[bill]

I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken into 2
sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields used for
data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie, editable only in the
forms). The bottom half of the page is the second section and must be
completely editable as I need to add figures and images to complete the
report. I used the Tools-Protect Document option, and selected Section 1
only for the "Filling in Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now allows
form data entry only and I can now import images into Section 2. The problem
is that the images are not editable (cannot select the Format Picture
function to resize or move the image) until I turn off the protection (which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second section to be
completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with Protection On in Section 1?

[Graham Mayor]

Protection for forms is best used ... for forms! For other types of
documents they are rarely a good idea. If you need free editing, you would
be better served by using another method to collect and insert data, eg
macrobutton fields http://www.gmayor.com/Macrobutton.htm or a userform For
the basics, see Word MVP FAQ - Userforms
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Userforms.htm

for a more in depth explanation, see
http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Create_and...a_UserForm.htm


Bill wrote:
I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken into
2 sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields
used for data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie,
editable only in the forms). The bottom half of the page is the
second section and must be completely editable as I need to add
figures and images to complete the report. I used the Tools-Protect
Document option, and selected Section 1 only for the "Filling in
Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now allows form data entry only
and I can now import images into Section 2. The problem is that the
images are not editable (cannot select the Format Picture function to
resize or move the image) until I turn off the protection (which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second
section to be completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with
Protection On in Section 1?

[bill]

Hmmm, I looked at your alternative solutions Graham, and it seems that we are
moving into a much more advanced area there and I don't really want to go
that route if I can avoid it (it will take some time for me to learn what a
userform and macros are!). Besides the Forms method is so simple - even a
caveman could it! - and as I am 90% of the way there, I want to see if there
is any way I can get this method to work...I still don't understand why the
second section has problems.

Yes, i agree that "protection for forms is best used for forms" and that is
why I only apply that protection to the first section and not the second.
Why is the "unprotected" 2nd section only partially editable? I can change
all the text properties of the section - paragraphs, fonts, etc - but why not
the properties of an image copied in there? Is this by design (surely not)
or am I missing something (hopefully yes!)?

"Bill" wrote:

I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken into 2
sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields used for
data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie, editable only in the
forms). The bottom half of the page is the second section and must be
completely editable as I need to add figures and images to complete the
report. I used the Tools-Protect Document option, and selected Section 1
only for the "Filling in Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now allows
form data entry only and I can now import images into Section 2. The problem
is that the images are not editable (cannot select the Format Picture
function to resize or move the image) until I turn off the protection (which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second section to be
completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with Protection On in Section 1?

[Terry Farrell]

Are you really creating a new section for the second part of the document or
are you just calling it the second section? Section has a specific meaning.

All you need to do is at the end your first section, Insert, Section Break,
Continuous. Now when you choose Protect, you have the option to select which
section to protect. Obviously, you choose Section 1 and clear section 2 and
start protecting.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, I looked at your alternative solutions Graham, and it seems that we
are
moving into a much more advanced area there and I don't really want to go
that route if I can avoid it (it will take some time for me to learn what
a
userform and macros are!). Besides the Forms method is so simple - even a
caveman could it! - and as I am 90% of the way there, I want to see if
there
is any way I can get this method to work...I still don't understand why
the
second section has problems.

Yes, i agree that "protection for forms is best used for forms" and that
is
why I only apply that protection to the first section and not the second.
Why is the "unprotected" 2nd section only partially editable? I can
change
all the text properties of the section - paragraphs, fonts, etc - but why
not
the properties of an image copied in there? Is this by design (surely
not)
or am I missing something (hopefully yes!)?

"Bill" wrote:

I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken into 2
sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields used
for
data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie, editable only in
the
forms). The bottom half of the page is the second section and must be
completely editable as I need to add figures and images to complete the
report. I used the Tools-Protect Document option, and selected Section
1
only for the "Filling in Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now allows
form data entry only and I can now import images into Section 2. The
problem
is that the images are not editable (cannot select the Format Picture
function to resize or move the image) until I turn off the protection
(which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second section to
be
completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with Protection On in Section
1?

[bill]

Terry,
Yes, I created 2 separate sections using the procedure exactly as you
describe (otherwise you would not be able to edit the second section at all
once Protect Forms was put in place). So with that in mind, could you take a
quick look at my second post and see if there is an easy solution?
Cheers, -Bill

"Terry Farrell" wrote:

Are you really creating a new section for the second part of the document or
are you just calling it the second section? Section has a specific meaning.

All you need to do is at the end your first section, Insert, Section Break,
Continuous. Now when you choose Protect, you have the option to select which
section to protect. Obviously, you choose Section 1 and clear section 2 and
start protecting.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, I looked at your alternative solutions Graham, and it seems that we
are
moving into a much more advanced area there and I don't really want to go
that route if I can avoid it (it will take some time for me to learn what
a
userform and macros are!). Besides the Forms method is so simple - even a
caveman could it! - and as I am 90% of the way there, I want to see if
there
is any way I can get this method to work...I still don't understand why
the
second section has problems.

Yes, i agree that "protection for forms is best used for forms" and that
is
why I only apply that protection to the first section and not the second.
Why is the "unprotected" 2nd section only partially editable? I can
change
all the text properties of the section - paragraphs, fonts, etc - but why
not
the properties of an image copied in there? Is this by design (surely
not)
or am I missing something (hopefully yes!)?

"Bill" wrote:

I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken into 2
sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields used
for
data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie, editable only in
the
forms). The bottom half of the page is the second section and must be
completely editable as I need to add figures and images to complete the
report. I used the Tools-Protect Document option, and selected Section
1
only for the "Filling in Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now allows
form data entry only and I can now import images into Section 2. The
problem
is that the images are not editable (cannot select the Format Picture
function to resize or move the image) until I turn off the protection
(which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second section to
be
completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with Protection On in Section
1?

[Terry Farrell]

Are you referring to the 'Image' problem? Is the image In Line with the
text?

Terry

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Terry,
Yes, I created 2 separate sections using the procedure exactly as you
describe (otherwise you would not be able to edit the second section at
all
once Protect Forms was put in place). So with that in mind, could you
take a
quick look at my second post and see if there is an easy solution?
Cheers, -Bill

"Terry Farrell" wrote:

Are you really creating a new section for the second part of the document
or
are you just calling it the second section? Section has a specific
meaning.

All you need to do is at the end your first section, Insert, Section
Break,
Continuous. Now when you choose Protect, you have the option to select
which
section to protect. Obviously, you choose Section 1 and clear section 2
and
start protecting.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, I looked at your alternative solutions Graham, and it seems that
we
are
moving into a much more advanced area there and I don't really want to
go
that route if I can avoid it (it will take some time for me to learn
what
a
userform and macros are!). Besides the Forms method is so simple -
even a
caveman could it! - and as I am 90% of the way there, I want to see if
there
is any way I can get this method to work...I still don't understand why
the
second section has problems.

Yes, i agree that "protection for forms is best used for forms" and
that
is
why I only apply that protection to the first section and not the
second.
Why is the "unprotected" 2nd section only partially editable? I can
change
all the text properties of the section - paragraphs, fonts, etc - but
why
not
the properties of an image copied in there? Is this by design (surely
not)
or am I missing something (hopefully yes!)?

"Bill" wrote:

I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken into
2
sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields used
for
data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie, editable only
in
the
forms). The bottom half of the page is the second section and must be
completely editable as I need to add figures and images to complete
the
report. I used the Tools-Protect Document option, and selected
Section
1
only for the "Filling in Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now
allows
form data entry only and I can now import images into Section 2. The
problem
is that the images are not editable (cannot select the Format Picture
function to resize or move the image) until I turn off the protection
(which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second section
to
be
completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with Protection On in
Section
1?

[bill]

Hi Terry,
Sorry for the delayed response. No, the image is in the second
"unprotected" section of the document. The forms are in the 1st "protected"
section.
Now when I use the Insert-Picture command to copy the image into the second
section, it inserts just fine. The problem arises when I need to resize the
picture and move it around to a different location within the 2nd section.
Normally I double click on the image, which opens the "Format Picture" window
where I can resize the picture and also select it to appear "In front of
text" so I can click and drag it around the window. When protection is on
however, the Format Picture option is greyed out and does not work...even
though the picture has been placed in the unprotected second section (for
example, I can still edit paragraph properties etc in this section) I cannot
access the Image Prpoerties until I turn off the protection. This is kinda
weird and I am sure is not the way it is meant to be so what am i missing
here?? Thanks for any help you can provide with this issue. It has been
driving me crazy!

-Bill

"Terry Farrell" wrote:

Are you referring to the 'Image' problem? Is the image In Line with the
text?

Terry

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Terry,
Yes, I created 2 separate sections using the procedure exactly as you
describe (otherwise you would not be able to edit the second section at
all
once Protect Forms was put in place). So with that in mind, could you
take a
quick look at my second post and see if there is an easy solution?
Cheers, -Bill

"Terry Farrell" wrote:

Are you really creating a new section for the second part of the document
or
are you just calling it the second section? Section has a specific
meaning.

All you need to do is at the end your first section, Insert, Section
Break,
Continuous. Now when you choose Protect, you have the option to select
which
section to protect. Obviously, you choose Section 1 and clear section 2
and
start protecting.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, I looked at your alternative solutions Graham, and it seems that
we
are
moving into a much more advanced area there and I don't really want to
go
that route if I can avoid it (it will take some time for me to learn
what
a
userform and macros are!). Besides the Forms method is so simple -
even a
caveman could it! - and as I am 90% of the way there, I want to see if
there
is any way I can get this method to work...I still don't understand why
the
second section has problems.

Yes, i agree that "protection for forms is best used for forms" and
that
is
why I only apply that protection to the first section and not the
second.
Why is the "unprotected" 2nd section only partially editable? I can
change
all the text properties of the section - paragraphs, fonts, etc - but
why
not
the properties of an image copied in there? Is this by design (surely
not)
or am I missing something (hopefully yes!)?

"Bill" wrote:

I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken into
2
sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields used
for
data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie, editable only
in
the
forms). The bottom half of the page is the second section and must be
completely editable as I need to add figures and images to complete
the
report. I used the Tools-Protect Document option, and selected
Section
1
only for the "Filling in Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now
allows
form data entry only and I can now import images into Section 2. The
problem
is that the images are not editable (cannot select the Format Picture
function to resize or move the image) until I turn off the protection
(which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second section
to
be
completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with Protection On in
Section
1?

I believe this is because images are in a different layer - like the headers
and footers - so that once Protection is turned on for a section, it
protects everything in the protected section AND H&Fs and anything using the
same levels throughout the document. It has been brought up as a bug with
the developers but reported as 'by design'. I guess that means it is an
unavoidable consequence of the way Word is programmed. When the next beta
becomes available, I'll test to see if it is still the same and bring it up
again if necessary.

Terry


"Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi Terry,
Sorry for the delayed response. No, the image is in the second
"unprotected" section of the document. The forms are in the 1st
"protected"
section.
Now when I use the Insert-Picture command to copy the image into the
second
section, it inserts just fine. The problem arises when I need to resize
the
picture and move it around to a different location within the 2nd section.
Normally I double click on the image, which opens the "Format Picture"
window
where I can resize the picture and also select it to appear "In front of
text" so I can click and drag it around the window. When protection is on
however, the Format Picture option is greyed out and does not work...even
though the picture has been placed in the unprotected second section (for
example, I can still edit paragraph properties etc in this section) I
cannot
access the Image Prpoerties until I turn off the protection. This is
kinda
weird and I am sure is not the way it is meant to be so what am i missing
here?? Thanks for any help you can provide with this issue. It has been
driving me crazy!

-Bill

"Terry Farrell" wrote:

Are you referring to the 'Image' problem? Is the image In Line with the
text?

Terry

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Terry,
Yes, I created 2 separate sections using the procedure exactly as you
describe (otherwise you would not be able to edit the second section at
all
once Protect Forms was put in place). So with that in mind, could you
take a
quick look at my second post and see if there is an easy solution?
Cheers, -Bill

"Terry Farrell" wrote:

Are you really creating a new section for the second part of the
document
or
are you just calling it the second section? Section has a specific
meaning.

All you need to do is at the end your first section, Insert, Section
Break,
Continuous. Now when you choose Protect, you have the option to select
which
section to protect. Obviously, you choose Section 1 and clear section
2
and
start protecting.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, I looked at your alternative solutions Graham, and it seems
that
we
are
moving into a much more advanced area there and I don't really want
to
go
that route if I can avoid it (it will take some time for me to learn
what
a
userform and macros are!). Besides the Forms method is so simple -
even a
caveman could it! - and as I am 90% of the way there, I want to see
if
there
is any way I can get this method to work...I still don't understand
why
the
second section has problems.

Yes, i agree that "protection for forms is best used for forms" and
that
is
why I only apply that protection to the first section and not the
second.
Why is the "unprotected" 2nd section only partially editable? I can
change
all the text properties of the section - paragraphs, fonts, etc -
but
why
not
the properties of an image copied in there? Is this by design
(surely
not)
or am I missing something (hopefully yes!)?

"Bill" wrote:

I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken
into
2
sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields
used
for
data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie, editable
only
in
the
forms). The bottom half of the page is the second section and must
be
completely editable as I need to add figures and images to complete
the
report. I used the Tools-Protect Document option, and selected
Section
1
only for the "Filling in Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now
allows
form data entry only and I can now import images into Section 2.
The
problem
is that the images are not editable (cannot select the Format
Picture
function to resize or move the image) until I turn off the
protection
(which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second
section
to
be
completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with Protection On in
Section
1?

[bill]

Thanks Terry for the important info. I guess that answers my question!
Bummer though as the form would be perfect for my application if we could
edit images.
What is the time frame for the next beta version then? I guess I shouldn't
be holding my breath, right?
Cheers,-Bill

" wrote:

I believe this is because images are in a different layer - like the headers
and footers - so that once Protection is turned on for a section, it
protects everything in the protected section AND H&Fs and anything using the
same levels throughout the document. It has been brought up as a bug with
the developers but reported as 'by design'. I guess that means it is an
unavoidable consequence of the way Word is programmed. When the next beta
becomes available, I'll test to see if it is still the same and bring it up
again if necessary.

Terry


"Bill" wrote in message
...
Hi Terry,
Sorry for the delayed response. No, the image is in the second
"unprotected" section of the document. The forms are in the 1st
"protected"
section.
Now when I use the Insert-Picture command to copy the image into the
second
section, it inserts just fine. The problem arises when I need to resize
the
picture and move it around to a different location within the 2nd section.
Normally I double click on the image, which opens the "Format Picture"
window
where I can resize the picture and also select it to appear "In front of
text" so I can click and drag it around the window. When protection is on
however, the Format Picture option is greyed out and does not work...even
though the picture has been placed in the unprotected second section (for
example, I can still edit paragraph properties etc in this section) I
cannot
access the Image Prpoerties until I turn off the protection. This is
kinda
weird and I am sure is not the way it is meant to be so what am i missing
here?? Thanks for any help you can provide with this issue. It has been
driving me crazy!

-Bill

"Terry Farrell" wrote:

Are you referring to the 'Image' problem? Is the image In Line with the
text?

Terry

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Terry,
Yes, I created 2 separate sections using the procedure exactly as you
describe (otherwise you would not be able to edit the second section at
all
once Protect Forms was put in place). So with that in mind, could you
take a
quick look at my second post and see if there is an easy solution?
Cheers, -Bill

"Terry Farrell" wrote:

Are you really creating a new section for the second part of the
document
or
are you just calling it the second section? Section has a specific
meaning.

All you need to do is at the end your first section, Insert, Section
Break,
Continuous. Now when you choose Protect, you have the option to select
which
section to protect. Obviously, you choose Section 1 and clear section
2
and
start protecting.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, I looked at your alternative solutions Graham, and it seems
that
we
are
moving into a much more advanced area there and I don't really want
to
go
that route if I can avoid it (it will take some time for me to learn
what
a
userform and macros are!). Besides the Forms method is so simple -
even a
caveman could it! - and as I am 90% of the way there, I want to see
if
there
is any way I can get this method to work...I still don't understand
why
the
second section has problems.

Yes, i agree that "protection for forms is best used for forms" and
that
is
why I only apply that protection to the first section and not the
second.
Why is the "unprotected" 2nd section only partially editable? I can
change
all the text properties of the section - paragraphs, fonts, etc -
but
why
not
the properties of an image copied in there? Is this by design
(surely
not)
or am I missing something (hopefully yes!)?

"Bill" wrote:

I have a single page layout for a report template that is broken
into
2
sections. In the first section, there are a bunch of form fields
used
for
data entry and i want this section to be protected (ie, editable
only
in
the
forms). The bottom half of the page is the second section and must
be
completely editable as I need to add figures and images to complete
the
report. I used the Tools-Protect Document option, and selected
Section
1
only for the "Filling in Forms" restriction. Great! Section 1 now
allows
form data entry only and I can now import images into Section 2.
The
problem
is that the images are not editable (cannot select the Format
Picture
function to resize or move the image) until I turn off the
protection
(which
beats the purpose of having it!). So how can I get the second
section
to
be
completely editable (ie, can edit pictures) with Protection On in
Section
1?