Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
|
|||
|
|||
Rationale for frustrating datasource prompt
In Word 2003, when you open a mailmerge main document that’s attached to a
datasource that’s been moved or deleted, you get a confusing dialog asking to confirm the old datasource. (I’m not at a regular PC or I’d quote it; but anyone into mailmerge is probably familiar with it.) I know how to stop it, but I’m at a loss to explain to trainees why it happens. Just what IS the rationale for that dialog? I can’t fathom it being necessary or useful to ordinary users. My users often need to edit & reuse old mailmerge docs whose datasources are long gone. Is that such an arcane need? Why does Word not let them edit the merge doc, just because it has no datasource attached yet? The meaning of that dialog is over most users’ heads and I’d never seen it before 2003. Does anyone know the reason it was added? Thanks folks. MT |
#2
Posted to microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
|
|||
|
|||
Rationale for frustrating datasource prompt
You mean the one that says "abc.doc is a mail merge main document. Word
cannot find its data source, xyz.doc" or whatever, and has two buttons, "Find data source" and "Options" ? If so, a. I’d never seen it before 2003. Does anyone know the reason it was added? FWIW, a similar dialog has been there since Word for Windows 2 (where it says "abc.doc is a Print Merge Main Document which has the data file xyz.doc referenced in a {data} statement. Word was unable to open xyz.doc" and has 4 buttons, Switch/Locate Data File..., Remove Data Statement, Leave Data Statement and Help). In WfW1 you saw no message until you actually tried to merge. I'd suggest that a feature added in WfW2 probably wasn't added for the kind of security reasons that would probably be used now (e.g. you don't want malicious code to be able to jump in and modify a data source when the document is opening). I only mention that because the "started with 2003" thing suggests you might be talking about another dialog. However, it's also possible that you started to notice this dialog more in more recent versions of Word because, for example, if you create a merge applicaiton with a mail merge main document and .doc data source in the same folder, then move the application to a different folder, Word will (probably) find the data source without prompting, even though an unambiguous path name is embedded in the .doc file. Word will also look under "My DOcuments", and probably other places as well. However, if your data source is a .mdb, Word will probably /not/ find a relocated .mdb automatically. So if you always used .docs, the problem may not appear so often. As usual, you really have to ask the Word developers what their rationale was for adding this. I suppose the most obvious possibility is that if you provide a mailmerge "application" to an end user then when they open the mailmerge main document and the data source has gone, Word can either a. do nothing or b. display an error, then drop the user in the document or c. do something along the lines of what it does now or d. perhaps something else I haven't even considered The trouble with (a) and (b) is that the user is supposed to be using this application: how do they know what to do next? You could argue that in that case the mailmerge application is broken (cf. an application with a missing dll) and that either the user should know how to fix it (by finding the right menu and connecting a new data source) or should basically report the problem to their IT people as with any other faulty application. But I guess MS chose to provide a more interventionist interface. It seems to me that there are several problems with the existing modus operandi and dialog, some of which are probably conseqeunces of the overall design of mailmerge in Word: a. Word sometimes searches, and sometimes does not, as I have suggested. This may be confusing in itself. In particular, if you copy a mail merge main document and a .doc data source to another folder, Word will still open the original data source. b. Word goes through this process and displays the dialog before any VBA executes, so a programmer cannot detect a "missing data source" situation and do something about it. c. If the data source cannot be found, there is no option that leaves the /information/ about the data source in the document. So anyone who wants to know the datasource name, connection string and query can only easily do so if the data source still exists. People who are upgrading/reorganising systems are stuck - they can't open the document to discover the details, and VBA can't find out for them/ d. There probably isn't a great deal of difference in practice between the "remove header source and data source" and "remove all merge info" options unless you have a label or envelope merge where Word is, I suppose, more likely to lead you to the envelope/label dialog if you change the merge type back to "not a merge" then try to set it up as a label or envelope merge. However, in either case, you lose a lot more than the name of the data source - you lose the connection string and query, which means you lose any sort and filter options. You probably also lose individual selections made in the Mailmerge Recipients dialog. To me, maybe it would have been better to be able to retain the /information/ and merely toggle the merge functionailty on and off. e. if you don't know how merge works, the dialogs seem to me to be fairly obtuse. Even if you do, it's not completely clear what the options will do. And these are not the only dialogs you may face when opening a mail merge main document - you may also get the SQL dialog issued by Word, and you are also much more likely to get dialogs from other applications now. So the user potentially has to wade through a barrage of dialogs. There's probably other stuff, but that's perhaps enough for now. Personally I think it would be rather better if Word allowed the start-up behaviour to be determined document-by-document, allowed the merge information to be inspected by code prior to any dialogs, and allowed retention of merge information even when the document is not actively configured to be a merge document (although some people might of course say that retention of invisible information like that is potentially a security risk). -- Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk "Mark Tangard" wrote in message ... In Word 2003, when you open a mailmerge main document that’s attached to a datasource that’s been moved or deleted, you get a confusing dialog asking to confirm the old datasource. (I’m not at a regular PC or I’d quote it; but anyone into mailmerge is probably familiar with it.) I know how to stop it, but I’m at a loss to explain to trainees why it happens. Just what IS the rationale for that dialog? I can’t fathom it being necessary or useful to ordinary users. My users often need to edit & reuse old mailmerge docs whose datasources are long gone. Is that such an arcane need? Why does Word not let them edit the merge doc, just because it has no datasource attached yet? The meaning of that dialog is over most users’ heads and I’d never seen it before 2003. Does anyone know the reason it was added? Thanks folks. MT |
#3
Posted to microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
|
|||
|
|||
Rationale for frustrating datasource prompt
It's not either of the dialogs you mention -- and of course, now I can't
reproduce it no matter how much I taunt Word; go figure. Well, maybe one of your users will run into it again soon. I probably run into it as well but my memory's shot these days and I don't write enough down... Peter Jamieson "Mark Tangard" wrote in message ... Hi Peter, Intesting insights, and I totally agree on your final paragraph. It's not either of the dialogs you mention -- and of course, now I can't reproduce it no matter how much I taunt Word; go figure. (All these years I've just snarled at it.) Was just looking for some fuel for explaining it to one of my users. Thanks for that. Mark Peter Jamieson wrote: You mean the one that says "abc.doc is a mail merge main document. Word cannot find its data source, xyz.doc" or whatever, and has two buttons, "Find data source" and "Options" ? If so, a. I’d never seen it before 2003. Does anyone know the reason it was added? FWIW, a similar dialog has been there since Word for Windows 2 (where it says "abc.doc is a Print Merge Main Document which has the data file xyz.doc referenced in a {data} statement. Word was unable to open xyz.doc" and has 4 buttons, Switch/Locate Data File..., Remove Data Statement, Leave Data Statement and Help). In WfW1 you saw no message until you actually tried to merge. I'd suggest that a feature added in WfW2 probably wasn't added for the kind of security reasons that would probably be used now (e.g. you don't want malicious code to be able to jump in and modify a data source when the document is opening). I only mention that because the "started with 2003" thing suggests you might be talking about another dialog. However, it's also possible that you started to notice this dialog more in more recent versions of Word because, for example, if you create a merge applicaiton with a mail merge main document and .doc data source in the same folder, then move the application to a different folder, Word will (probably) find the data source without prompting, even though an unambiguous path name is embedded in the .doc file. Word will also look under "My DOcuments", and probably other places as well. However, if your data source is a .mdb, Word will probably /not/ find a relocated .mdb automatically. So if you always used .docs, the problem may not appear so often. As usual, you really have to ask the Word developers what their rationale was for adding this. I suppose the most obvious possibility is that if you provide a mailmerge "application" to an end user then when they open the mailmerge main document and the data source has gone, Word can either a. do nothing or b. display an error, then drop the user in the document or c. do something along the lines of what it does now or d. perhaps something else I haven't even considered The trouble with (a) and (b) is that the user is supposed to be using this application: how do they know what to do next? You could argue that in that case the mailmerge application is broken (cf. an application with a missing dll) and that either the user should know how to fix it (by finding the right menu and connecting a new data source) or should basically report the problem to their IT people as with any other faulty application. But I guess MS chose to provide a more interventionist interface. It seems to me that there are several problems with the existing modus operandi and dialog, some of which are probably conseqeunces of the overall design of mailmerge in Word: a. Word sometimes searches, and sometimes does not, as I have suggested. This may be confusing in itself. In particular, if you copy a mail merge main document and a .doc data source to another folder, Word will still open the original data source. b. Word goes through this process and displays the dialog before any VBA executes, so a programmer cannot detect a "missing data source" situation and do something about it. c. If the data source cannot be found, there is no option that leaves the /information/ about the data source in the document. So anyone who wants to know the datasource name, connection string and query can only easily do so if the data source still exists. People who are upgrading/reorganising systems are stuck - they can't open the document to discover the details, and VBA can't find out for them/ d. There probably isn't a great deal of difference in practice between the "remove header source and data source" and "remove all merge info" options unless you have a label or envelope merge where Word is, I suppose, more likely to lead you to the envelope/label dialog if you change the merge type back to "not a merge" then try to set it up as a label or envelope merge. However, in either case, you lose a lot more than the name of the data source - you lose the connection string and query, which means you lose any sort and filter options. You probably also lose individual selections made in the Mailmerge Recipients dialog. To me, maybe it would have been better to be able to retain the /information/ and merely toggle the merge functionailty on and off. e. if you don't know how merge works, the dialogs seem to me to be fairly obtuse. Even if you do, it's not completely clear what the options will do. And these are not the only dialogs you may face when opening a mail merge main document - you may also get the SQL dialog issued by Word, and you are also much more likely to get dialogs from other applications now. So the user potentially has to wade through a barrage of dialogs. There's probably other stuff, but that's perhaps enough for now. Personally I think it would be rather better if Word allowed the start-up behaviour to be determined document-by-document, allowed the merge information to be inspected by code prior to any dialogs, and allowed retention of merge information even when the document is not actively configured to be a merge document (although some people might of course say that retention of invisible information like that is potentially a security risk). |
#4
Posted to microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
|
|||
|
|||
Rationale for frustrating datasource prompt
Hi Peter,
Intesting insights, and I totally agree on your final paragraph. It's not either of the dialogs you mention -- and of course, now I can't reproduce it no matter how much I taunt Word; go figure. (All these years I've just snarled at it.) Was just looking for some fuel for explaining it to one of my users. Thanks for that. Mark Peter Jamieson wrote: You mean the one that says "abc.doc is a mail merge main document. Word cannot find its data source, xyz.doc" or whatever, and has two buttons, "Find data source" and "Options" ? If so, a. I’d never seen it before 2003. Does anyone know the reason it was added? FWIW, a similar dialog has been there since Word for Windows 2 (where it says "abc.doc is a Print Merge Main Document which has the data file xyz.doc referenced in a {data} statement. Word was unable to open xyz.doc" and has 4 buttons, Switch/Locate Data File..., Remove Data Statement, Leave Data Statement and Help). In WfW1 you saw no message until you actually tried to merge. I'd suggest that a feature added in WfW2 probably wasn't added for the kind of security reasons that would probably be used now (e.g. you don't want malicious code to be able to jump in and modify a data source when the document is opening). I only mention that because the "started with 2003" thing suggests you might be talking about another dialog. However, it's also possible that you started to notice this dialog more in more recent versions of Word because, for example, if you create a merge applicaiton with a mail merge main document and .doc data source in the same folder, then move the application to a different folder, Word will (probably) find the data source without prompting, even though an unambiguous path name is embedded in the .doc file. Word will also look under "My DOcuments", and probably other places as well. However, if your data source is a .mdb, Word will probably /not/ find a relocated .mdb automatically. So if you always used .docs, the problem may not appear so often. As usual, you really have to ask the Word developers what their rationale was for adding this. I suppose the most obvious possibility is that if you provide a mailmerge "application" to an end user then when they open the mailmerge main document and the data source has gone, Word can either a. do nothing or b. display an error, then drop the user in the document or c. do something along the lines of what it does now or d. perhaps something else I haven't even considered The trouble with (a) and (b) is that the user is supposed to be using this application: how do they know what to do next? You could argue that in that case the mailmerge application is broken (cf. an application with a missing dll) and that either the user should know how to fix it (by finding the right menu and connecting a new data source) or should basically report the problem to their IT people as with any other faulty application. But I guess MS chose to provide a more interventionist interface. It seems to me that there are several problems with the existing modus operandi and dialog, some of which are probably conseqeunces of the overall design of mailmerge in Word: a. Word sometimes searches, and sometimes does not, as I have suggested. This may be confusing in itself. In particular, if you copy a mail merge main document and a .doc data source to another folder, Word will still open the original data source. b. Word goes through this process and displays the dialog before any VBA executes, so a programmer cannot detect a "missing data source" situation and do something about it. c. If the data source cannot be found, there is no option that leaves the /information/ about the data source in the document. So anyone who wants to know the datasource name, connection string and query can only easily do so if the data source still exists. People who are upgrading/reorganising systems are stuck - they can't open the document to discover the details, and VBA can't find out for them/ d. There probably isn't a great deal of difference in practice between the "remove header source and data source" and "remove all merge info" options unless you have a label or envelope merge where Word is, I suppose, more likely to lead you to the envelope/label dialog if you change the merge type back to "not a merge" then try to set it up as a label or envelope merge. However, in either case, you lose a lot more than the name of the data source - you lose the connection string and query, which means you lose any sort and filter options. You probably also lose individual selections made in the Mailmerge Recipients dialog. To me, maybe it would have been better to be able to retain the /information/ and merely toggle the merge functionailty on and off. e. if you don't know how merge works, the dialogs seem to me to be fairly obtuse. Even if you do, it's not completely clear what the options will do. And these are not the only dialogs you may face when opening a mail merge main document - you may also get the SQL dialog issued by Word, and you are also much more likely to get dialogs from other applications now. So the user potentially has to wade through a barrage of dialogs. There's probably other stuff, but that's perhaps enough for now. Personally I think it would be rather better if Word allowed the start-up behaviour to be determined document-by-document, allowed the merge information to be inspected by code prior to any dialogs, and allowed retention of merge information even when the document is not actively configured to be a merge document (although some people might of course say that retention of invisible information like that is potentially a security risk). |
#5
Posted to microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
|
|||
|
|||
Rationale for frustrating datasource prompt
Hi Peter,
Intesting insights, and I totally agree on your final paragraph. It's not either of the dialogs you mention -- and of course, now I can't reproduce it no matter how much I taunt Word; go figure. (All these years I've just snarled at it.) Was just looking for some fuel for explaining it to one of my users. Thanks for that. Mark Peter Jamieson wrote: You mean the one that says "abc.doc is a mail merge main document. Word cannot find its data source, xyz.doc" or whatever, and has two buttons, "Find data source" and "Options" ? If so, a. I’d never seen it before 2003. Does anyone know the reason it was added? FWIW, a similar dialog has been there since Word for Windows 2 (where it says "abc.doc is a Print Merge Main Document which has the data file xyz.doc referenced in a {data} statement. Word was unable to open xyz.doc" and has 4 buttons, Switch/Locate Data File..., Remove Data Statement, Leave Data Statement and Help). In WfW1 you saw no message until you actually tried to merge. I'd suggest that a feature added in WfW2 probably wasn't added for the kind of security reasons that would probably be used now (e.g. you don't want malicious code to be able to jump in and modify a data source when the document is opening). I only mention that because the "started with 2003" thing suggests you might be talking about another dialog. However, it's also possible that you started to notice this dialog more in more recent versions of Word because, for example, if you create a merge applicaiton with a mail merge main document and .doc data source in the same folder, then move the application to a different folder, Word will (probably) find the data source without prompting, even though an unambiguous path name is embedded in the .doc file. Word will also look under "My DOcuments", and probably other places as well. However, if your data source is a .mdb, Word will probably /not/ find a relocated .mdb automatically. So if you always used .docs, the problem may not appear so often. As usual, you really have to ask the Word developers what their rationale was for adding this. I suppose the most obvious possibility is that if you provide a mailmerge "application" to an end user then when they open the mailmerge main document and the data source has gone, Word can either a. do nothing or b. display an error, then drop the user in the document or c. do something along the lines of what it does now or d. perhaps something else I haven't even considered The trouble with (a) and (b) is that the user is supposed to be using this application: how do they know what to do next? You could argue that in that case the mailmerge application is broken (cf. an application with a missing dll) and that either the user should know how to fix it (by finding the right menu and connecting a new data source) or should basically report the problem to their IT people as with any other faulty application. But I guess MS chose to provide a more interventionist interface. It seems to me that there are several problems with the existing modus operandi and dialog, some of which are probably conseqeunces of the overall design of mailmerge in Word: a. Word sometimes searches, and sometimes does not, as I have suggested. This may be confusing in itself. In particular, if you copy a mail merge main document and a .doc data source to another folder, Word will still open the original data source. b. Word goes through this process and displays the dialog before any VBA executes, so a programmer cannot detect a "missing data source" situation and do something about it. c. If the data source cannot be found, there is no option that leaves the /information/ about the data source in the document. So anyone who wants to know the datasource name, connection string and query can only easily do so if the data source still exists. People who are upgrading/reorganising systems are stuck - they can't open the document to discover the details, and VBA can't find out for them/ d. There probably isn't a great deal of difference in practice between the "remove header source and data source" and "remove all merge info" options unless you have a label or envelope merge where Word is, I suppose, more likely to lead you to the envelope/label dialog if you change the merge type back to "not a merge" then try to set it up as a label or envelope merge. However, in either case, you lose a lot more than the name of the data source - you lose the connection string and query, which means you lose any sort and filter options. You probably also lose individual selections made in the Mailmerge Recipients dialog. To me, maybe it would have been better to be able to retain the /information/ and merely toggle the merge functionailty on and off. e. if you don't know how merge works, the dialogs seem to me to be fairly obtuse. Even if you do, it's not completely clear what the options will do. And these are not the only dialogs you may face when opening a mail merge main document - you may also get the SQL dialog issued by Word, and you are also much more likely to get dialogs from other applications now. So the user potentially has to wade through a barrage of dialogs. There's probably other stuff, but that's perhaps enough for now. Personally I think it would be rather better if Word allowed the start-up behaviour to be determined document-by-document, allowed the merge information to be inspected by code prior to any dialogs, and allowed retention of merge information even when the document is not actively configured to be a merge document (although some people might of course say that retention of invisible information like that is potentially a security risk). |
#6
Posted to microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
|
|||
|
|||
Rationale for frustrating datasource prompt
It's not the message titled "Security warning" that says
Opening "the pathname of a .mdb file" "This file may not be safe if it contains code intended to harm your computer..." etc. ? If so, I think you only get /that/ one when you open a .mdb using DDE and the warning is actually issued by Access and can be fixed in the usual ways (modify macro security levels in Access, sign code etc.) -- Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk "Mark Tangard" wrote in message ... Hi Peter, Intesting insights, and I totally agree on your final paragraph. It's not either of the dialogs you mention -- and of course, now I can't reproduce it no matter how much I taunt Word; go figure. (All these years I've just snarled at it.) Was just looking for some fuel for explaining it to one of my users. Thanks for that. Mark Peter Jamieson wrote: You mean the one that says "abc.doc is a mail merge main document. Word cannot find its data source, xyz.doc" or whatever, and has two buttons, "Find data source" and "Options" ? If so, a. I’d never seen it before 2003. Does anyone know the reason it was added? FWIW, a similar dialog has been there since Word for Windows 2 (where it says "abc.doc is a Print Merge Main Document which has the data file xyz.doc referenced in a {data} statement. Word was unable to open xyz.doc" and has 4 buttons, Switch/Locate Data File..., Remove Data Statement, Leave Data Statement and Help). In WfW1 you saw no message until you actually tried to merge. I'd suggest that a feature added in WfW2 probably wasn't added for the kind of security reasons that would probably be used now (e.g. you don't want malicious code to be able to jump in and modify a data source when the document is opening). I only mention that because the "started with 2003" thing suggests you might be talking about another dialog. However, it's also possible that you started to notice this dialog more in more recent versions of Word because, for example, if you create a merge applicaiton with a mail merge main document and .doc data source in the same folder, then move the application to a different folder, Word will (probably) find the data source without prompting, even though an unambiguous path name is embedded in the .doc file. Word will also look under "My DOcuments", and probably other places as well. However, if your data source is a .mdb, Word will probably /not/ find a relocated .mdb automatically. So if you always used .docs, the problem may not appear so often. As usual, you really have to ask the Word developers what their rationale was for adding this. I suppose the most obvious possibility is that if you provide a mailmerge "application" to an end user then when they open the mailmerge main document and the data source has gone, Word can either a. do nothing or b. display an error, then drop the user in the document or c. do something along the lines of what it does now or d. perhaps something else I haven't even considered The trouble with (a) and (b) is that the user is supposed to be using this application: how do they know what to do next? You could argue that in that case the mailmerge application is broken (cf. an application with a missing dll) and that either the user should know how to fix it (by finding the right menu and connecting a new data source) or should basically report the problem to their IT people as with any other faulty application. But I guess MS chose to provide a more interventionist interface. It seems to me that there are several problems with the existing modus operandi and dialog, some of which are probably conseqeunces of the overall design of mailmerge in Word: a. Word sometimes searches, and sometimes does not, as I have suggested. This may be confusing in itself. In particular, if you copy a mail merge main document and a .doc data source to another folder, Word will still open the original data source. b. Word goes through this process and displays the dialog before any VBA executes, so a programmer cannot detect a "missing data source" situation and do something about it. c. If the data source cannot be found, there is no option that leaves the /information/ about the data source in the document. So anyone who wants to know the datasource name, connection string and query can only easily do so if the data source still exists. People who are upgrading/reorganising systems are stuck - they can't open the document to discover the details, and VBA can't find out for them/ d. There probably isn't a great deal of difference in practice between the "remove header source and data source" and "remove all merge info" options unless you have a label or envelope merge where Word is, I suppose, more likely to lead you to the envelope/label dialog if you change the merge type back to "not a merge" then try to set it up as a label or envelope merge. However, in either case, you lose a lot more than the name of the data source - you lose the connection string and query, which means you lose any sort and filter options. You probably also lose individual selections made in the Mailmerge Recipients dialog. To me, maybe it would have been better to be able to retain the /information/ and merely toggle the merge functionailty on and off. e. if you don't know how merge works, the dialogs seem to me to be fairly obtuse. Even if you do, it's not completely clear what the options will do. And these are not the only dialogs you may face when opening a mail merge main document - you may also get the SQL dialog issued by Word, and you are also much more likely to get dialogs from other applications now. So the user potentially has to wade through a barrage of dialogs. There's probably other stuff, but that's perhaps enough for now. Personally I think it would be rather better if Word allowed the start-up behaviour to be determined document-by-document, allowed the merge information to be inspected by code prior to any dialogs, and allowed retention of merge information even when the document is not actively configured to be a merge document (although some people might of course say that retention of invisible information like that is potentially a security risk). |
#7
Posted to microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
|
|||
|
|||
Rationale for frustrating datasource prompt
No, it's not that one. (That one would surprise me a lot less...) Ah well.
MT Peter Jamieson wrote: It's not the message titled "Security warning" that says Opening "the pathname of a .mdb file" "This file may not be safe if it contains code intended to harm your computer..." etc. ? If so, I think you only get /that/ one when you open a .mdb using DDE and the warning is actually issued by Access and can be fixed in the usual ways (modify macro security levels in Access, sign code etc.) |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Frustrating problems with html signatures and styles (normal.dot) | New Users | |||
Typing my name in MLA format a frustrating help box pops up. Help | Page Layout | |||
Styles and formatting are so frustrating!!! | New Users | |||
Stuck a Page 0 - extremely frustrating | Page Layout | |||
Frustrating bold/spacing problem | New Users |