Hi,

I'm laying out a long report (~120 pages) in Word and would like to set
up what I call "side boxes", though I don't know the official
typographical name for them. For an example of what I'm talking about,
look at this document:
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2..._chapter_5.pdf
on page 158 (11), look at Box 5.3.

I will probably have 20 boxes in the document overall.

So, I have a couple of questions on how to set this up.
1) Would you recommend "floating" the boxes, and if so, how? I would
love something similar to Latex, where I could just place the box in
the text, and Word would move the box up or down on the page as
necessary and flow text around it, filling in above or below as
necessary. However, I'd also want to be able to reference the box
numbers with cross-references.

2) For now, I have set up the boxes as two styles: 1 style for the
heading and box title, and another style for the box text - these both
have background shading, borders, and different fonts to set the box
off from the rest of the text.

This seems to work ok except for tables - when I insert a table into
the middle of the box text style (which has shading and borders), the
box text style stops and the table is left in the middle, without the
shading or borders of the surrounding style. How can I rectify this?
For example, if I place a photo inline it seems to work fine, but
a table does not - is it some sort of magical object?

It kinda looks like this
----------------
| box text |
| box text |
----------------
--------
|table |
--------
----------------
| box text |
| box text |

I'd like the table to be inside the box, if that makes sense.

3) What is the official "typographical" name for these things?

thanks,
karl

See: http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/MarginalText.htm

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm laying out a long report (~120 pages) in Word and would like to
set
up what I call "side boxes", though I don't know the official
typographical name for them. For an example of what I'm talking
about,
look at this document:
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2..._chapter_5.pdf
on page 158 (11), look at Box 5.3.

I will probably have 20 boxes in the document overall.

So, I have a couple of questions on how to set this up.
1) Would you recommend "floating" the boxes, and if so, how? I
would
love something similar to Latex, where I could just place the box in
the text, and Word would move the box up or down on the page as
necessary and flow text around it, filling in above or below as
necessary. However, I'd also want to be able to reference the box
numbers with cross-references.

2) For now, I have set up the boxes as two styles: 1 style for the
heading and box title, and another style for the box text - these
both
have background shading, borders, and different fonts to set the box
off from the rest of the text.

This seems to work ok except for tables - when I insert a table into
the middle of the box text style (which has shading and borders),
the
box text style stops and the table is left in the middle, without
the
shading or borders of the surrounding style. How can I rectify
this?
For example, if I place a photo inline it seems to work fine, but
a table does not - is it some sort of magical object?

It kinda looks like this
----------------
| box text |
| box text |
----------------
--------
|table |
--------
----------------
| box text |
| box text |

I'd like the table to be inside the box, if that makes sense.

3) What is the official "typographical" name for these things?

thanks,
karl

What you describe in your text is usually handled with textboxes or frames;
but the example in your link is simply a table.



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm laying out a long report (~120 pages) in Word and would like to set
up what I call "side boxes", though I don't know the official
typographical name for them. For an example of what I'm talking about,
look at this document:
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2..._chapter_5.pdf
on page 158 (11), look at Box 5.3.

I will probably have 20 boxes in the document overall.

So, I have a couple of questions on how to set this up.
1) Would you recommend "floating" the boxes, and if so, how? I would
love something similar to Latex, where I could just place the box in
the text, and Word would move the box up or down on the page as
necessary and flow text around it, filling in above or below as
necessary. However, I'd also want to be able to reference the box
numbers with cross-references.

2) For now, I have set up the boxes as two styles: 1 style for the
heading and box title, and another style for the box text - these both
have background shading, borders, and different fonts to set the box
off from the rest of the text.

This seems to work ok except for tables - when I insert a table into
the middle of the box text style (which has shading and borders), the
box text style stops and the table is left in the middle, without the
shading or borders of the surrounding style. How can I rectify this?
For example, if I place a photo inline it seems to work fine, but
a table does not - is it some sort of magical object?

It kinda looks like this
----------------
| box text |
| box text |
----------------
--------
|table |
--------
----------------
| box text |
| box text |

I'd like the table to be inside the box, if that makes sense.

3) What is the official "typographical" name for these things?

thanks,
karl

The article Stefan referenced offers one way to create these marginal boxes.
They are neither true sidebars nor "pull quotes" (though both are similar).
I don't know that there is a standard typographical term for them. FWIW,
Word 2007 will make it a lot easier to create page elements of this type.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
...
See: http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/MarginalText.htm

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm laying out a long report (~120 pages) in Word and would like to
set
up what I call "side boxes", though I don't know the official
typographical name for them. For an example of what I'm talking
about,
look at this document:
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2..._chapter_5.pdf
on page 158 (11), look at Box 5.3.

I will probably have 20 boxes in the document overall.

So, I have a couple of questions on how to set this up.
1) Would you recommend "floating" the boxes, and if so, how? I
would
love something similar to Latex, where I could just place the box in
the text, and Word would move the box up or down on the page as
necessary and flow text around it, filling in above or below as
necessary. However, I'd also want to be able to reference the box
numbers with cross-references.

2) For now, I have set up the boxes as two styles: 1 style for the
heading and box title, and another style for the box text - these
both
have background shading, borders, and different fonts to set the box
off from the rest of the text.

This seems to work ok except for tables - when I insert a table into
the middle of the box text style (which has shading and borders),
the
box text style stops and the table is left in the middle, without
the
shading or borders of the surrounding style. How can I rectify
this?
For example, if I place a photo inline it seems to work fine, but
a table does not - is it some sort of magical object?

It kinda looks like this
----------------
| box text |
| box text |
----------------
--------
|table |
--------
----------------
| box text |
| box text |

I'd like the table to be inside the box, if that makes sense.

3) What is the official "typographical" name for these things?

thanks,
karl

Hi Suzanne and Stefan,

Thanks for the reference - in fact I was using that article last night
to set up pull quotes in the margin, I didn't think about using it for
these text boxes within the flow of the text. Thanks so much - that is
a beautiful idea (to use a style to place the text in the margin!)

However, I'm still not totally sure on the best way to solve this
problem of having a table inside my box.

I have done a test and set up a style I called "box". This style
creates a frame, that is vertically located at the bottom of the margin
and shaded at 5%.

However, if I create a few paragraphs to put in this box, then add a
table whose width is less than the total margin, then a few more
paragraphs afterwards and put the whole thing as style "box", then
there are weird white spaces at the side margins of the table and the
borders of the frame disappear (just at the table), as in the cheesy
ascii diagram I made above. On the other hand, if I place a picture
inline in the text, the shading flows around the picture w/o problems.
So it seems like there is something special with tables and background
shading and borders. It is possible to put ANYTHING to the left or
right of a table?

Finally, and I think I know the answer to this, if I want to have
bullet points or headings or any other styles within the box, I have to
create a NEW style, right? I guess this would require nested styles
otherwise.

You can "wrap" tables in Word 2000 and above, but what this effectively does
is insert the table in a frame, so you can't do that if the table is already
in a frame; it has to be in the ordinary text layer.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Suzanne and Stefan,

Thanks for the reference - in fact I was using that article last night
to set up pull quotes in the margin, I didn't think about using it for
these text boxes within the flow of the text. Thanks so much - that is
a beautiful idea (to use a style to place the text in the margin!)

However, I'm still not totally sure on the best way to solve this
problem of having a table inside my box.

I have done a test and set up a style I called "box". This style
creates a frame, that is vertically located at the bottom of the margin
and shaded at 5%.

However, if I create a few paragraphs to put in this box, then add a
table whose width is less than the total margin, then a few more
paragraphs afterwards and put the whole thing as style "box", then
there are weird white spaces at the side margins of the table and the
borders of the frame disappear (just at the table), as in the cheesy
ascii diagram I made above. On the other hand, if I place a picture
inline in the text, the shading flows around the picture w/o problems.
So it seems like there is something special with tables and background
shading and borders. It is possible to put ANYTHING to the left or
right of a table?

Finally, and I think I know the answer to this, if I want to have
bullet points or headings or any other styles within the box, I have to
create a NEW style, right? I guess this would require nested styles
otherwise.

Thanks for the reply... but even if I'm not within a frame, having the
table "wrap" does not solve the problem - the borders and shading of
the surrounding paragraphs are still lost when you get to the table.

I also just tried out the frame solution on the larger document and but
found more problems.

1) Some of my boxes span multiple pages. And I think frames cannot
span multiple pages. Is there any way around this, or is floating
objects now out of the question?

2) In addition, the frames ignore the footnotes at the bottom of the
page and cover them up, and there doesn't seem to be an option to place
the frame just above the footnotes.

I think I'll go back to having this as an inline style not within a
frame, but it still doesn't solve my table problem. Any ideas on how
to get a table to have borders and shading like the paragraphs around
it, especially if the table is not as wide as those paragraphs?
Or do I have to take a screenshot of the table and reinsert it as an
image? Any other work-arounds?



One more quick question: Where is the help for MS word located? I
found the following on Office Online help:
--
You can position, or place, a frame (frame: A container that you can
resize and position anywhere on the page. To position text or graphics
that contain comments, footnotes, endnotes, or certain fields, you must
use a frame instead of a text box.) by dragging it, or you can align it
with a reference point, such as a paragraph, page, margin, or newspaper
column. A frame pushes the surrounding text aside. The frame is always
anchored to the closest paragraph and appears on the same page as the
paragraph it's anchored to.

Select the frame, right-click, and then click Format Frame.
In the Horizontal and Vertical sections, click the options you want.
--

I love that. "click the options you want". What if I want to know
what the options mean? For example, for vertical placement, what does
inside relative to margin mean?
Is there a more detailed reference guide provided with Word 2003, or do
I have to buy a 3rd party book?

thanks for any help you can give!

1. A wrapped table is the only object which can span pages in Word
(and it doesn't work in all versions).

2. I have no suggestion for this one. :-(

3. (The table problem) To solve the border problem with tables in
frames, you could use a text box, whose borders would enclose all of
the text box contents (text paragraphs as well as tables).
Alternatively, use a frame but mimic table formatting by using tab
stops, but then you would of course have to make sure that text in
"cells" are limited to a single line.

4. (Placement options) Inside relative to margin for vertical
placement means that the bottom of the frame aligns with the bottom
margin (even-numbered pages) or that the top of the frame aligns with
the top margin (odd-numbered pages).

Similarly for horizontal positions:

Horizontal position: Inside relative to margin on right (odd-numbered
pages) means the following:

|---------|
| |
| | | |
| | | |
| |
| Left margin here
-----------

Horizontal position: inside relative to margin for left (even-numbered
pages) means the following:

|---------|
| |
| | | |
| | | |
| |
| Right margin here
-----------

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the reply... but even if I'm not within a frame, having
the
table "wrap" does not solve the problem - the borders and shading of
the surrounding paragraphs are still lost when you get to the table.

I also just tried out the frame solution on the larger document and
but
found more problems.

1) Some of my boxes span multiple pages. And I think frames cannot
span multiple pages. Is there any way around this, or is floating
objects now out of the question?

2) In addition, the frames ignore the footnotes at the bottom of the
page and cover them up, and there doesn't seem to be an option to
place
the frame just above the footnotes.

I think I'll go back to having this as an inline style not within a
frame, but it still doesn't solve my table problem. Any ideas on
how
to get a table to have borders and shading like the paragraphs
around
it, especially if the table is not as wide as those paragraphs?
Or do I have to take a screenshot of the table and reinsert it as an
image? Any other work-arounds?



One more quick question: Where is the help for MS word located? I
found the following on Office Online help:
--
You can position, or place, a frame (frame: A container that you can
resize and position anywhere on the page. To position text or
graphics
that contain comments, footnotes, endnotes, or certain fields, you
must
use a frame instead of a text box.) by dragging it, or you can align
it
with a reference point, such as a paragraph, page, margin, or
newspaper
column. A frame pushes the surrounding text aside. The frame is
always
anchored to the closest paragraph and appears on the same page as
the
paragraph it's anchored to.

Select the frame, right-click, and then click Format Frame.
In the Horizontal and Vertical sections, click the options you want.
--

I love that. "click the options you want". What if I want to know
what the options mean? For example, for vertical placement, what
does
inside relative to margin mean?
Is there a more detailed reference guide provided with Word 2003, or
do
I have to buy a 3rd party book?

thanks for any help you can give!

Ok, thanks Stefan. The text box solution does work - but if I convert
the text box to a frame the problem re-appears. So it really has to do
with some fundamental magic about tables that allows them to behave as
I want inside of a text box but not inside a frame. Ug.

In any case, because of the problem of the frames overlapping my
footnotes, I've decided to simply to have my boxes inline and make the
table always as wide as the box; it ain't that pretty but it's the best
solution I've found.

It looks like someone else ran into this a while ago:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...72fde9495d6423

Thanks for the description of the frame placement options. Too bad
Word there isn't documentation that comes with Word 2003 that explains
this stuff, or am I not looking in the right place?

thanks,
karl

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, thanks Stefan. The text box solution does work - but if I
convert
the text box to a frame the problem re-appears. So it really has to
do
with some fundamental magic about tables that allows them to behave
as
I want inside of a text box but not inside a frame. Ug.


I believe the problem with frames is that they don't really have any
borders: "frame borders" are actually applied to the *text* in the
frame, and inserting a table messes that up. So this can't be fixed
(unless you can use text boxes, instead).

In any case, because of the problem of the frames overlapping my
footnotes, I've decided to simply to have my boxes inline and make
the
table always as wide as the box; it ain't that pretty but it's the
best
solution I've found.


I'm glad you did find a workable solution (even if it isn't ideal).

It looks like someone else ran into this a while ago:

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...72fde9495d6423

Thanks for the description of the frame placement options. Too bad
Word there isn't documentation that comes with Word 2003 that
explains
this stuff, or am I not looking in the right place?


Clearly, Word 2003 context help could be better (hopefully it will be
improved in the next version).

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP