[RBlan]

It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the Home and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell this, you
fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product information when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has nothing
that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf , open in Wordpad and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know, does NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license mentions
'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a movie studio's
machine, that would be clear, but what about freelancers?

--RBlan

[Anup Tawde]

Hi RBlan,

I am not sure but i think YOU CAN'T

See this knowledge based article from Microsoft:

The title bar displays "non-commercial use" when you start an Office Home
and Student 2007 program
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/937676

Again, I am not fully aware about this Microsoft policy. Better, you can
call on 1-800-936-5700 (toll free) i.e. Microsoft Word Support number and get
confirmation from Microsoft regarding the same.

--
Regards,
Anup


"RBlan" wrote:

It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the Home and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell this, you
fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product information when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has nothing
that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf , open in Wordpad and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know, does NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license mentions
'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a movie studio's
machine, that would be clear, but what about freelancers?

--RBlan

[JoAnn Paules]

When you installed the Home and Student version, *you agreed* that it would
not be used for commercial endeavors. Doesn't matter if you're freelance or
not. You can't even use it to do volunteer work for a non-profit
oprganization.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"


"RBlan" wrote in message
...
It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the Home
and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell this, you
fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product information when
I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has nothing
that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf , open in Wordpad
and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know, does
NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license mentions
'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a movie studio's
machine, that would be clear, but what about freelancers?

--RBlan

[Graham Mayor]

Hmmm. On that basis, it is difficult to see what legal use you could put the
program to. The application is, for example, widely sold to educationalists.
It could be argued that education is a 'commercial' endeavour. I wonder too
to what extent purchasers of the software are aware of the limitations
imposed when they pay their money for the product i.e. before they get as
far as being able to read the EULA? And if they did not agree, could they
then get their money back on the basis that it cannot be used for a
legitimate home user task, that may later have a commercial application e.g.
writing a novel?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




JoAnn Paules wrote:
When you installed the Home and Student version, *you agreed* that it
would not be used for commercial endeavors. Doesn't matter if you're
freelance or not. You can't even use it to do volunteer work for a
non-profit oprganization.


"RBlan" wrote in message
...
It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the
Home and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell
this, you fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product
information when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has
nothing that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf ,
open in Wordpad and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know,
does NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license
mentions 'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a
movie studio's machine, that would be clear, but what about
freelancers? --RBlan

[JoAnn Paules]

The EULA says that if you don't agree to it, stop and return the software.

"BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THEM,
DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. INSTEAD, RETURN IT TO THE RETAILER FOR A REFUND OR
CREDIT.
If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the Microsoft
affiliate serving your country for information about Microsoft's refund
policies.
See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada, call (800)
MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm."



--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"


"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
Hmmm. On that basis, it is difficult to see what legal use you could put
the program to. The application is, for example, widely sold to
educationalists. It could be argued that education is a 'commercial'
endeavour. I wonder too to what extent purchasers of the software are
aware of the limitations imposed when they pay their money for the product
i.e. before they get as far as being able to read the EULA? And if they
did not agree, could they then get their money back on the basis that it
cannot be used for a legitimate home user task, that may later have a
commercial application e.g. writing a novel?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




JoAnn Paules wrote:
When you installed the Home and Student version, *you agreed* that it
would not be used for commercial endeavors. Doesn't matter if you're
freelance or not. You can't even use it to do volunteer work for a
non-profit oprganization.


"RBlan" wrote in message
...
It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the
Home and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell
this, you fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product
information when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has
nothing that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf ,
open in Wordpad and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know,
does NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license
mentions 'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a
movie studio's machine, that would be clear, but what about
freelancers? --RBlan

[Tom [Pepper] Willett[_2_]]

And, yet, I've yet to see a retailer who will accept return of opened
software ;-)

Tom

"JoAnn Paules" wrote in message
...
: The EULA says that if you don't agree to it, stop and return the software.
:
: "BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THEM,
: DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. INSTEAD, RETURN IT TO THE RETAILER FOR A REFUND
OR
: CREDIT.
: If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the Microsoft
: affiliate serving your country for information about Microsoft's refund
: policies.
: See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada, call
(800)
: MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm."
:
:
:
: --
:
: JoAnn Paules
: MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
: Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"
:
:
: "Graham Mayor" wrote in message
: ...
: Hmmm. On that basis, it is difficult to see what legal use you could put
: the program to. The application is, for example, widely sold to
: educationalists. It could be argued that education is a 'commercial'
: endeavour. I wonder too to what extent purchasers of the software are
: aware of the limitations imposed when they pay their money for the
product
: i.e. before they get as far as being able to read the EULA? And if they
: did not agree, could they then get their money back on the basis that it
: cannot be used for a legitimate home user task, that may later have a
: commercial application e.g. writing a novel?
:
: --
:
: Graham Mayor - Word MVP
:
: My web site www.gmayor.com
: Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org
:
:
:
:
: JoAnn Paules wrote:
: When you installed the Home and Student version, *you agreed* that it
: would not be used for commercial endeavors. Doesn't matter if you're
: freelance or not. You can't even use it to do volunteer work for a
: non-profit oprganization.
:
:
: "RBlan" wrote in message
: ...
: It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the
: Home and
: Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell
: this, you fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product
: information when I
: was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
: edition.
:
: I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has
: nothing that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf ,
: open in Wordpad and
: then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know,
: does NOT
: prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license
: mentions 'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a
: movie studio's machine, that would be clear, but what about
: freelancers? --RBlan
:
:
:
:

[Graham Mayor]

OK thanks - but I still think you might be hard pressed to find a legitimate
use for the software given the wide ranging exclusions..

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



JoAnn Paules wrote:
The EULA says that if you don't agree to it, stop and return the
software.
"BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT
THEM, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. INSTEAD, RETURN IT TO THE RETAILER FOR
A REFUND OR CREDIT.
If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the
Microsoft affiliate serving your country for information about
Microsoft's refund policies.
See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada,
call (800) MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm."




"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
Hmmm. On that basis, it is difficult to see what legal use you could
put the program to. The application is, for example, widely sold to
educationalists. It could be argued that education is a 'commercial'
endeavour. I wonder too to what extent purchasers of the software are
aware of the limitations imposed when they pay their money for the
product i.e. before they get as far as being able to read the EULA?
And if they did not agree, could they then get their money back on
the basis that it cannot be used for a legitimate home user task,
that may later have a commercial application e.g. writing a novel?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




JoAnn Paules wrote:
When you installed the Home and Student version, *you agreed* that
it would not be used for commercial endeavors. Doesn't matter if
you're freelance or not. You can't even use it to do volunteer work
for a non-profit oprganization.


"RBlan" wrote in message
...
It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the
Home and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell
this, you fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product
information when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the
'Enterprise" edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has
nothing that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf ,
open in Wordpad and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know,
does NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license
mentions 'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a
movie studio's machine, that would be clear, but what about
freelancers? --RBlan

[JoAnn Paules]

Homework, family newsletters, family budgets, home inventories, family
medical records

(Not arguing the point, just listing legitimate uses)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
OK thanks - but I still think you might be hard pressed to find a
legitimate use for the software given the wide ranging exclusions..

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



JoAnn Paules wrote:
The EULA says that if you don't agree to it, stop and return the
software.
"BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT
THEM, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. INSTEAD, RETURN IT TO THE RETAILER FOR
A REFUND OR CREDIT.
If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the
Microsoft affiliate serving your country for information about
Microsoft's refund policies.
See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada,
call (800) MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm."




"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
Hmmm. On that basis, it is difficult to see what legal use you could
put the program to. The application is, for example, widely sold to
educationalists. It could be argued that education is a 'commercial'
endeavour. I wonder too to what extent purchasers of the software are
aware of the limitations imposed when they pay their money for the
product i.e. before they get as far as being able to read the EULA?
And if they did not agree, could they then get their money back on
the basis that it cannot be used for a legitimate home user task,
that may later have a commercial application e.g. writing a novel?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




JoAnn Paules wrote:
When you installed the Home and Student version, *you agreed* that
it would not be used for commercial endeavors. Doesn't matter if
you're freelance or not. You can't even use it to do volunteer work
for a non-profit oprganization.


"RBlan" wrote in message
...
It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the
Home and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell
this, you fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product
information when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the
'Enterprise" edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has
nothing that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf ,
open in Wordpad and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know,
does NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license
mentions 'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a
movie studio's machine, that would be clear, but what about
freelancers? --RBlan

[JoAnn Paules]

Me either but at least Microsoft gives you an alternative.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"Tom [Pepper] Willett" wrote in message
...
And, yet, I've yet to see a retailer who will accept return of opened
software ;-)

Tom

"JoAnn Paules" wrote in message
...
: The EULA says that if you don't agree to it, stop and return the
software.
:
: "BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT
THEM,
: DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. INSTEAD, RETURN IT TO THE RETAILER FOR A REFUND
OR
: CREDIT.
: If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the Microsoft
: affiliate serving your country for information about Microsoft's refund
: policies.
: See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada, call
(800)
: MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm."
:
:
:
: --
:
: JoAnn Paules
: MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
: Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"
:
:
: "Graham Mayor" wrote in message
: ...
: Hmmm. On that basis, it is difficult to see what legal use you could
put
: the program to. The application is, for example, widely sold to
: educationalists. It could be argued that education is a 'commercial'
: endeavour. I wonder too to what extent purchasers of the software are
: aware of the limitations imposed when they pay their money for the
product
: i.e. before they get as far as being able to read the EULA? And if
they
: did not agree, could they then get their money back on the basis that
it
: cannot be used for a legitimate home user task, that may later have a
: commercial application e.g. writing a novel?
:
: --
:
: Graham Mayor - Word MVP
:
: My web site www.gmayor.com
: Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org
:
:
:
:
: JoAnn Paules wrote:
: When you installed the Home and Student version, *you agreed* that it
: would not be used for commercial endeavors. Doesn't matter if you're
: freelance or not. You can't even use it to do volunteer work for a
: non-profit oprganization.
:
:
: "RBlan" wrote in message
: ...
: It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the
: Home and
: Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell
: this, you fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product
: information when I
: was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the
'Enterprise"
: edition.
:
: I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has
: nothing that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf ,
: open in Wordpad and
: then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know,
: does NOT
: prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license
: mentions 'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a
: movie studio's machine, that would be clear, but what about
: freelancers? --RBlan
:
:
:
:

[RBlan]

Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde) and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old .rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try to sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the courts will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I owe MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a $3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I want to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me." Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a 30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software back, I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this freely and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully) 2007
for $109.00 list (See e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my 64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They said to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff at HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran on my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't work
after all?

--Ralph

"RBlan" wrote:

It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the Home and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell this, you
fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product information when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has nothing
that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf , open in Wordpad and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know, does NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license mentions
'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a movie studio's
machine, that would be clear, but what about freelancers?

--RBlan

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Congratulations on your success. If you can show as much initiative and
determination in writing and selling your novel, you may not have a
bestseller, but I'm sure you'll get into print! (You've already demonstrated
that you know how to tell a good story. g)

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"RBlan" wrote in message
news
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde) and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course
you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the
honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish
it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year
later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old
.rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try to
sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the courts
will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not
licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so
even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I owe
MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest
about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of
course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a
$3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I want
to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me." Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a
30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software back,
I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the
software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox
spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They
fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I
mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly
open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only
read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for
commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this freely
and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I
didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully)
2007
for $109.00 list (See e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my 64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They said
to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff at
HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran on
my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't work
after all?

--Ralph

"RBlan" wrote:

It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the Home
and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell this, you
fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product information
when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has nothing
that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf , open in Wordpad
and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know, does
NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license mentions
'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a movie studio's
machine, that would be clear, but what about freelancers?

--RBlan

[grammatim[_2_]]

On Jul 12, 12:59*am, RBlan wrote:
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde) and
after bullying *my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. *I finish it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. *A year later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old .rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try to sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the courts will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." *Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, *i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I owe MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a $3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I want to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me." Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. *Blessedly, HP has a 30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software back, I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, *-- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) *They fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this freely and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get into
messy legal proceedings.

I *almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. *I didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully) 2007
for $109.00 *list (See e.g.http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my 64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". *They said to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff at HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran on my
machine, I should have no problem. *Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't work
after all?

I don't think you're going to have any trouble selling that novel.

But it looks like you could start taking advantage of your license to
do commercial use by selling short stories!

BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names like any other
company's. Congratulations on finding Sargi!

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It is amazing to me how many Indians name their children "Steve" or "Ken" or
whatever. g But I admit that the one time I was dealing with an Indian who
actually gave her true name, I had to ask her three times how to spell it.
I'm sure they feel they are making things easier for us by using "familiar"
names (and of course it also provides a certain measure of privacy and
perhaps even plausible deniability).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:59 am, RBlan wrote:
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde) and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course
you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the
honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year
later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old
.rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try to
sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the courts
will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not
licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so
even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I owe
MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest
about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of
course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a
$3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I want
to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me." Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a
30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software back,
I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the
software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox
spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They
fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I
mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly
open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only
read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for
commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this freely
and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully)
2007
for $109.00 list (See
e.g.http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my 64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They said
to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff at
HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran on
my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't work
after all?

I don't think you're going to have any trouble selling that novel.

But it looks like you could start taking advantage of your license to
do commercial use by selling short stories!

BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names like any other
company's. Congratulations on finding Sargi!

[JoAnn Paules]

When I worked for a comouter manufacturer, all of the tech people, located
here in the states, used pseudonyms. (Our company had a directory of their
real names and aliases.) One of the reasons is security. People don't always
like the answer they're given and there are a few nut cases out there who
will seek revenge. We didn't use pseudonyms (we were local sales reps) and
one of my coworkers was getting harassing phone calls at home.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
It is amazing to me how many Indians name their children "Steve" or "Ken"
or whatever. g But I admit that the one time I was dealing with an
Indian who actually gave her true name, I had to ask her three times how
to spell it. I'm sure they feel they are making things easier for us by
using "familiar" names (and of course it also provides a certain measure
of privacy and perhaps even plausible deniability).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:59 am, RBlan wrote:
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde) and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course
you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the
honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish
it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as
going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year
later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old
.rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try to
sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the courts
will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I
shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not
licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so
even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I
owe MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest
about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of
course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a
$3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I want
to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me." Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a
30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software back,
I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the
software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox
spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They
fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I
mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of
my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly
open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only
read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for
commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this freely
and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I
didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from
the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully)
2007
for $109.00 list (See
e.g.http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my
64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They said
to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff
at HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran on
my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't work
after all?

I don't think you're going to have any trouble selling that novel.

But it looks like you could start taking advantage of your license to
do commercial use by selling short stories!

BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names like any other
company's. Congratulations on finding Sargi!

[JoAnn Paules]

I'm sorry you had to go thru all of that but I am glad that you're getting
what you need for less money. And I'm especially pleased that you prefer to
do things the legal way. Most people would not have bothered. You give me
reason to think that mankind has some decency left!

Good luck with the novel. And if you need an idea for a black comedy, let me
know. ;-)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"RBlan" wrote in message
news
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde) and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course
you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the
honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish
it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year
later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old
.rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try to
sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the courts
will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not
licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so
even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I owe
MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest
about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of
course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a
$3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I want
to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me." Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a
30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software back,
I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the
software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox
spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They
fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I
mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly
open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only
read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for
commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this freely
and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I
didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully)
2007
for $109.00 list (See e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my 64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They said
to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff at
HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran on
my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't work
after all?

--Ralph

"RBlan" wrote:

It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the Home
and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell this, you
fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product information
when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the 'Enterprise"
edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has nothing
that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf , open in Wordpad
and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know, does
NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license mentions
'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a movie studio's
machine, that would be clear, but what about freelancers?

--RBlan

[Doug Robbins - Word MVP]

Hey, what's a "comouter"?

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"JoAnn Paules" wrote in message
...
When I worked for a comouter manufacturer, all of the tech people, located
here in the states, used pseudonyms. (Our company had a directory of their
real names and aliases.) One of the reasons is security. People don't
always like the answer they're given and there are a few nut cases out
there who will seek revenge. We didn't use pseudonyms (we were local sales
reps) and one of my coworkers was getting harassing phone calls at home.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
It is amazing to me how many Indians name their children "Steve" or "Ken"
or whatever. g But I admit that the one time I was dealing with an
Indian who actually gave her true name, I had to ask her three times how
to spell it. I'm sure they feel they are making things easier for us by
using "familiar" names (and of course it also provides a certain measure
of privacy and perhaps even plausible deniability).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:59 am, RBlan wrote:
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde)
and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course
you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the
honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish
it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as
going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year
later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old
.rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try to
sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the courts
will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I
shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not
licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so
even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I
owe MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest
about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of
course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a
$3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I want
to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me." Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a
30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software
back, I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the
software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, --
I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox
spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They
fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I
mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of
my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly
open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only
read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for
commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this
freely and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get
into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I
didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from
the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully)
2007
for $109.00 list (See
e.g.http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my
64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They
said to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff
at HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran on
my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't
work
after all?

I don't think you're going to have any trouble selling that novel.

But it looks like you could start taking advantage of your license to
do commercial use by selling short stories!

BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names like any other
company's. Congratulations on finding Sargi!

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Someone who is coming out.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote in message
...
Hey, what's a "comouter"?

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"JoAnn Paules" wrote in message
...
When I worked for a comouter manufacturer, all of the tech people,
located here in the states, used pseudonyms. (Our company had a directory
of their real names and aliases.) One of the reasons is security. People
don't always like the answer they're given and there are a few nut cases
out there who will seek revenge. We didn't use pseudonyms (we were local
sales reps) and one of my coworkers was getting harassing phone calls at
home.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
It is amazing to me how many Indians name their children "Steve" or
"Ken" or whatever. g But I admit that the one time I was dealing with
an Indian who actually gave her true name, I had to ask her three times
how to spell it. I'm sure they feel they are making things easier for us
by using "familiar" names (and of course it also provides a certain
measure of privacy and perhaps even plausible deniability).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:59 am, RBlan wrote:
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde)
and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course
you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the
honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish
it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as
going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year
later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old
.rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try
to sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the
courts will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I
shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not
licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so
even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I
owe MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest
about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of
course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a
$3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I
want to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me."
Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a
30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software
back, I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the
software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, --
I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox
spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They
fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I
mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of
my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly
open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only
read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for
commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this
freely and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get
into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I
didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from
the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully)
2007
for $109.00 list (See
e.g.http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my
64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They
said to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff
at HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran
on my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't
work
after all?

I don't think you're going to have any trouble selling that novel.

But it looks like you could start taking advantage of your license to
do commercial use by selling short stories!

BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names like any other
company's. Congratulations on finding Sargi!

[JoAnn Paules]

It's what you get when the keys on your keyboard trade places. ;-)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"Doug Robbins - Word MVP" wrote in message
...
Hey, what's a "comouter"?

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

"JoAnn Paules" wrote in message
...
When I worked for a comouter manufacturer, all of the tech people,
located here in the states, used pseudonyms. (Our company had a directory
of their real names and aliases.) One of the reasons is security. People
don't always like the answer they're given and there are a few nut cases
out there who will seek revenge. We didn't use pseudonyms (we were local
sales reps) and one of my coworkers was getting harassing phone calls at
home.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
It is amazing to me how many Indians name their children "Steve" or
"Ken" or whatever. g But I admit that the one time I was dealing with
an Indian who actually gave her true name, I had to ask her three times
how to spell it. I'm sure they feel they are making things easier for us
by using "familiar" names (and of course it also provides a certain
measure of privacy and perhaps even plausible deniability).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"grammatim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:59 am, RBlan wrote:
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde)
and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course
you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the
honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish
it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as
going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year
later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old
.rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try
to sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the
courts will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I
shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not
licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so
even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I
owe MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest
about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of
course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a
$3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I
want to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me."
Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a
30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software
back, I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the
software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, --
I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox
spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They
fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I
mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of
my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly
open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only
read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for
commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this
freely and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get
into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I
didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from
the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully)
2007
for $109.00 list (See
e.g.http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my
64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They
said to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff
at HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran
on my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't
work
after all?

I don't think you're going to have any trouble selling that novel.

But it looks like you could start taking advantage of your license to
do commercial use by selling short stories!

BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names like any other
company's. Congratulations on finding Sargi!

[Anup Tawde]

I am sorry if I misunderstood, but I didnt get the intention of saying


BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names


If you observe, many US companies including Microsoft, HP, Dell, etc have
their Software Support centers in India. Infact, Microsoft has their Office
applications support, OS support, Server support in India. You might wonder
but Microsoft Word Support Center is ONLY IN INDIA. I know because I am from
Mumbai(Bombay), India and was working with one of the US giant as Tech Lead.

These Techs belongs to different religions. Many of them are christians as
well. So, no wonder if you find any Sam, Peter, Tom, Jimmy, Jenny, Joice,
Christine..!

Apart from this, there are other techs who use American names JUST BECAUSE
Americans can understand their names quickly and correctly. So that, we save
time in understanding names of Techs and utilize the same time in providing
TOP quality service....!!!

Not arguing, but just a piece of information...!

--
Regards,
Anup Tawde
Mumbai, India


"grammatim" wrote:

On Jul 12, 12:59 am, RBlan wrote:
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde) and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of course you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I finish it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old .rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try to sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the courts will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity" so even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I owe MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a $3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I want to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me." Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a 30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software back, I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this freely and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully) 2007
for $109.00 list (See e.g.http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my 64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They said to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff at HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran on my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't work
after all?

I don't think you're going to have any trouble selling that novel.

But it looks like you could start taking advantage of your license to
do commercial use by selling short stories!

BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names like any other
company's. Congratulations on finding Sargi!

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I think you'll find that your points were made somewhere in the thread, but
thanks for repeating them--and for your assistance in this forum.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Anup Tawde" wrote in message
...
I am sorry if I misunderstood, but I didnt get the intention of saying


BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names


If you observe, many US companies including Microsoft, HP, Dell, etc have
their Software Support centers in India. Infact, Microsoft has their
Office
applications support, OS support, Server support in India. You might
wonder
but Microsoft Word Support Center is ONLY IN INDIA. I know because I am
from
Mumbai(Bombay), India and was working with one of the US giant as Tech
Lead.

These Techs belongs to different religions. Many of them are christians as
well. So, no wonder if you find any Sam, Peter, Tom, Jimmy, Jenny, Joice,
Christine..!

Apart from this, there are other techs who use American names JUST BECAUSE
Americans can understand their names quickly and correctly. So that, we
save
time in understanding names of Techs and utilize the same time in
providing
TOP quality service....!!!

Not arguing, but just a piece of information...!

--
Regards,
Anup Tawde
Mumbai, India


"grammatim" wrote:

On Jul 12, 12:59 am, RBlan wrote:
Thanks for the input. I called MS (thanks for the number, Anup Tawde)
and
after bullying my way up to a supervisor (the first rep said "of
course you
can sell it, you own your own creations") I got the answer from the
honchos
at Sales and Licensing who confirmed Joanne Paules first judgment:
PROHIBBITED.

Naturally, this irritates me. For the sake of the argument, let's say I
write a novel (for my own amusement) in Word Home and Student. I
finish it
and, just to be safe from future software incompatibilities (such as
going
from .doc to .docx), I decide to save my work as an .rtf file. A year
later,
after I've scrapped my Vista Ultimate machine for a Mac, I open the old
.rtf
file and say to myself, "Hey, this is pretty good -- I think I'll try
to sell
it." No way, right? Microsoft owns me. If I'm honest about it the
courts will
grant Microsoft at least half the revenue from this sale, for I
shamefully
breeched a contract that couldn't be clearer: "The software is not
licensed
for use in any commercial, non-profit, or revenue-generating business
activities." Trying to sell a novel is clearly a "business activity"
so even
if it doesn't sell, or if I self-publish and it bombs, i.e. it was a
'non-profit' venture after all, I'm in violation of the license, and I
owe MS
whatever the lawyers can squeeze out of me. Of course if I'm dishonest
about
it, whoTF is going to know about it? Honesty is the best policy, of
course.

I called Hewlett Packard, from whom I bought the software along with a
$3000
state of the art computer to replace my Win98SE system and said, "I
want to
return this software -- the license terms are unacceptable to me."
Sargi
consulted with her supervisors and reported that they could not accept
returns of software sold with a computer system. Blessedly, HP has a
30-day
system return policy. "Okay, I said, if you won't take the software
back, I'm
returning the whole system." More consultation: "We can't take the
software
back but we'll refund you $80." "How much did I pay for this software?"
"$149" ($.99 short, but close enough.) "That's not acceptable -- I'm
returning everything." More consultation. "$100." "Not acceptable, --
I'm
returning everything." More consultation. (You know, I miss my Firefox
spell
checker -- I think I'll switch back after I finish writing this.) They
fold.
I'm getting the $149 and they can keep the change. And I still own (I
mean,
license) this crippleware, but soon it will be in the trash. No part of
my
novel will be written in Home and Student. However I did irresponsibly
open
my primary file of notes for my novel in this software (though I only
read,
did not write), so technically, I have used Home and Student for
commercial
purposes, and I was in violaton of the license terms. I admit this
freely and
I invite Microsoft to send me the bill for damages -- no need to get
into
messy legal proceedings.

I almost paid HP $399 for Office 2007 Standard but at the last minute
I
said "I changed my mind, I'll buy it from a software discounter. I
didn't.
To make a long story short(er), I found out that my old Word 2000 from
the
Win98 machine was elegible to upgrade to Word (not Office, mercifully)
2007
for $109.00 list (See
e.g.http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Word...dp/B000HCVR5S).
Don't you just love a happy ending?

By the way, MS wanted to charge me $79? (I forget the exact amount) to
answer my question as to whether Word 2007 Standard would run on my
64-bit
system since the system requirements say "32 bit browser only". They
said to
ask HP since I bought the OEM Vista Ultimate. Of course the crack staff
at HP
didn't really know either but suggested that since Home & Student ran
on my
machine, I should have no problem. Wouldn't it be funny if it didn't
work
after all?

I don't think you're going to have any trouble selling that novel.

But it looks like you could start taking advantage of your license to
do commercial use by selling short stories!

BTW the one time I tried dealing with HP customer "service," all those
Indian software geeks claimed to have American names like any other
company's. Congratulations on finding Sargi!

[RBlan]

Legitimate uses of MS Word Home & Student? Guess what I came across?
Microsoft's OWN description of how you may use this softwa

================================================== ==
Introducing Your Household Helper
Microsoft Office Home & Student 2007

Such an indispensable part of home life, Office Home and Student 2007 may
make family pets jealous. It's designed to help the whole family manage
information for school, work, and home in one convenient place. With more
reliability, security, and help than ever, it's easy to create great-looking
documents, keep in touch, and stay on top of everything.

Try Office Home and Student 2007 Now!
================================================== ==
See:
http://us20.trymicrosoftoffice.com/p...&culture=en-US
....or if that changes, take your pick from:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://...&culture=en-US

You read it yourself, folks: "It's designed to help the whole family manage
information for school, WORK [emphasis mine -RB], and home in one convenient
place." Obviously a professional writer who works at home will be managing
the information for his work when he does his word-processing on this
software!

Now I realize that Microsoft can claim, 'Yes it was _designed_ to help the
whole family manage information for work, etc. However, it wasn't _licensed_
for that!' -- but given that this is what you see _before_ you buy, and the
long, fine-print license only after you buy and open the package, how
compelling do you think that argument would be to a judge or jury?

Disclaimer: I am not licensed to give legal advice. Consult your own legal
adviser.

-RB



"JoAnn Paules" wrote:

Homework, family newsletters, family budgets, home inventories, family
medical records

(Not arguing the point, just listing legitimate uses)

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
OK thanks - but I still think you might be hard pressed to find a
legitimate use for the software given the wide ranging exclusions..

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



JoAnn Paules wrote:
The EULA says that if you don't agree to it, stop and return the
software.
"BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT
THEM, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. INSTEAD, RETURN IT TO THE RETAILER FOR
A REFUND OR CREDIT.
If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the
Microsoft affiliate serving your country for information about
Microsoft's refund policies.
See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada,
call (800) MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm."




"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
Hmmm. On that basis, it is difficult to see what legal use you could
put the program to. The application is, for example, widely sold to
educationalists. It could be argued that education is a 'commercial'
endeavour. I wonder too to what extent purchasers of the software are
aware of the limitations imposed when they pay their money for the
product i.e. before they get as far as being able to read the EULA?
And if they did not agree, could they then get their money back on
the basis that it cannot be used for a legitimate home user task,
that may later have a commercial application e.g. writing a novel?

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org




JoAnn Paules wrote:
When you installed the Home and Student version, *you agreed* that
it would not be used for commercial endeavors. Doesn't matter if
you're freelance or not. You can't even use it to do volunteer work
for a non-profit oprganization.


"RBlan" wrote in message
...
It really irritates me to see that "not-commercial use" line on the
Home and
Student version title bar -- it almost says "you'll never sell
this, you fool!" This restriction was not mentioned on the product
information when I
was selecting this software. I certainly didn't need the
'Enterprise" edition.

I suppose that since a novel or even a screenplay manuscript has
nothing that can't be done in .rtf that one could save as .rtf ,
open in Wordpad and
then save again and/or print from a program that, as far as I know,
does NOT
prohibit 'comercial use'. This really irritates me. The license
mentions 'business' use, and if I were writing a screenplay on a
movie studio's machine, that would be clear, but what about
freelancers? --RBlan