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take yet another lesson from wordperfect "reveal codes"
I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find myself forced to use it. I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function. Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on what I am typing. Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them. It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce an outline. Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse? Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give us the power to see it and delete it. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t |
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#2
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Word and WordPerfect represent two different philosophies. I tried, but
never could get used to what seemed to me to be illogical procedures/methods in WordPerfect. Clearly, you see things entirely the reverse from how I see them. Word does have a "reveal codes" feature. But, it doesn't work like WP's. It can't. Why? Because Word doesn't use codes. WordPerfect treats the document as a stream from beginning to end. Hence, codes make sense. Word uses an object approach: characters, words, lines, sentences, paragraphs, sections, graphics, documents... each are different types of objects. You don't format HTML-style (at least not in Word versions 1 through 11) by bracketing text with start/stop codes. Instead, you select an object and format it. If you have a recent version of Word, choose Format - Reveal Formatting from the menu to see what formatting is applied to the current selection. As for automatic stuff... lots of folks agree with you. And, that's why much of what you talk about is optional and can be turned on or off. Choose Tools - AutoCorrect Options. In the AutoCorrect tab, you'll see one set of automatic stuff that can be turned off. In the AutoFormat as You Type tab, you'll find another set. This includes things like Automatic Numbered Lists, which is one of the features that produces the phantom tabs that don't really exist, and hence are impervious to the mouse. Turn the automatic stuff off and you can create your own numbered lists using tabs that respond to the mouse, delete, etc. If you have to use Word, then invest some time into learning it. It's not the same as WordPerfect. So, don't expect it to be--that's inviting frustration. But, for professional writers, there is much to like about Word. It's just a matter of investing some effort into learning how to make it work for you, rather than you and it fighting every step of the way. ;-) -- Herb Tyson MS MVP Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along. http://www.herbtyson.com "wordperfect is superior" wordperfect is wrote in message news  I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find myself forced to use it. I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function. Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on what I am typing. Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them. It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce an outline. Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse? Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give us the power to see it and delete it. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t |
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#3
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You are right, Word Perfect is better at some things than is Word, the
converse is also true. Reveal codes would _not_ work in Word because Word does not use codes the way Word Perfect does. Rather, it styles and containers. See http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm Word Perfect essentially sends a list of instructions to the printer with formatting codes such as "Turn Bold On" ... text ... "Turn Bold Off." Word simply does not do this, or at least doesn't set up its documents as a series of printer instructions. Here is some general info on moving from Word Perfect to Word: Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another. Each program's methods have strengths and weaknesses; but, if you try to use one of these programs as if it were the other, it is like pushing on a string! You can easily make a lot of extra work for yourself. If you are unwilling to take the time to learn to use Word's methods, you should stick to using Word Pad. You'll have a lot less grief, although you'll miss out on a lot of raw power. In the (short) long term spending the time to learn Word will save you time if you are spending any time at all (more than an hour a day) using Word. See http://www.addbalance.com/word/wordperfect.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...ordPerfect.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...AndGotchas.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...Converters.htm http://businesssoft.about.com/comput.../blconvert.htm for information on Word for Word Perfect users. For mo http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart2.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart1.htm http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Number...gExplained.htm http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...latesStore.htm Function Keys In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this. Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys() Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True End Sub Word's Extend key (F8) gives something similar to block processing. Formatting and Styles Learn about Styles - really learn! http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm I resisted for years and now regret every day of those years because although that string was still very hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word concept of organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into place and instead of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on the very powerful text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it will start doing your work for you instead of running around behind you trying to undo what you just thought you did. Converting documents Word / Word Perfect Some special characters in Word Perfect documents don't convert well to Word. There is a macro to assist with this described at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/...html#macroword and can be found at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/WPSymbolConv.bas. This was prepared by Edward Mendelson. Otherwise, look at the macro from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=212396 Use these on _copies_! As for converting documents from Word Perfect to _use_ in Word... In a word, don't plan on it. I would not recommend using converted documents long-term. They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you at the worst time. This is especially true of any documents containing automatic numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word using the following process: In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as text files. Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your formatting to look. Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using styles, not direct formatting. Save it again. To use a template within Word, use File = New and pick your template. This will create a new document for you. Merge documents have special problems and should be recreated from text files or retyped in Word. To convert data files, consider generating labels in WP as a document, converting that to Word, and then using http://www.gmayor.com/convert_labels...mail_merge.htm to get a new Word data file. Note that conversions usually do create documents that look passable and print OK; the problems I'm referring to have to do with editing / making changes, that is, using the documents long-term. (See below on reusing documents vs. using templates.) Conversion back to Word Perfect: There is a problem (in addition to the ones mentioned for conversion _to_ Word) with Version 2002 (XP) and later of Word. The conversion file only works for conversion _to_ Word, not from Word to Word Perfect! Earlier versions went both ways. To fix this, you need to find the old conversion file WPFT532.CNV from a Word 97 or Word 2000 installation and copy it to your new installation, replacing the file of the same name. Note, the change making the file one-way was done as a security measure. While I don't know of any problems the old file causes, keep the new installation's file somewhere as a backup just in case. Boilerplate and Forms In WP a lot of people use macros to hold chunks of text - boilerplate. In Word this function is filled by Templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect, not macros. Follow the links at http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebre...s.htm#AutoText for more information on these tools. You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For more about online forms, follow the links at http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#Forms or http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...nTheBlanks.htm especially Dian Chapman's series of articles. You may also want to look at http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFl...nesInForms.htm. Reusing Documents vs. Using templates General practice in WP is to have a document and copy and edit it to create a new document. This is not good practice in Word. In Word, construct a good, tight, template for your documents and use that template when constructing new documents. Among other things, this can avoid embarrassing "metadata" (http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/metadata.htm) and things like surprise headers and footers from creeping into new documents. It's a lot of reading, I know. It's OK to chunk it down and do a bit each day, but I would recommend that you make it a top priority to do that bit each day. In the (short) long run, it will save you both time and grief. -- Charles Kenyon Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide See also the MVP FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/word which is awesome! --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn from my ignorance and your wisdom. "wordperfect is superior" wordperfect is wrote in message news I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find myself forced to use it. I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function. Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on what I am typing. Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them. It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce an outline. Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse? Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give us the power to see it and delete it. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t |
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#4
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I'm usually not much of a diplomat, but I agree with everyone in this
discussion. I'm a professional writer, and would not use Word if my clients did not require it, either explicitly or tacitly. After 10 years of working with Word (currently Word 2003), I still find cause to miss WordPerfect a few times a day. Lists, tables, equations, foreign words and phrases, not to mention tabs, indents and text boxes are so much easier and more stable in WP. On the other hand, the operative fact of life in this situation is that I must use Word or give up most of my client base. So I have learned to work with Word, and have found groups like this invaluable in helping me solve any problems that come up. Sometimes, Word being what it is, they can't be solved. Then I understand it is up to me to find a way within Word to accomplish what I need to do to keep working. The most valuable feature of Word for me is Track Revisions and Comments, which is essential for working collaboratively. I'm sure that recent versions of WordPerfect have similar capabilities, but I no longer keep up with the development of WP. Orrie "Charles Kenyon" wrote in message ... You are right, Word Perfect is better at some things than is Word, the converse is also true. Reveal codes would _not_ work in Word because Word does not use codes the way Word Perfect does. Rather, it styles and containers. See http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm Word Perfect essentially sends a list of instructions to the printer with formatting codes such as "Turn Bold On" ... text ... "Turn Bold Off." Word simply does not do this, or at least doesn't set up its documents as a series of printer instructions. Here is some general info on moving from Word Perfect to Word: Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another. Each program's methods have strengths and weaknesses; but, if you try to use one of these programs as if it were the other, it is like pushing on a string! You can easily make a lot of extra work for yourself. If you are unwilling to take the time to learn to use Word's methods, you should stick to using Word Pad. You'll have a lot less grief, although you'll miss out on a lot of raw power. In the (short) long term spending the time to learn Word will save you time if you are spending any time at all (more than an hour a day) using Word. See http://www.addbalance.com/word/wordperfect.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...ordPerfect.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...AndGotchas.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...Converters.htm http://businesssoft.about.com/comput.../blconvert.htm for information on Word for Word Perfect users. For mo http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart2.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart1.htm http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Number...gExplained.htm http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...latesStore.htm Function Keys In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this. Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys() Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True End Sub Word's Extend key (F8) gives something similar to block processing. Formatting and Styles Learn about Styles - really learn! http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm I resisted for years and now regret every day of those years because although that string was still very hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word concept of organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into place and instead of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on the very powerful text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it will start doing your work for you instead of running around behind you trying to undo what you just thought you did. Converting documents Word / Word Perfect Some special characters in Word Perfect documents don't convert well to Word. There is a macro to assist with this described at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/...html#macroword and can be found at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/WPSymbolConv.bas. This was prepared by Edward Mendelson. Otherwise, look at the macro from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=212396 Use these on _copies_! As for converting documents from Word Perfect to _use_ in Word... In a word, don't plan on it. I would not recommend using converted documents long-term. They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you at the worst time. This is especially true of any documents containing automatic numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word using the following process: In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as text files. Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your formatting to look. Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using styles, not direct formatting. Save it again. To use a template within Word, use File = New and pick your template. This will create a new document for you. Merge documents have special problems and should be recreated from text files or retyped in Word. To convert data files, consider generating labels in WP as a document, converting that to Word, and then using http://www.gmayor.com/convert_labels...mail_merge.htm to get a new Word data file. Note that conversions usually do create documents that look passable and print OK; the problems I'm referring to have to do with editing / making changes, that is, using the documents long-term. (See below on reusing documents vs. using templates.) Conversion back to Word Perfect: There is a problem (in addition to the ones mentioned for conversion _to_ Word) with Version 2002 (XP) and later of Word. The conversion file only works for conversion _to_ Word, not from Word to Word Perfect! Earlier versions went both ways. To fix this, you need to find the old conversion file WPFT532.CNV from a Word 97 or Word 2000 installation and copy it to your new installation, replacing the file of the same name. Note, the change making the file one-way was done as a security measure. While I don't know of any problems the old file causes, keep the new installation's file somewhere as a backup just in case. Boilerplate and Forms In WP a lot of people use macros to hold chunks of text - boilerplate. In Word this function is filled by Templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect, not macros. Follow the links at http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebre...s.htm#AutoText for more information on these tools. You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For more about online forms, follow the links at http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#Forms or http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...nTheBlanks.htm especially Dian Chapman's series of articles. You may also want to look at http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFl...nesInForms.htm. Reusing Documents vs. Using templates General practice in WP is to have a document and copy and edit it to create a new document. This is not good practice in Word. In Word, construct a good, tight, template for your documents and use that template when constructing new documents. Among other things, this can avoid embarrassing "metadata" (http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/metadata.htm) and things like surprise headers and footers from creeping into new documents. It's a lot of reading, I know. It's OK to chunk it down and do a bit each day, but I would recommend that you make it a top priority to do that bit each day. In the (short) long run, it will save you both time and grief. -- Charles Kenyon Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide See also the MVP FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/word which is awesome! --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn from my ignorance and your wisdom. "wordperfect is superior" wordperfect is wrote in message news I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find myself forced to use it. I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function. Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on what I am typing. Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them. It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce an outline. Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse? Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give us the power to see it and delete it. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t |
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#6
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
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take yet another lesson from wordperfect "reveal codes"
Ive read the articles; Ive read most the comments for this subject matter.
I am very frustrated and agree in general with pro-Wordperfect communications! I commonly receive word documents that are pre-formatted (Pre-designed style templates from word) that often contain cell errors! Example: The format in one cell is varied from the balance. I now understand the reason reveal formatting in Word 07 is worthless in correcting what seemed to be simple flaws. I made the mistake of attempting to correct an error in a time sensitive document this AM and here I am posting this comment because of such. Thank goodness I have a secretary that can take the TIME to correct the changes, by redoing the documents from scratch! I have ordered my divisions IT department to pilot a add on suggestion by Dian D. Chapman, Technical Consultant Microsoft MVP, MOS Certified, in hopes this reveal formatting feature will be enhanced to save time and energy. For this I/we thank you, Mrs. Chapman in advance. Regards, General Manager of US Corporate Services "wordperfect is superior" wrote: I have always disliked Word. It is an inferior product. However, I find myself forced to use it. I do not understand how people use it without a "reveal codes" function. Word takes over in too many instances and forces all sorts of formating on what I am typing. Why don't you make it possible for people to see the codes you insist on interjecting all over the place? That way we could delete them. It is a big mistake to write word processing programs as though whenever someone begins a line with a number, for example, they intend to produce an outline. Or, what about tabs that mysteriously become impervious to the mouse? Get rid of all this automatic formatting!!!! Or, at the very least, give us the power to see it and delete it. ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t |
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