[Brian Murphy]

I need space between a table and a "body text" paragraph following the
table.

My "body text" style uses only "space after", and zero "space
before".
I believe this is what is generally recommended for the body text
style.

So right now the paragraph following the table is too close to the
table, and I insert a blank line.

What do professional document people do in this situation?

Thanks

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I have a Body Text Space Before style (with 12 pts Space Before) that I use
for this and other such situations. The following style is set to Body Text
(or Body Text First Indent, depending on which I'm using as the predominant
style).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
I need space between a table and a "body text" paragraph following the
table.

My "body text" style uses only "space after", and zero "space
before".
I believe this is what is generally recommended for the body text
style.

So right now the paragraph following the table is too close to the
table, and I insert a blank line.

What do professional document people do in this situation?

Thanks

[Jules[_3_]]

Hi Brian,
I use body text in my table for text more often than not so the space after
theme follows or if I use Tablebody style same result.
If you have Normal as your style or your preferred style is in Single space
in your table THEN select last row
Table Properties Options
Change Bottom to 0.12 or less or more.

Hope this helps.
"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
I need space between a table and a "body text" paragraph following the
table.

My "body text" style uses only "space after", and zero "space
before".
I believe this is what is generally recommended for the body text
style.

So right now the paragraph following the table is too close to the
table, and I insert a blank line.

What do professional document people do in this situation?

Thanks

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Adding Space After to text in the table isn't helpful if the table has a
border since the space is added *inside* the table (and border) rather than
below it (in contrast to its behavior with paragraph borders).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Jules" wrote in message
...
Hi Brian,
I use body text in my table for text more often than not so the space
after theme follows or if I use Tablebody style same result.
If you have Normal as your style or your preferred style is in Single
space in your table THEN select last row
Table Properties Options
Change Bottom to 0.12 or less or more.

Hope this helps.
"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
I need space between a table and a "body text" paragraph following the
table.

My "body text" style uses only "space after", and zero "space
before".
I believe this is what is generally recommended for the body text
style.

So right now the paragraph following the table is too close to the
table, and I insert a blank line.

What do professional document people do in this situation?

Thanks

[Brian Murphy]

Thanks for the suggestions.

My tables have borders, so it looks like my options are to use a
special style for the paragraph following the table, or else insert a
blank line after the table (i.e. an empty paragraph in plain Normal
style).

Since I frequently copy and move paragraphs, it looks like an empty
Normal paragraph is the best choice for me.

It's a pity a table can't have its own setting for space after. It
would be handy for documents where table captions go above tables.
Otherwise my Table Caption style could take care of it.

Brian

[Jules[_3_]]

You can insert a blank table row - does the same thing - creates the space
you need and you don't have to worry about single space returns.

After you insert the row, split the table with your curse on this last row.
Then remove the border make sure the spacing is correct change to suit if
you require more or less space and save it has an autotext entry for future
use named, for example:

tbr (table blank row).

Save your autotext entry to your global template or normal.dot (but back up
normal.dot) I use global xxx.dot and xxx.dotm templates (2003/2007) and next
time you need to do it you put cursor below table and type tbr (autotext is
not case sensitive) and press F3 key and it will insert.

Post back you need further explanation.

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the suggestions.

My tables have borders, so it looks like my options are to use a
special style for the paragraph following the table, or else insert a
blank line after the table (i.e. an empty paragraph in plain Normal
style).

Since I frequently copy and move paragraphs, it looks like an empty
Normal paragraph is the best choice for me.

It's a pity a table can't have its own setting for space after. It
would be handy for documents where table captions go above tables.
Otherwise my Table Caption style could take care of it.

Brian

[Brian Murphy]

Isn't that something!

The thought actually occurred to me to add an empty extra row to my
table and format it with no borders. So I recalled this thread to ask
if this was a good approach.

I followed the autotext steps you described. I think I did everything
correctly.

Now I can put the cursor on an empty line below my table, type tbr and
hit F3. This creates an empty one row table with no border.

When I do this, the one row table is evidently not part of my table.
It does indeed create the desired "space after".

I was wondering, though, if this has any advantage over simply putting
an empty paragraph after the table?

I haven't tried to do this yet, but my thought was to try to create a
table style where just the last row has no borders. Is this a valid
approach? I've read some things about Word's table styles that make
it sound like you can go nuts trying to get them to do what you want.

Brian




On Jun 14, 11:48 pm, "Jules" wrote:
You can insert a blank table row - does the same thing - creates the space
you need and you don't have to worry about single space returns.

After you insert the row, split the table with your curse on this last row.
Then remove the border make sure the spacing is correct change to suit if
you require more or less space and save it has an autotext entry for future
use named, for example:

tbr (table blank row).

Save your autotext entry to your global template or normal.dot (but back up
normal.dot) I use global xxx.dot and xxx.dotm templates (2003/2007) and next
time you need to do it you put cursor below table and type tbr (autotext is
not case sensitive) and press F3 key and it will insert.

Post back you need further explanation.

"Brian Murphy" wrote in ...

[Jules[_3_]]

Hi Brian,

Yes it is a valid approach and if it suits your purposes best then that is
what you do - save whole table as autotext for future use though (no need to
work too hard).

One reason the table row you create should only be in autotext is so users
can press tab in last table row and a new formatted row as per your table
with border and other formatting is maintained. When you are finished with
your table formatted with border add your autotext row. That's the only
reason.

OR the piece de resistance in Table tricks you can use if you want to add
your blank row to your original table is do as I first suggested above -
create the new row in the current table, split table at that last row and
format the last row without border and join back to table (save a copy of
table in autotext for future use if you use this base table format
frequently).

THEN move your cursor to row mark at end of row on second last row (outside
border) (or any row you like actually) and press RETURN key to create a new
blank table row which will duplicate format of the row above your last non
bordered blank row. Either way both tips work and my thanks to Dian Chapman
MVP for passing on that tip. The best Word tip I've every learned in all my
years using Word.

As with all suggestions it depends on what you are trying to do and if it is
for a one off table or a frequently used table or many users have to be
trained or are proficient - so many different variables to consider which
you are aware of and I am not.

But I think you will like Dian's table trick I use it everyday.

Hope that helps Brian.

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
Isn't that something!

The thought actually occurred to me to add an empty extra row to my
table and format it with no borders. So I recalled this thread to ask
if this was a good approach.

I followed the autotext steps you described. I think I did everything
correctly.

Now I can put the cursor on an empty line below my table, type tbr and
hit F3. This creates an empty one row table with no border.

When I do this, the one row table is evidently not part of my table.
It does indeed create the desired "space after".

I was wondering, though, if this has any advantage over simply putting
an empty paragraph after the table?

I haven't tried to do this yet, but my thought was to try to create a
table style where just the last row has no borders. Is this a valid
approach? I've read some things about Word's table styles that make
it sound like you can go nuts trying to get them to do what you want.

Brian




On Jun 14, 11:48 pm, "Jules" wrote:
You can insert a blank table row - does the same thing - creates the
space
you need and you don't have to worry about single space returns.

After you insert the row, split the table with your curse on this last
row.
Then remove the border make sure the spacing is correct change to suit if
you require more or less space and save it has an autotext entry for
future
use named, for example:

tbr (table blank row).

Save your autotext entry to your global template or normal.dot (but back
up
normal.dot) I use global xxx.dot and xxx.dotm templates (2003/2007) and
next
time you need to do it you put cursor below table and type tbr (autotext
is
not case sensitive) and press F3 key and it will insert.

Post back you need further explanation.

"Brian Murphy" wrote in
...

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

But Brian was asking about a table style, and I think this would definitely
work, given that you can define distinct formatting for the last row. This
wouldn't prevent users from adding rows because the empty last row will
still always be the last row.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Jules" wrote in message
...
Hi Brian,

Yes it is a valid approach and if it suits your purposes best then that is
what you do - save whole table as autotext for future use though (no need
to work too hard).

One reason the table row you create should only be in autotext is so users
can press tab in last table row and a new formatted row as per your table
with border and other formatting is maintained. When you are finished with
your table formatted with border add your autotext row. That's the only
reason.

OR the piece de resistance in Table tricks you can use if you want to add
your blank row to your original table is do as I first suggested above -
create the new row in the current table, split table at that last row and
format the last row without border and join back to table (save a copy of
table in autotext for future use if you use this base table format
frequently).

THEN move your cursor to row mark at end of row on second last row
(outside border) (or any row you like actually) and press RETURN key to
create a new blank table row which will duplicate format of the row above
your last non bordered blank row. Either way both tips work and my thanks
to Dian Chapman MVP for passing on that tip. The best Word tip I've every
learned in all my years using Word.

As with all suggestions it depends on what you are trying to do and if it
is for a one off table or a frequently used table or many users have to be
trained or are proficient - so many different variables to consider which
you are aware of and I am not.

But I think you will like Dian's table trick I use it everyday.

Hope that helps Brian.

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
Isn't that something!

The thought actually occurred to me to add an empty extra row to my
table and format it with no borders. So I recalled this thread to ask
if this was a good approach.

I followed the autotext steps you described. I think I did everything
correctly.

Now I can put the cursor on an empty line below my table, type tbr and
hit F3. This creates an empty one row table with no border.

When I do this, the one row table is evidently not part of my table.
It does indeed create the desired "space after".

I was wondering, though, if this has any advantage over simply putting
an empty paragraph after the table?

I haven't tried to do this yet, but my thought was to try to create a
table style where just the last row has no borders. Is this a valid
approach? I've read some things about Word's table styles that make
it sound like you can go nuts trying to get them to do what you want.

Brian




On Jun 14, 11:48 pm, "Jules" wrote:
You can insert a blank table row - does the same thing - creates the
space
you need and you don't have to worry about single space returns.

After you insert the row, split the table with your curse on this last
row.
Then remove the border make sure the spacing is correct change to suit
if
you require more or less space and save it has an autotext entry for
future
use named, for example:

tbr (table blank row).

Save your autotext entry to your global template or normal.dot (but back
up
normal.dot) I use global xxx.dot and xxx.dotm templates (2003/2007) and
next
time you need to do it you put cursor below table and type tbr (autotext
is
not case sensitive) and press F3 key and it will insert.

Post back you need further explanation.

"Brian Murphy" wrote in
...

[Brian Murphy]

Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them.

I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called
"Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in
styles.

It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be
assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table,
and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final
result. I'll worry about that later.

Anyway, I just tried the following:

Selected the entire last row of one of my tables.
Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style.
Set "no border" for the last row only.

It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last
row with no borders.

If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is
added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has
no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table.

Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing
tables from now on.

Cheers,

Brian

[Jules[_3_]]

Yes Brian Table Grid uses Table Normal Style that is a default system style-
any new tables you create will follow the format you set with that.

If that works for your purposes having every new table with this Table
Normal Style great.

I use base Table Grid (modified for all my default tables) which resides in
Normal.dot or Normal.dotx but keep it very basic as tables are used in 1000s
of documents in many different ways every day and not all documents require
the exact same table layout (borders being one of them)- tables can be very
complex with merged cells and some rows have 1 column, some rows have 3
columns and so on - so the method of duplicating a row with format by moving
to the table marker outside the row end and pressing return is the quickest
way to duplicate a row for a user to add new information in the appropriate
table row format.

Glad you resolved your problem.

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them.

I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called
"Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in
styles.

It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be
assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table,
and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final
result. I'll worry about that later.

Anyway, I just tried the following:

Selected the entire last row of one of my tables.
Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style.
Set "no border" for the last row only.

It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last
row with no borders.

If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is
added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has
no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table.

Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing
tables from now on.

Cheers,

Brian

[Terry Farrell]

If you want to add a bordered row before the unbordered final row, place the
cursor at the end of the penultimate row (just outside the edge of the
table) and press enter. This adds an identical row below the row where the
cursor was placed.

Of course, this works for any row in a table, but by using the penultimate
row in this instance, it will give you your new row without effecting the
unbordered final row.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them.

I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called
"Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in
styles.

It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be
assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table,
and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final
result. I'll worry about that later.

Anyway, I just tried the following:

Selected the entire last row of one of my tables.
Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style.
Set "no border" for the last row only.

It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last
row with no borders.

If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is
added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has
no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table.

Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing
tables from now on.

Cheers,

Brian

[Jules[_3_]]

I've already suggested that Terry - but not sure if many people know that
penultimate is "second last" - as a way to duplicate format for a table row.

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
If you want to add a bordered row before the unbordered final row, place
the cursor at the end of the penultimate row (just outside the edge of the
table) and press enter. This adds an identical row below the row where the
cursor was placed.

Of course, this works for any row in a table, but by using the penultimate
row in this instance, it will give you your new row without effecting the
unbordered final row.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them.

I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called
"Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in
styles.

It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be
assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table,
and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final
result. I'll worry about that later.

Anyway, I just tried the following:

Selected the entire last row of one of my tables.
Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style.
Set "no border" for the last row only.

It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last
row with no borders.

If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is
added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has
no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table.

Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing
tables from now on.

Cheers,

Brian

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

With a table style, however, this is automatic. If you add a new row, the
previous row is no longer the last row, so it no longer has the "last row"
formatting.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Terry Farrell" wrote in message
...
If you want to add a bordered row before the unbordered final row, place
the cursor at the end of the penultimate row (just outside the edge of the
table) and press enter. This adds an identical row below the row where the
cursor was placed.

Of course, this works for any row in a table, but by using the penultimate
row in this instance, it will give you your new row without effecting the
unbordered final row.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them.

I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called
"Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in
styles.

It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be
assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table,
and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final
result. I'll worry about that later.

Anyway, I just tried the following:

Selected the entire last row of one of my tables.
Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style.
Set "no border" for the last row only.

It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last
row with no borders.

If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is
added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has
no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table.

Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing
tables from now on.

Cheers,

Brian

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

You can designate any table style you prefer as your default table style for
a give template. New tables inserted in documents based on that template
will use that style.

Table Normal (which has no borders) is actually a different style from Table
Grid. Table Normal cannot be modified.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

"Jules" wrote in message
...
Yes Brian Table Grid uses Table Normal Style that is a default system
style- any new tables you create will follow the format you set with that.

If that works for your purposes having every new table with this Table
Normal Style great.

I use base Table Grid (modified for all my default tables) which resides
in Normal.dot or Normal.dotx but keep it very basic as tables are used in
1000s of documents in many different ways every day and not all documents
require the exact same table layout (borders being one of them)- tables
can be very complex with merged cells and some rows have 1 column, some
rows have 3 columns and so on - so the method of duplicating a row with
format by moving to the table marker outside the row end and pressing
return is the quickest way to duplicate a row for a user to add new
information in the appropriate table row format.

Glad you resolved your problem.

"Brian Murphy" wrote in message
...
Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them.

I'm not sure, but I think all my tables are using a style called
"Table Grid". I suppose this is one of Word's default built in
styles.

It looks the contents of each individual table cell also get to be
assigned a paragraph style. I'm not sure how the style for the table,
and the style for the cell, work together to produce the final
result. I'll worry about that later.

Anyway, I just tried the following:

Selected the entire last row of one of my tables.
Did "modify style" for the "Table Grid" style.
Set "no border" for the last row only.

It works! All the tables throughout the document now have their last
row with no borders.

If I go to the last cell of each table and press Tab, an empty row is
added in the usual way, and is identical the row above it, but it has
no borders. So I can delete my empty paragraph after my table.

Unless I run into problems, this is going to be my approach to doing
tables from now on.

Cheers,

Brian

[PamC via OfficeKB.com]

Table style is a very good way to get that spacing row in. If, like me, you
are formatting already created tables and rarely have two (out of, say, 20 in
a doc) of the same number of columns, merges, spans, and so forth, a table
style will suit the situation better than a preformatted grid.

Lots of people have trouble with table styles. I do too. Many of the
problems with table styles stem from setting text formatting (font, size,
alignment) in the table style and then trying to change it later with
paragraph styles or manual formatting. But the table style formatting cannot
be cleared by regular means. Also, most number columns call for manual
formatting (such as centering in the column but aligning on the decimal point)
, which may not work properly with table styles. How text in columns is
aligned depends on its length. Worse, the table style formatting may wipe out
manual formatting you need to keep. Etc. So in many cases, it is best not
put text settings in table styles, but to use paragraph styles to format the
table text (table heading, table text, and two bullet levels is usually
enough).

To set up a spacer row in a table style, modify the last row (total row in
W2007) and (ignoring the above about text setting) set the font size to
something small, line spacing to single, space after & before=0, cell
margins=0, row height=6 pt or what you choose. And of course the grid. Be
sure to add the blank row to the existing table before you apply the table
style.

I create a new table style based on Table grid for each project. I apply
Table Grid to clear any previous table styling then my table style.

PamC












Jules wrote:
Yes Brian Table Grid uses Table Normal Style that is a default system style-
any new tables you create will follow the format you set with that.

If that works for your purposes having every new table with this Table
Normal Style great.

I use base Table Grid (modified for all my default tables) which resides in
Normal.dot or Normal.dotx but keep it very basic as tables are used in 1000s
of documents in many different ways every day and not all documents require
the exact same table layout (borders being one of them)- tables can be very
complex with merged cells and some rows have 1 column, some rows have 3
columns and so on - so the method of duplicating a row with format by moving
to the table marker outside the row end and pressing return is the quickest
way to duplicate a row for a user to add new information in the appropriate
table row format.

Glad you resolved your problem.

Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]

Brian

--
Message posted via http://www.officekb.com

[Jules[_3_]]

PamC you can delete Table Grid (Table Style Normal) any time you like which
resets the Table Grid (table).

"PamC via OfficeKB.com" u43222@uwe wrote in message
news:861061dd4ad09@uwe...
Table style is a very good way to get that spacing row in. If, like me,
you
are formatting already created tables and rarely have two (out of, say, 20
in
a doc) of the same number of columns, merges, spans, and so forth, a table
style will suit the situation better than a preformatted grid.

Lots of people have trouble with table styles. I do too. Many of the
problems with table styles stem from setting text formatting (font, size,
alignment) in the table style and then trying to change it later with
paragraph styles or manual formatting. But the table style formatting
cannot
be cleared by regular means. Also, most number columns call for manual
formatting (such as centering in the column but aligning on the decimal
point)
, which may not work properly with table styles. How text in columns is
aligned depends on its length. Worse, the table style formatting may wipe
out
manual formatting you need to keep. Etc. So in many cases, it is best
not
put text settings in table styles, but to use paragraph styles to format
the
table text (table heading, table text, and two bullet levels is usually
enough).

To set up a spacer row in a table style, modify the last row (total row
in
W2007) and (ignoring the above about text setting) set the font size to
something small, line spacing to single, space after & before=0, cell
margins=0, row height=6 pt or what you choose. And of course the grid.
Be
sure to add the blank row to the existing table before you apply the table
style.

I create a new table style based on Table grid for each project. I apply
Table Grid to clear any previous table styling then my table style.

PamC












Jules wrote:
Yes Brian Table Grid uses Table Normal Style that is a default system
style-
any new tables you create will follow the format you set with that.

If that works for your purposes having every new table with this Table
Normal Style great.

I use base Table Grid (modified for all my default tables) which resides
in
Normal.dot or Normal.dotx but keep it very basic as tables are used in
1000s
of documents in many different ways every day and not all documents
require
the exact same table layout (borders being one of them)- tables can be
very
complex with merged cells and some rows have 1 column, some rows have 3
columns and so on - so the method of duplicating a row with format by
moving
to the table marker outside the row end and pressing return is the
quickest
way to duplicate a row for a user to add new information in the
appropriate
table row format.

Glad you resolved your problem.

Table styles are something I've never paid any attention to before, so
I don't really understand them.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]

Brian

--
Message posted via http://www.officekb.com

[PamC via OfficeKB.com]

Thanks, I didn't know that. That will help when table grid changed in ways
that I don't like.

I just realized that I don't have to break my "rule" about no text
formatting in table styles after all. All I have to do is set the row
height to exactly 6 points--which is what I've just done to my table styles.

PamC

Jules wrote:
PamC you can delete Table Grid (Table Style Normal) any time you like which
resets the Table Grid (table).

Table style is a very good way to get that spacing row in. If, like me,
you
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Brian

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