What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED? I
am so frustrated................

It can vary by computer. But, this is what I do:

1. Open Windows Explorer, and navigate to the files you want copied. Select
the files, then press Ctrl+C to copy them to the clipboard.

2. In the list of folders, right-click on the CD drive and choose Paste.

3. Repeat #1 and #2 as needed.

4. Once all of the needed files have been thus designated for copying to the
CD drive, right-click the CD drive and choose Write these files to CD.

Note: you can drag and drop, if you prefer, rather than using the steps 1-3
outlined here.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
http://www.herbtyson.com
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"Mayor Mae" Mayor wrote in message
...
What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have
to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files
message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED?
I
am so frustrated................

You need to post your question in the proper Windows XP newsgroup. This has
nothing to do with Word.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Mayor Mae" Mayor wrote in message
...
What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have
to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files
message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED?
I
am so frustrated................

If you want to be able to use your documents, when working within Word, act
as if your removable media drives do not exist! (This applies to floppy
drives, CDRW/CDR, flash drives or DVDR drives as well as any other kind of
removable media drives.)
Don't use Word to:
Open a document on removable media
Print a document on a removable media
Edit a document on a removable media
Save a document to a removable media (not even a copy)

Word regularly trashes documents on removable media drives!

Instead, work on the document using your hard drive. Copy it back and forth
using Windows.

I know that for some with shared computers (libraries, schools) this is a
tough prescription. All I can recommend for that is to use a brand new
formatted disk each time you save and don't do any editing.
--
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!

My criminal defense site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Mayor Mae" Mayor wrote in message
...
What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have
to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files
message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED?
I
am so frustrated................

Despite what seems to be a very popular misconception, CDs are *not* the
'New Age' replacement for floppies. Take Charles' recommendations seriously.

Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them, &
somewhere in the literature that came with your laptop there *should* be
instructions for your specific unit. What you need to know can vary greatly
depending on the type of CDs, the type of drive, & the software that
addresses it. Contact the laptop mfr's Support if the necessary manuals were
not provided.

--
HTH |:)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

"Mayor Mae" Mayor wrote in message
...
What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have
to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files
message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED?
I
am so frustrated................

Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All of the CDs and
DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a matter of dragging the
files to them, then choosing "Write these files..." In the PC world, if I'm
told that the CD needs to be formatted, that's usually an indication that
the drive is malfunctioning.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
http://www.herbtyson.com
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"CyberTaz" typegeneraltaz1ATcomcastdotnet wrote in message
...

Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them...

I've never formatted a CD. Never had the need to do so.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote in message
...
Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All of the CDs
and DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a matter of
dragging the files to them, then choosing "Write these files..." In the PC
world, if I'm told that the CD needs to be formatted, that's usually an
indication that the drive is malfunctioning.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
http://www.herbtyson.com
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"CyberTaz" typegeneraltaz1ATcomcastdotnet wrote in message
...

Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them...

CD's don't require formatting, unless they are to be used as a 'big floppy'
using third party packet writing applications such as Nero's InCD and
Roxio's equivalent nonsense

I have never seen a pre-formatted CD?

Packet applications are notoriously unreliable and should be avoided like
the plague.

If you want to ensure you will still have the data when you need it, use
multisession data formats using your CD/DVD writing software. Ashampoo's
Burning Studio takes all the thinking out of the process for beginners and
the more experienced alike.

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Herb Tyson [MVP] wrote:
Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All of the
CDs and DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a matter
of dragging the files to them, then choosing "Write these files..."
In the PC world, if I'm told that the CD needs to be formatted,
that's usually an indication that the drive is malfunctioning.


Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them...

Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, nor did I say the *user* had to
specifically do the formatting - in most cases it is transparently handled,
but still has to be done. Since the user made no mention of what model
laptop or what brand/type of drive I was just allowing for 'possibilities'.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Perhaps this excerpt states the point better:

3.1 Writing CD-ROMs (pure data)
Note that collecting the data to put onto a CD usually takes longer than one
expects. Consider that missing files cannot be added once the CD is written
and fixated. This is also true for CD-RW, which can currently only be
rewritten as a whole. Using the multi-session feature is no option for
single files, as it consumes much space for a new complete table of contents
(TOC). UDF is not ready yet for Linux.

Also keep in mind that a certain amount of the free space of a CD is used
for storing the information of the ISO-9660-filesystem (usually a few MB).
620 MB data will always fit on a 650 MB CD-R.


Creating an image of the later CD-ROM
Before any storage medium (e.g. floppy disk, hard disk or CD) can be used,
it must get a filesystem (DOS speak: get formatted). The filesystem is
responsible for organizing and incorporating the files that should be stored
on the medium.

The usual utilities for creating filesystems on hard disk partitions write
an empty filesystem onto them, which is then mounted and filled with files
by the users as they need it. A writable CD is only writable once so if we
wrote an empty filesystem to it, it would get formatted and remain
completely empty forever. This is also true for rewritable media as you
cannot change arbitrary sectors yet; you must erase their whole content.

-------------------------------

As well as this, pertaining to the actions that are seemingly 'transparent'
but account for some of the time:

Tick - It's the TOC
The Table of Contents (TOC) on a CD-R is the repository of all the
information required for your OS to understand the pattern of bytes on the
disc. Essentially, it contains everything needed for your system to figure
out what information is where and in what format, so that your request to
receive information can be satisfied.

For example, on an audio disc the data are not stored in files, but in a
continuous stream. The TOC informs the OS (or the player) that a specific
block is the beginning of a track. When you play a track, a command is given
to go to that block and to begin to retrieve the bit stream which follows.
Note that the track itself - in the audio sense - need not begin where the
TOC says it does, but that is irrelevant to the player. There are also
subcodes which can be used to interpret how to backspace and so on - but
they are beyond the present scope. (And if you want to read that as meaning
that I don't understand them, I couldn't argue.)

When you go to write a Disc At Once (DAO), all the information needed for
the job is available when you start. Mastering software assembles that
information and decides what is to be in the TOC. When everything is ready,
the laser is positioned and turned on and writing begins. The first thing
written is the TOC which says: this is a closed disc of a single session and
here is the information on what you will find where among the following
bytes. The laser then proceeds to write those bytes in sequence and in
accordance with the information saved to the TOC. When the last byte is
written, the laser turns off and you have a good disc. If that burn is
interrupted after the TOC is written but before the end, everything is
accessible up to the failure. An audio disc which fails when track 5 is
being written will be usable for tracks 1-4 and maybe for the written part
of 5 - but what happens when the track runs out depends on the player.

When you write Track At Once (TAO), the procedure is quite different. The
writer begins by inscribing a special area on the blank called the Program
Memory Area with information needed to close the session later. Then it
records track information and writes the track itself. When it's time to
close the session, the writing laser turns off, the mechanism returns to the
PMA and the information inscribed there is read back to close things up,
record how many tracks there are in all and, in general, to complete the
TOC. So if the burn fails before the PMA is read (or if the PMA cannot be
read at all), the TOC is not complete and a reader cannot make sense out of
it. However, not all is lost! Although the reader needs a complete TOC to do
its job, a writer is prepared to make do with less and, in fact, has what it
needs in the part of the TOC which is complete to retrieve the valid data.


--
Regards |:)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac


"CyberTaz" typegeneraltaz1ATcomcastdotnet wrote in message
...

Despite what seems to be a very popular misconception, CDs are *not* the
'New Age' replacement for floppies. Take Charles' recommendations
seriously.

Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them, &
somewhere in the literature that came with your laptop there *should* be
instructions for your specific unit. What you need to know can vary
greatly depending on the type of CDs, the type of drive, & the software
that addresses it. Contact the laptop mfr's Support if the necessary
manuals were not provided.

--
HTH |:)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

"Mayor Mae" Mayor wrote in message
...
What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have
to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files
message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED?
I
am so frustrated................

You're an MVP?!

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
CD's don't require formatting, unless they are to be used as a
'big floppy' using third party packet writing applications such
as Nero's InCD and Roxio's equivalent nonsense

That is patently untrue, and likely confusing to most newbies. A
CD needs to be formatted, same as any other data storage device.
Sometimes an app will format "on the fly", others lay down a set
of marks and then format "as you go", a little quicker for
writing data, and you can always fully format before you start,
giving you the fastest write times. But, a CD must be formatted
in order to use it, whether you're talking red, green, yellow or
orange book specs. Please don't mis-inform.


I have never seen a pre-formatted CD?

I have. Don't use them, but I have seen them. It's a way to
keep the costs up. I don't really think that's what the poster
meant though; he's probably using an "on the fly" formatting app
that lets him bypass a separate formatting process completely and
hasn't realized it. Or, maybe he did spring for the extra cost;
dunno. Wasn't really worth a comment w/r to the thread's subject
though.


Packet applications are notoriously unreliable and should be
avoided like the plague.

Again, patently untrue.
They are as reliable as the system running them and very seldom
cause problems on their own, as with any application.
Avoiding them is silly, almost stupid advice on your part.
They give one the ability to treat the CD as a floppy drive and
offer many other functional and desirable features; even the
freebie Roxio's that deliver with systems, and in particular
Nero, and a host of others.
Do not misinform people.

IMO you need to stick to Word advice, if you're any good at that.
I recognize you name but I perceive no reputation from your
posts, so IMO you've not been an oustanding poster in any way,
Word or not.


If you want to ensure you will still have the data when you
need it, use multisession data formats using your CD/DVD
writing software. Ashampoo's Burning Studio takes all the
thinking out of the process for beginners and the more
experienced alike.

Pop



--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Herb Tyson [MVP] wrote:
Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All
of the
CDs and DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a
matter
of dragging the files to them, then choosing "Write these
files..."
In the PC world, if I'm told that the CD needs to be
formatted,
that's usually an indication that the drive is malfunctioning.


Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to
them...

Thank you very much for your input- this granny is being "forced", "thrown",
however you want to say it, to thread further into the computer age, aside
from just e-mails, correspondence, etc. I have a Toshiba A105-S2716 laptop,
windows XP; using memorex CD-RW 700mb,80min, cd's and Memorex CD-R's. I can
use about any program, data base (excel, access, word), a dozen graphic
programs, and am very proficient. I've just never had a laptop that would
copy my files to CD's instead of an "A" drive. And when I'm asked to provide
a "copy" of my info, mainly data bases, I know it should be simple - but
you're talking to a person from the "manual typewriter" age - and I am trying
very hard to learn new steps and not look ignorant to the younger generation.
Thank you very much for your patience - you've done better explaining than
any manual, etc.

"CyberTaz" wrote:

Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, nor did I say the *user* had to
specifically do the formatting - in most cases it is transparently handled,
but still has to be done. Since the user made no mention of what model
laptop or what brand/type of drive I was just allowing for 'possibilities'.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

Perhaps this excerpt states the point better:

3.1 Writing CD-ROMs (pure data)
Note that collecting the data to put onto a CD usually takes longer than one
expects. Consider that missing files cannot be added once the CD is written
and fixated. This is also true for CD-RW, which can currently only be
rewritten as a whole. Using the multi-session feature is no option for
single files, as it consumes much space for a new complete table of contents
(TOC). UDF is not ready yet for Linux.

Also keep in mind that a certain amount of the free space of a CD is used
for storing the information of the ISO-9660-filesystem (usually a few MB).
620 MB data will always fit on a 650 MB CD-R.


Creating an image of the later CD-ROM
Before any storage medium (e.g. floppy disk, hard disk or CD) can be used,
it must get a filesystem (DOS speak: get formatted). The filesystem is
responsible for organizing and incorporating the files that should be stored
on the medium.

The usual utilities for creating filesystems on hard disk partitions write
an empty filesystem onto them, which is then mounted and filled with files
by the users as they need it. A writable CD is only writable once so if we
wrote an empty filesystem to it, it would get formatted and remain
completely empty forever. This is also true for rewritable media as you
cannot change arbitrary sectors yet; you must erase their whole content.

-------------------------------

As well as this, pertaining to the actions that are seemingly 'transparent'
but account for some of the time:

Tick - It's the TOC
The Table of Contents (TOC) on a CD-R is the repository of all the
information required for your OS to understand the pattern of bytes on the
disc. Essentially, it contains everything needed for your system to figure
out what information is where and in what format, so that your request to
receive information can be satisfied.

For example, on an audio disc the data are not stored in files, but in a
continuous stream. The TOC informs the OS (or the player) that a specific
block is the beginning of a track. When you play a track, a command is given
to go to that block and to begin to retrieve the bit stream which follows.
Note that the track itself - in the audio sense - need not begin where the
TOC says it does, but that is irrelevant to the player. There are also
subcodes which can be used to interpret how to backspace and so on - but
they are beyond the present scope. (And if you want to read that as meaning
that I don't understand them, I couldn't argue.)

When you go to write a Disc At Once (DAO), all the information needed for
the job is available when you start. Mastering software assembles that
information and decides what is to be in the TOC. When everything is ready,
the laser is positioned and turned on and writing begins. The first thing
written is the TOC which says: this is a closed disc of a single session and
here is the information on what you will find where among the following
bytes. The laser then proceeds to write those bytes in sequence and in
accordance with the information saved to the TOC. When the last byte is
written, the laser turns off and you have a good disc. If that burn is
interrupted after the TOC is written but before the end, everything is
accessible up to the failure. An audio disc which fails when track 5 is
being written will be usable for tracks 1-4 and maybe for the written part
of 5 - but what happens when the track runs out depends on the player.

When you write Track At Once (TAO), the procedure is quite different. The
writer begins by inscribing a special area on the blank called the Program
Memory Area with information needed to close the session later. Then it
records track information and writes the track itself. When it's time to
close the session, the writing laser turns off, the mechanism returns to the
PMA and the information inscribed there is read back to close things up,
record how many tracks there are in all and, in general, to complete the
TOC. So if the burn fails before the PMA is read (or if the PMA cannot be
read at all), the TOC is not complete and a reader cannot make sense out of
it. However, not all is lost! Although the reader needs a complete TOC to do
its job, a writer is prepared to make do with less and, in fact, has what it
needs in the part of the TOC which is complete to retrieve the valid data.


--
Regards |:)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac


"CyberTaz" typegeneraltaz1ATcomcastdotnet wrote in message
...

Despite what seems to be a very popular misconception, CDs are *not* the
'New Age' replacement for floppies. Take Charles' recommendations
seriously.

Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them, &
somewhere in the literature that came with your laptop there *should* be
instructions for your specific unit. What you need to know can vary
greatly depending on the type of CDs, the type of drive, & the software
that addresses it. Contact the laptop mfr's Support if the necessary
manuals were not provided.

--
HTH |:)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

"Mayor Mae" Mayor wrote in message
...
What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have
to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files
message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED?
I
am so frustrated................

Packet-writing applications are fine as long as the CDs are for your own use
only, but they cannot be read by anyone else who does not have the software
used to write the CDs. I have personally experienced this. You may not be
aware of it, but Graham is not only a Word MVP but also very knowledgeable
about CD issues (esp. wrt music CDs). See
http://www.gmayor.com/CDR_Pages.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"PopS" wrote in message
...
You're an MVP?!

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
CD's don't require formatting, unless they are to be used as a
'big floppy' using third party packet writing applications such
as Nero's InCD and Roxio's equivalent nonsense

That is patently untrue, and likely confusing to most newbies. A
CD needs to be formatted, same as any other data storage device.
Sometimes an app will format "on the fly", others lay down a set
of marks and then format "as you go", a little quicker for
writing data, and you can always fully format before you start,
giving you the fastest write times. But, a CD must be formatted
in order to use it, whether you're talking red, green, yellow or
orange book specs. Please don't mis-inform.


I have never seen a pre-formatted CD?

I have. Don't use them, but I have seen them. It's a way to
keep the costs up. I don't really think that's what the poster
meant though; he's probably using an "on the fly" formatting app
that lets him bypass a separate formatting process completely and
hasn't realized it. Or, maybe he did spring for the extra cost;
dunno. Wasn't really worth a comment w/r to the thread's subject
though.


Packet applications are notoriously unreliable and should be
avoided like the plague.

Again, patently untrue.
They are as reliable as the system running them and very seldom
cause problems on their own, as with any application.
Avoiding them is silly, almost stupid advice on your part.
They give one the ability to treat the CD as a floppy drive and
offer many other functional and desirable features; even the
freebie Roxio's that deliver with systems, and in particular
Nero, and a host of others.
Do not misinform people.

IMO you need to stick to Word advice, if you're any good at that.
I recognize you name but I perceive no reputation from your
posts, so IMO you've not been an oustanding poster in any way,
Word or not.


If you want to ensure you will still have the data when you
need it, use multisession data formats using your CD/DVD
writing software. Ashampoo's Burning Studio takes all the
thinking out of the process for beginners and the more
experienced alike.

Pop



--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Herb Tyson [MVP] wrote:
Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All
of the
CDs and DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a
matter
of dragging the files to them, then choosing "Write these
files..."
In the PC world, if I'm told that the CD needs to be
formatted,
that's usually an indication that the drive is malfunctioning.


Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to
them...

Of course CD's are created using a special format which places the data in a
logical manner that can be read according to the type of disc created, but
that isn't the issue here. What the PC user understands by 'formatting' a
disc is the pre-formatting of a disc to accept data as (for example) would
be the case with a floppy disc. Writeable CDs do not require such formatting
EXCEPT for use by a packet writing system, so your comment that "you can
always fully format before you start, giving you the fastest write times" is
clearly drivel.

Your faith in the ability of such systems is touching. There is little
compatibility between the different types and InCd for example cannot even
read discs created by some earlier versions of the same software.
Furthermore InCD (unless it has changed very recently) cannot handle write
once discs. Packet filing systems are notoriously 'fragile' and if the disc
becomes corrupt they are usually incapable of recovery. If you want to trust
your valuable data to either a volatile filing system or to re-writable
disks then that is a matter for you. Most of us prefer to be able to access
our data in the future.

Pre-formatted CD discs would have to be pre-formatted with some packet
writing filing system or other and would have limited use thanks to the lack
of standards. As I said, I have never seen them - but if you can provide a
link I will concede that such things may be available.

As to the value of my posting, I am not afraid to put my name on anything I
post, and my antecedents are readily searchable on the internet. Pity the
same cannot be said for some arsehole who likes to snipe from behind a
pseudonym.


--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org



PopS wrote:
You're an MVP?!

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
CD's don't require formatting, unless they are to be used as a
'big floppy' using third party packet writing applications such
as Nero's InCD and Roxio's equivalent nonsense

That is patently untrue, and likely confusing to most newbies. A
CD needs to be formatted, same as any other data storage device.
Sometimes an app will format "on the fly", others lay down a set
of marks and then format "as you go", a little quicker for
writing data, and you can always fully format before you start,
giving you the fastest write times. But, a CD must be formatted
in order to use it, whether you're talking red, green, yellow or
orange book specs. Please don't mis-inform.


I have never seen a pre-formatted CD?

I have. Don't use them, but I have seen them. It's a way to
keep the costs up. I don't really think that's what the poster
meant though; he's probably using an "on the fly" formatting app
that lets him bypass a separate formatting process completely and
hasn't realized it. Or, maybe he did spring for the extra cost;
dunno. Wasn't really worth a comment w/r to the thread's subject
though.


Packet applications are notoriously unreliable and should be
avoided like the plague.

Again, patently untrue.
They are as reliable as the system running them and very seldom
cause problems on their own, as with any application.
Avoiding them is silly, almost stupid advice on your part.
They give one the ability to treat the CD as a floppy drive and
offer many other functional and desirable features; even the
freebie Roxio's that deliver with systems, and in particular
Nero, and a host of others.
Do not misinform people.

IMO you need to stick to Word advice, if you're any good at that.
I recognize you name but I perceive no reputation from your
posts, so IMO you've not been an oustanding poster in any way,
Word or not.


If you want to ensure you will still have the data when you
need it, use multisession data formats using your CD/DVD
writing software. Ashampoo's Burning Studio takes all the
thinking out of the process for beginners and the more
experienced alike.

Pop



--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


Herb Tyson [MVP] wrote:
Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All
of the
CDs and DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a
matter
of dragging the files to them, then choosing "Write these
files..."
In the PC world, if I'm told that the CD needs to be
formatted,
that's usually an indication that the drive is malfunctioning.


Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to
them...

I meant "pre-formatted" in the sense that it's structured as a CD that your
system recognizes, and is ready to roll. There is a special name for a CD
that has not been structured in any way -- it's called "a round piece of
plastic." :-)

I was trying to indicate that formatting is not something a user typically
needs to worry about when copying files to a blank new [non-rewriteable] CD.
As you indicate, rewriteable CDs are a different matter. Whenever Windows XP
tells me that a blank new [non-rewriteable] CD needs to be formatted, that
invariably is a sign that a) the CD itself is defective, or b) the CD drive
or its drivers are malfunctioning.

In this case, the only missing step that occurs to me would be the "Write
these files to disk" step, which often eludes users who are experiencing
frustration with CDs.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
http://www.herbtyson.com
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...

What the PC user understands by 'formatting' a disc is the pre-formatting
of a disc to accept data as (for example) would be the case with a floppy
disc. Writeable CDs do not require such formatting EXCEPT for use by a
packet writing system, so your comment that "you can always fully format
before you start, giving you the fastest write times" is clearly drivel.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message
...
Packet-writing applications are fine as long as the CDs are for
your own use
only, but they cannot be read by anyone else who does not have
the software
used to write the CDs. I have personally experienced this. You
may not be
aware of it, but Graham is not only a Word MVP but also very
knowledgeable
about CD issues (esp. wrt music CDs). See
http://www.gmayor.com/CDR_Pages.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

I'm surpised at you, Suzanne, and very disappointed! Your advice
is usually dead on and accurate: That's entirely wrong about
having to use them on the same machine they were burned on, and
certainly not the norm with any reasonable packet writing
application. What you say is true ONLY IF the user should decide
to not close the CD or to make it readable in other computers, so
they may continue to add data to them without losing previously
written data. Or, they choose some strange format. That's why
the end of writing choices are always a form of "leave as is", or
Close the CD, or Close and Write Protect the CD so it can't be
written to again". Closing a CD adds the toc and headers
required for standard CD readability. There are sometimes a
couple other options also and to date I've never seen an
application where those munues weren't turned on by default;
you'd have to turn off the notices manually; they're usually in
the Eject dialogs. A tracking misalignment could also cause
issues of course, and there are other reasons there could be
problems, but the packet-writing software has nothing to do with
those. It works well and as advertised unless you're using some
amateur's unknown works.

I can appreciate your supporting a fellow mvp, but what you say
just isn't true. I create CDs and DVDs with Roxio and/or Movie
Factory and those disks are readable in ANY computer to date to
which I;ve delivered them, which is approximately 200 or a little
less, that they've been played on, and are also, with Movie
Factory, playable in any reasonably recent desktop CD/DVD player,
that supports the CD/DVD formats. In fact, some will even play
JPGs and a couple other formats.
All the software has to do is meet the specs of the relevantly
colored book; it's not really rocket science.

I respectfully submit that you, and at least one other MVP here,
must have some very outdated experience with them. I've been
doing this for going on two years and a few months now, with zero
problems from the burning process.
It CAN be a problem if one isn't willing to RTFM, or at least
the onscreen instructions and menu notices and dialogs. Oh, and
I did have a batch of 50 once that were a problem; but that was
media problem, not software.

Oh, and Graham apparently isn't very "up" on CD background
either, because he's wrong and gave the same misinformation you
just parroted.

Regards,

Pop

I'm surprised at you, Suzanne, and very disappointed! Your advice
is usually dead on and accurate: That's entirely wrong about
having to use them on the same machine they were burned on, and
certainly not the norm with any reasonable packet writing
application. What you say is true ONLY IF the user should decide
to not close the CD or to make it readable in other computers, so
they may continue to add data to them without losing previously
written data.

But that's the whole point of these packet systems - so that they can be
used like a big floppy. If the aim was to produce a closed and finished disc
Windows could manage that all by itself.

I can appreciate your supporting a fellow mvp, but what you say
just isn't true. I create CDs and DVDs with Roxio and/or Movie
Factory and those disks are readable in ANY computer to date to
which I;ve delivered them, which is approximately 200 or a little
less, that they've been played on, and are also, with Movie
Factory, playable in any reasonably recent desktop CD/DVD player,
that supports the CD/DVD formats. In fact, some will even play
JPGs and a couple other formats.

DVD is a different issue and not relevant to this forum - but the
compatibility of many domestic players, both CD and DVD of user writeable
disc media is marginal at best and the age (or price for that matter) of the
player has little to do with it. The *same* formats written with different
software products on the same types of media can produce discs that have a
different readability from the same writer - but this is digressing.

All the software has to do is meet the specs of the relevantly
colored book; it's not really rocket science.

If only This is one field of activity where only token adherence is made
to standards.

Even Ahead (Nero/InCD) acknowledges that its own product is not entirely
compatible between different versions. Roxio seems to be entirely staffed by
marketing people who will tell you anything. While some people claim to be
able to interchange discs between Roxio and InCD (and still have them behave
as large floppies - which I repeat is the only point of such software) there
are far more who lose data as a result.

I respectfully submit that you, and at least one other MVP here,
must have some very outdated experience with them. I've been
doing this for going on two years and a few months now, with zero
problems from the burning process.

There is nothing whatsoever respectful in your submission. At least we have
the courtesy to say who we are, so that we can be researched. The fortunate
experiences of one anonymous user is no reflection on the wider experiences
of the computer community as a whole.

Data packet formats as used in these 'big floppy' software systems are
unstable, and when corrupted almost impossible to recover from. You trade
reliability for convenience. Multisession ISO discs whether created on
re-writables (or better still write once discs) are much more stable and
offer wider compatibility between hardware platforms. Data can also usually
be recovered should the disc become corrupted. The small amount of extra
effort required to produce such a disc is a good trade.

It CAN be a problem if one isn't willing to RTFM, or at least
the onscreen instructions and menu notices and dialogs. Oh, and
I did have a batch of 50 once that were a problem; but that was
media problem, not software.

The manual isn't going to make the packet format any more stable.

I have mentioned media compatibility. I'll bet that there was nothing wrong
with those discs that would stop them from working as intended with a
different writer and/or player combination..


Oh, and Graham apparently isn't very "up" on CD background
either, because he's wrong and gave the same misinformation you
just parroted.

Researching your postings in other forums I came across your description of
yourself as this gem:

"a more-than-a-newbie, knows-enough-to-be-dangerous"

A little knowledge as you acknowledge is a dangerous thing. You should keep
it to yourself until you know more about the topic and more about the depth
of knowledge of the people you are criticising.


--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org

"Graham Mayor" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised at you, Suzanne, and very disappointed! Your
advice
is usually dead on and accurate: That's entirely wrong about
having to use them on the same machine they were burned on,
and
certainly not the norm with any reasonable packet writing
application. What you say is true ONLY IF the user should
decide
to not close the CD or to make it readable in other computers,
so
they may continue to add data to them without losing
previously
written data.

But that's the whole point of these packet systems - so that
they can be used like a big floppy. If the aim was to produce a
closed and finished disc Windows could manage that all by
itself.

I can appreciate your supporting a fellow mvp, but what you
say
just isn't true. I create CDs and DVDs with Roxio and/or
Movie
Factory and those disks are readable in ANY computer to date
to
which I;ve delivered them, which is approximately 200 or a
little
less, that they've been played on, and are also, with Movie
Factory, playable in any reasonably recent desktop CD/DVD
player,
that supports the CD/DVD formats. In fact, some will even
play
JPGs and a couple other formats.

DVD is a different issue and not relevant to this forum -

No problem; Dunno why DVD wouldn't be relevant on the forum, any
differently than CD, but ... the origin was CD, so I'll agree to
that.
....

All the software has to do is meet the specs of the
relevantly
colored book; it's not really rocket science.

If only This is one field of activity where only token
adherence is made to standards.

lol, can't argue too hard on that one. However, parts of them
are adhered to and those have to do with Closing CDs and making
them readable in other drives. The attitude in design groups
often seems to be to adhere where it matters to the customer, but
internally, that's "their" business since they know a "better
way".

....
While some people claim to be
able to interchange discs between Roxio and InCD (and still
have them behave as large floppies - which I repeat is the only
point of such software) there are far more who lose data as a
result.

Aha, a syntactical disconnect! I never said they could act as a
"big floppy", which implies read/write functionality. I did,
however, which you seem to have ignored, say that when you CLOSE
a CD, or CLOSE A CD AND WRITE PROTECT IT SO IT CAN'T BE WRITTEN
TO AGAIN, that it CAN be taken to most other CD drives/players
and used very successfully! Which I've also done now, many, many
times!
I never indicated that the data on them could be ADDED TO. If
one doesn't write-protect the CD, then you can indeed re-open it,
and write more to it, BUT, all previous data will be lost, and of
course you will have also lost the space it occupied.
OTOH, your vagueries have allowed a discussion to go on that
is actually now obviously irrelevant.

I respectfully submit that you, and at least one other MVP
here,
must have some very outdated experience with them. I've been
doing this for going on two years and a few months now, with
zero
problems from the burning process.

And I stand by that statement; I have been delivering CLOSED CDs
to others for a long period of time without problems, indicating
that Packet Writing is indeed reliable, IFF it is used properly,
as in CLOSING the CD and write protecting it, to the tables, toc
etc. are written to it for standard CD players.


There is nothing whatsoever respectful in your submission.

That sentence is why you see no mention of respect this time. I
do not respect your advice concerning CD technology any longer as
of that sentence. Either your knowledge of CD technology is
lacking, or you purposely keep things vague.
I am now of the opinion that you practice CMA by remaining
vague so that no matter what happens, you think you have an out.
You do not have an out when you're wrong, which you were, and
purposely ignore facts so that all you have to type is your own
opinion and hope no one will notice, and you've been showing this
since the point where you originally went OT.

At least we have
the courtesy to say who we are, so that we can be researched.
The fortunate experiences of one anonymous user is no
reflection on the wider experiences of the computer community
as a whole.

Irrelevant; don't know what you're getting at. Don't explain
though, you and I are through "discussing" this one.


Data packet formats as used in these 'big floppy' software
systems are unstable, and when corrupted almost impossible to
recover from.

CDs are not in "big floppy" software systems.

You trade
reliability for convenience.

No, you do not. I routinely also take CDs made on my desktop to
my laptop, and vice-versa with zero problems. XP Pro/Home
respectively. In particular on a single machine, to date,
approximately 400 CDs from a glance at the spindles sitting
around and in archive, I haven't yet had a failure except for
three "way back when" before I discovered the adhesive problems
CDs could experinience. I was, however, able to recover all but
about twenty of the audio files with diagnostic recovery software
from those three. I recall it vividly because I was pretty
****ed twice; when it happened, and later when I discovered it
was the labels. I stopped labelling and haven't had a failure
since; if the machine can read it, it's reliable.
Oops! I forgot to count the about 75 probably, "current" CDs
sitting on the shelf above me here. I won't count the DVDs since
those aren't germaine, according to you.

Multisession ISO discs whether created on
re-writables (or better still write once discs) are much more
stable and

I can agree with that. ISO is a good way to go - but ... well,
I'm sure you know where you went astray there.

offer wider compatibility between hardware platforms.

Incorrect; there is no difference; either way, reliability
depends on the media and the ability of the laser to do the job
it was designed to do. A properly handled and cared for CD will
last as long whether it's +/-R or +/-RW. Once the punch has
occurred, it's there until something external damages it or the
media oxidizes.

Data can also usually
be recovered should the disc become corrupted. The small amount
of extra effort required to produce such a disc is a good
trade.

I use R/Ws too, but not for that reason. They're simply
temporary intermediate backups until the scheduled backup comes
along and grabs the whole thing. A CD just does not "become
corrupted" for no reason or by sitting on a shelf for a few
years. I know there is some mathematical data showing end of
life/oxidation, migration, etc etc. but none of that occurs in
any timeframe relevant to this discussion because it's measured
in decades, not years.


It CAN be a problem if one isn't willing to RTFM, or at
least
the onscreen instructions and menu notices and dialogs. Oh,
and
I did have a batch of 50 once that were a problem; but that
was
media problem, not software.

The manual isn't going to make the packet format any more
stable.

Your vagueries at work again: Is it "corruption" or is it
unreliable packet writing? They are not the same. As for
"stable", well, you either misspoke or have some archane meaning
in mind. Packet Writing is stable when using reputable software,
and the CDs do not "corrupt" once they are burned. Whatever has
caused your sour experiences, your conclusions are wrong.
I can only repeat: RTFM, and try to understand it. Then do a
little realistic research; you seem to have the time for it.

I have mentioned media compatibility. I'll bet that there was
nothing wrong with those discs that would stop them from
working as intended with a different writer and/or player
combination..

Bet all you want; you'd lose. Interestingly enough, when I
started having problems with the CDs being recognized was about
the same time I was discovering the technology and manufacturer
differences in CDs, and NERO was one of the first diags I used to
check the CDs after my own Roxio diags. After three sets of very
similar results, I concluded my drive was fine and the CDs were
to blame. I talked to where i bought them, and received a
replacement spindle of CDs, and those were 100% fine: Same mfg
same brand, same type.



Oh, and Graham apparently isn't very "up" on CD background
either, because he's wrong and gave the same misinformation
you
just parroted.

Researching your postings in other forums I came across your
description of yourself as this gem:

"a more-than-a-newbie, knows-enough-to-be-dangerous"

lol, you DO have too much time on your hands! That's still how I
consider myself, in fact. Even though it's obvious you don't
have the handle on CD technology that I've been able to glean,
I'm not pompous enough to claim I know everything. There's lots
I don't know or understand yet about a lot of things, and when a
situation occurs where I might be wrong, I like to acknowledge
that.
The problem comes from the stagnation that you expect: Things
CHANGE over time, espeically with people. Well, maybe you don't,
but I've grown in knowledge and experience at least. I try hard
to be honest about my abilties but I don't need to look back at
posts to know that you don't because I recall several of them
where you were off track.


A little knowledge as you acknowledge is a dangerous thing.

You should think about that a "little" more. You are probably
many, many magnitudes more "dangerous" than I, but you won't
admit it; rather than check your information, you barge in with
both nostrils blaring, and state your "facts" as you see them.


You should keep
it to yourself until you know more about the topic and more
about the depth of knowledge of the people you are criticising.

As I intimated, in this sense, I know exactly to whom I am
sending my criticisms. You. If you can't take criticism, you
shouldn't be on the boards. If you can't show respect, you
should not respond to those you no longer respect.

BTW, that said, I will no longer be responding to anything you
say in this thread. You can rant, rave, troll all you want, but
I have nothing futher to say to you nor do I consider your
knowledge to be anything but mediocre w/r to CDs and their uses.
A wart on the ass of progress comes to mind, but I'll not say
that g about you, so you can't claim I said that about you g.
I would recommend you respond if you feel you must, but lest
you be logged as a troll, you should also desist, but it's
certainly your perogative.

Bye,

Pop




--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org

[123-45*42]

when i insert it nothing pops up HELP ME NOW

"Mayor Mae" wrote:

What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED? I
am so frustrated................

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

This really has nothing to do with Word. Use the software that came with
your CD burner.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"123-45*42" wrote in message
...
when i insert it nothing pops up HELP ME NOW

"Mayor Mae" wrote:

What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have
to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files
message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED?
I
am so frustrated................

[Terry Farrell]

Never save directly to any form of removable media. Save to the local HDD
first and then copy to a flash drive (or burn to a CDR using the CD burning
software). Try to save to removable media will end in tears.

--
Terry Farrell - MS Word MVP

"123-45*42" wrote in message
...
when i insert it nothing pops up HELP ME NOW

"Mayor Mae" wrote:

What are the exact steps to save a file to disc? I have a new laptop
w/windows XP, and follow directions, but files do not copy. Do you have
to
format every disc before you use it? I never see temporary files
message/copy
to CD. Should formatting take 15 minutes EVERY time? Why aren't any
instructions complete, step by step, and include DISC must BE FORMATTED?
I
am so frustrated................

[don]

I cant get the new thread question to work, so I'll try posting it as a reply
Syncing my iPhone corrupted my XP. System restore fixed all of the damage I
know of (scrambled IE7 favorites, put phone #s in address boxes in OE6
address book) EXCEPT: I CANNOT write to my usb floppy drive A. The computer
sees it and tells me to insert disk. Inserting the disk shuts down the PC.
Toshiba says must do a total re-install.
Don

"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All of the CDs and
DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a matter of dragging the
files to them, then choosing "Write these files..." In the PC world, if I'm
told that the CD needs to be formatted, that's usually an indication that
the drive is malfunctioning.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
http://www.herbtyson.com
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"CyberTaz" typegeneraltaz1ATcomcastdotnet wrote in message
...

Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them...

[Terry Farrell]

Why are you posting this in a newsgroup for WORD problems?

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Don" wrote in message
...
I cant get the new thread question to work, so I'll try posting it as a
reply
Syncing my iPhone corrupted my XP. System restore fixed all of the damage
I
know of (scrambled IE7 favorites, put phone #s in address boxes in OE6
address book) EXCEPT: I CANNOT write to my usb floppy drive A. The
computer
sees it and tells me to insert disk. Inserting the disk shuts down the PC.
Toshiba says must do a total re-install.
Don

"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All of the CDs
and
DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a matter of dragging
the
files to them, then choosing "Write these files..." In the PC world, if
I'm
told that the CD needs to be formatted, that's usually an indication that
the drive is malfunctioning.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
http://www.herbtyson.com
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"CyberTaz" typegeneraltaz1ATcomcastdotnet wrote in message
...

Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them...

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

This question has (virtually) nothing to do with Microsoft Word.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

"Don" wrote in message
...
I cant get the new thread question to work, so I'll try posting it as a
reply
Syncing my iPhone corrupted my XP. System restore fixed all of the damage
I
know of (scrambled IE7 favorites, put phone #s in address boxes in OE6
address book) EXCEPT: I CANNOT write to my usb floppy drive A. The
computer
sees it and tells me to insert disk. Inserting the disk shuts down the PC.
Toshiba says must do a total re-install.
Don

"Herb Tyson [MVP]" wrote:

Well... that's not always the case--at least not for PCs. All of the CDs
and
DVDs I've ever bought come pre-formatted. It's just a matter of dragging
the
files to them, then choosing "Write these files..." In the PC world, if
I'm
told that the CD needs to be formatted, that's usually an indication that
the drive is malfunctioning.

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
http://www.herbtyson.com
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.
"CyberTaz" typegeneraltaz1ATcomcastdotnet wrote in message
...

Yes, new CDs must be formatted before data can be written to them...