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Jag Man
 
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Default Preventing deletion of header

My wife creates the monthly newsletter for a group. It is 2-3 pages
long. By tradition there is a list of officers,
organization logo, and date of the issue at the top of the first page.
I have set this up in the header, and have
a section break at the very beginning of the document.

The problem is one of "disappearing header." She's working on the
document and all of a sudden the
header is gone. I have traced the problem to see what causes it.
Apparently, she inadvertantly deletes
the section break, and that's what makes the header go away. I believe
this is because the initial section,
which has nothing in it and exists only to "hold" the header, gets
deleted along with the break, and that's
the section with the header. There is no undo for this action,
so unless she immediately leaves Word without saving the header is
lost and gone forever. The only
recovery is to go back to a previous issue of the newsleter and start
over, losing all changes made for the
issue being written.

I have looked into how I might "lock" that part of the document so
this can't happen. I checked Help and
the FAQs, but found nothing that directly applies... or at least not
as I understand. Options for
Protecting seem to be based on Subdocuments or Forms, neither of which
seems appropriate for the
initial section. The FAQs gives a couple suggestions for locking the
contents of the header, but they would seem
not to prevent the entire thing from deletion.

Any ideas for solving this problem.

TIA,

Ed


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SVC
 
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Try this link:

http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/wordfaqs/Letterhead.htm

You want to set up Different first page.

"Jag Man" wrote:

My wife creates the monthly newsletter for a group. It is 2-3 pages
long. By tradition there is a list of officers,
organization logo, and date of the issue at the top of the first page.
I have set this up in the header, and have
a section break at the very beginning of the document.

The problem is one of "disappearing header." She's working on the
document and all of a sudden the
header is gone. I have traced the problem to see what causes it.
Apparently, she inadvertantly deletes
the section break, and that's what makes the header go away. I believe
this is because the initial section,
which has nothing in it and exists only to "hold" the header, gets
deleted along with the break, and that's
the section with the header. There is no undo for this action,
so unless she immediately leaves Word without saving the header is
lost and gone forever. The only
recovery is to go back to a previous issue of the newsleter and start
over, losing all changes made for the
issue being written.

I have looked into how I might "lock" that part of the document so
this can't happen. I checked Help and
the FAQs, but found nothing that directly applies... or at least not
as I understand. Options for
Protecting seem to be based on Subdocuments or Forms, neither of which
seems appropriate for the
initial section. The FAQs gives a couple suggestions for locking the
contents of the header, but they would seem
not to prevent the entire thing from deletion.

Any ideas for solving this problem.

TIA,

Ed



  #3   Report Post  
Jag Man
 
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Try this link:

http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/wordfaqs/Letterhead.htm

You want to set up Different first page.


Ok, I read it. Will this lead to a first page header that will not
have a deleatable
section break? I.e., will it solve my problem?

Thanks.

Ed


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PopS
 
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"Jag Man" wrote in
message ...
My wife creates the monthly newsletter for a group.
It is 2-3 pages
long. By tradition there is a list of officers,
organization logo, and date of the issue at the top
of the first page.
I have set this up in the header, and have
a section break at the very beginning of the
document.

The problem is one of "disappearing header." She's
working on the
document and all of a sudden the
header is gone. I have traced the problem to see what
causes it.
Apparently, she inadvertantly deletes
the section break, and that's what makes the header
go away. I believe
this is because the initial section,
which has nothing in it and exists only to "hold" the
header, gets
deleted along with the break, and that's
the section with the header. There is no undo for
this action,
so unless she immediately leaves Word without saving
the header is
lost and gone forever. The only
recovery is to go back to a previous issue of the
newsleter and start
over, losing all changes made for the
issue being written.

I have looked into how I might "lock" that part of
the document so
this can't happen. I checked Help and
the FAQs, but found nothing that directly applies...
or at least not
as I understand. Options for
Protecting seem to be based on Subdocuments or Forms,
neither of which
seems appropriate for the
initial section. The FAQs gives a couple suggestions
for locking the
contents of the header, but they would seem
not to prevent the entire thing from deletion.

Any ideas for solving this problem.

TIA,

Ed



Clarification & verification:
You are saying that:
-- The logo etc. are set up in the "header". Word's
literal Header, or one you are just calling a Header
because it's at the head of the document but still in
the body portion?

-- She's typing away in the body of the document,
making corrections/additions/deletions. She's not
working in or on the Header.

From your description, the header is simply a part of
the body of the document, followed by a Section Break.
Why?

It would not be possible to inadvertantly impact the
Header if it actually existed in the Header area of the
document. Therfore, you seem to not be using Word's
Header & Footer abilties but instead have your header
in the body area.

The "flip" answer is, well put the "header" information
up into the Header where it's protected.

But reason tells me there might be more to the story?
Every page has room for a separate space to hold a
Header and a Footer. You access it by View, Header and
Footer.

Are you using that method? If not, why not? It sounds
like a good "fix". With a good descrip, it might be
possible to find a better way if none of this helps
any.

HTH,

Pop


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Suzanne S. Barnhill
 
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Read it again. You don't need a section break, just a separate First Page
Header in which you put the newsletter nameplate. FWIW, any deletion can be
undone.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Jag Man" wrote in message
...
Try this link:

http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/wordfaqs/Letterhead.htm

You want to set up Different first page.


Ok, I read it. Will this lead to a first page header that will not
have a deleatable
section break? I.e., will it solve my problem?

Thanks.

Ed





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Jag Man
 
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Clarification & verification:
You are saying that:
-- The logo etc. are set up in the "header". Word's
literal Header, or one you are just calling a Header
because it's at the head of the document but still in
the body portion?


I'm calling it the Header because it is in Word's literal Header as
you refer to it.
The one that can only be changed if you select header/footer view.


-- She's typing away in the body of the document,
making corrections/additions/deletions. She's not
working in or on the Header.

From your description, the header is simply a part of
the body of the document, followed by a Section Break.
Why?


I must not have said it clearly enough then, because that's not
not what I THINK I said. When I say "She's working on the
document and all of a sudden the header is gone." I meand she
is working in the document outside the header.

Perhaps the confusion is because I said there is a section break
at the very beginning of the document. I believe this is the correct
way to describe it because it occures right after the header. As I
recall,
it is necessary in order to prevent the header from appearing on
subsequent pages. That is, the first page header is applied only to
the
section before this break, and an empty header is defined for
subsequent pages.

It would not be possible to inadvertantly impact the
Header if it actually existed in the Header area of the
document. Therfore, you seem to not be using Word's
Header & Footer abilties but instead have your header
in the body area.


Oh, but that were true! I'm not trying to be funny, but I am
telling yoy what happens, as strange as it sounds.

The "flip" answer is, well put the "header" information
up into the Header where it's protected.


It is.

But reason tells me there might be more to the story?
Every page has room for a separate space to hold a
Header and a Footer. You access it by View, Header and
Footer.


Understood. While far from an expert, I have been using Word for
as long as it has been around. I have created documents hundreds
of pages long. And I have used headers/footers. This is a strange
problem I have not been able to solve, so am posting here.

More to the story? Well, it's a two-column page layout, but the header
extends the full page width.

Are you using that method? If not, why not? It sounds
like a good "fix". With a good descrip, it might be
possible to find a better way if none of this helps
any.


Let me ask you this. Suppose you set up a document so that there is
Header A on the first page, and Header B on subsequent pages. Since
headers/footers "go with sections," in a manner of speaking, there
must be a section break somewhere between the first page and the
second,
else Header A would appear on the second page too. Now, suppose
all of this is working splindedly and then you select that section
break and hit
the delete key. What happens? Clearly, there is now only one section
so there
can be only one header, but which will it be? While writing this note
I
tried an experiment in my document. I put a line in the header for the
second section
saying "Section 2 header." Guess what? When I deleted the section
break
"Section 2 header" shows up as the header on the first and second
pages!
It turns out it is Header B that survives!

So, I understand what is happening a little better but the problem
remains. When
the section break is deleted the fist page header disappears because
it is
getting replaced by the header specified for the second and following
pages.
And in spite of contrary assertions by someone else who responded, it
cannot be Undone. the Undo is graryed out on the Edit menu.
It seems that deletion of section breaks cannot be undon under certain
circumstances.

Many thanks, Pop. I'll poke around at it a bit more,
but if what I'm saying is still leaving you puzzled, let me
know.

Ed


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Jag Man
 
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I believe the problem has to do with the 2-columns format interacting
with
the headers. In the last note I said the section break was needed to
get different
headers on subsequent pages, but I now see it's to get to 2-colums.
Apparently,
I chose "this point forward" instead of "entire document", and that's
what
necessitated the section break.

Ed


  #8   Report Post  
Jag Man
 
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"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Read it again. You don't need a section break, just a separate First

Page

I forgot to mention that after the header the document is 2-column.
That is why the section break is there.


Header in which you put the newsletter nameplate. FWIW, any deletion

can be
undone.


In some cases Undo is grayed on the Edit menu. That's what I'm seeing
in this case. I've
used Word for many years, and have encountered other times when Undo
is not supported.

Thanks.

Ed


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Daiya Mitchell
 
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Is the entire newsletter two columns? Because if you set the entire
document to two columns, the header will still span both columns. No
section breaks required.

In fact, people often complain about this.


On 8/8/05 11:40 PM, "Jag Man" wrote:


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Read it again. You don't need a section break, just a separate First

Page

I forgot to mention that after the header the document is 2-column.
That is why the section break is there.


Header in which you put the newsletter nameplate. FWIW, any deletion

can be
undone.


In some cases Undo is grayed on the Edit menu. That's what I'm seeing
in this case. I've
used Word for many years, and have encountered other times when Undo
is not supported.

Thanks.

Ed



--
Daiya Mitchell, MVP Mac/Word
Word FAQ: http://www.word.mvps.org/
MacWord Tips: http://www.word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/
What's an MVP? A volunteer! Read the FAQ: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/

  #10   Report Post  
Jag Man
 
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Yes, it is. I think at one time the header material was not in a
header, and that made
it necessary to do a Section break to get to the 2-column format.

Thanks.

Ed


"Daiya Mitchell" wrote in message
.. .
Is the entire newsletter two columns? Because if you set the entire
document to two columns, the header will still span both columns.

No
section breaks required.

In fact, people often complain about this.






  #11   Report Post  
Jag Man
 
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I did succeed in getting a stable header, i.e., one that is not
subject to unintentional, irreversible deletion.
Just wanted to report back and close this off.

The problem was that I wanted a different first -page header, and
2-column format. Apparently, when I set this up a couple years ago I
did it by putting a continuous section break at the beginning of an
empty document, then set the 2-column format to apply "from this point
forward" immediately after the section break. Most likely, I did it
that way because at that time the "header" was
not a proper Word header--- just a bunch of text boxes and a logo at
the top of the page, so i needed 1-column format there to make it
work. I later put the header material in a real Word Header, and
checked the box saying "different first page header,"
but did not remove the section break. The result was a two section
document with header-1 on the first page and header-2 on subsequent
pages. It worked, but when done that way the first page header is
rather volatile; if the section break is deleted suddenly there is
only one section so only one header is needed, and it is header 2 that
survives. Moreover, that action leaves the Undo on the Edit menu
grayed, so it cannot be undone. The header one material is lost
forever!

So, there you have it.

Thanks to all who responded. It was the interaction here that led me
to the solution.

Ed


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