[anne]

I'm trying to get a first page with its own header and footer, a blank second
page with neither header nor footer, a third page (and odd thereafter...)
with an odd-page footer, and a fourth page (and even thereafter...) with an
even-page footer.

I thought I understood headers and footers and sections quite well as I can
do all of this easily, however, in this document where I wish to set up my
Heading 1 style such that all first level headings have a page break before
(which is what I want), I get pages 2 and 3 blank necessarily, with my text
beginning on a left-hand page 4.

Can anyone please steer me toward where to make what adjustments?!

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

You can have up to three different headers/footers (blank or with text) in a
given section by selecting both "Different first page" and "Different odd
and even." If you want more than that, you'll have to add a section break.
See http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/HeaderFooter.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Anne" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to get a first page with its own header and footer, a blank
second
page with neither header nor footer, a third page (and odd thereafter...)
with an odd-page footer, and a fourth page (and even thereafter...) with
an
even-page footer.

I thought I understood headers and footers and sections quite well as I
can
do all of this easily, however, in this document where I wish to set up my
Heading 1 style such that all first level headings have a page break
before
(which is what I want), I get pages 2 and 3 blank necessarily, with my
text
beginning on a left-hand page 4.

Can anyone please steer me toward where to make what adjustments?!

[anne]

Hi Suzanne -- yet again, thanks for answering ;-)

I've already set up both sections for "different first page" and "different
odd and even", and have tried several types of section break as well -- next
page, continuous, and even odd page.

The only one which doesn't give me two blank pages between my title page
(page 1) and the first page of my text (what I'd like to be page 3) is the
continuous page break -- as would be expected.

However, if I place that section break at the end of the text I wish to fall
on my title page and then make the next line of text (which I wish to be the
first line of my first text page) a Heading 1 which is set-up with a "page
break before," I get just the single blank page in between. BUT, despite the
settings for each section being different first and different odd & even, I
can't get the blank page (which is the first page -- no, make that first FULL
page -- of section 2) to have its own first page header and footer. My
headers and footers go from First Page Header Section 1 right into Even Page
Header Section 2

This seems pretty logical in that the continuous section break sits within
the confines of the first page so my guess is that Word sees both sections 1
and 2 as 'sharing' the same first page?

I'm thinking this must be a very fine adjustment of the exact placement of
that manual section break ... but that doesn't mean I know exactly where it
ought to go!

Any other thoughts?


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

You can have up to three different headers/footers (blank or with text) in a
given section by selecting both "Different first page" and "Different odd
and even." If you want more than that, you'll have to add a section break.
See http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/HeaderFooter.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

If you're going to have an Odd Page section break at the beginning of each
chapter, don't format Heading 1 as "Page break before." Or, if this is a
single instance, just remove the "Page break before" formatting for that
single heading.

I've kind of lost track of what you're trying to do, but here's how I handle
it in book layouts:

Each chapter begins a new section.

Each section has "Different first page" and "Different odd and even"
enabled.

The First Page Header is blank, and there's a page number (centered) in the
First Page Footer.

The Even Page Header and Odd Page Footer are different, one of them usually
containing a StyleRef field to pick up the chapter title.

If the page number isn't in the header, then it's in both footers (usually
centered for simplicity).

Does this help at all?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Anne" wrote in message
...
Hi Suzanne -- yet again, thanks for answering ;-)

I've already set up both sections for "different first page" and
"different
odd and even", and have tried several types of section break as well --
next
page, continuous, and even odd page.

The only one which doesn't give me two blank pages between my title page
(page 1) and the first page of my text (what I'd like to be page 3) is the
continuous page break -- as would be expected.

However, if I place that section break at the end of the text I wish to
fall
on my title page and then make the next line of text (which I wish to be
the
first line of my first text page) a Heading 1 which is set-up with a "page
break before," I get just the single blank page in between. BUT, despite
the
settings for each section being different first and different odd & even,
I
can't get the blank page (which is the first page -- no, make that first
FULL
page -- of section 2) to have its own first page header and footer. My
headers and footers go from First Page Header Section 1 right into Even
Page
Header Section 2

This seems pretty logical in that the continuous section break sits within
the confines of the first page so my guess is that Word sees both sections
1
and 2 as 'sharing' the same first page?

I'm thinking this must be a very fine adjustment of the exact placement of
that manual section break ... but that doesn't mean I know exactly where
it
ought to go!

Any other thoughts?


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

You can have up to three different headers/footers (blank or with text)
in a
given section by selecting both "Different first page" and "Different
odd
and even." If you want more than that, you'll have to add a section
break.
See http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/HeaderFooter.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

[anne]

Good morning Suzanne--

Yes and no this helps. For whatever silly reason, the concept of removing
the "page break before" from only the first incidence of Heading 1 had never
occurred to me, so that certainly is potentially useful. It doesn't seem to
solve this problem, however.

Try as I might, I cannot get a 2nd blank page which starts a 2nd section and
has its own first page header and footer.

Let me try again to make it crystal clear what I want to achieve:

-- I want a first page which is a title page
-- I want a second page which is completely blank
-- I want my text pages to begin on page three

-- I would like the first page to have its own unique header and footer
-- I would like neither a header nor a footer on the 2nd page
-- and I would like different odd- and even-page headers and footers for all
text pages from page 3 onwards.

Here's what I tried this morning in an attempt to obtain the above:

I cleared all breaks to make sure I was starting clean. At that point I
tried inserting a variety of section breaks (one-by-one, clearing any
previous attempts). I tried an "odd page" section break in combination with
manually clearing the "page break before" on the first Heading 1, and, sure
enough, a single blank page was inserted. Thought I'd got it, but spoke too
soon:

The blank page added doesn't seem to be 'recognized' by Word in Page Layout
view although its visible in Print Preview. Since I read somewhere that of
the two, Print Preview is more reliable, that didn't really concern me.

However, in terms of headers and footers, I cannot seem to access what to me
is the first page of Section 2, i.e., the blank second page!

My headers read as follows:

First Page Header -Section 1- (page 1/22)
First Page Header -Section 2- (page 3/22)
Even Page Header -Section 2- (page 4/22)

So I HAVE a First Page Headers for both sections, and yet the one for the
second section insists on falling on the wrong page -- I want it on the blank
second page!

I got essentially the same results with the other breaks I tried. While I
admit to getting yet again a bit dizzy with it all, I believe I tried every
possible combination of breaks and placement (should the break be put at the
end of the text of the title page? should the break be put at the beginning
of the text of Heading 1? should the break be put 1 space back from the
beginning of the text of Heading 1, i.e., "upon" the heading numbering
itself?)

Endless frustration over here. Again, a general plea for help ...

Thanks.



"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

If you're going to have an Odd Page section break at the beginning of each
chapter, don't format Heading 1 as "Page break before." Or, if this is a
single instance, just remove the "Page break before" formatting for that
single heading.

I've kind of lost track of what you're trying to do, but here's how I handle
it in book layouts:

Each chapter begins a new section.

Each section has "Different first page" and "Different odd and even"
enabled.

The First Page Header is blank, and there's a page number (centered) in the
First Page Footer.

The Even Page Header and Odd Page Footer are different, one of them usually
containing a StyleRef field to pick up the chapter title.

If the page number isn't in the header, then it's in both footers (usually
centered for simplicity).

Does this help at all?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)

[anne]

NEVER MIND -- I GOT IT!

Okay, the time difference in this instance in beneficial (I write from
Europe) as you will not waste time trying to answer something I've worked out.

Re-read YOUR article "Deleting 'Blank' Pages" and this time the following
actually sunk in:

"This page is completely invisible to the user (except in Print Preview with
facing pages displayed) but will be "printed" by the printer."

That explains what I can see and not see, and in the meantime, I realized
that the blank page inserted came straight out of the box exactly as I wanted
in any event, i.e. without either header or footer! So I stopped trying to
get a Section 2 first page header which I could make blank, changed my page
layout specs for the second section just to "different odd and even" and ...
voila! I'm home free!

Thanks YET AGAIN Suzanne for your help, including the great articles you
publish!

"Anne" wrote:

Good morning Suzanne--

Yes and no this helps. For whatever silly reason, the concept of removing
the "page break before" from only the first incidence of Heading 1 had never
occurred to me, so that certainly is potentially useful. It doesn't seem to
solve this problem, however.

Try as I might, I cannot get a 2nd blank page which starts a 2nd section and
has its own first page header and footer.

Let me try again to make it crystal clear what I want to achieve:

-- I want a first page which is a title page
-- I want a second page which is completely blank
-- I want my text pages to begin on page three

-- I would like the first page to have its own unique header and footer
-- I would like neither a header nor a footer on the 2nd page
-- and I would like different odd- and even-page headers and footers for all
text pages from page 3 onwards.

Here's what I tried this morning in an attempt to obtain the above:

I cleared all breaks to make sure I was starting clean. At that point I
tried inserting a variety of section breaks (one-by-one, clearing any
previous attempts). I tried an "odd page" section break in combination with
manually clearing the "page break before" on the first Heading 1, and, sure
enough, a single blank page was inserted. Thought I'd got it, but spoke too
soon:

The blank page added doesn't seem to be 'recognized' by Word in Page Layout
view although its visible in Print Preview. Since I read somewhere that of
the two, Print Preview is more reliable, that didn't really concern me.

However, in terms of headers and footers, I cannot seem to access what to me
is the first page of Section 2, i.e., the blank second page!

My headers read as follows:

First Page Header -Section 1- (page 1/22)
First Page Header -Section 2- (page 3/22)
Even Page Header -Section 2- (page 4/22)

So I HAVE a First Page Headers for both sections, and yet the one for the
second section insists on falling on the wrong page -- I want it on the blank
second page!

I got essentially the same results with the other breaks I tried. While I
admit to getting yet again a bit dizzy with it all, I believe I tried every
possible combination of breaks and placement (should the break be put at the
end of the text of the title page? should the break be put at the beginning
of the text of Heading 1? should the break be put 1 space back from the
beginning of the text of Heading 1, i.e., "upon" the heading numbering
itself?)

Endless frustration over here. Again, a general plea for help ...

Thanks.



"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

If you're going to have an Odd Page section break at the beginning of each
chapter, don't format Heading 1 as "Page break before." Or, if this is a
single instance, just remove the "Page break before" formatting for that
single heading.

I've kind of lost track of what you're trying to do, but here's how I handle
it in book layouts:

Each chapter begins a new section.

Each section has "Different first page" and "Different odd and even"
enabled.

The First Page Header is blank, and there's a page number (centered) in the
First Page Footer.

The Even Page Header and Odd Page Footer are different, one of them usually
containing a StyleRef field to pick up the chapter title.

If the page number isn't in the header, then it's in both footers (usually
centered for simplicity).

Does this help at all?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Yes, I'm grateful for the time difference, too! That "completely blank" page
is really a hard concept to swallow and has to be experienced (printed) to
be understood. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Anne" wrote in message
...
NEVER MIND -- I GOT IT!

Okay, the time difference in this instance in beneficial (I write from
Europe) as you will not waste time trying to answer something I've worked
out.

Re-read YOUR article "Deleting 'Blank' Pages" and this time the following
actually sunk in:

"This page is completely invisible to the user (except in Print Preview
with
facing pages displayed) but will be "printed" by the printer."

That explains what I can see and not see, and in the meantime, I realized
that the blank page inserted came straight out of the box exactly as I
wanted
in any event, i.e. without either header or footer! So I stopped trying to
get a Section 2 first page header which I could make blank, changed my
page
layout specs for the second section just to "different odd and even" and
....
voila! I'm home free!

Thanks YET AGAIN Suzanne for your help, including the great articles you
publish!

"Anne" wrote:

Good morning Suzanne--

Yes and no this helps. For whatever silly reason, the concept of
removing
the "page break before" from only the first incidence of Heading 1 had
never
occurred to me, so that certainly is potentially useful. It doesn't seem
to
solve this problem, however.

Try as I might, I cannot get a 2nd blank page which starts a 2nd section
and
has its own first page header and footer.

Let me try again to make it crystal clear what I want to achieve:

-- I want a first page which is a title page
-- I want a second page which is completely blank
-- I want my text pages to begin on page three

-- I would like the first page to have its own unique header and footer
-- I would like neither a header nor a footer on the 2nd page
-- and I would like different odd- and even-page headers and footers for
all
text pages from page 3 onwards.

Here's what I tried this morning in an attempt to obtain the above:

I cleared all breaks to make sure I was starting clean. At that point I
tried inserting a variety of section breaks (one-by-one, clearing any
previous attempts). I tried an "odd page" section break in combination
with
manually clearing the "page break before" on the first Heading 1, and,
sure
enough, a single blank page was inserted. Thought I'd got it, but spoke
too
soon:

The blank page added doesn't seem to be 'recognized' by Word in Page
Layout
view although its visible in Print Preview. Since I read somewhere that
of
the two, Print Preview is more reliable, that didn't really concern me.

However, in terms of headers and footers, I cannot seem to access what
to me
is the first page of Section 2, i.e., the blank second page!

My headers read as follows:

First Page Header -Section 1- (page 1/22)
First Page Header -Section 2- (page 3/22)
Even Page Header -Section 2- (page 4/22)

So I HAVE a First Page Headers for both sections, and yet the one for
the
second section insists on falling on the wrong page -- I want it on the
blank
second page!

I got essentially the same results with the other breaks I tried. While
I
admit to getting yet again a bit dizzy with it all, I believe I tried
every
possible combination of breaks and placement (should the break be put at
the
end of the text of the title page? should the break be put at the
beginning
of the text of Heading 1? should the break be put 1 space back from the
beginning of the text of Heading 1, i.e., "upon" the heading numbering
itself?)

Endless frustration over here. Again, a general plea for help ...

Thanks.



"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

If you're going to have an Odd Page section break at the beginning of
each
chapter, don't format Heading 1 as "Page break before." Or, if this is
a
single instance, just remove the "Page break before" formatting for
that
single heading.

I've kind of lost track of what you're trying to do, but here's how I
handle
it in book layouts:

Each chapter begins a new section.

Each section has "Different first page" and "Different odd and even"
enabled.

The First Page Header is blank, and there's a page number (centered)
in the
First Page Footer.

The Even Page Header and Odd Page Footer are different, one of them
usually
containing a StyleRef field to pick up the chapter title.

If the page number isn't in the header, then it's in both footers
(usually
centered for simplicity).

Does this help at all?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)