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Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
tinaa
 
Posts: n/a
Default page number positioning and format

I'm having some issues with page number I'm hoping someone can help me with.

Using the insert page number, I've put page numbers at the button, centre of
the page including chapter numbers based on heading1, which is numbered A,
B, C... so I get page numbers that look like "A-12" or "C-47". The page
setup has footer margin set to 0.5". At first the page numbers were not
quite centred on the page. After some experimenting I found that the page
number style had inherited the Normal style's attributes of a first line
indent of 0.5" and double spacing so that the frame that holds the page
number in the footer has an extra 0.5" of blank space to the left of the
page number and an extra line's height of blank space below it. Changing the
text's paragraph formatting to single space, no first line indent causes the
frame to collapse to the correct size just large enough to hold the text and
properly centred.

However, when I printed to the file to an PDF and measured the distance from
the page number to the bottom of the page, it was 0.7" rather than 0.5".
This is problematic since the final PDF file will incorporate pages created
in different applications, and I don't want the page numbers jumping around
as you flip through the pages. So I need to be able to control exactly where
the page number will be.

What's really strange, though, is I have another document that has the exact
same margin settings and also a bottom, centred page number. I've checked in
the case of that document the frame size matches the text size for the page
number. However, when it prints the page numbers are 0.5" from the bottom of
the page. Well, around 0.52", actually, but I'm guessing the bottom of the
text is 0.5", whereas the baseline is slightly higher.

If I put the 2 documents at the same zoom level side by side for comparison,
I can see that the one I'm having problems with really does place the page
number higher. Also, when I view the footers, I can see that the footer
frame (the dashed line) is taller for the document with the improper
positioning. Changing the footer margin does change the size of the footer
frame and the position of the page number, but unlike the first document,
the position doesn't match the number entered for the footer margin.

I just don't understand what's going on here...

I've read some suggestions that you just shouldn't use the insert page
number option and instead just use a page number field in the footer
directly. However, I couldn't find the include chapter number option when
inserting a page field. How is this done?

Also, the last part of the document is a list of references. I've used the
header1 style for the title but removed the chapter number. The page numbers
inherited the chapter number (letter) from the previous section. How can I
advance it so it goes to the next letter, or even better, to an arbitrary
letter (like "R-")? I'm also undecided if the number should continue between
chapter letters (i.e. A-24, B-25) which is what it's doing or reset at the
start of each chapter (i.e. A-24, B-1). If I wanted to do the latter, what
would I have to do? Note that I need the displayed page number to match
what's in the table of contents and table of figures...

Thanks for your help!


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Suzanne S. Barnhill
 
Posts: n/a
Default page number positioning and format

As you have been advised, using Insert Page Number directly in the footer is
more satisfactory in many ways, one of which is being able to more easily
change the page number format between sections. To format the page number
(including adding the chapter number), click on the Format Page Number
button on the Header and Footer toolbar. For your list of references, use a
different heading style; it can look just like Heading 1 but should not be
based on it. Then, in that section, omit the chapter number from your page
number. You can add R- to the page number manually if you like, but note
that it will not be picked up by the TOC.

Something you might try if you want to include the chapter number and have
it picked up by the TOC: use a different heading style, but instead of
omitting numbering, use ABC numbering as before, but set it to start at R.
Omit any punctuation from the numbering and set "Follow number with" to
"Nothing." Then click on Font... and format the paragraph number as Hidden.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"tinaa" wrote in message
...
I'm having some issues with page number I'm hoping someone can help me

with.

Using the insert page number, I've put page numbers at the button, centre

of
the page including chapter numbers based on heading1, which is numbered A,
B, C... so I get page numbers that look like "A-12" or "C-47". The page
setup has footer margin set to 0.5". At first the page numbers were not
quite centred on the page. After some experimenting I found that the page
number style had inherited the Normal style's attributes of a first line
indent of 0.5" and double spacing so that the frame that holds the page
number in the footer has an extra 0.5" of blank space to the left of the
page number and an extra line's height of blank space below it. Changing

the
text's paragraph formatting to single space, no first line indent causes

the
frame to collapse to the correct size just large enough to hold the text

and
properly centred.

However, when I printed to the file to an PDF and measured the distance

from
the page number to the bottom of the page, it was 0.7" rather than 0.5".
This is problematic since the final PDF file will incorporate pages

created
in different applications, and I don't want the page numbers jumping

around
as you flip through the pages. So I need to be able to control exactly

where
the page number will be.

What's really strange, though, is I have another document that has the

exact
same margin settings and also a bottom, centred page number. I've checked

in
the case of that document the frame size matches the text size for the

page
number. However, when it prints the page numbers are 0.5" from the bottom

of
the page. Well, around 0.52", actually, but I'm guessing the bottom of the
text is 0.5", whereas the baseline is slightly higher.

If I put the 2 documents at the same zoom level side by side for

comparison,
I can see that the one I'm having problems with really does place the page
number higher. Also, when I view the footers, I can see that the footer
frame (the dashed line) is taller for the document with the improper
positioning. Changing the footer margin does change the size of the footer
frame and the position of the page number, but unlike the first document,
the position doesn't match the number entered for the footer margin.

I just don't understand what's going on here...

I've read some suggestions that you just shouldn't use the insert page
number option and instead just use a page number field in the footer
directly. However, I couldn't find the include chapter number option when
inserting a page field. How is this done?

Also, the last part of the document is a list of references. I've used the
header1 style for the title but removed the chapter number. The page

numbers
inherited the chapter number (letter) from the previous section. How can I
advance it so it goes to the next letter, or even better, to an arbitrary
letter (like "R-")? I'm also undecided if the number should continue

between
chapter letters (i.e. A-24, B-25) which is what it's doing or reset at the
start of each chapter (i.e. A-24, B-1). If I wanted to do the latter, what
would I have to do? Note that I need the displayed page number to match
what's in the table of contents and table of figures...

Thanks for your help!



  #3   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
tinaa
 
Posts: n/a
Default page number positioning and format

Removing the frame and inserting the page number directly into the footer
and modifying the paragraph formatting to single line spacing with no indent
seems to have fixed the weird footer margins. I didn't notice the format
page number button before since I've not paid much attention to that
toolbar. I don't see any corresponding menu item, which I find a bit odd.

Now is there a way to exclude the page number from the first page in a
section using this method. I'm able to do it by putting a section break
between the first and second pages then unlinking the footer on the second
page from the first section. I'm just wondering if there's a simpler way to
do that.

Manually changing the chapter letter in the page number won't get picked up
by the TOC, as you noted, so I'd rather not do that. The second method you
describe sounded like it should work. However, when I tried it I got very
unpredictable results. When I first tried it the page numbering didn't
change from that point onward. I then noticed that all the titles previously
set to header1 had their style altered the same way. So I undid that and
tried a few other things but depending on what I do the page number of all
the pages before the References get changed in strange ways (like R- starts
at page 2 even though the header1 paragraph on that page stills says, "A").
There are a number of options in the Customize outline Numbered List dialog
which I image have something to do with this. I'm guessing the pertinent
ones a "Link level to style" and "Apply changes to" but I don't really
understand what these do.

Also, I don't have any section breaks between chapters. I've been relying
only on the header1 style to increment the numbering. Is this wrong? Would
adding section breaks between chapters make this easier?

Speaking of breaks, the page just before the reference list contains a
figure pasted from another application. I put a page break following the
figure so that the reference section starts at the next page. When I was
playing with the numbering styles on the reference title paragraph, any
automatic text (e.g. Chapter R shows up on the previous page, to the left
of the figure. To prevent this, I had to add a new paragraph to the right of
the figure. This made the new text appear correctly on the following page.
However, since the figure is large, the new paragraph moved the page break
to the following page, resulting in an empty page between the figure page
and the reference page. So I had to delete the page break. However, if I
were to do something like shrink the size of the figure, now the reference
title will move to the previous page, below the figure. I find this all a
little confusing. Is there a proper way to add a page break so that there
won't be a blank page should whatever precedes the break end at the bottom
of the page? (I'm probably not explaining that very well...)

Lastly, I have another page with an Excel table pasted in. To make the table
fit I had to make the page a different section and change the layout to
landscape. This causes the page numbers to be in the landscape orientation.
However, I want the page number to be in the regular portrait orientation.
So in this case it would be to the left of the table, 90 degrees clockwise.
Is there a way to keep the page layout portrait, but rotate the pasted table
90 degrees?

Thanks again!

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
As you have been advised, using Insert Page Number directly in the footer
is
more satisfactory in many ways, one of which is being able to more easily
change the page number format between sections. To format the page number
(including adding the chapter number), click on the Format Page Number
button on the Header and Footer toolbar. For your list of references, use
a
different heading style; it can look just like Heading 1 but should not be
based on it. Then, in that section, omit the chapter number from your page
number. You can add R- to the page number manually if you like, but note
that it will not be picked up by the TOC.

Something you might try if you want to include the chapter number and have
it picked up by the TOC: use a different heading style, but instead of
omitting numbering, use ABC numbering as before, but set it to start at R.
Omit any punctuation from the numbering and set "Follow number with" to
"Nothing." Then click on Font... and format the paragraph number as
Hidden.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

"tinaa" wrote in message
...
I'm having some issues with page number I'm hoping someone can help me

with.

Using the insert page number, I've put page numbers at the button, centre

of
the page including chapter numbers based on heading1, which is numbered
A,
B, C... so I get page numbers that look like "A-12" or "C-47". The page
setup has footer margin set to 0.5". At first the page numbers were not
quite centred on the page. After some experimenting I found that the page
number style had inherited the Normal style's attributes of a first line
indent of 0.5" and double spacing so that the frame that holds the page
number in the footer has an extra 0.5" of blank space to the left of the
page number and an extra line's height of blank space below it. Changing

the
text's paragraph formatting to single space, no first line indent causes

the
frame to collapse to the correct size just large enough to hold the text

and
properly centred.

However, when I printed to the file to an PDF and measured the distance

from
the page number to the bottom of the page, it was 0.7" rather than 0.5".
This is problematic since the final PDF file will incorporate pages

created
in different applications, and I don't want the page numbers jumping

around
as you flip through the pages. So I need to be able to control exactly

where
the page number will be.

What's really strange, though, is I have another document that has the

exact
same margin settings and also a bottom, centred page number. I've checked

in
the case of that document the frame size matches the text size for the

page
number. However, when it prints the page numbers are 0.5" from the bottom

of
the page. Well, around 0.52", actually, but I'm guessing the bottom of
the
text is 0.5", whereas the baseline is slightly higher.

If I put the 2 documents at the same zoom level side by side for

comparison,
I can see that the one I'm having problems with really does place the
page
number higher. Also, when I view the footers, I can see that the footer
frame (the dashed line) is taller for the document with the improper
positioning. Changing the footer margin does change the size of the
footer
frame and the position of the page number, but unlike the first document,
the position doesn't match the number entered for the footer margin.

I just don't understand what's going on here...

I've read some suggestions that you just shouldn't use the insert page
number option and instead just use a page number field in the footer
directly. However, I couldn't find the include chapter number option when
inserting a page field. How is this done?

Also, the last part of the document is a list of references. I've used
the
header1 style for the title but removed the chapter number. The page

numbers
inherited the chapter number (letter) from the previous section. How can
I
advance it so it goes to the next letter, or even better, to an arbitrary
letter (like "R-")? I'm also undecided if the number should continue

between
chapter letters (i.e. A-24, B-25) which is what it's doing or reset at
the
start of each chapter (i.e. A-24, B-1). If I wanted to do the latter,
what
would I have to do? Note that I need the displayed page number to match
what's in the table of contents and table of figures...

Thanks for your help!





  #4   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.pagelayout
Suzanne S. Barnhill
 
Posts: n/a
Default page number positioning and format

To omit a page number on the first page of any section, check the "Different
first page" box on the Layout tab of Page Setup. This gives you a separate
First Page Header/Footer that you can leave blank.

As for the numbering of the References header, I think you missed my saying
that you create a separate heading style, identical to but not based on
Heading 1, to use for the References heading. What I missed was the fact
that you can't use a non-Heading style if you want to use "Include chapter
number," so you'll need to use a lower-level Heading style (one that you're
not already using for headings). See
http://www.ShaunaKelly.com/word/numb...ppendixes.html for the
concept.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"tinaa" wrote in message
...
Removing the frame and inserting the page number directly into the footer
and modifying the paragraph formatting to single line spacing with no

indent
seems to have fixed the weird footer margins. I didn't notice the format
page number button before since I've not paid much attention to that
toolbar. I don't see any corresponding menu item, which I find a bit odd.

Now is there a way to exclude the page number from the first page in a
section using this method. I'm able to do it by putting a section break
between the first and second pages then unlinking the footer on the second
page from the first section. I'm just wondering if there's a simpler way

to
do that.

Manually changing the chapter letter in the page number won't get picked

up
by the TOC, as you noted, so I'd rather not do that. The second method you
describe sounded like it should work. However, when I tried it I got very
unpredictable results. When I first tried it the page numbering didn't
change from that point onward. I then noticed that all the titles

previously
set to header1 had their style altered the same way. So I undid that and
tried a few other things but depending on what I do the page number of all
the pages before the References get changed in strange ways (like R-

starts
at page 2 even though the header1 paragraph on that page stills says,

"A").
There are a number of options in the Customize outline Numbered List

dialog
which I image have something to do with this. I'm guessing the pertinent
ones a "Link level to style" and "Apply changes to" but I don't really
understand what these do.

Also, I don't have any section breaks between chapters. I've been relying
only on the header1 style to increment the numbering. Is this wrong? Would
adding section breaks between chapters make this easier?

Speaking of breaks, the page just before the reference list contains a
figure pasted from another application. I put a page break following the
figure so that the reference section starts at the next page. When I was
playing with the numbering styles on the reference title paragraph, any
automatic text (e.g. Chapter R shows up on the previous page, to the

left
of the figure. To prevent this, I had to add a new paragraph to the right

of
the figure. This made the new text appear correctly on the following

page.
However, since the figure is large, the new paragraph moved the page break
to the following page, resulting in an empty page between the figure page
and the reference page. So I had to delete the page break. However, if I
were to do something like shrink the size of the figure, now the reference
title will move to the previous page, below the figure. I find this all a
little confusing. Is there a proper way to add a page break so that there
won't be a blank page should whatever precedes the break end at the bottom
of the page? (I'm probably not explaining that very well...)

Lastly, I have another page with an Excel table pasted in. To make the

table
fit I had to make the page a different section and change the layout to
landscape. This causes the page numbers to be in the landscape

orientation.
However, I want the page number to be in the regular portrait orientation.
So in this case it would be to the left of the table, 90 degrees

clockwise.
Is there a way to keep the page layout portrait, but rotate the pasted

table
90 degrees?

Thanks again!

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
As you have been advised, using Insert Page Number directly in the

footer
is
more satisfactory in many ways, one of which is being able to more

easily
change the page number format between sections. To format the page

number
(including adding the chapter number), click on the Format Page Number
button on the Header and Footer toolbar. For your list of references,

use
a
different heading style; it can look just like Heading 1 but should not

be
based on it. Then, in that section, omit the chapter number from your

page
number. You can add R- to the page number manually if you like, but note
that it will not be picked up by the TOC.

Something you might try if you want to include the chapter number and

have
it picked up by the TOC: use a different heading style, but instead of
omitting numbering, use ABC numbering as before, but set it to start at

R.
Omit any punctuation from the numbering and set "Follow number with" to
"Nothing." Then click on Font... and format the paragraph number as
Hidden.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the

newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

"tinaa" wrote in message
...
I'm having some issues with page number I'm hoping someone can help me

with.

Using the insert page number, I've put page numbers at the button,

centre
of
the page including chapter numbers based on heading1, which is numbered
A,
B, C... so I get page numbers that look like "A-12" or "C-47". The page
setup has footer margin set to 0.5". At first the page numbers were not
quite centred on the page. After some experimenting I found that the

page
number style had inherited the Normal style's attributes of a first

line
indent of 0.5" and double spacing so that the frame that holds the page
number in the footer has an extra 0.5" of blank space to the left of

the
page number and an extra line's height of blank space below it.

Changing
the
text's paragraph formatting to single space, no first line indent

causes
the
frame to collapse to the correct size just large enough to hold the

text
and
properly centred.

However, when I printed to the file to an PDF and measured the distance

from
the page number to the bottom of the page, it was 0.7" rather than

0.5".
This is problematic since the final PDF file will incorporate pages

created
in different applications, and I don't want the page numbers jumping

around
as you flip through the pages. So I need to be able to control exactly

where
the page number will be.

What's really strange, though, is I have another document that has the

exact
same margin settings and also a bottom, centred page number. I've

checked
in
the case of that document the frame size matches the text size for the

page
number. However, when it prints the page numbers are 0.5" from the

bottom
of
the page. Well, around 0.52", actually, but I'm guessing the bottom of
the
text is 0.5", whereas the baseline is slightly higher.

If I put the 2 documents at the same zoom level side by side for

comparison,
I can see that the one I'm having problems with really does place the
page
number higher. Also, when I view the footers, I can see that the footer
frame (the dashed line) is taller for the document with the improper
positioning. Changing the footer margin does change the size of the
footer
frame and the position of the page number, but unlike the first

document,
the position doesn't match the number entered for the footer margin.

I just don't understand what's going on here...

I've read some suggestions that you just shouldn't use the insert page
number option and instead just use a page number field in the footer
directly. However, I couldn't find the include chapter number option

when
inserting a page field. How is this done?

Also, the last part of the document is a list of references. I've used
the
header1 style for the title but removed the chapter number. The page

numbers
inherited the chapter number (letter) from the previous section. How

can
I
advance it so it goes to the next letter, or even better, to an

arbitrary
letter (like "R-")? I'm also undecided if the number should continue

between
chapter letters (i.e. A-24, B-25) which is what it's doing or reset at
the
start of each chapter (i.e. A-24, B-1). If I wanted to do the latter,
what
would I have to do? Note that I need the displayed page number to match
what's in the table of contents and table of figures...

Thanks for your help!






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