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Mark McGinty Mark McGinty is offline
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Posts: 7
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Greets,

I have written an app that programmatically connects a mail merge [WordXML]
document to a source of CSV data by altering the XML to specify a URL as the
data source, and adding the appropriate field definitions. (The UI won't
let you do this, even though it offers .ASP files as a possible data
source -- go figure.)

This all works nicely, but there's one little quirk: when the user opens the
document, Word downloads the data between 3 and 4 times -- I watched it
happen using WireShark, it sends the same request to the server (thus
downloads the same data) multiple times.

As a matter of course this sort of thing is set to expire immediately, but
in this case I set it to expire 5 minutes in the future, hoping to leverage
browser cache -- but no love! Apparently Word's HTTP request bypasses
cache. (I verified that the headers returned by the server permitted it to
be cached, again using WireShark; the request is definitely cachable.)

A rational reason for this behavior exceeds the limits of my imagination!
You'd think that if there was even a chance of redundant downloads, they
would at least respect the cache control headers sent by the server, but
nooooo. Cache would've made it barely noticable...

Anyways, the problem isn't a show-stopper, but the needless waste of server
resources (oh yeah, and end-users' time) is always annoying... hoping maybe
someone here has some insight.


TIA,
Mark McGinty


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Peter Jamieson Peter Jamieson is offline
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Posts: 4,582
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

I can't answer your question, but could not get to the point where Word
would open my csv from an http address so could not look at the traffic.

Maybe you could let me know precisely what changes you ended up making
in your xml. Here, I changed a local drive file:///c:\a\csv.csv address
to http://www.somewhere.com/csv.csv in two places:
a. a relationship element with
Type="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships/mailMergeSource"
b. the SELECT statement in the w:query element

FWIW I don't look at the protocol side much so cannot guarantee to
interpret what I see correctly, but I do remember having a conversation
some years ago about another aspect of the way that Word dealt with http
addresses etc., where Word also seemed to insist on a pretty laborious
process (I think it was to follow a HYPERLINK field).

In this case, I notice that when I open the document, Word first tries
to issue a Webdav(?) PROPFIND, fails, then

issues a GET and receives a 305 Not Modified,
issues a HEAD and a GET and receives a 305 Not Modified
issues a HEAD and a GET and receives a 305 Not Modified
issues a HEAD

Peter Jamieson

http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk

On 21/02/2010 14:47, Mark McGinty wrote:
Greets,

I have written an app that programmatically connects a mail merge [WordXML]
document to a source of CSV data by altering the XML to specify a URL as the
data source, and adding the appropriate field definitions. (The UI won't
let you do this, even though it offers .ASP files as a possible data
source -- go figure.)

This all works nicely, but there's one little quirk: when the user opens the
document, Word downloads the data between 3 and 4 times -- I watched it
happen using WireShark, it sends the same request to the server (thus
downloads the same data) multiple times.

As a matter of course this sort of thing is set to expire immediately, but
in this case I set it to expire 5 minutes in the future, hoping to leverage
browser cache -- but no love! Apparently Word's HTTP request bypasses
cache. (I verified that the headers returned by the server permitted it to
be cached, again using WireShark; the request is definitely cachable.)

A rational reason for this behavior exceeds the limits of my imagination!
You'd think that if there was even a chance of redundant downloads, they
would at least respect the cache control headers sent by the server, but
nooooo. Cache would've made it barely noticable...

Anyways, the problem isn't a show-stopper, but the needless waste of server
resources (oh yeah, and end-users' time) is always annoying... hoping maybe
someone here has some insight.


TIA,
Mark McGinty


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Mark McGinty Mark McGinty is offline
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Posts: 7
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Peter,

I was hoping you would reply! :-) You may recal we discussed related
issues 6-8 months ago? Your input was quite valuable to say the least.


"Peter Jamieson" wrote in message
...
I can't answer your question, but could not get to the point where Word
would open my csv from an http address so could not look at the traffic.

Maybe you could let me know precisely what changes you ended up making in
your xml.


In a nutshell, I set w:mailMerge/w:query-w:val to "SELECT * FROM " & Url,
and w:mailMerge/w:dataSource-w:val to Url, then build the field structure.
To tell you *precisely*, VBS code is below -- note that I edited it to
remove the convoluted bits that aren't especially relevant. Stuff in {} are
tokens to represent the end result of some processing. (Hopefully I didn't
make any syntax errors.)
__________________________________________________

[Apparently VBScript code isn't allowed in posts anymore? This is the third
time I've posted this, except this time without the code. I can email it to
you privately, or I can stick it on my web host somewhere, whatever you
prefer.]
________________________________________________

The blank doc was created by merging with a local CSV -- and possibly
hacked/mangled in some way by hand after, I can't recall. It does open in
Word without modifications, given that same local file exists.

*Trick when analyzing WordXML: comment the second node, so it loads in IE
nicely formatted.

Something I just noticed, when I save the doc to file, Word replaces
w:mailMerge/w:query-w:val with "SELECT * FROM {8-digit hex}.asp" (Not
necessarily relevant, but certainly interesting.) So apparently it creates
something on the client system, however, the data is definitely dynamic
every time the document is opened. (The same SQL is used, but the same
criteria could return a different set of records tomorrow, than it did
yeaterday.)

An aside, last time we corrsponded I had given up on using HTML as the
format, couldn't get it to work, but in re-testing/re-validating my
observations/assumptions, I realized I must've given up while trying to get
the UI to use an HTTP-based source. I should probably experiment more with
it. I saw that HTML the value of w:mailMerge/w:query-w:val is "SELECT *
FROM table". What to infer from that, I'm uncertain.

Another aside, a couple of times I've accidentally stumbled into a condition
where Word prompts me to save the current merge data, and the dialog allows
you to pick the format. It's some combination of editing the data in Word
and then changing something about the source -- I don't know exactly how to
repeat it. In any case, one time it came up I saved the data as XML -- very
ugly stuff, I can't decide if it is more bloated than convoluted or vice
versa, but I can say I have no interest in generating it. :-)

Thanks for the reply!


-Mark


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Peter Jamieson Peter Jamieson is offline
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Posts: 4,582
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

I suspected that it was you who had mentioned the XML approach but
hadn't been back to check until now. Thought the last conversation was
in the autumn - scary! Anyway, my own message has reminded me that the
http:// location is probably a factor.

I'll have a look through your message over the next day or so and see
what else I can find out. By all means despam my email and send me the
vbs - no idea what exactly prevents it from being posted here.

Peter Jamieson

http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk

On 22/02/2010 23:04, Mark McGinty wrote:
Peter,

I was hoping you would reply! :-) You may recal we discussed related
issues 6-8 months ago? Your input was quite valuable to say the least.


"Peter wrote in message
...
I can't answer your question, but could not get to the point where Word
would open my csv from an http address so could not look at the traffic.

Maybe you could let me know precisely what changes you ended up making in
your xml.


In a nutshell, I set w:mailMerge/w:query-w:val to "SELECT * FROM "& Url,
and w:mailMerge/w:dataSource-w:val to Url, then build the field structure.
To tell you *precisely*, VBS code is below -- note that I edited it to
remove the convoluted bits that aren't especially relevant. Stuff in {} are
tokens to represent the end result of some processing. (Hopefully I didn't
make any syntax errors.)
__________________________________________________

[Apparently VBScript code isn't allowed in posts anymore? This is the third
time I've posted this, except this time without the code. I can email it to
you privately, or I can stick it on my web host somewhere, whatever you
prefer.]
________________________________________________

The blank doc was created by merging with a local CSV -- and possibly
hacked/mangled in some way by hand after, I can't recall. It does open in
Word without modifications, given that same local file exists.

*Trick when analyzing WordXML: comment the second node, so it loads in IE
nicely formatted.

Something I just noticed, when I save the doc to file, Word replaces
w:mailMerge/w:query-w:val with "SELECT * FROM {8-digit hex}.asp" (Not
necessarily relevant, but certainly interesting.) So apparently it creates
something on the client system, however, the data is definitely dynamic
every time the document is opened. (The same SQL is used, but the same
criteria could return a different set of records tomorrow, than it did
yeaterday.)

An aside, last time we corrsponded I had given up on using HTML as the
format, couldn't get it to work, but in re-testing/re-validating my
observations/assumptions, I realized I must've given up while trying to get
the UI to use an HTTP-based source. I should probably experiment more with
it. I saw that HTML the value of w:mailMerge/w:query-w:val is "SELECT *
FROM table". What to infer from that, I'm uncertain.

Another aside, a couple of times I've accidentally stumbled into a condition
where Word prompts me to save the current merge data, and the dialog allows
you to pick the format. It's some combination of editing the data in Word
and then changing something about the source -- I don't know exactly how to
repeat it. In any case, one time it came up I saved the data as XML -- very
ugly stuff, I can't decide if it is more bloated than convoluted or vice
versa, but I can say I have no interest in generating it. :-)

Thanks for the reply!


-Mark


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~BD~ ~BD~ is offline
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Posts: 8
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Mark McGinty wrote:
Peter,

I was hoping you would reply! :-) You may recal we discussed related
issues 6-8 months ago? Your input was quite valuable to say the least.


Hello again, Mark

Were you not surprised that someone took the trouble to answer you in a
'test' group?

For my part, I've spent more than four years looking for 'unusual'
things on the Internet and investigating what the 'bad guys' do. At
times I have used that particular 'test' group to keep in touch with old
contacts(!)but have been truly amazed at some things people post there.

David H Lipman is something of a Malware guru and frequents many
'security'-type groups but that does not explain why he feels he has a
need to monitor a 'test' group - does it?!!

Maybe someone else can suggest a reason for Mr Lipman's interest in the
'test.here' group.

Regardless, I'm pleased to see that you are obviously up and running
again in *your* group!

Regards,

Dave


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Doug Robbins - Word MVP Doug Robbins - Word MVP is offline
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Posts: 8,832
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

The answer was provided via the microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
newsgroup. It was propogated to the text newsgroup because the OP had
cross-posted to that group.

--
Hope this helps,

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Please reply only to the newsgroups unless you wish to obtain my services on
a paid professional basis.

"~BD~" wrote in message
...
Mark McGinty wrote:
Peter,

I was hoping you would reply! :-) You may recal we discussed related
issues 6-8 months ago? Your input was quite valuable to say the least.


Hello again, Mark

Were you not surprised that someone took the trouble to answer you in a
'test' group?

For my part, I've spent more than four years looking for 'unusual' things
on the Internet and investigating what the 'bad guys' do. At times I have
used that particular 'test' group to keep in touch with old contacts(!)but
have been truly amazed at some things people post there.

David H Lipman is something of a Malware guru and frequents many
'security'-type groups but that does not explain why he feels he has a
need to monitor a 'test' group - does it?!!

Maybe someone else can suggest a reason for Mr Lipman's interest in the
'test.here' group.

Regardless, I'm pleased to see that you are obviously up and running again
in *your* group!

Regards,

Dave


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~BD~ ~BD~ is offline
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Posts: 8
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:
The answer was provided via the microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
newsgroup. It was propogated to the text newsgroup because the OP had
cross-posted to that group.


Hello Doug

I confess to being totally confused by your response!

I first saw a post made by Mark in the *test* newsgroup.

This was his message header:


From: "Mark McGinty"
Subject: so this NG works but the rest of microsoft.public is jacked?
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:02:42 -0800
Lines: 2
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3959
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4325
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Message-ID:
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.test.here
NNTP-Posting-Host: 75-128-3-165.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com 75.128.3.165
Path:
border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ams.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.unit0.net!news4us .nl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl
Bytes: 706
Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com microsoft.public.test.he7480695


--
Dave - hoping that Doug has mis-read the situation!
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Doug Robbins - Word MVP Doug Robbins - Word MVP is offline
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Posts: 8,832
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

If you look at the header of your message, you will see that it is posted to
the following newsgroups:

microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields,24hoursuppo rt.helpdesk,microsoft.public.test.here

I replied to it in the first of those newsgroups.

The 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup however cannot be resolved by my news
program so my responses are not being posted to that group.
--
Hope this helps,

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Please reply only to the newsgroups unless you wish to obtain my services on
a paid professional basis.

"~BD~" wrote in message
...
Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:
The answer was provided via the microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields
newsgroup. It was propogated to the text newsgroup because the OP had
cross-posted to that group.


Hello Doug

I confess to being totally confused by your response!

I first saw a post made by Mark in the *test* newsgroup.

This was his message header:


From: "Mark McGinty"
Subject: so this NG works but the rest of microsoft.public is jacked?
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:02:42 -0800
Lines: 2
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3959
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4325
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Message-ID:
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.test.here
NNTP-Posting-Host: 75-128-3-165.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com 75.128.3.165
Path:
border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ams.gig anews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.unit0.net!news4us .nl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl
Bytes: 706
Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com microsoft.public.test.he7480695


--
Dave - hoping that Doug has mis-read the situation!


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David H. Lipman David H. Lipman is offline
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Posts: 2
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

From: "Doug Robbins - Word MVP"

| If you look at the header of your message, you will see that it is posted to
| the following newsgroups:

| microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields,24hoursuppo rt.helpdesk,microsoft.public.test.
| here

| I replied to it in the first of those newsgroups.

| The 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup however cannot be resolved by my news
| program so my responses are not being posted to that group.
| --
| Hope this helps,

| Doug Robbins - Word MVP


Actually, since the MS News Server propogates to Usenet so does your message and thus it
does propogate to to the Troll infested group; 24hoursupport.helpdesk

And BoaterDave is quite happy in that group as he is a troll and x-posted this message
there were it did NOT belong. Ask your fellow MS MVP personnel in the private MVP area if
you need confirmation on BoaterDave (aka; ~BD~).

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp


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~BD~ ~BD~ is offline
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Posts: 8
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Andy wrote:
Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:


If you look at the header of your message, you will see that it is posted to
the following newsgroups:

microsoft.public.word.mailmerge.fields,24hoursuppo rt.helpdesk,microsoft.public.test.here

I replied to it in the first of those newsgroups.

The 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup however cannot be resolved by my news
program so my responses are not being posted to that group.


Yes they are.



You are 100% correct, Andy. Thanks for posting.

Doug Robbins seems to be an "A-OK" MVP but has obviously *no clue* about
what is happening here!

I saw a message in the 'microsoft.public.test.here'group - nowhere else.
I responded to it ONLY in the *test* newsgroup. Here is my header to
substantiate this fact:-


Path:
border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!feeder2-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!74.125.46.134.MISMATCH!postnews.googl e.com!news1.google.com!npeer03.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.gigan ews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.bt.com!n ews.bt.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:17:03 -0600
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:17:04 +0000
From: ~BD~
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US;
rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100205 SeaMonkey/2.0.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.test.here
Subject: so this NG works but the rest of microsoft.public is jacked?
References:


In-Reply-To:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID:
Lines: 27
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser
X-Trace:
sv3-kyIky1vWwptqNm1lbQdx3tnWqoyAH/ulP8b3Yg8vi08+aKO3HdSzKTGbXzSKEnSraAvbql5xdqcKSjU! QwpxVQ/rhGv6tZa+AlvCeGnPuCNNbxqB2oK5rSAO7IAfYNcBVnjPxETxw QoTi+9nNM6c5/8OTxHN
X-Complaints-To:
X-DMCA-Complaints-To:

X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
Bytes: 2322
Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com microsoft.public.test.he7480698

Mark McGinty wrote:
wrote in message
...

What is your problem, Mark?


Posts to word.mailmerge.fields have not shown up (it's been about 14

hours.)
Also I've noticed that some usually very busy groups have no new

posts in a
relatively long time, e.g, sqlserver.programming, newest post: 2/2082010
12:39 PM.

Maybe it's just my usenet client that's jacked, but I
unsubscribed/re-subscribed to all the groups I read...

Something's wrong somewhere.


-Mark



Try a post here, Mark: 24hoursupport.helpdesk

There are some good guys who might help!

--
Dave


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Mark McGinty Mark McGinty is offline
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Posts: 7
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?


"Andy" nospam@ wrote in message
...
~BD~ wrote:

Andy wrote:
Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:


The 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup however cannot be resolved by my
news
program so my responses are not being posted to that group.

Yes they are.


You are 100% correct, Andy. Thanks for posting.

Doug Robbins seems to be an "A-OK" MVP but has obviously *no clue* about
what is happening here!


Most 'MVPs' are completely stupid and haven't a clue about anything, so
you shouldn't be surprised.

I saw a message in the 'microsoft.public.test.here'group - nowhere else.


Fair enough. Microsoft's news server is probably screwed, which would
explain Mr McGinty's post.


Gah, was there a "how far can you go off-topic" contest I didn't hear about?
:-)

For the record I didn't cross-post anything -- thought about it, then was
going to paste a copy of the post that failed into a post to the test group,
then I [correctly] theorized it was a chunk of VBS code that was causing it
to fail. Problem solved... er, worked-around I should say -- the problem is
excessively paranoid filtering. How many usenet clients out there can pick
out a chunk of script in a post and execute it?

I did mention this NG in my post to the test group, and yes I was very much
surprised anyone even read it, let alone responded. I figured it would just
be a bit bucket.

I could've corrected Doug's mistake, but since it was a matter of absolutely
no consequence, I figured I'd just let it lie, hoping to avoid a long,
worthless sub-thread. Silly me, next time maybe I'll know better.


-Mark

snip

--
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/



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Doug Robbins - Word MVP Doug Robbins - Word MVP is offline
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Posts: 8,832
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Looking at the headers of the messages, I see that it was ~BD~'s first
message that was the first one to be cross posted. Thereafter, unless the
headers of message trimmed, a reply to group ends up in all of the groups
(even apparently to a group in respect of which a message that the group
could not be resolved is received).

I value Andy's comments about MVPs with what I paid for them.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP, originally posted via msnews.microsoft.com

"Mark McGinty" wrote in message
...

"Andy" nospam@ wrote in message
...
~BD~ wrote:

Andy wrote:
Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:


The 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup however cannot be resolved by my
news
program so my responses are not being posted to that group.

Yes they are.


You are 100% correct, Andy. Thanks for posting.

Doug Robbins seems to be an "A-OK" MVP but has obviously *no clue* about
what is happening here!


Most 'MVPs' are completely stupid and haven't a clue about anything, so
you shouldn't be surprised.

I saw a message in the 'microsoft.public.test.here'group - nowhere else.


Fair enough. Microsoft's news server is probably screwed, which would
explain Mr McGinty's post.


Gah, was there a "how far can you go off-topic" contest I didn't hear
about? :-)

For the record I didn't cross-post anything -- thought about it, then was
going to paste a copy of the post that failed into a post to the test
group, then I [correctly] theorized it was a chunk of VBS code that was
causing it to fail. Problem solved... er, worked-around I should say --
the problem is excessively paranoid filtering. How many usenet clients
out there can pick out a chunk of script in a post and execute it?

I did mention this NG in my post to the test group, and yes I was very
much surprised anyone even read it, let alone responded. I figured it
would just be a bit bucket.

I could've corrected Doug's mistake, but since it was a matter of
absolutely no consequence, I figured I'd just let it lie, hoping to avoid
a long, worthless sub-thread. Silly me, next time maybe I'll know better.


-Mark

snip

--
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/



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~BD~ ~BD~ is offline
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Posts: 8
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:

Looking at the headers of the messages, I see that it was ~BD~'s first
message that was the first one to be cross posted. Thereafter, unless
the headers of message trimmed, a reply to group ends up in all of the
groups (even apparently to a group in respect of which a message that
the group could not be resolved is received).

I value Andy's comments about MVPs with what I paid for them.



Doug, in some ways you are correct. The first post I made - in *this*
thread (in this newsgroup) I did, indeed, cross post.

What you don't *seem* to have appreciated is that Mark McGinty had
started a *different* thread in the MS "test' newsgroup - I suspect that
you've not actually been there to look. Maybe it would help you to
better understand if you did so now!

What I had *tried* to do was offer a helping hand to Mr McGinty.

I was, and indeed still am, curious about the reason why D.H.Lipman was
also monitoring a test group (I explained why I was so doing). If I were
*really* paranoid I'd suspect that he was simply stalking *me*!

What explanation might you put forward?

--
Dave - cross posting restored, as other groups were already involved.
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Doug Robbins - Word MVP Doug Robbins - Word MVP is offline
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Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

My aim is to provide help to users who have problems with the application of
the software and I am not the least interested in what goes on in the test
newsgroup.

--
Hope this helps,

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Please reply only to the newsgroups unless you wish to obtain my services on
a paid professional basis.

"~BD~" wrote in message
...
Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:

Looking at the headers of the messages, I see that it was ~BD~'s first
message that was the first one to be cross posted. Thereafter, unless
the headers of message trimmed, a reply to group ends up in all of the
groups (even apparently to a group in respect of which a message that
the group could not be resolved is received).

I value Andy's comments about MVPs with what I paid for them.



Doug, in some ways you are correct. The first post I made - in *this*
thread (in this newsgroup) I did, indeed, cross post.

What you don't *seem* to have appreciated is that Mark McGinty had started
a *different* thread in the MS "test' newsgroup - I suspect that you've
not actually been there to look. Maybe it would help you to better
understand if you did so now!

What I had *tried* to do was offer a helping hand to Mr McGinty.

I was, and indeed still am, curious about the reason why D.H.Lipman was
also monitoring a test group (I explained why I was so doing). If I were
*really* paranoid I'd suspect that he was simply stalking *me*!

What explanation might you put forward?

--
Dave - cross posting restored, as other groups were already involved.


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Beauregard T. Shagnasty Beauregard T. Shagnasty is offline
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Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

In 24hoursupport.helpdesk, Doug Robbins - Word MVP cross-posted:

My aim is to provide help to users who have problems with the
application of the software and I am not the least interested in what
goes on in the test newsgroup.


Then you should take pains to make sure you don't post to it/them.

You could begin by using a newsreader that warns of cross-posts.

-- Hope this helps,

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Please reply only to the newsgroups unless you wish to obtain my
services on a paid professional basis.


I'd consider that, if I had an extra pfennig or two.

--
-bts
-Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul


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~BD~ ~BD~ is offline
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Posts: 8
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:

My aim is to provide help to users who have problems with the
application of the software and I am not the least interested in what
goes on in the test newsgroup.



That is exactly the sort of attitude that folk in Florida had when brown
guys were learning how to fly aircraft into the Twin Towers!

I cannot determine an IP address for you. I have spent a while Googling,
but cannot understand why I see only this:

NNTP-Posting-Host: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl 127.0.0.1

Why does your header not help me determine from whence you post, Doug?

--
Dave - willing to pay - if it will save lives.
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~BD~ ~BD~ is offline
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Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Mark McGinty wrote:
"Andy"nospam@ wrote in message
...
~BD~ wrote:

Andy wrote:
Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:


The 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup however cannot be resolved by my
news
program so my responses are not being posted to that group.

Yes they are.


You are 100% correct, Andy. Thanks for posting.

Doug Robbins seems to be an "A-OK" MVP but has obviously *no clue* about
what is happening here!


Most 'MVPs' are completely stupid and haven't a clue about anything, so
you shouldn't be surprised.

I saw a message in the 'microsoft.public.test.here'group - nowhere else.


Fair enough. Microsoft's news server is probably screwed, which would
explain Mr McGinty's post.


Gah, was there a "how far can you go off-topic" contest I didn't hear about?
:-)


Usenet is great fun, is it not?

For the record I didn't cross-post anything -- thought about it, then was
going to paste a copy of the post that failed into a post to the test group,
then I [correctly] theorized it was a chunk of VBS code that was causing it
to fail. Problem solved... er, worked-around I should say -- the problem is
excessively paranoid filtering.


I agree with what you have said.

How many usenet clients out there can pick out a chunk of script in a post
and execute it?


I have no idea!

I did mention this NG in my post to the test group, and yes I was very much
surprised anyone even read it, let alone responded. I figured it would just
be a bit bucket.


A nice surprise then?

I've explained why *I* was there. Mr Lipman has yet to explain his
involvement. Such behaviour fascinates me.

I could've corrected Doug's mistake, but since it was a matter of absolutely
no consequence, I figured I'd just let it lie, hoping to avoid a long,
worthless sub-thread. Silly me, next time maybe I'll know better.


Why do you consider a sub-thread (as you call it) worthless? Is it
because it costs nothing but time?

-Mark


--
Dave

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Mark McGinty Mark McGinty is offline
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Posts: 7
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?


"Andy" nospam@ wrote in message
...
~BD~ wrote:

Mark McGinty wrote:
"Andy"nospam@ wrote in message
...
~BD~ wrote:

Andy wrote:
Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:

The 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup however cannot be resolved by
my
news
program so my responses are not being posted to that group.

Yes they are.

You are 100% correct, Andy. Thanks for posting.

Doug Robbins seems to be an "A-OK" MVP but has obviously *no clue*
about
what is happening here!

Most 'MVPs' are completely stupid and haven't a clue about anything, so
you shouldn't be surprised.

I saw a message in the 'microsoft.public.test.here'group - nowhere
else.

Fair enough. Microsoft's news server is probably screwed, which would
explain Mr McGinty's post.

Gah, was there a "how far can you go off-topic" contest I didn't hear
about?
:-)


Usenet is great fun, is it not?

For the record I didn't cross-post anything -- thought about it, then
was
going to paste a copy of the post that failed into a post to the test
group,
then I [correctly] theorized it was a chunk of VBS code that was causing
it
to fail. Problem solved... er, worked-around I should say -- the
problem is
excessively paranoid filtering.


I agree with what you have said.

How many usenet clients out there can pick out a chunk of script in a
post
and execute it?


I have no idea!


I would suggest that no _decent_ newsreader would go around executing
code. Does Outhouse Express have this 'feature'?


I wish I could definitively say no -- it damn well shouldn't -- but if you
run Spy++ you will find that thw Window Class for both the view and compose
windows (even for plain text format) is "Internet Explorer_Server".

But although it seems undeniable that the possibility exists, an
IWebBrowser2 object can disable the scripting engine, so I going to go way
out on a limb here and say the possibility is quite remote. A much more
likely vector would be for a user to copy the script to a text file, name it
something.vbs, and execute it -- but IMHO, if a user transfers any type of
code from a non-executable form/media to one that is executable, without
FULLY AND COMPLETELY either understanding said code, or trusting its author,
that act constitutes stupidity deserving of whatever it brings. (It
irritates me when developers are hampered by attempts to protect stupid
users.)

Really it's all indicative of what I consider to be a flawed approach to the
malware problem: it's commonly thought that computers and software aren't
designed securely enough; I submit to you that the problem lies in human
ethics and integrity, and should be dealt with accordingly. If the penalty
for writing a virus was, say, being burned at the stake, there would be a
lot fewer people willing to even think about developing nefarious code...

But I digress... :-)


-MM


[Not cross-posted to 24hoursupport.helpdesk because I can't reach it.]


Kind of a security risk, doncha think?

--
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/



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~BD~ ~BD~ is offline
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Posts: 8
Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

Mark McGinty wrote:
"Andy"nospam@ wrote in message
...
~BD~ wrote:

Mark McGinty wrote:
"Andy"nospam@ wrote in message
...
~BD~ wrote:

Andy wrote:
Doug Robbins - Word MVP wrote:

The 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup however cannot be resolved by
my
news
program so my responses are not being posted to that group.

Yes they are.

You are 100% correct, Andy. Thanks for posting.

Doug Robbins seems to be an "A-OK" MVP but has obviously *no clue*
about
what is happening here!

Most 'MVPs' are completely stupid and haven't a clue about anything, so
you shouldn't be surprised.

I saw a message in the 'microsoft.public.test.here'group - nowhere
else.

Fair enough. Microsoft's news server is probably screwed, which would
explain Mr McGinty's post.

Gah, was there a "how far can you go off-topic" contest I didn't hear
about?
:-)

Usenet is great fun, is it not?

For the record I didn't cross-post anything -- thought about it, then
was
going to paste a copy of the post that failed into a post to the test
group,
then I [correctly] theorized it was a chunk of VBS code that was causing
it
to fail. Problem solved... er, worked-around I should say -- the
problem is
excessively paranoid filtering.

I agree with what you have said.

How many usenet clients out there can pick out a chunk of script in a
post
and execute it?

I have no idea!


I would suggest that no _decent_ newsreader would go around executing
code. Does Outhouse Express have this 'feature'?


I wish I could definitively say no -- it damn well shouldn't -- but if you
run Spy++ you will find that thw Window Class for both the view and compose
windows (even for plain text format) is "Internet Explorer_Server".

But although it seems undeniable that the possibility exists, an
IWebBrowser2 object can disable the scripting engine, so I going to go way
out on a limb here and say the possibility is quite remote. A much more
likely vector would be for a user to copy the script to a text file, name it
something.vbs, and execute it -- but IMHO, if a user transfers any type of
code from a non-executable form/media to one that is executable, without
FULLY AND COMPLETELY either understanding said code, or trusting its author,
that act constitutes stupidity deserving of whatever it brings. (It
irritates me when developers are hampered by attempts to protect stupid
users.)

Really it's all indicative of what I consider to be a flawed approach to the
malware problem: it's commonly thought that computers and software aren't
designed securely enough; I submit to you that the problem lies in human
ethics and integrity, and should be dealt with accordingly. If the penalty
for writing a virus was, say, being burned at the stake, there would be a
lot fewer people willing to even think about developing nefarious code...

But I digress... :-)


-MM


[Not cross-posted to 24hoursupport.helpdesk because I can't reach it.]



OK - I've done that for you!
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David H. Lipman David H. Lipman is offline
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Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

From: "~BD~"

snip
[Not cross-posted to 24hoursupport.helpdesk because I can't reach it.]



| OK - I've done that for you!

/* Thus again proving his Troll status ! */

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp


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~BD~ ~BD~ is offline
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Posts: 8
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David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "~BD~"

snip
[Not cross-posted to 24hoursupport.helpdesk because I can't reach it.]



| OK - I've done that for you!

/* Thus again proving his Troll status ! */




So you *are* stalking me - *WHY*?

Just one honest answer from you, *just one*, might help matters!

You are poisoning your reputation all by yourself, Mr Lipman.

Soon no one will trust a word you say - ever.

--
Dave - 'virus' group added, so that others may see your true colours!
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MEB MEB is offline
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Posts: 2
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On 02/24/2010 06:39 PM, ~BD~ wrote:
David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "~BD~"

snip
[Not cross-posted to 24hoursupport.helpdesk because I can't reach it.]



| OK - I've done that for you!

/* Thus again proving his Troll status ! */




So you *are* stalking me - *WHY*?

Just one honest answer from you, *just one*, might help matters!

You are poisoning your reputation all by yourself, Mr Lipman.

Soon no one will trust a word you say - ever.


Dave, or who ever you are, stop cross posting to all these groups.
These are PERSONAL issues which you appear to have with certain parties.
They certainly aren't need here or wanted in MS security.virus, and I'm
sure these aren't needed or wanted in these other groups.
All of us build a reputation [or lack thereof] from what we post - what
the public reads, those "others" make their PERSONAL determination on
what they read from what *we* post. NONE of those other *personal*
activities [including personal attacks] actually mean much beyond an
acceptance or lack of such on an INDIVIDUAL and personal choice basis,
others may judge differently. Don't HELP those parties who you have
issues with by extending these activities beyond that present scope,
otherwise you add "fuel to the fire" and defeat whatever purpose you may
have thought you had.
PLEASE spend a few moments contemplating what that means, and to
understand my attempt to help.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government
___---
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MEB MEB is offline
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Default CSV merge data via HTTP: redundant downloads?

On 02/27/2010 05:56 AM, Andy wrote:
MEB wrote:

On 02/24/2010 06:39 PM, ~BD~ wrote:
David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "~BD~"

snip
[Not cross-posted to 24hoursupport.helpdesk because I can't reach it.]


| OK - I've done that for you!

/* Thus again proving his Troll status ! */



So you *are* stalking me - *WHY*?

Just one honest answer from you, *just one*, might help matters!

You are poisoning your reputation all by yourself, Mr Lipman.

Soon no one will trust a word you say - ever.


Dave, or who ever you are, stop cross posting to all these groups.
These are PERSONAL issues which you appear to have with certain parties.
They certainly aren't need here or wanted in MS security.virus, and I'm
sure these aren't needed or wanted in these other groups.
All of us build a reputation [or lack thereof] from what we post - what
the public reads, those "others" make their PERSONAL determination on
what they read from what *we* post. NONE of those other *personal*
activities [including personal attacks] actually mean much beyond an
acceptance or lack of such on an INDIVIDUAL and personal choice basis,
others may judge differently. Don't HELP those parties who you have
issues with by extending these activities beyond that present scope,
otherwise you add "fuel to the fire" and defeat whatever purpose you may
have thought you had.
PLEASE spend a few moments contemplating what that means, and to
understand my attempt to help.


****off, clamface.


Sp that little thing in your sig is "what?", just some piece of trash
invented or included to make you *appear* intelligent.

--
MEB
http://peoplescounsel.org/ref/windows-main.htm
Windows Info, Diagnostics, Security, Networking
http://peoplescounsel.org
The "real world" of Law, Justice, and Government
___---
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