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Okay. I understand the outline level / styles thing now.
Yes, I was getting a new heading in Outline view when pressing enter
with only headings displayed. I guess I was misunderstanding whatever
you meant by the "so what you get is not a heading" statement. So all
is okay.
Thanks

On Feb 16, 2:18 pm, "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:
If you look at Format | Paragraph for any given paragraph, you'll see the
outline level, which will be either Body Text or Level 1, Level 2, etc. Any
style can be chosen to include in the TOC (using the TOC Options dialog),
but any paragraph/style with an outline level other than Body Text will be
included automatically.

Users who are creating outlines are often using just the heading styles (in
order to get the outline numbering). Certainly the body text that goes below
the headings should not be a heading style (should be Normal or Body Text),
but you were talking about creating your outline to start with. I believe,
actually, that when you are in outline view with only headings displayed,
pressing Enter after a heading does give you a new heading (rather than a
body text paragraph).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

wrote in message

...

The link in 2. is very helpful. I don't understand how Normal as
the "Style for following paragraph" will not give a heading. I looked
at my test document, which is set that way (default), and the headings
are headings - both the number and the few words that describe the
heading - (as indicated by the Style drop-down, and the fact that the
font is different), and the text below the heading is normal. I don't
want the text below a heading to be a heading style. It's the way I
want it, and how I would expect it to be, so I don't get what you are
saying.
I did an Insert-Index&Tables-Table of Contents on my test
document, and it created the TOC okay, and did not include the
document text that is after the headings. So again, I don't see what
you are saying.
The numbering link you gave says "Since there are good reasons for
using Word's built-in Heading styles, this page concentrates on using
those Heading styles." - so I'll stick with that. I went to Format-
Style after reading 3 (below), to see what you mean by 'any style
with an outline level.' I can't immediately tell which of those have
an 'outline level.' Can those other styles (w/outline level) also be
used to make a TOC? Anyway, as it is I can modify heading styles to
look like I want, I can make a TOC easily from heading styles when I'm
done, those heading styles work in outline view to do what I want, and
the numbering suggestion link recommends using them. (I will be
changing settings for numbering as recommended there.)

On Feb 16, 12:46 am, "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:
A few things you should know in addition to this:

1. If you use heading styles for an outline, then you should be aware
that
Normal is set as the "Style for following paragraph" of all headings
styles,
so what you get is not a heading.

2. Numbering will restart after a higher level if you have outline
numbering
set up as described
athttp://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

3. You don't have to use heading styles for your outlines; any style with
an
outline level can be used in Outline view; if you do use heading styles,
you'll probably want to modify their formatting (and change the "Style
for
following paragraph").

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

wrote in message

....

Well, I was skeptical at this point as nothing workable had been
suggested. I read that Outline view link, and tried it out. I can
"shrink" the whole document to just the headings (like a TOC) by going
to that view. Automatic numbering when adding headings works in that
view (you have to manually change the number to 1 after 'promoting' a
heading to a subheading as it continues the previous numbering, AND
add text after the number, to get a new number below it when you press
enter, but that's minor -- because of this at first it appeared it
wouldn't work - with normal auto-numbering you can just keep pressing
enter and get a new line with the next number, w/o having to type
some text after the number). Then you can expand it back out (view
all, or change back to normal view), and your are on the page that has
the heading the cursor was on, with all the document text below it.
(So you can move around a large document quickly.)
So it appears this will work for me. (And when I'm all done I'll
make a TOC from the headings...)
Thanks.

On Feb 15, 4:54 pm, "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:
A TOC is not intended to be a working outline of a document; it is
meant
to
be a guide to where things are in the document (like the TOC in a
book).
By
default, page numbers in a TOC (and in some Word versions the entire
TOC
entry) are linked to the content in the document. Because the TOC is a
single field, it cannot be changed in the way you describe. This is
just
a
backwards way of thinking about it. Perhaps what would work better for
you
is to work in Outline view
(seehttp://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/UsingOLView.htm), or you
could
use the
Document Map to show you a working outline of the document, from which
you
can easily jump to any part of that document to add a new
heading/section.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USAhttp://word.mvps.org

wrote in message

...

(For people reading this, my last reply was bottom-posted (below),
but
the current reply to that was top-posted, so I'm top-posting here..)

You seem to be saying the TOC can be updated to match a changed
document (and I can rely on the automatic renumbering in the main
document when I add something in the middle). I wanted to use the
TOC
as an evolving outline, so that stuff is concisely together so I can
see it, and change it there.
You seem to be saying I could go through dozen of pages to where a
new entry goes, add it there, and then go back to the TOC and press
F9. I want to do the opposite. I want to add it in the TOC, and
have
the entry created in the middle of the existing document. I may want
to add several things like that at once, and go back and do the
actual
writing later. If I have to go through pages and pages to add each
entry, that is a DISTRACTION TO THINKING. I can type much, much
faster than I can write by hand.
From my original post: "I also need the TOC to point to more than
the page number - I want the TOC number repeated where the actual
document text is:"
I had read of "linking," and I hoped it would do that.
It is not going to be helpful to me to have a TOC that can only
be
created/udpated when the document is DONE (or a change is ALREADY
made), that's why I said "Again, I'm not interested in making
something pretty when I'm done with it" at the beginning of my last
post."
Maybe the problem is I'm having a hard time getting across what I
need. If MS Word won't do it, I need something else for this
particular project (which I've been putting off...). That's what I
want to know. You can't use a wrench as a screw driver, or "you
need
the right tool for the job."
I used to write software, and it would be fairly easy to write.
I
could then take the finished result (the manuscript) and import it
into MS Word to get the fonts I want and make it pretty. I may very
well end up doing just that, if I can't find software that does
BASIC
OUTLINING. I don't care about pretty when I'm working on it. I need
headings, tabs, and any readable font. When comparing the time is
would take to write the software, vs. the time manually updating a
TOC
and then the main document, I think the benefit of being able to
work
with free flowing ideas in a concise TOC would outweigh the fact
that
writing that software would take longer than doing manually updating
(which actually would only be true IF if already knew the whole
format
in advance, which I don't, and which I need the free flow of ideas
to
develop).
I thought my original question was simple. This reply is a bit
lengthy, but apparently I haven't said what I need effectively. I'm
bothering with this in case there IS a way to get MS Word to do
this,
or something similar, because nobody here has said "NO," but rather
seem to misunderstand what I need to do, or I'm misunderstanding and
you are actually describing a way to do it.
I do appreciate your time replying.

On Feb 15, 12:37 am, "Suzanne S. Barnhill"
wrote:
If the TOC is based on your numbered headings (or other styles),
then
all
you have to do is press F9 in the TOC field to update it whenever
you
add
new numbered headings/paragraphs. It does not update automatically,
but
neither do you have to "renumber" anything; you just update the
field.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill

...

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