[Hans L]

I have a Word rtf file with a page whose text goes from the top of the
page to the bottom of the page, overrunning headers well as footer. It
is a table.


By using CrossEyes, I could see that there were a few frames in there,
screwing things up *this is a scanned file, and I think frames were
automatically introduced).

By converting the table to text,, and then converting to table again,
the frames showed up, and I could delete them.

Now, the questions:

- how can you find frames in a Word file without having to guess where
they are?

- is there any way to search for, e.g., the word "Frame" in CrossEyes.
It seems to make so much sense, but I have not found a search function
in it.

Hope someone has a few answers.

Regards,

Hans L

--

[Stefan Blom]

I can't comment on CrossEyes, which I'm not familiar with. However, in
Word, you can display text boundaries: On the Tools menu, click
Options. Click the View tab. Select the "Text boundaries" option, and
click OK. Word will show dotted lines around any area that has text
(or a paragraph mark, ¶) in it. Thay way, it'll be easier to identify
frames (and text boxes) without borders.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


"Hans L" wrote:
I have a Word rtf file with a page whose text goes from the top of
the
page to the bottom of the page, overrunning headers well as footer.
It
is a table.


By using CrossEyes, I could see that there were a few frames in
there,
screwing things up *this is a scanned file, and I think frames were
automatically introduced).

By converting the table to text,, and then converting to table
again,
the frames showed up, and I could delete them.

Now, the questions:

- how can you find frames in a Word file without having to guess
where
they are?

- is there any way to search for, e.g., the word "Frame" in
CrossEyes.
It seems to make so much sense, but I have not found a search
function
in it.

Hope someone has a few answers.

Regards,

Hans L

--

[Hans L]

Thanks, Stefan. However, that did not help me finding the frames, a
few of which seems to be embedded in the table. Any tip?

Hans L


Stefan Blom wrote:

I can't comment on CrossEyes, which I'm not familiar with. However, in
Word, you can display text boundaries: On the Tools menu, click
Options. Click the View tab. Select the "Text boundaries" option, and
click OK. Word will show dotted lines around any area that has text
(or a paragraph mark, 6) in it. Thay way, it'll be easier to identify
frames (and text boxes) without borders.



--

[Cindy M -WordMVP-]

Hi Hans,

Thanks, Stefan. However, that did not help me finding the frames, a
few of which seems to be embedded in the table. Any tip?

Frames cannot be embedded in tables. Nor can textboxes. But textboxes can
be formatted to be in front of or behind a table.

What makes you think the "frames" are embedded in the table?

If these are textboxes, rather than frames, display the Drawing toolbar
and klick the button with the big white arrow. Now drage from one corner
of the page diagonallly down to the other corner (change the zoom so you
can do this easily). Any drawing object (including textboxes) should be
marked by little boxes around the sides.

I can't comment on CrossEyes, which I'm not familiar with. However, in
Word, you can display text boundaries: On the Tools menu, click
Options. Click the View tab. Select the "Text boundaries" option, and
click OK. Word will show dotted lines around any area that has text
(or a paragraph mark, 6) in it. Thay way, it'll be easier to identify
frames (and text boxes) without borders.


Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or
reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

[Hans L]

Hello Cindy:

Cindy M -WordMVP- wrote:

Hi Hans,

Thanks, Stefan. However, that did not help me finding the frames, a
few of which seems to be embedded in the table. Any tip?

Frames cannot be embedded in tables. Nor can textboxes. But textboxes
can be formatted to be in front of or behind a table.

What makes you think the "frames" are embedded in the table?

Because they were only visible after I had converted the table to text.
But I was obviously using the wrong terminology.


If these are textboxes, rather than frames, display the Drawing
toolbar and klick the button with the big white arrow. Now drage from
one corner of the page diagonallly down to the other corner (change
the zoom so you can do this easily). Any drawing object (including
textboxes) should be marked by little boxes around the sides.


CrossEyes showed that they were frames and when I right-clicked on
them, I got the menu with something like "Modify frame", and when I
clicked it, I could delete the frames.

The effect these frames have is that they somehow prevents the
page-breaking of the tables that cover them. That is how I know kinda'
that there probably are frames around. The tables start at the very
top of the page, covering any header that is there, and goes to the
bottom of the page, and it is not possible to scroll down to the bottom
of the tables.

Regards,

Hans L

[Cindy M -WordMVP-]

Hi Hans,

OK, if this is Word 2002 or 2003 (you haven't said) then a table can be
formatted to go over a frame. They still aren't embedded, but they can be
superimposed. It sounds like the problem is that, in these documents,
"floating" tables aren't *allowed* to break to the next page. If this is
Word 2002, then as I recall they simply can't. If it's Word 2003, it's a
setting in Tools/Options/Compatibility that's making the tables behave
like in Word 2002.

I'm guessing these RTF files were generated by a scanning software. And
this uses the tables and frames to recreate the original page layout.
Such documents are usually incredibly difficult to edit because the
scanning software is only concerned with making a "snapshot", not
creating an editable, Word document.

However, that did not help me finding the frames, a
few of which seems to be embedded in the table. Any tip?

Frames cannot be embedded in tables. Nor can textboxes. But textboxes
can be formatted to be in front of or behind a table.

What makes you think the "frames" are embedded in the table?

Because they were only visible after I had converted the table to text.
But I was obviously using the wrong terminology.


If these are textboxes, rather than frames, display the Drawing
toolbar and klick the button with the big white arrow. Now drage from
one corner of the page diagonallly down to the other corner (change
the zoom so you can do this easily). Any drawing object (including
textboxes) should be marked by little boxes around the sides.


CrossEyes showed that they were frames and when I right-clicked on
them, I got the menu with something like "Modify frame", and when I
clicked it, I could delete the frames.

The effect these frames have is that they somehow prevents the
page-breaking of the tables that cover them. That is how I know kinda'
that there probably are frames around. The tables start at the very
top of the page, covering any header that is there, and goes to the
bottom of the page, and it is not possible to scroll down to the bottom
of the tables.


Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow question or
reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)

[Hans L]

Cindy and everyone else, I really have to apologize for not saying that
I use Word 2000. But you are right, Cindy, that these tables are the
results of scanning.

I guess I will just continue doing what I did, namely, when I see
something suspect, I'll convert the table to text, scroll down to find
the frames or text boxes, delete them (but not the text), and then
convert to table again.

Thank you all for your help.

Regards,

Hans L


Cindy M -WordMVP- wrote:

Hi Hans,

OK, if this is Word 2002 or 2003 (you haven't said) then a table can
be formatted to go over a frame. They still aren't embedded, but they
can be superimposed. It sounds like the problem is that, in these
documents, "floating" tables aren't allowed to break to the next
page. If this is Word 2002, then as I recall they simply can't. If
it's Word 2003, it's a setting in Tools/Options/Compatibility that's
making the tables behave like in Word 2002.

I'm guessing these RTF files were generated by a scanning software.
And this uses the tables and frames to recreate the original page
layout. Such documents are usually incredibly difficult to edit
because the scanning software is only concerned with making a
"snapshot", not creating an editable, Word document.

However, that did not help me finding the frames, a
few of which seems to be embedded in the table. Any tip?

Frames cannot be embedded in tables. Nor can textboxes. But
textboxes can be formatted to be in front of or behind a table.

What makes you think the "frames" are embedded in the table?

Because they were only visible after I had converted the table to
text. But I was obviously using the wrong terminology.


If these are textboxes, rather than frames, display the Drawing
toolbar and klick the button with the big white arrow. Now drage
from one corner of the page diagonallly down to the other corner
(change the zoom so you can do this easily). Any drawing object
(including textboxes) should be marked by little boxes around the
sides.


CrossEyes showed that they were frames and when I right-clicked on
them, I got the menu with something like "Modify frame", and when I
clicked it, I could delete the frames.

The effect these frames have is that they somehow prevents the
page-breaking of the tables that cover them. That is how I know
kinda' that there probably are frames around. The tables start at
the very top of the page, covering any header that is there, and
goes to the bottom of the page, and it is not possible to scroll
down to the bottom of the tables.


Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jun 17 2005)
http://www.word.mvps.org

This reply is posted in the Newsgroup; please post any follow
question or reply in the newsgroup and not by e-mail :-)



--