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Elmer Elmer is offline
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Posts: 4
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

After having created a text box, if you right click on the box, a
"Format Text Box" window appears among the drop-down choices. One of
the tabs on this window is actually called "Text Box," and on this tab,
there is a choice to "Convert to Frame."

What does "Convert to Frame" actually achieve (aside from making the
text box no longer editable--believe me, I tried)? What exactly *is* a
"Frame," and why would a WORD user want to convert a Text Box to one?

Another question: What in the world does "Maintain Aspect Ratio" mean
when applied to a Text Box?

WORD is so much more complex than most WORD users ever think!

Thanks.

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Jezebel Jezebel is offline
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Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

Differences between textboxes and frames --

- Frames are part of the main story, so the content can appear in the TOC
and outline. Textboxes are a separate story.

- Textboxes can be linked to each other so text flows from one to the other.

- Textboxes can be formatted in more sophisticated ways. A frame is just a
fancy way to format a paragraph.


'Maintain apsect ratio' means that if you resize the object, the proportions
of its size (ie width to height) remains the same.




"Elmer" wrote in message
oups.com...
After having created a text box, if you right click on the box, a
"Format Text Box" window appears among the drop-down choices. One of
the tabs on this window is actually called "Text Box," and on this tab,
there is a choice to "Convert to Frame."

What does "Convert to Frame" actually achieve (aside from making the
text box no longer editable--believe me, I tried)? What exactly *is* a
"Frame," and why would a WORD user want to convert a Text Box to one?

Another question: What in the world does "Maintain Aspect Ratio" mean
when applied to a Text Box?

WORD is so much more complex than most WORD users ever think!

Thanks.



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Suzanne S. Barnhill Suzanne S. Barnhill is offline
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Posts: 33,624
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

To add to what Jezebel has said, frames are older than text boxes. When MS
introduced text boxes, they were expected to replace frames, and so Frame
was removed from the Insert menu (if you use frames often, you'll want to
put it back). As it turned out, however, text boxes do NOT replace frames
for several important purposes. The times when you need a frame instead of a
text box are specified in the Knowledge Base article "WD2000: General
Information About Floating Objects" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=268713. As Jezebel points out, the most
important of these is for any text that you want Word to be able to "see"
for purposes of a cross-reference, a table of contents, a table of figures,
or an index. Which is why it is especially frustrating that, if you use
Insert | Caption with a floating (wrapped) object selected, Word puts the
caption in a text box (you'll need to either convert that to a frame or pull
the text out, change the wrapping on the figure to In Line With Text, and
insert both figure and caption in a single frame).

Some differences between frames and text boxes:

1. The text in a text box is always in the Normal style (though you can
change it to some other style after inserting the text box). Since a frame
can be included in a paragraph style, you can use any style, and you can
insert the frame just by applying the style; for one use of this, see
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/MarginalText.htm.

2. Both frames and text boxes have a border by default. To remove the border
from a frame, you must use Format | Borders and Shading | None; to remove
the border from a text box, you must use Format Text Box | Colors and Lines
| No Line. If you want a border on a frame, you can have it on all or
specified sides, and you can use different borders (different style, weight,
color) on different sides; a text box border is all or nothing, a box.

3. Frames can be positioned almost as precisely as text boxes (relative to
page, column, margin, paragraph), but their wrapping limited to None
(inline) and Around (wrapped). Wrapping on text boxes can use any of the
styles available for any AutoShape or drawing object (Behind Text, In Front
of Text, Square, Tight, etc.). What this means in practical terms is that
you need a text box if you want to layer text over a picture, but a frame is
what you need for a figure and its caption, which you are not likely to want
to put in front of or behind text but do want to keep together and make
visible to the Table of Figures.

4. Text boxes, since they are in the drawing layer, are not visible in
Normal view. Frames are, but their positioning is not; that is, if they are
wrapped, they will still appear inline.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Elmer" wrote in message
oups.com...
After having created a text box, if you right click on the box, a
"Format Text Box" window appears among the drop-down choices. One of
the tabs on this window is actually called "Text Box," and on this tab,
there is a choice to "Convert to Frame."

What does "Convert to Frame" actually achieve (aside from making the
text box no longer editable--believe me, I tried)? What exactly *is* a
"Frame," and why would a WORD user want to convert a Text Box to one?

Another question: What in the world does "Maintain Aspect Ratio" mean
when applied to a Text Box?

WORD is so much more complex than most WORD users ever think!

Thanks.


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Elmer Elmer is offline
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Posts: 4
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:

Which is why it is especially frustrating that, if you use
Insert | Caption with a floating (wrapped) object selected, Word puts the
caption in a text box (you'll need to either convert that to a frame or pull
the text out, change the wrapping on the figure to In Line With Text, and
insert both figure and caption in a single frame).


While you (and Jezebel) have been invaluable in this mini-lesson, the
above is so VERY recondite, I wonder if more than three people in the
entire world, the author of WORD included, knows exactly what it means
!

Some differences between frames and text boxes:

1. The text in a text box is always in the Normal style (though you can
change it to some other style after inserting the text box). Since a frame
can be included in a paragraph style, you can use any style, and you can
insert the frame just by applying the style; for one use of this, see
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/MarginalText.htm.

2. Both frames and text boxes have a border by default. To remove the border
from a frame, you must use Format | Borders and Shading | None; to remove
the border from a text box, you must use Format Text Box | Colors and Lines
| No Line. If you want a border on a frame, you can have it on all or
specified sides, and you can use different borders (different style, weight,
color) on different sides; a text box border is all or nothing, a box.


Ah, now this is a difference my pea brain can "wrap itself" around.

3. Frames can be positioned almost as precisely as text boxes (relative to
page, column, margin, paragraph), but their wrapping limited to None
(inline) and Around (wrapped). Wrapping on text boxes can use any of the
styles available for any AutoShape or drawing object (Behind Text, In Front
of Text, Square, Tight, etc.). What this means in practical terms is that
you need a text box if you want to layer text over a picture, but a frame is
what you need for a figure and its caption, which you are not likely to want
to put in front of or behind text but do want to keep together and make
visible to the Table of Figures.


Back to tumbleweeds here. By "wrapping" do you mean "word wrapping?"

4. Text boxes, since they are in the drawing layer, are not visible in
Normal view. Frames are, but their positioning is not; that is, if they are
wrapped, they will still appear inline.


Tumbling along with 'dem tumbling tumbleweeds....

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Elmer Elmer is offline
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Posts: 4
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

Jezebel wrote:
Differences between textboxes and frames --

- Frames are part of the main story, so the content can appear in the TOC
and outline. Textboxes are a separate story.

- Textboxes can be linked to each other so text flows from one to the other.


How does one bring this about, you Jezebel, you?

- Textboxes can be formatted in more sophisticated ways. A frame is just a
fancy way to format a paragraph.


Then how are they different from, say, "Borders?"

'Maintain apsect ratio' means that if you resize the object, the proportions
of its size (ie width to height) remains the same.


Ah, thanks!



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Graham Mayor Graham Mayor is offline
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Posts: 19,312
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

Elmer wrote:
Jezebel wrote:


- Textboxes can be linked to each other so text flows from one to
the other.


How does one bring this about, you Jezebel, you?


It might help if you actually read Word help on text boxes.

- Textboxes can be formatted in more sophisticated ways. A frame is
just a fancy way to format a paragraph.


Then how are they different from, say, "Borders?"


A border is a different concept and is essentially a decorative outline.
Both text boxes and frames can be used with or without borders.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



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Jay Freedman Jay Freedman is offline
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Posts: 9,854
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

On 13 Aug 2006 04:42:28 -0700, "Elmer" wrote:

Jezebel wrote:
Differences between textboxes and frames --

- Frames are part of the main story, so the content can appear in the TOC
and outline. Textboxes are a separate story.

- Textboxes can be linked to each other so text flows from one to the other.


How does one bring this about, you Jezebel, you?


Draw two or more text boxes (not necessarily on the same page). With
the cursor in the first text box, click the Create Text Box Link
button on the Text Box toolbar. The cursor changes to a small cup.
Move the cursor to any other text box (not necessarily the next one),
where the cursor cup changes to "pouring" position, and click. Now any
text that overflows from the first box will go into the second one.
You can continue to link more boxes into the series. This is useful
for a newsletter or magazine layout, where stories continue somewhere
other than onto the next page.

- Textboxes can be formatted in more sophisticated ways. A frame is just a
fancy way to format a paragraph.


Then how are they different from, say, "Borders?"


A frame is very much like a border, in that both of them are paragraph
attributes that can be part of a paragraph style definition (whereas a
text box can't be part of a style, although you can get a similar
functionality by defining an AutoText entry that consists of a text
box). The main difference is that they're controlled by different
dialogs.

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so all may benefit.
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Jay Freedman Jay Freedman is offline
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Posts: 9,854
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

On 13 Aug 2006 04:40:11 -0700, "Elmer" wrote:

Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:

Which is why it is especially frustrating that, if you use
Insert | Caption with a floating (wrapped) object selected, Word puts the
caption in a text box (you'll need to either convert that to a frame or pull
the text out, change the wrapping on the figure to In Line With Text, and
insert both figure and caption in a single frame).


While you (and Jezebel) have been invaluable in this mini-lesson, the
above is so VERY recondite, I wonder if more than three people in the
entire world, the author of WORD included, knows exactly what it means
!


It may be recondite, but it becomes painfully obvious when you make a
document with lots of floating figures with captions, and you find
that you can't make a Table of Figures to go with the Table of
Contents.

I can assure you that there are at least three dozen people who
understand this, even if the Word developers don't. :-)

Some differences between frames and text boxes:

1. The text in a text box is always in the Normal style (though you can
change it to some other style after inserting the text box). Since a frame
can be included in a paragraph style, you can use any style, and you can
insert the frame just by applying the style; for one use of this, see
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/MarginalText.htm.

2. Both frames and text boxes have a border by default. To remove the border
from a frame, you must use Format | Borders and Shading | None; to remove
the border from a text box, you must use Format Text Box | Colors and Lines
| No Line. If you want a border on a frame, you can have it on all or
specified sides, and you can use different borders (different style, weight,
color) on different sides; a text box border is all or nothing, a box.


Ah, now this is a difference my pea brain can "wrap itself" around.

3. Frames can be positioned almost as precisely as text boxes (relative to
page, column, margin, paragraph), but their wrapping limited to None
(inline) and Around (wrapped). Wrapping on text boxes can use any of the
styles available for any AutoShape or drawing object (Behind Text, In Front
of Text, Square, Tight, etc.). What this means in practical terms is that
you need a text box if you want to layer text over a picture, but a frame is
what you need for a figure and its caption, which you are not likely to want
to put in front of or behind text but do want to keep together and make
visible to the Table of Figures.


Back to tumbleweeds here. By "wrapping" do you mean "word wrapping?"


No, this is what the dialogs call "text wrapping", meaning how frames
or text boxes push regular text out of the way. In contrast, "word
wrapping" refers to how text inside the box flows to the next line. (I
didn't make up these terms, and they wouldn't have been my choice.)


4. Text boxes, since they are in the drawing layer, are not visible in
Normal view. Frames are, but their positioning is not; that is, if they are
wrapped, they will still appear inline.


Tumbling along with 'dem tumbling tumbleweeds....


If you tumble long enough, you might pick up something useful!

--
Regards,
Jay Freedman
Microsoft Word MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so all may benefit.
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Jezebel Jezebel is offline
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Posts: 1,384
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"


Back to tumbleweeds here. By "wrapping" do you mean "word wrapping?"


Display the formatting dialog for a textbox (or any graphic object) -- on
the Layout tab you'll see a set of options headed 'Wrapping style'. Is that
enough guidance for you, or would you prefer a hammer and chisel to the
cranium?



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Suzanne S. Barnhill Suzanne S. Barnhill is offline
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Posts: 33,624
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

As Graham, Jezebel, and Jay have suggested in their various ways, it would
probably help you to understand what I've written if you would read Word's
Help and familiarize yourself with its terminology. I can also suggest this
MSKB article: "WD2000: General Information About Floating Objects" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=268713. You might also see
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/DrwGrphcs/DrawLayer.htm

In Word 97 and earlier, MS used the term "float[ing] over text" to describe
objects in the drawing layer. When you inserted a picture, say, using Insert
| Picture | From File, the "Float over text" check box was checked by
default, and you had to clear it to insert the picture "inline." A
"floating" picture by default had "square" wrapping; other options were
Tight, Through, None, and Top and Bottom. You also had a choice of wrapping
text to both sides, left, right, or "largest side."

Word 2000 made significant changes in the way inserted/pasted pictures were
handled. The default "wrapping style" became In Line With Text (previously
called "inline"). An inline graphic is treated the same as text, that is,
rather like a large font character. Usually you would want it in a paragraph
by itself, with line spacing set to Auto; users come to grief inserting
pictures into paragraphs with Exact line spacing (so that only a tiny slice
of the bottom of the picture is displayed).

The new inline default confused many veteran Word users, too; previously
able to drag pictures freely around the page, they now found they could move
pictures only where there was already text. In order to solve this problem,
it is necessary to change the wrapping. In Word 2000 and above, when you
click on a graphic, the Picture toolbar is displayed. One of the buttons on
the toolbar is Text Wrapping (dog icon); this opens a menu allowing you to
change the wrapping of the object from In Line With Text to Square, Tight,
Behind Text, In Front of Text, etc.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Elmer" wrote in message
ps.com...
Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:

Which is why it is especially frustrating that, if you use
Insert | Caption with a floating (wrapped) object selected, Word puts

the
caption in a text box (you'll need to either convert that to a frame or

pull
the text out, change the wrapping on the figure to In Line With Text,

and
insert both figure and caption in a single frame).


While you (and Jezebel) have been invaluable in this mini-lesson, the
above is so VERY recondite, I wonder if more than three people in the
entire world, the author of WORD included, knows exactly what it means
!

Some differences between frames and text boxes:

1. The text in a text box is always in the Normal style (though you can
change it to some other style after inserting the text box). Since a

frame
can be included in a paragraph style, you can use any style, and you can
insert the frame just by applying the style; for one use of this, see
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/MarginalText.htm.

2. Both frames and text boxes have a border by default. To remove the

border
from a frame, you must use Format | Borders and Shading | None; to

remove
the border from a text box, you must use Format Text Box | Colors and

Lines
| No Line. If you want a border on a frame, you can have it on all or
specified sides, and you can use different borders (different style,

weight,
color) on different sides; a text box border is all or nothing, a box.


Ah, now this is a difference my pea brain can "wrap itself" around.

3. Frames can be positioned almost as precisely as text boxes (relative

to
page, column, margin, paragraph), but their wrapping limited to None
(inline) and Around (wrapped). Wrapping on text boxes can use any of the
styles available for any AutoShape or drawing object (Behind Text, In

Front
of Text, Square, Tight, etc.). What this means in practical terms is

that
you need a text box if you want to layer text over a picture, but a

frame is
what you need for a figure and its caption, which you are not likely to

want
to put in front of or behind text but do want to keep together and make
visible to the Table of Figures.


Back to tumbleweeds here. By "wrapping" do you mean "word wrapping?"

4. Text boxes, since they are in the drawing layer, are not visible in
Normal view. Frames are, but their positioning is not; that is, if they

are
wrapped, they will still appear inline.


Tumbling along with 'dem tumbling tumbleweeds....




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Elmer Elmer is offline
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Posts: 4
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
As Graham, Jezebel, and Jay have suggested in their various ways, it would
probably help you to understand what I've written if you would read Word's
Help and familiarize yourself with its terminology. I can also suggest this
MSKB article: "WD2000: General Information About Floating Objects" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=268713. You might also see
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/DrwGrphcs/DrawLayer.htm


Indeed, as someone who has used WORD as a word-processing tool since
1994, I'm versed enough to be aware that I cannot understand the
connotations WORD gives to various functions. (I tend to think there's
something to be said for one's being aware of one's own ignorance
..) Every time I have posted over the last dozen + years on a
MVP-associated forum, Ms. Barnhill, believe me, I *have* read the
articles MVPs have referred me to.

As the below and no doubt excellent explanation illustrates, WORD's
more complex functions (for the publishing industry? advertising
industry? which industry, exactly, has always been something of a
mystery to me) rely heavily on a user's ability to understand
connotative language.

Although I have a Master's in English, from a university that doesn't
advertise on matchbooks, my master's is in literature. Perhaps a
master's in technical writing would have enabled me to truly understand
(and profit from) WORD. In any event, thank you very much for the help
this weekend and (under other online pseudonyms) in the past.

In Word 97 and earlier, MS used the term "float[ing] over text" to describe
objects in the drawing layer. When you inserted a picture, say, using Insert
| Picture | From File, the "Float over text" check box was checked by
default, and you had to clear it to insert the picture "inline." A
"floating" picture by default had "square" wrapping; other options were
Tight, Through, None, and Top and Bottom. You also had a choice of wrapping
text to both sides, left, right, or "largest side."

Word 2000 made significant changes in the way inserted/pasted pictures were
handled. The default "wrapping style" became In Line With Text (previously
called "inline"). An inline graphic is treated the same as text, that is,
rather like a large font character. Usually you would want it in a paragraph
by itself, with line spacing set to Auto; users come to grief inserting
pictures into paragraphs with Exact line spacing (so that only a tiny slice
of the bottom of the picture is displayed).

The new inline default confused many veteran Word users, too; previously
able to drag pictures freely around the page, they now found they could move
pictures only where there was already text. In order to solve this problem,
it is necessary to change the wrapping. In Word 2000 and above, when you
click on a graphic, the Picture toolbar is displayed. One of the buttons on
the toolbar is Text Wrapping (dog icon); this opens a menu allowing you to
change the wrapping of the object from In Line With Text to Square, Tight,
Behind Text, In Front of Text, etc.


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Suzanne S. Barnhill Suzanne S. Barnhill is offline
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Posts: 33,624
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

My master's is in Latin; perhaps that makes it easier for me to acquire
another foreign language. g

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Elmer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Suzanne S. Barnhill wrote:
As Graham, Jezebel, and Jay have suggested in their various ways, it

would
probably help you to understand what I've written if you would read

Word's
Help and familiarize yourself with its terminology. I can also suggest

this
MSKB article: "WD2000: General Information About Floating Objects" at
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=268713. You might also see
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/DrwGrphcs/DrawLayer.htm


Indeed, as someone who has used WORD as a word-processing tool since
1994, I'm versed enough to be aware that I cannot understand the
connotations WORD gives to various functions. (I tend to think there's
something to be said for one's being aware of one's own ignorance
.) Every time I have posted over the last dozen + years on a
MVP-associated forum, Ms. Barnhill, believe me, I *have* read the
articles MVPs have referred me to.

As the below and no doubt excellent explanation illustrates, WORD's
more complex functions (for the publishing industry? advertising
industry? which industry, exactly, has always been something of a
mystery to me) rely heavily on a user's ability to understand
connotative language.

Although I have a Master's in English, from a university that doesn't
advertise on matchbooks, my master's is in literature. Perhaps a
master's in technical writing would have enabled me to truly understand
(and profit from) WORD. In any event, thank you very much for the help
this weekend and (under other online pseudonyms) in the past.

In Word 97 and earlier, MS used the term "float[ing] over text" to

describe
objects in the drawing layer. When you inserted a picture, say, using

Insert
| Picture | From File, the "Float over text" check box was checked by
default, and you had to clear it to insert the picture "inline." A
"floating" picture by default had "square" wrapping; other options were
Tight, Through, None, and Top and Bottom. You also had a choice of

wrapping
text to both sides, left, right, or "largest side."

Word 2000 made significant changes in the way inserted/pasted pictures

were
handled. The default "wrapping style" became In Line With Text

(previously
called "inline"). An inline graphic is treated the same as text, that

is,
rather like a large font character. Usually you would want it in a

paragraph
by itself, with line spacing set to Auto; users come to grief inserting
pictures into paragraphs with Exact line spacing (so that only a tiny

slice
of the bottom of the picture is displayed).

The new inline default confused many veteran Word users, too; previously
able to drag pictures freely around the page, they now found they could

move
pictures only where there was already text. In order to solve this

problem,
it is necessary to change the wrapping. In Word 2000 and above, when you
click on a graphic, the Picture toolbar is displayed. One of the buttons

on
the toolbar is Text Wrapping (dog icon); this opens a menu allowing you

to
change the wrapping of the object from In Line With Text to Square,

Tight,
Behind Text, In Front of Text, etc.



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Cindy M. Cindy M. is offline
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Posts: 2,416
Default Arcane Question @ Text Boxes & "Frames"

Hi Elmer,

Which is why it is especially frustrating that, if you use
Insert | Caption with a floating (wrapped) object selected, Word puts the
caption in a text box (you'll need to either convert that to a frame or pull
the text out, change the wrapping on the figure to In Line With Text, and
insert both figure and caption in a single frame).


While you (and Jezebel) have been invaluable in this mini-lesson, the
above is so VERY recondite, I wonder if more than three people in the
entire world, the author of WORD included, knows exactly what it means
!

Well, I make four... :-)

Cindy Meister

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