[Kevin]

Is there a way to suppress paragraph "spacing before" when a paragraph
starts at the top of a new page or column? I'm using Word 2003.
Previous discussions about this say that Word does it automatically,
but that's not happening in my documents (previous discussions were
using previous versions of Word. Has something changed?).

Thanks,
Kevin

[John McGhie]

Hi Kevin:

No, nothing has changed: Word does do it automatically, but the design of
the feature is very buggy. There's a complex set of rules to determine
whether Word suppresses space at the top of the page or not. That's the
bug. What "should" happen is that it works every time. What "does" happen
is that Word works through a decision tree to decide whether it's going to
do what it should.

Very simplistically, the rule is "If WORD threw the paragraph to the next
page, Word will suppress space above. If YOU threw the paragraph, Word will
print the space."

So: If you use a hard page break, a column break, a section break, or
anything else that you type to move the paragraph to the top of the next
page, you'll get the space.

If you use Keep Lines Together and Keep With Next in combination to persuade
Word to move the paragraph for you, it will correctly suppress the space.
You must use Keep Lines Together to prevent Word splitting a paragraph
therwise Keep With NExt cannot operate. I tend to use Keep Lines Together
on all my body text styles anyway: forcing readers to chase paragraphs from
one page to another is bad document design that belongs way in the past:
paper doesn't cost that much these days :-)

Of course, the exception is legal contracts where a single sentence may run
more than one page :-)

Word does have an option in teh Compatibility Options that allows you to
force it to sppress space above at the top of the page always. Be careful
with that one: it can result in some strange effects, and you have to set it
for each document.

One thing I do that helps is to use ONLY space below on the body text
styles. This prevents a ragged top margin because no matter ow the
paragraph gets to the top of the page, there is no space above to make it
look silly. With Headings, f course, you do need to use space above. But
generally, a Word document will require less pagination intervention if you
conevert your styles where possible to use only space below.

Hope this helps

--

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs

+61 4 1209 1410,


"Kevin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Is there a way to suppress paragraph "spacing before" when a paragraph
starts at the top of a new page or column? I'm using Word 2003.
Previous discussions about this say that Word does it automatically,
but that's not happening in my documents (previous discussions were
using previous versions of Word. Has something changed?).

Thanks,
Kevin

[Mike Starr]

I've always found it particularly frustrating that there is no documentation
about what the distinction is between the various options...

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like Word 5.x for the Mac
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like WordPerfect 5.x
Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break

How the hell do I know what those mean?? And furthermore, how do I know
what's going to happen when I make multiple selections (since they're all
check boxes).

arggh

Mike
"John McGhie" wrote in message
...
snip
Word does have an option in teh Compatibility Options that allows you to
force it to sppress space above at the top of the page always. Be careful
with that one: it can result in some strange effects, and you have to set
it
for each document.

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

FWIW, there's a KB article that purports to explain the Compatibility
Options. Let me see if I can locate it...yes, here it is: "Description of
the Compatibility options that are available in the Options dialog box in
Word 2003, Word 2002, and Word 2000" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=288792.

Its description of the options you mention is as follows:

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page: This option prevents Word from
adding extra line spacing at the top of a page. If the line spacing for the
line at the top of a page is set for more than single spacing, Word ignores
the extra spacing, so that the top margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing at the top of page like Word 5.x for the Mac:
This option prevents Word from adding extra line spacing at the top of a
page. If the line spacing for the line at the top of a page is set for more
than single line spacing, Word ignores the extra spacing, so that the top
margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing like WordPerfect 5.x: This option ensures that
the layout of a converted WordPerfect document that is formatted with
Automatic line height closely matches that of the original document.

Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break: This option
suppresses the space in a paragraph formatted with the Space Before option
that follows a hard page break or column break.

Note that "extra line spacing" is not the same as "Space Before." "Extra
line spacing" would be (as stated) anything other than Single: Double, 1.5
lines, Triple, At least, Exactly, or Multiple. Some of these spacing
settings result in space above text lines, some below, some split (see the
Compatibility Option "Don't center 'exact line height' lines"), which is why
it can be very tricky to mix Multiple spacing (including Double, Triple,
etc.) and "Exactly" spacing.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
I've always found it particularly frustrating that there is no
documentation
about what the distinction is between the various options...

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like Word 5.x for the Mac
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like WordPerfect 5.x
Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break

How the hell do I know what those mean?? And furthermore, how do I know
what's going to happen when I make multiple selections (since they're all
check boxes).

arggh

Mike
"John McGhie" wrote in message
...
snip
Word does have an option in teh Compatibility Options that allows you to
force it to sppress space above at the top of the page always. Be
careful
with that one: it can result in some strange effects, and you have to
set
it
for each document.

[Mike Starr]

Thanks for the link, Suzanne. I do find it shameful that this information
has never made it into the help file. It's been missing since Word 97
(possibly before but I wasn't skilled enough with previous versions to know
what I was missing).

Best regards

Mike
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
FWIW, there's a KB article that purports to explain the Compatibility
Options. Let me see if I can locate it...yes, here it is: "Description of
the Compatibility options that are available in the Options dialog box in
Word 2003, Word 2002, and Word 2000" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=288792.

Its description of the options you mention is as follows:

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page: This option prevents Word from
adding extra line spacing at the top of a page. If the line spacing for
the
line at the top of a page is set for more than single spacing, Word
ignores
the extra spacing, so that the top margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing at the top of page like Word 5.x for the Mac:
This option prevents Word from adding extra line spacing at the top of a
page. If the line spacing for the line at the top of a page is set for
more
than single line spacing, Word ignores the extra spacing, so that the top
margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing like WordPerfect 5.x: This option ensures that
the layout of a converted WordPerfect document that is formatted with
Automatic line height closely matches that of the original document.

Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break: This option
suppresses the space in a paragraph formatted with the Space Before option
that follows a hard page break or column break.

Note that "extra line spacing" is not the same as "Space Before." "Extra
line spacing" would be (as stated) anything other than Single: Double, 1.5
lines, Triple, At least, Exactly, or Multiple. Some of these spacing
settings result in space above text lines, some below, some split (see the
Compatibility Option "Don't center 'exact line height' lines"), which is
why
it can be very tricky to mix Multiple spacing (including Double, Triple,
etc.) and "Exactly" spacing.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
I've always found it particularly frustrating that there is no
documentation
about what the distinction is between the various options...

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like Word 5.x for the Mac
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like WordPerfect 5.x
Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break

How the hell do I know what those mean?? And furthermore, how do I know
what's going to happen when I make multiple selections (since they're
all
check boxes).

arggh

Mike
"John McGhie" wrote in message
...
snip
Word does have an option in teh Compatibility Options that allows you
to
force it to sppress space above at the top of the page always. Be
careful
with that one: it can result in some strange effects, and you have to
set
it
for each document.

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

When context-sensitive Help was removed from the app, it was a huge step
backward.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the link, Suzanne. I do find it shameful that this information
has never made it into the help file. It's been missing since Word 97
(possibly before but I wasn't skilled enough with previous versions to
know
what I was missing).

Best regards

Mike
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
FWIW, there's a KB article that purports to explain the Compatibility
Options. Let me see if I can locate it...yes, here it is: "Description
of
the Compatibility options that are available in the Options dialog box
in
Word 2003, Word 2002, and Word 2000" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=288792.

Its description of the options you mention is as follows:

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page: This option prevents Word
from
adding extra line spacing at the top of a page. If the line spacing for
the
line at the top of a page is set for more than single spacing, Word
ignores
the extra spacing, so that the top margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing at the top of page like Word 5.x for the
Mac:
This option prevents Word from adding extra line spacing at the top of a
page. If the line spacing for the line at the top of a page is set for
more
than single line spacing, Word ignores the extra spacing, so that the
top
margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing like WordPerfect 5.x: This option ensures
that
the layout of a converted WordPerfect document that is formatted with
Automatic line height closely matches that of the original document.

Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break: This option
suppresses the space in a paragraph formatted with the Space Before
option
that follows a hard page break or column break.

Note that "extra line spacing" is not the same as "Space Before." "Extra
line spacing" would be (as stated) anything other than Single: Double,
1.5
lines, Triple, At least, Exactly, or Multiple. Some of these spacing
settings result in space above text lines, some below, some split (see
the
Compatibility Option "Don't center 'exact line height' lines"), which is
why
it can be very tricky to mix Multiple spacing (including Double, Triple,
etc.) and "Exactly" spacing.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
I've always found it particularly frustrating that there is no
documentation
about what the distinction is between the various options...

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like Word 5.x for the Mac
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like WordPerfect 5.x
Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break

How the hell do I know what those mean?? And furthermore, how do I
know
what's going to happen when I make multiple selections (since they're
all
check boxes).

arggh

Mike
"John McGhie" wrote in message
...
snip
Word does have an option in teh Compatibility Options that allows
you
to
force it to sppress space above at the top of the page always. Be
careful
with that one: it can result in some strange effects, and you have
to
set
it
for each document.

[Mike Starr]

I don't think it was ever a part of the context-sensitive help, either.

Mike

--
--
Mike Starr WriteStarr Information Services
Technical Writer - Online Help Developer - Website developer
Graphic Designer - Desktop Publisher - MS Office Expert
Phone: (262) 694-1028 - Tollfree: (877) 892-1028 - Fax262) 697-6334
Email: - Web: http://www.writestarr.com
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
When context-sensitive Help was removed from the app, it was a huge step
backward.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the link, Suzanne. I do find it shameful that this
information
has never made it into the help file. It's been missing since Word 97
(possibly before but I wasn't skilled enough with previous versions to
know
what I was missing).

Best regards

Mike
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
FWIW, there's a KB article that purports to explain the Compatibility
Options. Let me see if I can locate it...yes, here it is: "Description
of
the Compatibility options that are available in the Options dialog box
in
Word 2003, Word 2002, and Word 2000" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=288792.

Its description of the options you mention is as follows:

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page: This option prevents Word
from
adding extra line spacing at the top of a page. If the line spacing
for
the
line at the top of a page is set for more than single spacing, Word
ignores
the extra spacing, so that the top margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing at the top of page like Word 5.x for the
Mac:
This option prevents Word from adding extra line spacing at the top of
a
page. If the line spacing for the line at the top of a page is set for
more
than single line spacing, Word ignores the extra spacing, so that the
top
margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing like WordPerfect 5.x: This option ensures
that
the layout of a converted WordPerfect document that is formatted with
Automatic line height closely matches that of the original document.

Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break: This option
suppresses the space in a paragraph formatted with the Space Before
option
that follows a hard page break or column break.

Note that "extra line spacing" is not the same as "Space Before."
"Extra
line spacing" would be (as stated) anything other than Single: Double,
1.5
lines, Triple, At least, Exactly, or Multiple. Some of these spacing
settings result in space above text lines, some below, some split (see
the
Compatibility Option "Don't center 'exact line height' lines"), which
is
why
it can be very tricky to mix Multiple spacing (including Double,
Triple,
etc.) and "Exactly" spacing.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
I've always found it particularly frustrating that there is no
documentation
about what the distinction is between the various options...

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like Word 5.x for the Mac
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like WordPerfect 5.x
Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break

How the hell do I know what those mean?? And furthermore, how do I
know
what's going to happen when I make multiple selections (since
they're
all
check boxes).

arggh

Mike
"John McGhie" wrote in message
...
snip
Word does have an option in teh Compatibility Options that allows
you
to
force it to sppress space above at the top of the page always. Be
careful
with that one: it can result in some strange effects, and you have
to
set
it
for each document.

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Possibly not, but there's a lot of good stuff that was.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
I don't think it was ever a part of the context-sensitive help, either.

Mike

--
--
Mike Starr WriteStarr Information Services
Technical Writer - Online Help Developer - Website developer
Graphic Designer - Desktop Publisher - MS Office Expert
Phone: (262) 694-1028 - Tollfree: (877) 892-1028 - Fax262) 697-6334
Email: - Web: http://www.writestarr.com
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
When context-sensitive Help was removed from the app, it was a huge step
backward.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the link, Suzanne. I do find it shameful that this
information
has never made it into the help file. It's been missing since Word 97
(possibly before but I wasn't skilled enough with previous versions to
know
what I was missing).

Best regards

Mike
"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
FWIW, there's a KB article that purports to explain the
Compatibility
Options. Let me see if I can locate it...yes, here it is:
"Description
of
the Compatibility options that are available in the Options dialog
box
in
Word 2003, Word 2002, and Word 2000" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=288792.

Its description of the options you mention is as follows:

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page: This option prevents
Word
from
adding extra line spacing at the top of a page. If the line spacing
for
the
line at the top of a page is set for more than single spacing, Word
ignores
the extra spacing, so that the top margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing at the top of page like Word 5.x for the
Mac:
This option prevents Word from adding extra line spacing at the top
of
a
page. If the line spacing for the line at the top of a page is set
for
more
than single line spacing, Word ignores the extra spacing, so that
the
top
margin does not increase.

Suppress extra line spacing like WordPerfect 5.x: This option
ensures
that
the layout of a converted WordPerfect document that is formatted
with
Automatic line height closely matches that of the original document.

Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break: This option
suppresses the space in a paragraph formatted with the Space Before
option
that follows a hard page break or column break.

Note that "extra line spacing" is not the same as "Space Before."
"Extra
line spacing" would be (as stated) anything other than Single:
Double,
1.5
lines, Triple, At least, Exactly, or Multiple. Some of these spacing
settings result in space above text lines, some below, some split
(see
the
Compatibility Option "Don't center 'exact line height' lines"),
which
is
why
it can be very tricky to mix Multiple spacing (including Double,
Triple,
etc.) and "Exactly" spacing.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup
so
all may benefit.

"Mike Starr" wrote in message
...
I've always found it particularly frustrating that there is no
documentation
about what the distinction is between the various options...

Suppress extra line spacing at top of page
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like Word 5.x for the
Mac
Suppress extra line spacing at top of page like WordPerfect 5.x
Suppress Space Before after a hard page or column break

How the hell do I know what those mean?? And furthermore, how do
I
know
what's going to happen when I make multiple selections (since
they're
all
check boxes).

arggh

Mike
"John McGhie" wrote in message
...
snip
Word does have an option in teh Compatibility Options that
allows
you
to
force it to sppress space above at the top of the page always.
Be
careful
with that one: it can result in some strange effects, and you
have
to
set
it
for each document.