[LTJ]

I have 2 Word sessions open on my taskbar.
When I use close document (office button-close) it closes the window
(session). Then it jumps to the last window (program) I use, in this case
Exporer. Then I have to click on the other Word Window on my taskbar and open
at new document. Why doew it close the Word I'm in when I just want to close
the document and open a new one, AND keep the other Word window open with the
document I'm have there.
It seems like Windows registres that I have a Word session running and
because of that closes the Word session I'm in, instead of just closing the
document. How can I STAY in Word and only close the document even when I have
another Word open on my taskbar.
Hope you understand my question.

--
LTJ

[Beth Melton]

I understand it perfectly and I don't think you'll like my answer. ;-) If
you have more than one document open then the Close button in the
upper-right corner will only close the document. If you have only one
document open then the Close button will exit Word.

The solution is to either keep track of what you are doing and if you only
have one document open, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click
Close (yeah, right!) or to add the Close command to your Quick Access
Toolbar (right-click the Close command found when you click the Microsoft
Office Button and then click Add to Quick Access Toolbar) and train yourself
to use it instead of the Close (X) in the upper-right corner.

Another solution is to change your interface to a Multiple Document
Interface (every document displays in one task on the task bar instead of
one task per open document) but most don't like this solution. If you want
to try this, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click Word Options.
Click Advanced and in the Display section, deselect "Show all windows in the
task bar".

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"LTJ" wrote in message
...
I have 2 Word sessions open on my taskbar.
When I use close document (office button-close) it closes the window
(session). Then it jumps to the last window (program) I use, in this case
Exporer. Then I have to click on the other Word Window on my taskbar and
open
at new document. Why doew it close the Word I'm in when I just want to
close
the document and open a new one, AND keep the other Word window open with
the
document I'm have there.
It seems like Windows registres that I have a Word session running and
because of that closes the Word session I'm in, instead of just closing
the
document. How can I STAY in Word and only close the document even when I
have
another Word open on my taskbar.
Hope you understand my question.

--
LTJ

[LTJ]

Thanks, it's works if I use the Multiple Document Interface, not sure I want
it, but it works.
I don't ever use the x on the top right of the window unless I want to close
Word totally, I know that's what it does and that the other x that used to be
there is gone.
Now I always use the Close button on my Quick Access toolbar and it's this
button that closes word and jumps to my latest program, istead of staying in
Word so I can open a new document.
But my experience is that the close document icon on the toolbar works
exactly like the x on the top right hand of the window is this case where I
have more that one document open.
What I want to do is close the document and then open a new one, no matter
the fact that I already have other word documents open in another Word
Windows.
Guess that's just the way 2007 Word works, rather annoying. I don't remember
the old Word working that way, or my memory is not what it use to be.
Thanks.
--
LTJ


"Beth Melton" wrote:

I understand it perfectly and I don't think you'll like my answer. ;-) If
you have more than one document open then the Close button in the
upper-right corner will only close the document. If you have only one
document open then the Close button will exit Word.

The solution is to either keep track of what you are doing and if you only
have one document open, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click
Close (yeah, right!) or to add the Close command to your Quick Access
Toolbar (right-click the Close command found when you click the Microsoft
Office Button and then click Add to Quick Access Toolbar) and train yourself
to use it instead of the Close (X) in the upper-right corner.

Another solution is to change your interface to a Multiple Document
Interface (every document displays in one task on the task bar instead of
one task per open document) but most don't like this solution. If you want
to try this, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click Word Options.
Click Advanced and in the Display section, deselect "Show all windows in the
task bar".

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"LTJ" wrote in message
...
I have 2 Word sessions open on my taskbar.
When I use close document (office button-close) it closes the window
(session). Then it jumps to the last window (program) I use, in this case
Exporer. Then I have to click on the other Word Window on my taskbar and
open
at new document. Why doew it close the Word I'm in when I just want to
close
the document and open a new one, AND keep the other Word window open with
the
document I'm have there.
It seems like Windows registres that I have a Word session running and
because of that closes the Word session I'm in, instead of just closing
the
document. How can I STAY in Word and only close the document even when I
have
another Word open on my taskbar.
Hope you understand my question.

--
LTJ

[Stefan Blom]

Have you tried pressing Ctrl+F4? It seems to close only the document, even
if there is just one document open.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"LTJ" wrote in message
...
Thanks, it's works if I use the Multiple Document Interface, not sure I
want
it, but it works.
I don't ever use the x on the top right of the window unless I want to
close
Word totally, I know that's what it does and that the other x that used to
be
there is gone.
Now I always use the Close button on my Quick Access toolbar and it's this
button that closes word and jumps to my latest program, istead of staying
in
Word so I can open a new document.
But my experience is that the close document icon on the toolbar works
exactly like the x on the top right hand of the window is this case where
I
have more that one document open.
What I want to do is close the document and then open a new one, no matter
the fact that I already have other word documents open in another Word
Windows.
Guess that's just the way 2007 Word works, rather annoying. I don't
remember
the old Word working that way, or my memory is not what it use to be.
Thanks.
--
LTJ


"Beth Melton" wrote:

I understand it perfectly and I don't think you'll like my answer. ;-) If
you have more than one document open then the Close button in the
upper-right corner will only close the document. If you have only one
document open then the Close button will exit Word.

The solution is to either keep track of what you are doing and if you
only
have one document open, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click
Close (yeah, right!) or to add the Close command to your Quick Access
Toolbar (right-click the Close command found when you click the Microsoft
Office Button and then click Add to Quick Access Toolbar) and train
yourself
to use it instead of the Close (X) in the upper-right corner.

Another solution is to change your interface to a Multiple Document
Interface (every document displays in one task on the task bar instead of
one task per open document) but most don't like this solution. If you
want
to try this, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click Word
Options.
Click Advanced and in the Display section, deselect "Show all windows in
the
task bar".

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"LTJ" wrote in message
...
I have 2 Word sessions open on my taskbar.
When I use close document (office button-close) it closes the window
(session). Then it jumps to the last window (program) I use, in this
case
Exporer. Then I have to click on the other Word Window on my taskbar
and
open
at new document. Why doew it close the Word I'm in when I just want to
close
the document and open a new one, AND keep the other Word window open
with
the
document I'm have there.
It seems like Windows registres that I have a Word session running and
because of that closes the Word session I'm in, instead of just closing
the
document. How can I STAY in Word and only close the document even when
I
have
another Word open on my taskbar.
Hope you understand my question.

--
LTJ

[E McElroy[_2_]]

Ctrl+F4 works the same way on my machine as Office Button followed by Close.
As you described, if there is more than one Word window, it closes the
current document and its window. If there is only one Word window, it closes
only the document and waits for further orders. Why was it done this way? I
would guess that the programmer who implemented the Close option of the
Office menu thought he was helping you out. If he had only closed the
document, then getting rid of each additional Word window would require that
the user know about closing the window with the close button in the upper
right of the window. Less sophisticated users will probably be relying on the
Close menu which faces them with a quandary about how to remove the window
itself if they don't plan to use it for another document.

There are obviously many ways to program the Close button. The programmer
picked one that's not unreasonable and may have reflected either some user
test studies or the well-known software engineering practice of flipping a
coin when faced with one of several good alternatives.

Aa for the switching behavior, each Word window is a schedulable thread and
when that window (thread) is closed, Windows displays the next most recently
viewed thread. Sometimes that will be another Word application and sometimes
not - it depends on what window you viewed before going to the Word document
that you closed. This is simply the way Windows works.


"LTJ" wrote:

Thanks, it's works if I use the Multiple Document Interface, not sure I want
it, but it works.
I don't ever use the x on the top right of the window unless I want to close
Word totally, I know that's what it does and that the other x that used to be
there is gone.
Now I always use the Close button on my Quick Access toolbar and it's this
button that closes word and jumps to my latest program, istead of staying in
Word so I can open a new document.
But my experience is that the close document icon on the toolbar works
exactly like the x on the top right hand of the window is this case where I
have more that one document open.
What I want to do is close the document and then open a new one, no matter
the fact that I already have other word documents open in another Word
Windows.
Guess that's just the way 2007 Word works, rather annoying. I don't remember
the old Word working that way, or my memory is not what it use to be.
Thanks.
--
LTJ


"Beth Melton" wrote:

I understand it perfectly and I don't think you'll like my answer. ;-) If
you have more than one document open then the Close button in the
upper-right corner will only close the document. If you have only one
document open then the Close button will exit Word.

The solution is to either keep track of what you are doing and if you only
have one document open, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click
Close (yeah, right!) or to add the Close command to your Quick Access
Toolbar (right-click the Close command found when you click the Microsoft
Office Button and then click Add to Quick Access Toolbar) and train yourself
to use it instead of the Close (X) in the upper-right corner.

Another solution is to change your interface to a Multiple Document
Interface (every document displays in one task on the task bar instead of
one task per open document) but most don't like this solution. If you want
to try this, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click Word Options.
Click Advanced and in the Display section, deselect "Show all windows in the
task bar".

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"LTJ" wrote in message
...
I have 2 Word sessions open on my taskbar.
When I use close document (office button-close) it closes the window
(session). Then it jumps to the last window (program) I use, in this case
Exporer. Then I have to click on the other Word Window on my taskbar and
open
at new document. Why doew it close the Word I'm in when I just want to
close
the document and open a new one, AND keep the other Word window open with
the
document I'm have there.
It seems like Windows registres that I have a Word session running and
because of that closes the Word session I'm in, instead of just closing
the
document. How can I STAY in Word and only close the document even when I
have
another Word open on my taskbar.
Hope you understand my question.

--
LTJ

[Beth Melton]

I understand what you are referring to now. (I guess I didn't understand it
perfectly in my previous reply. grin) I don't think this changed in Word
2007 but rather when they switched from a Multiple Document Interface to a
Single Document Interface. Unfortunately, that's just the way it works.

Now, I'm one who likes the behavior. I'd rather switch to the last window I
had in focus instead of assuming I want to stay in Word. ;-)

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"LTJ" wrote in message
...
Thanks, it's works if I use the Multiple Document Interface, not sure I
want
it, but it works.
I don't ever use the x on the top right of the window unless I want to
close
Word totally, I know that's what it does and that the other x that used to
be
there is gone.
Now I always use the Close button on my Quick Access toolbar and it's this
button that closes word and jumps to my latest program, istead of staying
in
Word so I can open a new document.
But my experience is that the close document icon on the toolbar works
exactly like the x on the top right hand of the window is this case where
I
have more that one document open.
What I want to do is close the document and then open a new one, no matter
the fact that I already have other word documents open in another Word
Windows.
Guess that's just the way 2007 Word works, rather annoying. I don't
remember
the old Word working that way, or my memory is not what it use to be.
Thanks.
--
LTJ


"Beth Melton" wrote:

I understand it perfectly and I don't think you'll like my answer. ;-) If
you have more than one document open then the Close button in the
upper-right corner will only close the document. If you have only one
document open then the Close button will exit Word.

The solution is to either keep track of what you are doing and if you
only
have one document open, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click
Close (yeah, right!) or to add the Close command to your Quick Access
Toolbar (right-click the Close command found when you click the Microsoft
Office Button and then click Add to Quick Access Toolbar) and train
yourself
to use it instead of the Close (X) in the upper-right corner.

Another solution is to change your interface to a Multiple Document
Interface (every document displays in one task on the task bar instead of
one task per open document) but most don't like this solution. If you
want
to try this, click the Microsoft Office Button and then click Word
Options.
Click Advanced and in the Display section, deselect "Show all windows in
the
task bar".

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

"LTJ" wrote in message
...
I have 2 Word sessions open on my taskbar.
When I use close document (office button-close) it closes the window
(session). Then it jumps to the last window (program) I use, in this
case
Exporer. Then I have to click on the other Word Window on my taskbar
and
open
at new document. Why doew it close the Word I'm in when I just want to
close
the document and open a new one, AND keep the other Word window open
with
the
document I'm have there.
It seems like Windows registres that I have a Word session running and
because of that closes the Word session I'm in, instead of just closing
the
document. How can I STAY in Word and only close the document even when
I
have
another Word open on my taskbar.
Hope you understand my question.

--
LTJ

[Beth Melton]

"E McElroy" wrote in message
...
Ctrl+F4 works the same way on my machine as Office Button followed by
Close.
As you described, if there is more than one Word window, it closes the
current document and its window. If there is only one Word window, it
closes
only the document and waits for further orders. Why was it done this way?
I
would guess that the programmer who implemented the Close option of the
Office menu thought he was helping you out.

Perhaps, but Word has always worked this way. If you use the Close command
then it only closes the document, even if it's the last document open. I
know many would be frustrated if they closed the last document and Word shut
down too. I know this because of the complaints about how the Close (x in
the upper right corner) button currently functions. Once you click the Close
(x) button on the last document then you also exit Word.

If he had only closed the
document, then getting rid of each additional Word window would require
that
the user know about closing the window with the close button in the upper
right of the window. Less sophisticated users will probably be relying on
the
Close menu which faces them with a quandary about how to remove the window
itself if they don't plan to use it for another document.

That's what the Exit Word command is for. ;-) Actually, most programs behave
this way so I'd say most aren't confused by the behavior.

There are obviously many ways to program the Close button. The programmer
picked one that's not unreasonable and may have reflected either some user
test studies or the well-known software engineering practice of flipping a
coin when faced with one of several good alternatives.

Well, the Close command under the Office Button issues the CloseWindow
command and the Close (x) button in the upperr right corner uses another.
This is the same functionality used in some of the previous versions. I
suspect what it boils down to is the difference in how a Single Document
Interface (SDI) and a Multiple Document Interface (MDI) works. Word 97 and
previous versions used a MDI, in which multiple documents shared the same
interface (menus and toolbars) and there were two sets of controls in the
upper right corner. The top set for the application and the lower set for
the document. When they switched to SDI, in Word 2000, each open Word
document had its own menu bar and toolbars (or Ribbon for Word 2007) and
each has its own set of controls in the upper right corner. They all work
independently of each other and are not linked.

An easy way to see this is if you open two Word documents, make sure both
are maximized, and then click the Restore command for one of the documents.
Only the Word document you restored displays in a restored window. The other
remains maximized. You can also set focus to different tabs on the Ribbon in
each document window.

Now, Excel still uses a Multiple Document interface and mimics SDI. You'll
see two close buttons in the upper right corner, one for the workbook and
one for the application. Each open workbook shares the same Ribbon (or menu
bar and toolbars for previous versions). If you try the same example, open
two Excel workbooks and restore the workbook window, you won't see the same
behavior as you did in Word. Both workbooks will be restored. Also note you
cannot set focus to different tabs on the Ribbon in the workbook windows,
the active tab will display in both.

I've developed both SDI and MDI applications and what they used in Word is
indeed the most efficient and most reliable - even if I personally don't
like it the behavior. ;-) (What I still haven't understood is why they
didn't use SDI from the beginning - it's actually easier to program.
Although that could depended on the programming language...)

Aa for the switching behavior, each Word window is a schedulable thread
and
when that window (thread) is closed, Windows displays the next most
recently
viewed thread. Sometimes that will be another Word application and
sometimes
not - it depends on what window you viewed before going to the Word
document
that you closed. This is simply the way Windows works.

I see that you understood the question better than I did initally. :-)

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[E McElroy[_2_]]

Thanks for the reply. I fear you may have misunderstood the purpose of my
answer which was simply to try to explain why a development team takes some
actions and not others, and not to elicit a dissertation on the details of
closing windows since I suspect most people aren't preoccupied with the topic.

I didn't mean to suggest that people were confused by the close button but
only to indicate that good interface designers try to reduce the number of
decisions the user must make, especially in programs used primarily by
non-technical people. Reducing the number of forks in the road accounts for a
great many design decisions.

I enjoyed your review and interpretation of how SDI and MDI influenced
Word's design. I've been familiar with the details of SDI and MDI since the
days when the Windows API was very small, Petzold's "Programming Windows"
book was under 1,000 pages, and nobody ever heard of C++. Why SDI wasn't used
at the beginning is likely explained by the small memory capacity and limited
horsepower of those days. Word, remember, dates from the later 80s and so do
SDI and MDI interfaces. SDI interfaces back then required their own separate
process - there were no intra-process threads in early Windows. The processes
for an SDI interface require more memory since the operating system data
structures needed by a process must be allocated for each document, and there
may also be some duplication of non-os variables (although not of the code
itself because of the way the code mapping works). Additionally, a process
switch from one document to another requires a fair amount of CPU cycles, a
drain which is inconsequential with today's CPUs but very significant way
back then.

The thread switching algorithms can be much more complicated than what I've
described but for the typical desktop user of Word, the description I gave
should be accurate most of the time.

I suspect that most users who have waded through your response and now mine
are beginning to doze off so I think it's time I gave them a break and let
them get back to doing real work....

E McElroy


"Beth Melton" wrote:

"E McElroy" wrote in message
...
Ctrl+F4 works the same way on my machine as Office Button followed by
Close.
As you described, if there is more than one Word window, it closes the
current document and its window. If there is only one Word window, it
closes
only the document and waits for further orders. Why was it done this way?
I
would guess that the programmer who implemented the Close option of the
Office menu thought he was helping you out.

Perhaps, but Word has always worked this way. If you use the Close command
then it only closes the document, even if it's the last document open. I
know many would be frustrated if they closed the last document and Word shut
down too. I know this because of the complaints about how the Close (x in
the upper right corner) button currently functions. Once you click the Close
(x) button on the last document then you also exit Word.

If he had only closed the
document, then getting rid of each additional Word window would require
that
the user know about closing the window with the close button in the upper
right of the window. Less sophisticated users will probably be relying on
the
Close menu which faces them with a quandary about how to remove the window
itself if they don't plan to use it for another document.

That's what the Exit Word command is for. ;-) Actually, most programs behave
this way so I'd say most aren't confused by the behavior.

There are obviously many ways to program the Close button. The programmer
picked one that's not unreasonable and may have reflected either some user
test studies or the well-known software engineering practice of flipping a
coin when faced with one of several good alternatives.

Well, the Close command under the Office Button issues the CloseWindow
command and the Close (x) button in the upperr right corner uses another.
This is the same functionality used in some of the previous versions. I
suspect what it boils down to is the difference in how a Single Document
Interface (SDI) and a Multiple Document Interface (MDI) works. Word 97 and
previous versions used a MDI, in which multiple documents shared the same
interface (menus and toolbars) and there were two sets of controls in the
upper right corner. The top set for the application and the lower set for
the document. When they switched to SDI, in Word 2000, each open Word
document had its own menu bar and toolbars (or Ribbon for Word 2007) and
each has its own set of controls in the upper right corner. They all work
independently of each other and are not linked.

An easy way to see this is if you open two Word documents, make sure both
are maximized, and then click the Restore command for one of the documents.
Only the Word document you restored displays in a restored window. The other
remains maximized. You can also set focus to different tabs on the Ribbon in
each document window.

Now, Excel still uses a Multiple Document interface and mimics SDI. You'll
see two close buttons in the upper right corner, one for the workbook and
one for the application. Each open workbook shares the same Ribbon (or menu
bar and toolbars for previous versions). If you try the same example, open
two Excel workbooks and restore the workbook window, you won't see the same
behavior as you did in Word. Both workbooks will be restored. Also note you
cannot set focus to different tabs on the Ribbon in the workbook windows,
the active tab will display in both.

I've developed both SDI and MDI applications and what they used in Word is
indeed the most efficient and most reliable - even if I personally don't
like it the behavior. ;-) (What I still haven't understood is why they
didn't use SDI from the beginning - it's actually easier to program.
Although that could depended on the programming language...)

Aa for the switching behavior, each Word window is a schedulable thread
and
when that window (thread) is closed, Windows displays the next most
recently
viewed thread. Sometimes that will be another Word application and
sometimes
not - it depends on what window you viewed before going to the Word
document
that you closed. This is simply the way Windows works.

I see that you understood the question better than I did initally. :-)

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[Beth Melton]

"E McElroy" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the reply. I fear you may have misunderstood the purpose of my
answer which was simply to try to explain why a development team takes
some
actions and not others, and not to elicit a dissertation on the details of
closing windows since I suspect most people aren't preoccupied with the
topic.

I didn't mean to suggest that people were confused by the close button but
only to indicate that good interface designers try to reduce the number of
decisions the user must make, especially in programs used primarily by
non-technical people. Reducing the number of forks in the road accounts
for a
great many design decisions.

I did understand what you were after. :-) Believe it or not, these days
there is a bit of preoccupation on how the Close (x) button functions in
Office 2007. Most do not like the behavior and are confused by why Word and
PPT do one thing but Excel does another and chalk it up to another Microsoft
inconsistency. I thought your response was a good vehicle to try and clarify
"why" it works the way it does for those who may be following this thread
and that Microsoft didn't simply toss a coin. ;-)

Here's a quick Google Groups search on this topic (granted not all threads
are related to this issue but it should give you an idea of how many times
this comes up and the frustration that goes with it):
http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...2+close+button

I enjoyed your review and interpretation of how SDI and MDI influenced
Word's design. I've been familiar with the details of SDI and MDI since
the
days when the Windows API was very small, Petzold's "Programming Windows"
book was under 1,000 pages, and nobody ever heard of C++. Why SDI wasn't
used
at the beginning is likely explained by the small memory capacity and
limited
horsepower of those days. Word, remember, dates from the later 80s and so
do
SDI and MDI interfaces. SDI interfaces back then required their own
separate
process - there were no intra-process threads in early Windows. The
processes
for an SDI interface require more memory since the operating system data
structures needed by a process must be allocated for each document, and
there
may also be some duplication of non-os variables (although not of the code
itself because of the way the code mapping works). Additionally, a process
switch from one document to another requires a fair amount of CPU cycles,
a
drain which is inconsequential with today's CPUs but very significant way
back then.

That makes perfect sense! It's a great explanation for why they didn't use
SDI to begin with. I never considered this aspect. Thanks for the
enlightenment. :-)

The thread switching algorithms can be much more complicated than what
I've
described but for the typical desktop user of Word, the description I gave
should be accurate most of the time.

I think most things are more complex and detailed explanations can only be
understood by developers. I thought your example was great and easy to
understand.

I suspect that most users who have waded through your response and now
mine
are beginning to doze off so I think it's time I gave them a break and let
them get back to doing real work....

Good call. LOL

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[E McElroy[_2_]]

For software that generates the kind of revenue that Word does, I'm quite
certain that interface specialists have given a good deal of thought to the
interface both on this and on previous versions. That doesn't mean they were
never perplexed about which way to proceed nor does it mean that final
decisions were always made by having mathematical logicians analyze the
arguments pro and con. That would be quite naive in my experience.

Having worked in the past on major software development projects with huge
development staffs and a brain trust of dozens (literally) of computer
science PHDs, and having worked with engineers who graduated from MIT when
they were teenagers, I can assure you that the software engineering
equivalent of a coin toss is used far more frequently than you could imagine,
but never, of course, when there are clear-cut arguments in favor of one
course of action over another. The simple fact of life is that in software,
there are many decisions that have to be made where the arguments are
inconclusive.

I really do have a hard-time believing that a lot of people are seriously
agitated over closing document windows. Perhaps you and I move in different
circles....

E McElroy

"Beth Melton" wrote:

"E McElroy" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the reply. I fear you may have misunderstood the purpose of my
answer which was simply to try to explain why a development team takes
some
actions and not others, and not to elicit a dissertation on the details of
closing windows since I suspect most people aren't preoccupied with the
topic.

I didn't mean to suggest that people were confused by the close button but
only to indicate that good interface designers try to reduce the number of
decisions the user must make, especially in programs used primarily by
non-technical people. Reducing the number of forks in the road accounts
for a
great many design decisions.

I did understand what you were after. :-) Believe it or not, these days
there is a bit of preoccupation on how the Close (x) button functions in
Office 2007. Most do not like the behavior and are confused by why Word and
PPT do one thing but Excel does another and chalk it up to another Microsoft
inconsistency. I thought your response was a good vehicle to try and clarify
"why" it works the way it does for those who may be following this thread
and that Microsoft didn't simply toss a coin. ;-)

Here's a quick Google Groups search on this topic (granted not all threads
are related to this issue but it should give you an idea of how many times
this comes up and the frustration that goes with it):
http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...2+close+button

I enjoyed your review and interpretation of how SDI and MDI influenced
Word's design. I've been familiar with the details of SDI and MDI since
the
days when the Windows API was very small, Petzold's "Programming Windows"
book was under 1,000 pages, and nobody ever heard of C++. Why SDI wasn't
used
at the beginning is likely explained by the small memory capacity and
limited
horsepower of those days. Word, remember, dates from the later 80s and so
do
SDI and MDI interfaces. SDI interfaces back then required their own
separate
process - there were no intra-process threads in early Windows. The
processes
for an SDI interface require more memory since the operating system data
structures needed by a process must be allocated for each document, and
there
may also be some duplication of non-os variables (although not of the code
itself because of the way the code mapping works). Additionally, a process
switch from one document to another requires a fair amount of CPU cycles,
a
drain which is inconsequential with today's CPUs but very significant way
back then.

That makes perfect sense! It's a great explanation for why they didn't use
SDI to begin with. I never considered this aspect. Thanks for the
enlightenment. :-)

The thread switching algorithms can be much more complicated than what
I've
described but for the typical desktop user of Word, the description I gave
should be accurate most of the time.

I think most things are more complex and detailed explanations can only be
understood by developers. I thought your example was great and easy to
understand.

I suspect that most users who have waded through your response and now
mine
are beginning to doze off so I think it's time I gave them a break and let
them get back to doing real work....

Good call. LOL

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[Beth Melton]

"E McElroy" wrote in message
...
I really do have a hard-time believing that a lot of people are seriously
agitated over closing document windows. Perhaps you and I move in
different
circles....

I only see it in the newsgroup circle. Stick around and you'll see it too.
Or take a look at the link I provided with previous posts about the Close
button.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

[uncle pete]

Small user packages containing Word 2007 and Excel have exactly the same
looking task bar and ribbon. I find it much easier to use than the old
versions but I do find it frustrating to keep closing the word programme by
mistake when i am just closing a document. The Excel programme STILL has the
close window button where it used to be. Word 2007 takes time to boot up
which is why I tend to leave it running when doing 'paperwork', closing it by
mistake is easily done especially after 'years' of conditioning.

"Beth Melton" wrote:

"E McElroy" wrote in message
...
I really do have a hard-time believing that a lot of people are seriously
agitated over closing document windows. Perhaps you and I move in
different
circles....

I only see it in the newsgroup circle. Stick around and you'll see it too.
Or take a look at the link I provided with previous posts about the Close
button.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/boo...x#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/