hard drive) receipt got moved from two days ago to tomorrow
(inshallah), so I can't test anything yet ... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Or, F & R being a phenomenon of the distant past, maybe it uses some
legacy materials ...

On Aug 9, 6:08 am, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
Sorry - this seems to have been ignored. I doubt I'm much help - I wish I
understood these things - but I should at least have the decency to
reply.

F&R is a funny beast with a mind of its own; it doesn't always work as
you
might expect with non-ascii characters but sometimes it does what you
want
without quite managing to show it correctly.

I know little about this but I wonder whether code pages have anything to
do
with it. Might the code page used in the F&R dialogue differ from the one
used in the body of the document? Or might it even be trying to do some
kind
of conversion of your input? Does it work if you hold Alt and type in the
character code (I don't know what code page you are using so don't know
what
code to use to try it).

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 6:22 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:

Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion around this
issue
hehttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e.developer.co...

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

google groups didn't show it to me, but sent me directly to the middle
of a thread, which I didn't have time to look for the beginning of
yet.

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it depends
what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

Frinstance, I get all my macronned letters with Ctrl+Alt+hyphen,
letter. If I need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for u-macron, I type
C-A-hyphen, u and a u-macron goes into the Replace window; but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, I type C-A-hyphen,
i and nothing at all goes into the Replace window! I have to do it by
typing C-A-hyphen, i in the text, Copy and Paste to the Replace
window, and then it's fine.

(One of the letters that insists on its own font -- sometimes Times
New Roman, sometimes Simsun -- when I type it into the text is a-
macron. But it goes happily into the Replace window, and gets replaced
in the correct font.)

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've
tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one,
but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.-

[grammatim[_2_]]

The first edition of my book (The World's Writing Systems) was done in
FrameMaker 4 for Mac, and it was begun in 1993 when if Unicode existed
it wasn't yet part of desktop publishing. I thus used dozens of fonts
with 255 characters in each; including quite a few roman fonts with
different assortments of diacritics, each assortment appropriate for
dealing with one language family. (If you're typing Germanic or
Western Romance languages, the basic Mac font covers all your needs.
But for Slavic languages you need some extra accents, for Baltic
languages you need some other extra accents, for Semitic languages you
need a different bunch, etc.) So I have lots of chapter files that
have roman fonts with different accents occupying the same cell in the
255-cell table. (Not to mention the fonts of 50-odd different writing
systems.)

With Unicode, the accents on the roman letters are taken care of --
but they have to be replaced font by font (i.e., file by file). i-
macron might be coded in the i-circumflex spot in, say, a font for
Indic studies; but in Semitic studies, we use both circumflex and
macron for different kinds of long vowels, so the macronned vowels
might have been put in the slots of the umlauted vowels. (We tried to
keep accented letters in accented-letter slots so that Word would know
that they were letters when selecting words.)

On Aug 9, 2:45 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Well, earlier, you said ..

but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, ...

So I assumed you were dealing with things from the distant past. What do you
mean by "pre-Unicode"?

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

Well ... my new computer (with return of my old hard drive as a second
internal hard drive) receipt got moved from two days ago to tomorrow
(inshallah), so I can't test anything yet ... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Or, F & R being a phenomenon of the distant past, maybe it uses some
legacy materials ...

On Aug 9, 6:08 am, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
Sorry - this seems to have been ignored. I doubt I'm much help - I wish I
understood these things - but I should at least have the decency to
reply.

F&R is a funny beast with a mind of its own; it doesn't always work as
you
might expect with non-ascii characters but sometimes it does what you
want
without quite managing to show it correctly.

I know little about this but I wonder whether code pages have anything to
do
with it. Might the code page used in the F&R dialogue differ from the one
used in the body of the document? Or might it even be trying to do some
kind
of conversion of your input? Does it work if you hold Alt and type in the
character code (I don't know what code page you are using so don't know
what
code to use to try it).

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 6:22 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:

Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion around this
issue
hehttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e.developer.co...

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

google groups didn't show it to me, but sent me directly to the middle
of a thread, which I didn't have time to look for the beginning of
yet.

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it depends
what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

Frinstance, I get all my macronned letters with Ctrl+Alt+hyphen,
letter. If I need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for u-macron, I type
C-A-hyphen, u and a u-macron goes into the Replace window; but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, I type C-A-hyphen,
i and nothing at all goes into the Replace window! I have to do it by
typing C-A-hyphen, i in the text, Copy and Paste to the Replace
window, and then it's fine.

(One of the letters that insists on its own font -- sometimes Times
New Roman, sometimes Simsun -- when I type it into the text is a-
macron. But it goes happily into the Replace window, and gets replaced
in the correct font.)

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've
tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one,
but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.-

[Tony Jollans]

So each code point (from 128 to 255 at least) had many different glyphs
organised in special fonts in order to be able to display more characters
than the system could actually cope with. I don't think F&R could cope with
that, because it would not normally be font-specific unless explicitly told.

I presume your shortcut keys entered characters in the document with the
appropriate font, whereas the box in the dialogue uses its own font
(Tahoma?) for display. If the code point assigned to i-macron, for example,
used another glyph in that font, that is what I would expect to see in the
text box.

Assuming I have understood correctly, I would need to experiment to say much
more, but if you are doing lots of these I would have thought a macro a
better way than using the F&R dialogue.

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
The first edition of my book (The World's Writing Systems) was done in
FrameMaker 4 for Mac, and it was begun in 1993 when if Unicode existed
it wasn't yet part of desktop publishing. I thus used dozens of fonts
with 255 characters in each; including quite a few roman fonts with
different assortments of diacritics, each assortment appropriate for
dealing with one language family. (If you're typing Germanic or
Western Romance languages, the basic Mac font covers all your needs.
But for Slavic languages you need some extra accents, for Baltic
languages you need some other extra accents, for Semitic languages you
need a different bunch, etc.) So I have lots of chapter files that
have roman fonts with different accents occupying the same cell in the
255-cell table. (Not to mention the fonts of 50-odd different writing
systems.)

With Unicode, the accents on the roman letters are taken care of --
but they have to be replaced font by font (i.e., file by file). i-
macron might be coded in the i-circumflex spot in, say, a font for
Indic studies; but in Semitic studies, we use both circumflex and
macron for different kinds of long vowels, so the macronned vowels
might have been put in the slots of the umlauted vowels. (We tried to
keep accented letters in accented-letter slots so that Word would know
that they were letters when selecting words.)

On Aug 9, 2:45 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Well, earlier, you said ..

but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, ...

So I assumed you were dealing with things from the distant past. What do
you
mean by "pre-Unicode"?

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

Well ... my new computer (with return of my old hard drive as a second
internal hard drive) receipt got moved from two days ago to tomorrow
(inshallah), so I can't test anything yet ... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Or, F & R being a phenomenon of the distant past, maybe it uses some
legacy materials ...

On Aug 9, 6:08 am, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
Sorry - this seems to have been ignored. I doubt I'm much help - I
wish I
understood these things - but I should at least have the decency to
reply.

F&R is a funny beast with a mind of its own; it doesn't always work as
you
might expect with non-ascii characters but sometimes it does what you
want
without quite managing to show it correctly.

I know little about this but I wonder whether code pages have anything
to
do
with it. Might the code page used in the F&R dialogue differ from the
one
used in the body of the document? Or might it even be trying to do
some
kind
of conversion of your input? Does it work if you hold Alt and type in
the
character code (I don't know what code page you are using so don't
know
what
code to use to try it).

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 6:22 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:

Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion around
this
issue
hehttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e.developer.co...

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

google groups didn't show it to me, but sent me directly to the middle
of a thread, which I didn't have time to look for the beginning of
yet.

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it
depends
what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

Frinstance, I get all my macronned letters with Ctrl+Alt+hyphen,
letter. If I need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for u-macron, I type
C-A-hyphen, u and a u-macron goes into the Replace window; but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, I type C-A-hyphen,
i and nothing at all goes into the Replace window! I have to do it by
typing C-A-hyphen, i in the text, Copy and Paste to the Replace
window, and then it's fine.

(One of the letters that insists on its own font -- sometimes Times
New Roman, sometimes Simsun -- when I type it into the text is a-
macron. But it goes happily into the Replace window, and gets replaced
in the correct font.)

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in
the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma
or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've
tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but
the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does
any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one,
but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.-

[grammatim[_2_]]

I'm not using F & R to insert characters in the old font. I'm using it
in new Word files (made by Save As out of FrameMaker) to search for
whatever the characters appear as in my new default font (Gentium,
because it has the most accented letters) and replace them with the
characters they're supposed to be (in Gentium). Mch of the time, it
works fine, but sometimes it deposits the correct character in its own
choice of font -- usually Tahoma, but occasionally Simsun, which I
think is a Korean font.

Much of the time I can type my replacement character into the Replace
window using my keyboard shortcut, but sometimes I can't; nothing at
all appears in the window, and I have to Type/Copy/Paste into the
window.

And there's no correlation between the characters with the font
problem and the characters with the typing problem.

I don't do macros, but even if I did, there would have to be a
different one for each original font, and each one might only be used
once or twice.

On Aug 9, 6:16 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
So each code point (from 128 to 255 at least) had many different glyphs
organised in special fonts in order to be able to display more characters
than the system could actually cope with. I don't think F&R could cope with
that, because it would not normally be font-specific unless explicitly told.

I presume your shortcut keys entered characters in the document with the
appropriate font, whereas the box in the dialogue uses its own font
(Tahoma?) for display. If the code point assigned to i-macron, for example,
used another glyph in that font, that is what I would expect to see in the
text box.

Assuming I have understood correctly, I would need to experiment to say much
more, but if you are doing lots of these I would have thought a macro a
better way than using the F&R dialogue.

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

The first edition of my book (The World's Writing Systems) was done in
FrameMaker 4 for Mac, and it was begun in 1993 when if Unicode existed
it wasn't yet part of desktop publishing. I thus used dozens of fonts
with 255 characters in each; including quite a few roman fonts with
different assortments of diacritics, each assortment appropriate for
dealing with one language family. (If you're typing Germanic or
Western Romance languages, the basic Mac font covers all your needs.
But for Slavic languages you need some extra accents, for Baltic
languages you need some other extra accents, for Semitic languages you
need a different bunch, etc.) So I have lots of chapter files that
have roman fonts with different accents occupying the same cell in the
255-cell table. (Not to mention the fonts of 50-odd different writing
systems.)

With Unicode, the accents on the roman letters are taken care of --
but they have to be replaced font by font (i.e., file by file). i-
macron might be coded in the i-circumflex spot in, say, a font for
Indic studies; but in Semitic studies, we use both circumflex and
macron for different kinds of long vowels, so the macronned vowels
might have been put in the slots of the umlauted vowels. (We tried to
keep accented letters in accented-letter slots so that Word would know
that they were letters when selecting words.)

On Aug 9, 2:45 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Well, earlier, you said ..

but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, ...

So I assumed you were dealing with things from the distant past. What do
you
mean by "pre-Unicode"?

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

Well ... my new computer (with return of my old hard drive as a second
internal hard drive) receipt got moved from two days ago to tomorrow
(inshallah), so I can't test anything yet ... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Or, F & R being a phenomenon of the distant past, maybe it uses some
legacy materials ...

On Aug 9, 6:08 am, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
Sorry - this seems to have been ignored. I doubt I'm much help - I
wish I
understood these things - but I should at least have the decency to
reply.

F&R is a funny beast with a mind of its own; it doesn't always work as
you
might expect with non-ascii characters but sometimes it does what you
want
without quite managing to show it correctly.

I know little about this but I wonder whether code pages have anything
to
do
with it. Might the code page used in the F&R dialogue differ from the
one
used in the body of the document? Or might it even be trying to do
some
kind
of conversion of your input? Does it work if you hold Alt and type in
the
character code (I don't know what code page you are using so don't
know
what
code to use to try it).

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 6:22 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:

Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion around
this
issue
hehttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e.developer.co...

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

google groups didn't show it to me, but sent me directly to the middle
of a thread, which I didn't have time to look for the beginning of
yet.

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it
depends
what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

Frinstance, I get all my macronned letters with Ctrl+Alt+hyphen,
letter. If I need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for u-macron, I type
C-A-hyphen, u and a u-macron goes into the Replace window; but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, I type C-A-hyphen,
i and nothing at all goes into the Replace window! I have to do it by
typing C-A-hyphen, i in the text, Copy and Paste to the Replace
window, and then it's fine.

(One of the letters that insists on its own font -- sometimes Times
New Roman, sometimes Simsun -- when I type it into the text is a-
macron. But it goes happily into the Replace window, and gets replaced
in the correct font.)

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even in
the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in Tahoma
or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using; I've
tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word, but
the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*, does
any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation one,
but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.-

[Tony Jollans]

I'm not sure I really understand what you're dealing with. I don't know
FrameMaker at all or what it may do when creating a word document, and I
don't know what Word may do with the result.

However, I installed Gentium and set up Ctrl+Alt+-, A and Ctrl+Alt+-,I as
a-macron and i-macron and they both entered correctly (as unicode) in a
document and in the Replace in F&R (using Word 2007 on Vista) so I'm not
sure what may be causing your problem.

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
I'm not using F & R to insert characters in the old font. I'm using it
in new Word files (made by Save As out of FrameMaker) to search for
whatever the characters appear as in my new default font (Gentium,
because it has the most accented letters) and replace them with the
characters they're supposed to be (in Gentium). Mch of the time, it
works fine, but sometimes it deposits the correct character in its own
choice of font -- usually Tahoma, but occasionally Simsun, which I
think is a Korean font.

Much of the time I can type my replacement character into the Replace
window using my keyboard shortcut, but sometimes I can't; nothing at
all appears in the window, and I have to Type/Copy/Paste into the
window.

And there's no correlation between the characters with the font
problem and the characters with the typing problem.

I don't do macros, but even if I did, there would have to be a
different one for each original font, and each one might only be used
once or twice.

On Aug 9, 6:16 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
So each code point (from 128 to 255 at least) had many different glyphs
organised in special fonts in order to be able to display more characters
than the system could actually cope with. I don't think F&R could cope
with
that, because it would not normally be font-specific unless explicitly
told.

I presume your shortcut keys entered characters in the document with the
appropriate font, whereas the box in the dialogue uses its own font
(Tahoma?) for display. If the code point assigned to i-macron, for
example,
used another glyph in that font, that is what I would expect to see in
the
text box.

Assuming I have understood correctly, I would need to experiment to say
much
more, but if you are doing lots of these I would have thought a macro a
better way than using the F&R dialogue.

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

The first edition of my book (The World's Writing Systems) was done in
FrameMaker 4 for Mac, and it was begun in 1993 when if Unicode existed
it wasn't yet part of desktop publishing. I thus used dozens of fonts
with 255 characters in each; including quite a few roman fonts with
different assortments of diacritics, each assortment appropriate for
dealing with one language family. (If you're typing Germanic or
Western Romance languages, the basic Mac font covers all your needs.
But for Slavic languages you need some extra accents, for Baltic
languages you need some other extra accents, for Semitic languages you
need a different bunch, etc.) So I have lots of chapter files that
have roman fonts with different accents occupying the same cell in the
255-cell table. (Not to mention the fonts of 50-odd different writing
systems.)

With Unicode, the accents on the roman letters are taken care of --
but they have to be replaced font by font (i.e., file by file). i-
macron might be coded in the i-circumflex spot in, say, a font for
Indic studies; but in Semitic studies, we use both circumflex and
macron for different kinds of long vowels, so the macronned vowels
might have been put in the slots of the umlauted vowels. (We tried to
keep accented letters in accented-letter slots so that Word would know
that they were letters when selecting words.)

On Aug 9, 2:45 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot com
wrote:
... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages
were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Well, earlier, you said ..

but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, ...

So I assumed you were dealing with things from the distant past. What
do
you
mean by "pre-Unicode"?

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

Well ... my new computer (with return of my old hard drive as a
second
internal hard drive) receipt got moved from two days ago to tomorrow
(inshallah), so I can't test anything yet ... but if I'm in Unicode,
are any other code pages/encodings involved? I thought code pages
were
a phenomenon of the distant past.

Or, F & R being a phenomenon of the distant past, maybe it uses some
legacy materials ...

On Aug 9, 6:08 am, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot
com
wrote:
Sorry - this seems to have been ignored. I doubt I'm much help - I
wish I
understood these things - but I should at least have the decency to
reply.

F&R is a funny beast with a mind of its own; it doesn't always work
as
you
might expect with non-ascii characters but sometimes it does what
you
want
without quite managing to show it correctly.

I know little about this but I wonder whether code pages have
anything
to
do
with it. Might the code page used in the F&R dialogue differ from
the
one
used in the body of the document? Or might it even be trying to do
some
kind
of conversion of your input? Does it work if you hold Alt and type
in
the
character code (I don't know what code page you are using so don't
know
what
code to use to try it).

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...
On Jul 5, 6:22 pm, "Tony Jollans" My forename at my surname dot
com
wrote:

Word's choice of font is 'secret'. There is some discussion
around
this
issue
hehttp://groups.google.co.uk/group/mic...e.developer.co...

(I'm not sure what the newsreader will do with that long url)

google groups didn't show it to me, but sent me directly to the
middle
of a thread, which I didn't have time to look for the beginning of
yet.

I don't know whether any of that relates to your question - it
depends
what
the characters are.

As far as working or not in F&R - can you give an example?

Frinstance, I get all my macronned letters with Ctrl+Alt+hyphen,
letter. If I need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for u-macron, I
type
C-A-hyphen, u and a u-macron goes into the Replace window; but if I
need to replace a pre-Unicode coding for i-macron, I type
C-A-hyphen,
i and nothing at all goes into the Replace window! I have to do it
by
typing C-A-hyphen, i in the text, Copy and Paste to the Replace
window, and then it's fine.

(One of the letters that insists on its own font -- sometimes Times
New Roman, sometimes Simsun -- when I type it into the text is a-
macron. But it goes happily into the Replace window, and gets
replaced
in the correct font.)

--
Enjoy,
Tony

"grammatim" wrote in message

...

I've made lots and lots of custom key commands for letters with
diacritics, and almost all of them work throughout Word, even
in
the
Find/Replace windows.

However, a few of them insist on inserting their letters in
Tahoma
or
in Arial Unicode instead of in the font I'm actually using;
I've
tried
deleting the custom commands and closing and reopening Word,
but
the
problem persists. What can be done?

Why do a few of them not work in Find/Replace?

Also: Of the many newsgroups under microsoft.public.word.*,
does
any
of them handle font issues? I tried the internationaliszation
one,
but
it has all of 7 members and appears to be moribund.-