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OhioTech OhioTech is offline
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Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

Word 2002

Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25

Change paper size to Custom 7 x 9

Message: One or more margins are set outside the printable area of the
page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate margins.

Click Fix.

Word changed margins to Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.
OK

Message: The settings you chose for the left and right margins, column
spacing, or paragraph indents are too large for the page width in some
sections.

Why did Word change to margins that are no good?

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TF TF is offline
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Posts: 179
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

This is almost certainly because the print driver does not support 7 x 9
paper size. It is Word interrogating the print driver that determines the
minimum margins and paper size permitted. Try a different printer (and
driver) and test to see if it works correctly.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP
http://word.mvps.org/


"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: Word 2002
:
: Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
: Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25
:
: Change paper size to Custom 7 x 9
:
: Message: One or more margins are set outside the printable area of the
: page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate margins.
:
: Click Fix.
:
: Word changed margins to Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.
: OK
:
: Message: The settings you chose for the left and right margins, column
: spacing, or paragraph indents are too large for the page width in some
: sections.
:
: Why did Word change to margins that are no good?
:


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OhioTech OhioTech is offline
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Posts: 12
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

Word is not helpful in these ways:
Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not resolve problem; instead
Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9, then
Word blames user for choosing bad values.


This is NOT user friendly!

I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK; just load
paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The printer
printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I expected.
If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.

I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11 should be
a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the problem with a
smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we see it on
screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the printer.

I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
I'm greatly disappointed.



"TF" wrote:

This is almost certainly because the print driver does not support 7 x 9
paper size. It is Word interrogating the print driver that determines the
minimum margins and paper size permitted. Try a different printer (and
driver) and test to see if it works correctly.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP
http://word.mvps.org/


"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: Word 2002
:
: Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
: Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25
:
: Change paper size to Custom 7 x 9
:
: Message: One or more margins are set outside the printable area of the
: page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate margins.
:
: Click Fix.
:
: Word changed margins to Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.
: OK
:
: Message: The settings you chose for the left and right margins, column
: spacing, or paragraph indents are too large for the page width in some
: sections.
:
: Why did Word change to margins that are no good?
:



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TF TF is offline
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Posts: 179
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

I say again that this is not really a Word problem. I can certainly do
custom sizes smaller using a Canon printer driver. Maybe your printer driver
is corrupt or out of date. Check to see if there is a newer driver and then
delete and reinstall the driver.

Word has not change the margins to an invalid value off its own bat: it is
the printer driver that determines these settings and NOT Word. Where does
Word blame the user?

Surely IGNORE needs no definition. It means the same in any version of the
English Language.

Printable Area is defined as 'Area that is Printable'. Every printer (well
standard home/office printers) has a narrow unprintable area around the page
(unprintable border). Older InkJets had a huge unprintable area at the
bottom of the page, but usually the unprintable area these days is around
5mm all around the page.

If you want to print to the edge of a page, you need to go to a print shop
where they have printers that 'bleed' to the edges. (Many Photo Printers
have an option to print photo to the edges of special paper though.)

Terry

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: Word is not helpful in these ways:
: Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
: Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
: Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
: Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not resolve
problem; instead
: Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9, then
: Word blames user for choosing bad values.
:
: This is NOT user friendly!
:
: I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK; just
load
: paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The printer
: printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I
expected.
: If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.
:
: I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11 should
be
: a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the problem with
a
: smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we see it
on
: screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the printer.
:
: I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
: I'm greatly disappointed.
:


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Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
OhioTech OhioTech is offline
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Posts: 12
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

(See WORKAROUND at bottom)

Review the original problem:

Start Word, new document. Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25

Change paper size to 7 x 9

Word shows message A: "One or more margins are set outside the printable
area of the page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate margins."

$ Question 1: What is a "printable area"? Look in Word Help; it's Not Found.
Technical terms in messages should be defined in Help; this is a Word problem.

$ Question 2: What is the specific printable area in this case?
If Word determines this from the print driver, why can't Word display it to
me?

$ Question 3: Which margin (shown for 8.5 x 11 doc) is "set outside" the
"printable area"? If Word determines this from the print driver, why can't
Word tell me which margin is a problem?

I then clicked Fix, as Word told me to do.

Word changed the margins to: Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.

$ Question 4: On a 7x9 document, how did Word calculate each of these
margins? Even a new user can see the Bottom, Left, and Right margins are
INVALID. Word approved the changes knowing the doc size, so it's another Word
problem.

After clicking OK, Word shows message B: "The settings you chose for the
left and right margins, column spacing, or paragraph indents are too large
for the page width in some sections."

$ Question 5: Why does Word blame me (the settings YOU chose) for changing
the margins?
I did not enter the new margins. The only other party here that I know about
is Word. Word told me to click Fix. As a new user, I know nothing about Word
interacting with print drivers.
A more accurate and helpful message is: "The current print driver has
determined a new Left margin value, which is invalid. For more information,
see Help under xxxxx."

$ Clicking on Ignore, and then entering data into doc, do Print preview, the
data is not there. Ignore evidently means more than simply ignore the
message.

WORKAROUND

Lexmark Tech Support suggested this:
Go to Control Panel, Printers, Properties (of specific printer being used),
Printing Preferences, Paper Setup. Select Custom size, enter 7 x 9.

Repeat exercise in Word. Now I do not get message A.

Then I go back to Control Panel and change back to standard Letter (8.5 x
11).

Repeat exercise in Word. I still do not get message A.
In Word, change paper size to other custom sizes. No message A.

What has happened? It appears that going into Control Panel and specifying
7x9 custom size has told Word that ANY custom size is OK from now on (even
after Control Panel shows standard Letter again).

And I do not know how to make the problem occur again.
This also causes confusion!

I would like to get more information about the relationship between Print
driver, Control Panel, and Word. For example, did Control Panel change the
print driver? What exactly does Word consult to determine "printable area"
and valid margins? Is it not reasonable to want to understand the rules?




"TF" wrote:

I say again that this is not really a Word problem. I can certainly do
custom sizes smaller using a Canon printer driver. Maybe your printer driver
is corrupt or out of date. Check to see if there is a newer driver and then
delete and reinstall the driver.

Word has not change the margins to an invalid value off its own bat: it is
the printer driver that determines these settings and NOT Word. Where does
Word blame the user?

Surely IGNORE needs no definition. It means the same in any version of the
English Language.

Printable Area is defined as 'Area that is Printable'. Every printer (well
standard home/office printers) has a narrow unprintable area around the page
(unprintable border). Older InkJets had a huge unprintable area at the
bottom of the page, but usually the unprintable area these days is around
5mm all around the page.

If you want to print to the edge of a page, you need to go to a print shop
where they have printers that 'bleed' to the edges. (Many Photo Printers
have an option to print photo to the edges of special paper though.)

Terry

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: Word is not helpful in these ways:
: Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
: Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
: Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
: Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not resolve
problem; instead
: Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9, then
: Word blames user for choosing bad values.
:
: This is NOT user friendly!
:
: I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK; just
load
: paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The printer
: printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I
expected.
: If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.
:
: I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11 should
be
: a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the problem with
a
: smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we see it
on
: screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the printer.
:
: I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
: I'm greatly disappointed.
:





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Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
TF TF is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 179
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

Word interrogates the printer driver. There is nowhere else it can gain this
information. If the printer driver provides the wrong information to Word,
Word will display the wrong information. This is not Word's fault.

The printable area (or specifically the non-printable areas should be in the
Printer's documentation (usually set out as the minimum margins).

The programming side of Word is not public knowledge, but as the printer
manufacturers are able (usually) to write drivers, they must be give the
necessary information. Word uses the data provided by the printer driver to
calculate not just page margins but how to layout the page for the attached
printer.

Terry Farrell

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: (See WORKAROUND at bottom)
:
: Review the original problem:
:
: Start Word, new document. Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
: Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25
:
: Change paper size to 7 x 9
:
: Word shows message A: "One or more margins are set outside the printable
: area of the page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate
margins."
:
: $ Question 1: What is a "printable area"? Look in Word Help; it's Not
Found.
: Technical terms in messages should be defined in Help; this is a Word
problem.
:
: $ Question 2: What is the specific printable area in this case?
: If Word determines this from the print driver, why can't Word display it
to
: me?
:
: $ Question 3: Which margin (shown for 8.5 x 11 doc) is "set outside" the
: "printable area"? If Word determines this from the print driver, why
can't
: Word tell me which margin is a problem?
:
: I then clicked Fix, as Word told me to do.
:
: Word changed the margins to: Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.
:
: $ Question 4: On a 7x9 document, how did Word calculate each of these
: margins? Even a new user can see the Bottom, Left, and Right margins are
: INVALID. Word approved the changes knowing the doc size, so it's another
Word
: problem.
:
: After clicking OK, Word shows message B: "The settings you chose for the
: left and right margins, column spacing, or paragraph indents are too large
: for the page width in some sections."
:
: $ Question 5: Why does Word blame me (the settings YOU chose) for changing
: the margins?
: I did not enter the new margins. The only other party here that I know
about
: is Word. Word told me to click Fix. As a new user, I know nothing about
Word
: interacting with print drivers.
: A more accurate and helpful message is: "The current print driver has
: determined a new Left margin value, which is invalid. For more
information,
: see Help under xxxxx."
:
: $ Clicking on Ignore, and then entering data into doc, do Print preview,
the
: data is not there. Ignore evidently means more than simply ignore the
: message.
:
: WORKAROUND
:
: Lexmark Tech Support suggested this:
: Go to Control Panel, Printers, Properties (of specific printer being
used),
: Printing Preferences, Paper Setup. Select Custom size, enter 7 x 9.
:
: Repeat exercise in Word. Now I do not get message A.
:
: Then I go back to Control Panel and change back to standard Letter (8.5 x
: 11).
:
: Repeat exercise in Word. I still do not get message A.
: In Word, change paper size to other custom sizes. No message A.
:
: What has happened? It appears that going into Control Panel and specifying
: 7x9 custom size has told Word that ANY custom size is OK from now on (even
: after Control Panel shows standard Letter again).
:
: And I do not know how to make the problem occur again.
: This also causes confusion!
:
: I would like to get more information about the relationship between Print
: driver, Control Panel, and Word. For example, did Control Panel change the
: print driver? What exactly does Word consult to determine "printable area"
: and valid margins? Is it not reasonable to want to understand the rules?
:
:
:
:
: "TF" wrote:
:
: I say again that this is not really a Word problem. I can certainly do
: custom sizes smaller using a Canon printer driver. Maybe your printer
driver
: is corrupt or out of date. Check to see if there is a newer driver and
then
: delete and reinstall the driver.
:
: Word has not change the margins to an invalid value off its own bat: it
is
: the printer driver that determines these settings and NOT Word. Where
does
: Word blame the user?
:
: Surely IGNORE needs no definition. It means the same in any version of
the
: English Language.
:
: Printable Area is defined as 'Area that is Printable'. Every printer
(well
: standard home/office printers) has a narrow unprintable area around the
page
: (unprintable border). Older InkJets had a huge unprintable area at the
: bottom of the page, but usually the unprintable area these days is
around
: 5mm all around the page.
:
: If you want to print to the edge of a page, you need to go to a print
shop
: where they have printers that 'bleed' to the edges. (Many Photo Printers
: have an option to print photo to the edges of special paper though.)
:
: Terry
:
: "OhioTech" wrote in message
: ...
: : Word is not helpful in these ways:
: : Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
: : Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
: : Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
: : Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not
resolve
: problem; instead
: : Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9, then
: : Word blames user for choosing bad values.
: :
: : This is NOT user friendly!
: :
: : I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK; just
: load
: : paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The
printer
: : printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I
: expected.
: : If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.
: :
: : I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11
should
: be
: : a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the problem
with
: a
: : smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we see
it
: on
: : screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the
printer.
: :
: : I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
: : I'm greatly disappointed.
: :
:
:
:


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Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
Suzanne S. Barnhill Suzanne S. Barnhill is offline
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Posts: 33,624
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

The second error message you got often results from a glitch in the Columns
setting. Go to Format | Columns, click on the preset picture for One and
click OK. See if that resolves the issue.

Alternatively, if Word and your printer won't cooperate to print a specific
small paper size, the standard workaround is to set the document up on a
standard size (US Letter, for example), increasing the margins as required
to locate the print area on the paper area.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
(See WORKAROUND at bottom)

Review the original problem:

Start Word, new document. Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25

Change paper size to 7 x 9

Word shows message A: "One or more margins are set outside the printable
area of the page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate

margins."

$ Question 1: What is a "printable area"? Look in Word Help; it's Not

Found.
Technical terms in messages should be defined in Help; this is a Word

problem.

$ Question 2: What is the specific printable area in this case?
If Word determines this from the print driver, why can't Word display it

to
me?

$ Question 3: Which margin (shown for 8.5 x 11 doc) is "set outside" the
"printable area"? If Word determines this from the print driver, why

can't
Word tell me which margin is a problem?

I then clicked Fix, as Word told me to do.

Word changed the margins to: Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.

$ Question 4: On a 7x9 document, how did Word calculate each of these
margins? Even a new user can see the Bottom, Left, and Right margins are
INVALID. Word approved the changes knowing the doc size, so it's another

Word
problem.

After clicking OK, Word shows message B: "The settings you chose for the
left and right margins, column spacing, or paragraph indents are too large
for the page width in some sections."

$ Question 5: Why does Word blame me (the settings YOU chose) for changing
the margins?
I did not enter the new margins. The only other party here that I know

about
is Word. Word told me to click Fix. As a new user, I know nothing about

Word
interacting with print drivers.
A more accurate and helpful message is: "The current print driver has
determined a new Left margin value, which is invalid. For more

information,
see Help under xxxxx."

$ Clicking on Ignore, and then entering data into doc, do Print preview,

the
data is not there. Ignore evidently means more than simply ignore the
message.

WORKAROUND

Lexmark Tech Support suggested this:
Go to Control Panel, Printers, Properties (of specific printer being

used),
Printing Preferences, Paper Setup. Select Custom size, enter 7 x 9.

Repeat exercise in Word. Now I do not get message A.

Then I go back to Control Panel and change back to standard Letter (8.5 x
11).

Repeat exercise in Word. I still do not get message A.
In Word, change paper size to other custom sizes. No message A.

What has happened? It appears that going into Control Panel and specifying
7x9 custom size has told Word that ANY custom size is OK from now on (even
after Control Panel shows standard Letter again).

And I do not know how to make the problem occur again.
This also causes confusion!

I would like to get more information about the relationship between Print
driver, Control Panel, and Word. For example, did Control Panel change the
print driver? What exactly does Word consult to determine "printable area"
and valid margins? Is it not reasonable to want to understand the rules?




"TF" wrote:

I say again that this is not really a Word problem. I can certainly do
custom sizes smaller using a Canon printer driver. Maybe your printer

driver
is corrupt or out of date. Check to see if there is a newer driver and

then
delete and reinstall the driver.

Word has not change the margins to an invalid value off its own bat: it

is
the printer driver that determines these settings and NOT Word. Where

does
Word blame the user?

Surely IGNORE needs no definition. It means the same in any version of

the
English Language.

Printable Area is defined as 'Area that is Printable'. Every printer

(well
standard home/office printers) has a narrow unprintable area around the

page
(unprintable border). Older InkJets had a huge unprintable area at the
bottom of the page, but usually the unprintable area these days is

around
5mm all around the page.

If you want to print to the edge of a page, you need to go to a print

shop
where they have printers that 'bleed' to the edges. (Many Photo Printers
have an option to print photo to the edges of special paper though.)

Terry

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: Word is not helpful in these ways:
: Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
: Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
: Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
: Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not

resolve
problem; instead
: Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9, then
: Word blames user for choosing bad values.
:
: This is NOT user friendly!
:
: I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK; just
load
: paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The

printer
: printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I
expected.
: If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.
:
: I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11

should
be
: a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the problem

with
a
: smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we see

it
on
: screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the

printer.
:
: I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
: I'm greatly disappointed.
:




  #8   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
OhioTech OhioTech is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

Evidently Word interrogates the settings in Control Panel also, cause that's
what I changed. Is that the same as what the Print Driver has? Who knows?

What I'm looking for is - what specific information did Word obtain in order
to change the margins as it did.

Example: Your manager asks for a 9" wrench. You ask your worker to get one
but he gives you a 12" wrench. Will you give the wrong tool to your manager,
or will you apply some Quality Assurance and tell the manager the wrong tool
has been presented to you?
If you do give the wrong tool to your manager, will he not say "You were
wrong in giving me this tool."?

This is what happened: The user requested 7 x 9 paper size.
Evidently the print driver information caused Word to think it needs these
margins:
Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.

Should Word know that a 9.5 margin is invalid on a document 9 inches high?
YES!
Word should apply QA and tell the user:
"The print driver has requested an invalid Bottom margin.
Please see xxxxx in Help for more information.".

And should not change margins to invalid values.

Not related to this forum: I write programs in VB.Net and am familiar with
various objects in Word. I have not investigated if the information that Word
obtains from Print Driver / Control Panel are objects that can be read. If a
print program is deployed to computers with various values in PD/CP, it seems
that the program should be able to read them and make appropriate decisions...


"TF" wrote:

Word interrogates the printer driver. There is nowhere else it can gain this
information. If the printer driver provides the wrong information to Word,
Word will display the wrong information. This is not Word's fault.

The printable area (or specifically the non-printable areas should be in the
Printer's documentation (usually set out as the minimum margins).

The programming side of Word is not public knowledge, but as the printer
manufacturers are able (usually) to write drivers, they must be give the
necessary information. Word uses the data provided by the printer driver to
calculate not just page margins but how to layout the page for the attached
printer.

Terry Farrell

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: (See WORKAROUND at bottom)
:
: Review the original problem:
:
: Start Word, new document. Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
: Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25
:
: Change paper size to 7 x 9
:
: Word shows message A: "One or more margins are set outside the printable
: area of the page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate
margins."
:
: $ Question 1: What is a "printable area"? Look in Word Help; it's Not
Found.
: Technical terms in messages should be defined in Help; this is a Word
problem.
:
: $ Question 2: What is the specific printable area in this case?
: If Word determines this from the print driver, why can't Word display it
to
: me?
:
: $ Question 3: Which margin (shown for 8.5 x 11 doc) is "set outside" the
: "printable area"? If Word determines this from the print driver, why
can't
: Word tell me which margin is a problem?
:
: I then clicked Fix, as Word told me to do.
:
: Word changed the margins to: Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.
:
: $ Question 4: On a 7x9 document, how did Word calculate each of these
: margins? Even a new user can see the Bottom, Left, and Right margins are
: INVALID. Word approved the changes knowing the doc size, so it's another
Word
: problem.
:
: After clicking OK, Word shows message B: "The settings you chose for the
: left and right margins, column spacing, or paragraph indents are too large
: for the page width in some sections."
:
: $ Question 5: Why does Word blame me (the settings YOU chose) for changing
: the margins?
: I did not enter the new margins. The only other party here that I know
about
: is Word. Word told me to click Fix. As a new user, I know nothing about
Word
: interacting with print drivers.
: A more accurate and helpful message is: "The current print driver has
: determined a new Left margin value, which is invalid. For more
information,
: see Help under xxxxx."
:
: $ Clicking on Ignore, and then entering data into doc, do Print preview,
the
: data is not there. Ignore evidently means more than simply ignore the
: message.
:
: WORKAROUND
:
: Lexmark Tech Support suggested this:
: Go to Control Panel, Printers, Properties (of specific printer being
used),
: Printing Preferences, Paper Setup. Select Custom size, enter 7 x 9.
:
: Repeat exercise in Word. Now I do not get message A.
:
: Then I go back to Control Panel and change back to standard Letter (8.5 x
: 11).
:
: Repeat exercise in Word. I still do not get message A.
: In Word, change paper size to other custom sizes. No message A.
:
: What has happened? It appears that going into Control Panel and specifying
: 7x9 custom size has told Word that ANY custom size is OK from now on (even
: after Control Panel shows standard Letter again).
:
: And I do not know how to make the problem occur again.
: This also causes confusion!
:
: I would like to get more information about the relationship between Print
: driver, Control Panel, and Word. For example, did Control Panel change the
: print driver? What exactly does Word consult to determine "printable area"
: and valid margins? Is it not reasonable to want to understand the rules?
:
:
:
:
: "TF" wrote:
:
: I say again that this is not really a Word problem. I can certainly do
: custom sizes smaller using a Canon printer driver. Maybe your printer
driver
: is corrupt or out of date. Check to see if there is a newer driver and
then
: delete and reinstall the driver.
:
: Word has not change the margins to an invalid value off its own bat: it
is
: the printer driver that determines these settings and NOT Word. Where
does
: Word blame the user?
:
: Surely IGNORE needs no definition. It means the same in any version of
the
: English Language.
:
: Printable Area is defined as 'Area that is Printable'. Every printer
(well
: standard home/office printers) has a narrow unprintable area around the
page
: (unprintable border). Older InkJets had a huge unprintable area at the
: bottom of the page, but usually the unprintable area these days is
around
: 5mm all around the page.
:
: If you want to print to the edge of a page, you need to go to a print
shop
: where they have printers that 'bleed' to the edges. (Many Photo Printers
: have an option to print photo to the edges of special paper though.)
:
: Terry
:
: "OhioTech" wrote in message
: ...
: : Word is not helpful in these ways:
: : Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
: : Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
: : Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
: : Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not
resolve
: problem; instead
: : Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9, then
: : Word blames user for choosing bad values.
: :
: : This is NOT user friendly!
: :
: : I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK; just
: load
: : paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The
printer
: : printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I
: expected.
: : If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.
: :
: : I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11
should
: be
: : a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the problem
with
: a
: : smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we see
it
: on
: : screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the
printer.
: :
: : I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
: : I'm greatly disappointed.
: :
:
:
:



  #9   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

Great detail. Agree with the sentiments. Hope you get the answer here.

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
(See WORKAROUND at bottom)

Review the original problem:

Start Word, new document. Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25

Change paper size to 7 x 9

Word shows message A: "One or more margins are set outside the printable
area of the page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate
margins."

$ Question 1: What is a "printable area"? Look in Word Help; it's Not
Found.
Technical terms in messages should be defined in Help; this is a Word
problem.

$ Question 2: What is the specific printable area in this case?
If Word determines this from the print driver, why can't Word display it
to
me?

$ Question 3: Which margin (shown for 8.5 x 11 doc) is "set outside" the
"printable area"? If Word determines this from the print driver, why
can't
Word tell me which margin is a problem?

I then clicked Fix, as Word told me to do.

Word changed the margins to: Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.

$ Question 4: On a 7x9 document, how did Word calculate each of these
margins? Even a new user can see the Bottom, Left, and Right margins are
INVALID. Word approved the changes knowing the doc size, so it's another
Word
problem.

After clicking OK, Word shows message B: "The settings you chose for the
left and right margins, column spacing, or paragraph indents are too large
for the page width in some sections."

$ Question 5: Why does Word blame me (the settings YOU chose) for changing
the margins?
I did not enter the new margins. The only other party here that I know
about
is Word. Word told me to click Fix. As a new user, I know nothing about
Word
interacting with print drivers.
A more accurate and helpful message is: "The current print driver has
determined a new Left margin value, which is invalid. For more
information,
see Help under xxxxx."

$ Clicking on Ignore, and then entering data into doc, do Print preview,
the
data is not there. Ignore evidently means more than simply ignore the
message.

WORKAROUND

Lexmark Tech Support suggested this:
Go to Control Panel, Printers, Properties (of specific printer being
used),
Printing Preferences, Paper Setup. Select Custom size, enter 7 x 9.

Repeat exercise in Word. Now I do not get message A.

Then I go back to Control Panel and change back to standard Letter (8.5 x
11).

Repeat exercise in Word. I still do not get message A.
In Word, change paper size to other custom sizes. No message A.

What has happened? It appears that going into Control Panel and specifying
7x9 custom size has told Word that ANY custom size is OK from now on (even
after Control Panel shows standard Letter again).

And I do not know how to make the problem occur again.
This also causes confusion!

I would like to get more information about the relationship between Print
driver, Control Panel, and Word. For example, did Control Panel change the
print driver? What exactly does Word consult to determine "printable area"
and valid margins? Is it not reasonable to want to understand the rules?




"TF" wrote:

I say again that this is not really a Word problem. I can certainly do
custom sizes smaller using a Canon printer driver. Maybe your printer
driver
is corrupt or out of date. Check to see if there is a newer driver and
then
delete and reinstall the driver.

Word has not change the margins to an invalid value off its own bat: it
is
the printer driver that determines these settings and NOT Word. Where
does
Word blame the user?

Surely IGNORE needs no definition. It means the same in any version of
the
English Language.

Printable Area is defined as 'Area that is Printable'. Every printer
(well
standard home/office printers) has a narrow unprintable area around the
page
(unprintable border). Older InkJets had a huge unprintable area at the
bottom of the page, but usually the unprintable area these days is around
5mm all around the page.

If you want to print to the edge of a page, you need to go to a print
shop
where they have printers that 'bleed' to the edges. (Many Photo Printers
have an option to print photo to the edges of special paper though.)

Terry

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: Word is not helpful in these ways:
: Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
: Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
: Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
: Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not
resolve
problem; instead
: Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9, then
: Word blames user for choosing bad values.
:
: This is NOT user friendly!
:
: I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK; just
load
: paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The
printer
: printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I
expected.
: If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.
:
: I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11
should
be
: a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the problem
with
a
: smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we see
it
on
: screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the
printer.
:
: I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
: I'm greatly disappointed.
:





  #10   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
[email protected] stadtchemnitz@arcor.de is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

test

TF wrote:

Word interrogates the printer driver. There is nowhere else it can gain this
information. If the printer driver provides the wrong information to Word,
Word will display the wrong information. This is not Word's fault.

The printable area (or specifically the non-printable areas should be in the
Printer's documentation (usually set out as the minimum margins).

The programming side of Word is not public knowledge, but as the printer
manufacturers are able (usually) to write drivers, they must be give the
necessary information. Word uses the data provided by the printer driver to
calculate not just page margins but how to layout the page for the attached
printer.

Terry Farrell

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: (See WORKAROUND at bottom)
:
: Review the original problem:
:
: Start Word, new document. Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
: Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25
:
: Change paper size to 7 x 9
:
: Word shows message A: "One or more margins are set outside the printable
: area of the page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate
margins."
:
: $ Question 1: What is a "printable area"? Look in Word Help; it's Not
Found.
: Technical terms in messages should be defined in Help; this is a Word
problem.
:
: $ Question 2: What is the specific printable area in this case?
: If Word determines this from the print driver, why can't Word display it
to
: me?
:
: $ Question 3: Which margin (shown for 8.5 x 11 doc) is "set outside" the
: "printable area"? If Word determines this from the print driver, why
can't
: Word tell me which margin is a problem?
:
: I then clicked Fix, as Word told me to do.
:
: Word changed the margins to: Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.
:
: $ Question 4: On a 7x9 document, how did Word calculate each of these
: margins? Even a new user can see the Bottom, Left, and Right margins are
: INVALID. Word approved the changes knowing the doc size, so it's another
Word
: problem.
:
: After clicking OK, Word shows message B: "The settings you chose for the
: left and right margins, column spacing, or paragraph indents are too large
: for the page width in some sections."
:
: $ Question 5: Why does Word blame me (the settings YOU chose) for changing
: the margins?
: I did not enter the new margins. The only other party here that I know
about
: is Word. Word told me to click Fix. As a new user, I know nothing about
Word
: interacting with print drivers.
: A more accurate and helpful message is: "The current print driver has
: determined a new Left margin value, which is invalid. For more
information,
: see Help under xxxxx."
:
: $ Clicking on Ignore, and then entering data into doc, do Print preview,
the
: data is not there. Ignore evidently means more than simply ignore the
: message.
:
: WORKAROUND
:
: Lexmark Tech Support suggested this:
: Go to Control Panel, Printers, Properties (of specific printer being
used),
: Printing Preferences, Paper Setup. Select Custom size, enter 7 x 9.
:
: Repeat exercise in Word. Now I do not get message A.
:
: Then I go back to Control Panel and change back to standard Letter (8.5 x
: 11).
:
: Repeat exercise in Word. I still do not get message A.
: In Word, change paper size to other custom sizes. No message A.
:
: What has happened? It appears that going into Control Panel and specifying
: 7x9 custom size has told Word that ANY custom size is OK from now on (even
: after Control Panel shows standard Letter again).
:
: And I do not know how to make the problem occur again.
: This also causes confusion!
:
: I would like to get more information about the relationship between Print
: driver, Control Panel, and Word. For example, did Control Panel change the
: print driver? What exactly does Word consult to determine "printable area"
: and valid margins? Is it not reasonable to want to understand the rules?
:
:
:
:
: "TF" wrote:
:
: I say again that this is not really a Word problem. I can certainly do
: custom sizes smaller using a Canon printer driver. Maybe your printer
driver
: is corrupt or out of date. Check to see if there is a newer driver and
then
: delete and reinstall the driver.
:
: Word has not change the margins to an invalid value off its own bat: it
is
: the printer driver that determines these settings and NOT Word. Where
does
: Word blame the user?
:
: Surely IGNORE needs no definition. It means the same in any version of
the
: English Language.
:
: Printable Area is defined as 'Area that is Printable'. Every printer
(well
: standard home/office printers) has a narrow unprintable area around the
page
: (unprintable border). Older InkJets had a huge unprintable area at the
: bottom of the page, but usually the unprintable area these days is
around
: 5mm all around the page.
:
: If you want to print to the edge of a page, you need to go to a print
shop
: where they have printers that 'bleed' to the edges. (Many Photo Printers
: have an option to print photo to the edges of special paper though.)
:
: Terry
:
: "OhioTech" wrote in message
: ...
: : Word is not helpful in these ways:
: : Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
: : Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
: : Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
: : Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not
resolve
: problem; instead
: : Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9, then
: : Word blames user for choosing bad values.
: :
: : This is NOT user friendly!
: :
: : I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK; just
: load
: : paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The
printer
: : printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I
: expected.
: : If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.
: :
: : I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11
should
: be
: : a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the problem
with
: a
: : smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we see
it
: on
: : screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the
printer.
: :
: : I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
: : I'm greatly disappointed.
: :
:
:
:



  #11   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.newusers
JoAnn Paules [MVP] JoAnn Paules [MVP] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,113
Default Change paper size; Word changes to invalid margins

Please stop this! If you need to test your system, there is a test newsgroup
specifically for this purpose.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]




wrote in message ...
test

TF wrote:

Word interrogates the printer driver. There is nowhere else it can gain
this
information. If the printer driver provides the wrong information to
Word,
Word will display the wrong information. This is not Word's fault.

The printable area (or specifically the non-printable areas should be in
the
Printer's documentation (usually set out as the minimum margins).

The programming side of Word is not public knowledge, but as the printer
manufacturers are able (usually) to write drivers, they must be give the
necessary information. Word uses the data provided by the printer driver
to
calculate not just page margins but how to layout the page for the
attached
printer.

Terry Farrell

"OhioTech" wrote in message
...
: (See WORKAROUND at bottom)
:
: Review the original problem:
:
: Start Word, new document. Default paper size: 8.5 x 11
: Margins: Top and bottom 1, Left and right 1.25
:
: Change paper size to 7 x 9
:
: Word shows message A: "One or more margins are set outside the
printable
: area of the page. Choose the Fix button to increase the appropriate
margins."
:
: $ Question 1: What is a "printable area"? Look in Word Help; it's Not
Found.
: Technical terms in messages should be defined in Help; this is a Word
problem.
:
: $ Question 2: What is the specific printable area in this case?
: If Word determines this from the print driver, why can't Word display
it
to
: me?
:
: $ Question 3: Which margin (shown for 8.5 x 11 doc) is "set outside"
the
: "printable area"? If Word determines this from the print driver, why
can't
: Word tell me which margin is a problem?
:
: I then clicked Fix, as Word told me to do.
:
: Word changed the margins to: Top 1, Bottom 9.5, Left 3.75, Right 3.75.
:
: $ Question 4: On a 7x9 document, how did Word calculate each of these
: margins? Even a new user can see the Bottom, Left, and Right margins
are
: INVALID. Word approved the changes knowing the doc size, so it's
another
Word
: problem.
:
: After clicking OK, Word shows message B: "The settings you chose for
the
: left and right margins, column spacing, or paragraph indents are too
large
: for the page width in some sections."
:
: $ Question 5: Why does Word blame me (the settings YOU chose) for
changing
: the margins?
: I did not enter the new margins. The only other party here that I know
about
: is Word. Word told me to click Fix. As a new user, I know nothing about
Word
: interacting with print drivers.
: A more accurate and helpful message is: "The current print driver has
: determined a new Left margin value, which is invalid. For more
information,
: see Help under xxxxx."
:
: $ Clicking on Ignore, and then entering data into doc, do Print
preview,
the
: data is not there. Ignore evidently means more than simply ignore the
: message.
:
: WORKAROUND
:
: Lexmark Tech Support suggested this:
: Go to Control Panel, Printers, Properties (of specific printer being
used),
: Printing Preferences, Paper Setup. Select Custom size, enter 7 x 9.
:
: Repeat exercise in Word. Now I do not get message A.
:
: Then I go back to Control Panel and change back to standard Letter (8.5
x
: 11).
:
: Repeat exercise in Word. I still do not get message A.
: In Word, change paper size to other custom sizes. No message A.
:
: What has happened? It appears that going into Control Panel and
specifying
: 7x9 custom size has told Word that ANY custom size is OK from now on
(even
: after Control Panel shows standard Letter again).
:
: And I do not know how to make the problem occur again.
: This also causes confusion!
:
: I would like to get more information about the relationship between
Print
: driver, Control Panel, and Word. For example, did Control Panel change
the
: print driver? What exactly does Word consult to determine "printable
area"
: and valid margins? Is it not reasonable to want to understand the
rules?
:
:
:
:
: "TF" wrote:
:
: I say again that this is not really a Word problem. I can certainly
do
: custom sizes smaller using a Canon printer driver. Maybe your printer
driver
: is corrupt or out of date. Check to see if there is a newer driver
and
then
: delete and reinstall the driver.
:
: Word has not change the margins to an invalid value off its own bat:
it
is
: the printer driver that determines these settings and NOT Word. Where
does
: Word blame the user?
:
: Surely IGNORE needs no definition. It means the same in any version
of
the
: English Language.
:
: Printable Area is defined as 'Area that is Printable'. Every printer
(well
: standard home/office printers) has a narrow unprintable area around
the
page
: (unprintable border). Older InkJets had a huge unprintable area at
the
: bottom of the page, but usually the unprintable area these days is
around
: 5mm all around the page.
:
: If you want to print to the edge of a page, you need to go to a print
shop
: where they have printers that 'bleed' to the edges. (Many Photo
Printers
: have an option to print photo to the edges of special paper though.)
:
: Terry
:
: "OhioTech" wrote in message
: ...
: : Word is not helpful in these ways:
: : Term "printable area" in message is not found in Word Help.
: : Word did not provide way for user to get additional information.
: : Word did not explain effect of clicking Ignore option.
: : Word tells user to click Fix to resolve problem, but it does not
resolve
: problem; instead
: : Word changed margins to INVALID values for paper size of 7 x 9,
then
: : Word blames user for choosing bad values.
: :
: : This is NOT user friendly!
: :
: : I checked with the printer manual; it states custom sizes are OK;
just
: load
: : paper on right side. I printed an Excel sheet on 7 x 9 paper. The
printer
: : printed the info and advanced the paper thru. That's exactly what I
: expected.
: : If it can do this, I'd say the print driver supports 7 x 9 paper.
: :
: : I wouldn't think that a paper size smaller than standard 8.5 x 11
should
: be
: : a problem. If the print driver supports 8.5 x 11, what's the
problem
with
: a
: : smaller size? The printed image starts at upper left corner as we
see
it
: on
: : screen, and transferred to actual paper as it is driven thru the
printer.
: :
: : I would think this would be a "piece of cake" for Word.
: : I'm greatly disappointed.
: :
:
:
:



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