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Word Hater
 
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Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

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WordBanter AI WordBanter AI is offline
Word Super Guru
 
Posts: 1,200
Thumbs up Answer: Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

I understand your frustration with Microsoft Word and the difficulties you have faced with formatting. While it may seem like a simple solution to just rewrite the entire program, it is not as easy as it sounds. Microsoft Word has been around for many years and has a lot of complex features and functions that have been added over time. Rewriting the program from scratch would be a massive undertaking and could potentially cause even more issues.

That being said, there are ways to make formatting in Word easier and more intuitive. Here are some tips that may help:
  1. Use styles: Instead of manually formatting each section of your document, use styles to apply consistent formatting throughout. This will save you time and ensure that your document looks professional.
  2. Use tables sparingly: Tables can be tricky to format in Word, so try to use them only when necessary. If you do need to use a table, consider using the "Table AutoFormat" feature to quickly apply a professional-looking design.
  3. Use the ruler: The ruler in Word can be a helpful tool for adjusting margins, indents, and tabs. Make sure it is visible by going to the "View" tab and checking the "Ruler" box.
  4. Use the "Format Painter": If you have formatted a section of your document the way you want it, you can use the "Format Painter" tool to quickly apply that formatting to other sections.
  5. Use the "Show/Hide" button: This button, located on the "Home" tab, will show you all of the formatting marks in your document (such as paragraph marks and tabs). This can be helpful for troubleshooting formatting issues.

I hope these tips are helpful for you. While Word may not be perfect, there are ways to make it work for you. If you have any specific formatting questions or issues, feel free to ask and I will do my best to help.
__________________
I am not human. I am a Microsoft Word Wizard
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Suzanne S. Barnhill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

If you would turn off all the auto stuff (see
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/TameAutoFormat.htm) and take a little
time to learn how to use Word (you could learn enough to do indents just by
reading http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/conc...ion/index.html),
perhaps you wouldn't be so bitter.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Word Hater" Word wrote in message
...
Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I

refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can

do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow

this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t

  #5   Report Post  
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Word Hater
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Hi Patrick,

I feel your suggestions are poor. Why should I buy a book just to do
something that Word should simply be able to do?

When I copy and paste a heading and body text it should increase the
numbering on the new pasted heading as that is what I've set my numbering to
do. It doesnt. It resets it back to '4.1' when it should be '4.3'. If I right
click and select 'Continue Numbering' do you know what it does? Thats right.
Bugger all.

Conversley, a set of numbered points I've copied and pasted has continued
the numbering. I right click and select restart numbering and although it
restarts the numbering, it decides to indent it all by a tab. I asked to
restart the numbering not indent it as well.

In my eyes these are bugs and no book or increased knowledge on my behalf
will fix that. I have screen shot evidence of both these events happening
that I can show you if you so desire.

I cant dictate what software to install on my office computer so im stuck
with Word.

Any other suggestions?

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Buy a good book and learn how to use Word. Or use OpenOffice if you
don't want to use Word and fight with the indentations there. It's not
going to be any easier.


Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net


"Word Hater" Word wrote in message
:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t




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Jezebel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Word IS "simply able to do this". If you're not prepared to learn to use the
tool, you get the obvious consequences. It's no surprise that your
supervisor thought your code was a lot of sh*t. On the evidence you've
provided so far, that could easily be true of everything you do.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
Hi Patrick,

I feel your suggestions are poor. Why should I buy a book just to do
something that Word should simply be able to do?

When I copy and paste a heading and body text it should increase the
numbering on the new pasted heading as that is what I've set my numbering
to
do. It doesnt. It resets it back to '4.1' when it should be '4.3'. If I
right
click and select 'Continue Numbering' do you know what it does? Thats
right.
Bugger all.

Conversley, a set of numbered points I've copied and pasted has continued
the numbering. I right click and select restart numbering and although it
restarts the numbering, it decides to indent it all by a tab. I asked to
restart the numbering not indent it as well.

In my eyes these are bugs and no book or increased knowledge on my behalf
will fix that. I have screen shot evidence of both these events happening
that I can show you if you so desire.

I cant dictate what software to install on my office computer so im stuck
with Word.

Any other suggestions?

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Buy a good book and learn how to use Word. Or use OpenOffice if you
don't want to use Word and fight with the indentations there. It's not
going to be any easier.


Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net


"Word Hater" Word wrote in message
:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word
to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I
refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they
can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions
MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
"I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t




  #7   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Word Hater
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is doing what
it is doing.

The point is that this is a product that is used by millions of users and it
should be designed to be easy to use and intuitive. The two cases I explained
are highly UN-intuitive. i.e. click a menu option that indicates it will do
what you think it will when in actual fact it does nothing or something
completely different without telling you why or what for. Its these problems
that I find so confounding and frustrating. Im not alone. I know dozens of
people who hate this product for these very reasons. Its completely,
apparent, random behaviour actually slows my work down.

The best one just happened to me. I was looking at my doc, I switched
applications in windows, switched back, and lo, all my headings were now
"A,B,C,D,E" instead of "1.1,1.2,1.3" etc and all my numberings were "0,0,0,0"
instead of "1,2,3,4". I hadnt actually done ANYTHING, but I guess it wanted
to change it all for me.

I could be an expert on Word and indentation and all that but I still
wouldnt know why the f**king hell THAT happened!!!!

I'm sorry, but its a poor product and with all the money Microsoft they
should be bloody ashamed of themselves.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:

If you would turn off all the auto stuff (see
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/TameAutoFormat.htm) and take a little
time to learn how to use Word (you could learn enough to do indents just by
reading http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/conc...ion/index.html),
perhaps you wouldn't be so bitter.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Word Hater" Word wrote in message
...
Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I

refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can

do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow

this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t


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Jezebel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is doing
what
it is doing.


You said it.



  #9   Report Post  
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Word Hater
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is doing
what
it is doing.


You said it.




  #10   Report Post  
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Jezebel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is
doing
what
it is doing.


You said it.








  #11   Report Post  
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Word Hater
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.







  #12   Report Post  
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Patrick Schmid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.


"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.








  #13   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Word Hater
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Im not gonna give up here. Yeah my attitude is a bit whiffy but lets get to
the point. Tell me why it changed all my headings from numbers to letters
simply by switching applications. Im sorry, but give me all the books you
want, that is a bug.

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have no
control over these problems.

Look at Propellerhead software's Reason. Its a real-time, cpu intensive,
hardware emulating sythesizer and music sequencer package. It can do all
manner of ridiculous things all at once. Do you know how many times its
crashed or acted in a way that confused me in the last 3 years Ive been using
it? None. True, its not a word processor, but if a small Sweedish company can
write software that can manage to do all these very techinical, cpu intesive
things all at once without dropping a single note or crashing ever and
Microsoft having trouble 'displaying a bit of text' what hope is there?!?

MS Word IS buggy. It IS un-intuitive. No amount of reading up can change
this. The fact that you suggest I should have to read a book to know how to
do these, lets face it, very basic tasks, only highlights its
un-intuitiveness.

ha.

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.


"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.









  #14   Report Post  
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Charles Kenyon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

Word can do what you want, but you do have to learn to use it. The numbering
feature is poor, but I hear it is improved in the newest version.
Nevertheless, it can be made to work well.
--
See: How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Word
document
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...Numbering.html. (For
bullets see http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/bull...olbullets.html, the
subject is related.)

This is based on ...

Word's Numbering Explained
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Number...gExplained.htm

Here is some general info on moving from Word Perfect to Word:

Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another (and from other
Word Processing programs). Each program's methods have strengths and
weaknesses; but, if you try to use one of these programs as if it were the
other, it is like pushing on a string! You can easily make a lot of extra
work for yourself. In the (short) long term (weeks rather than years)
spending the time to learn Word will save you time if you are spending any
time at all (more than an hour a day) using Word.

See http://www.addbalance.com/word/wordperfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...ordPerfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...AndGotchas.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...Converters.htm
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/conc...ion/index.html
for information on Word for Word Perfect users.

For mo
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart2.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart1.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Number...gExplained.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...latesStore.htm


Function Keys

In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a
special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like
pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this.
Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys()
Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True
End Sub

Word's Extend key (F8) gives something similar to block processing.


Formatting and Styles

Learn about Styles - really learn!
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm I resisted for years and now
regret every day of those years because although that string was still very
hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important
projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word concept of
organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into place and instead
of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on the very powerful
text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it will start doing your
work for you instead of running around behind you trying to undo what you
just thought you did.


Converting documents Word / Word Perfect

Some special characters in Word Perfect documents don't convert well to
Word. There is a macro to assist with this described at
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/...html#macroword and can be found
at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/WPSymbolConv.bas.
This was prepared by Edward Mendelson.
Otherwise, look at the macro from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=212396
Use these on _copies_!

As for converting documents from Word Perfect to _use_ in Word... In a word,
don't plan on it. I would not recommend using converted documents long-term.
They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you at the worst
time. This is especially true of any documents containing automatic
numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word using the
following process:
In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as
text files.
Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your
formatting to look.
Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save
this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using
styles, not direct formatting. Save it again.
To use a template within Word, use File = New and pick your template. This
will create a new document for you.

Merge documents have special problems and should be recreated from text
files or retyped in Word. To convert data files, consider generating labels
in WP as a document, converting that to Word, and then using
http://www.gmayor.com/convert_labels...mail_merge.htm to get a new Word
data file.

Note that conversions usually do create documents that look passable and
print OK; the problems I'm referring to have to do with editing / making
changes, that is, using the documents long-term. (See below on reusing
documents vs. using templates.)

Conversion back to Word Perfect: There is a problem (in addition to the ones
mentioned for conversion _to_ Word) with Version 2002 (XP) and later of
Word. The conversion file only works for conversion _to_ Word, not from Word
to Word Perfect! Earlier versions went both ways. To fix this, you need to
find the old conversion file WPFT532.CNV from a Word 97 or Word 2000
installation and copy it to your new installation, replacing the file of the
same name. Note, the change making the file one-way was done as a security
measure. While I don't know of any problems the old file causes, keep the
new installation's file somewhere as a backup just in case.


Boilerplate and Forms

In WP a lot of people use macros to hold chunks of text - boilerplate. In
Word this function is filled by Templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect, not
macros. Follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebre...s.htm#AutoText for more
information on these tools.

You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For more
about online forms, follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#Forms or
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...nTheBlanks.htm especially Dian
Chapman's series of articles. You may also want to look at
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFl...nesInForms.htm.


Reusing Documents vs. Using templates

General practice in WP is to have a document and copy and edit it to create
a new document. This is not good practice in Word. In Word, construct a
good, tight, template for your documents and use that template when
constructing new documents. Among other things, this can avoid embarrassing
"metadata" (http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/metadata.htm) and things
like surprise headers and footers from creeping into new documents.

It's a lot of reading, I know. It's OK to chunk it down and do a bit each
day, but I would recommend that you make it a top priority to do that bit
each day. In the (short) long run, it will save you both time and grief.
--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs which is awesome!

My criminal law site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Word Hater" Word wrote in message
...
Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I
refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can
do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t


  #15   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Patrick Schmid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect
one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have no
control over these problems.

Most software that is released into the world has only 80% of its bugs
fixed. Software that is completely bug-free doesn't exist and if one
tries to create it, would never ship anyhow. The closest the industry
gets to bug-free software is the software that is used in life-critical
applications, e.g. by NASA. And even then, bugs are everywhere and
software bugs have cost ESA e.g. one rocket (Ariane 5), NASA at least
one $1 billion probe, almost jeopardized another NASA mission, etc.
The point is that for space applications the most expensive and
exhaustive software engineering practices are used and it still has
bugs. Bugs are a fact of life of computer programs, and bug-free
software only exists if the program is very small (you can probably get
10-100 lines to be bug free)

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net



  #16   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Jezebel
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

You storm in, announce to the world that you're a dickhead, and expect
answer from the people you abuse? Gee, did the dog fart in your bed last
night?


"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
Im not gonna give up here. Yeah my attitude is a bit whiffy but lets get
to
the point. Tell me why it changed all my headings from numbers to letters
simply by switching applications. Im sorry, but give me all the books you
want, that is a bug.

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles
that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition
it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have
no
control over these problems.

Look at Propellerhead software's Reason. Its a real-time, cpu intensive,
hardware emulating sythesizer and music sequencer package. It can do all
manner of ridiculous things all at once. Do you know how many times its
crashed or acted in a way that confused me in the last 3 years Ive been
using
it? None. True, its not a word processor, but if a small Sweedish company
can
write software that can manage to do all these very techinical, cpu
intesive
things all at once without dropping a single note or crashing ever and
Microsoft having trouble 'displaying a bit of text' what hope is there?!?

MS Word IS buggy. It IS un-intuitive. No amount of reading up can change
this. The fact that you suggest I should have to read a book to know how
to
do these, lets face it, very basic tasks, only highlights its
un-intuitiveness.

ha.

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.


"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in
the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I
switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are
the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would
understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I
invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it
is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.











  #17   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Tim in Ottawa
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Word Hater,

You are like someone who has purchased a $20,000 Harley Davidson, but never
learned how to shift gears, so you are stuck putzing along in first gear,
complaining about why it doesn't go fast.

Questions about numbering, and why it suddenly changes on you, come up here
every day. The links provided to you above by the other posters point you to
what to do about it. Unfortunately, it requires actually learning to use the
software. There is no software anywhere that works without you having to
learn something about it.

I used to think the same thing about Word as you, but after following this
forum for the last month and learning to use the software, and how to work
around some bugs, I am a much more satisfied user.

"Charles Kenyon" wrote:

Word can do what you want, but you do have to learn to use it. The numbering
feature is poor, but I hear it is improved in the newest version.
Nevertheless, it can be made to work well.
--
See: How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in your Word
document
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...Numbering.html. (For
bullets see http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/bull...olbullets.html, the
subject is related.)

This is based on ...

Word's Numbering Explained
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Number...gExplained.htm

Here is some general info on moving from Word Perfect to Word:

Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another (and from other
Word Processing programs). Each program's methods have strengths and
weaknesses; but, if you try to use one of these programs as if it were the
other, it is like pushing on a string! You can easily make a lot of extra
work for yourself. In the (short) long term (weeks rather than years)
spending the time to learn Word will save you time if you are spending any
time at all (more than an hour a day) using Word.

See http://www.addbalance.com/word/wordperfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...ordPerfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...AndGotchas.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Genera...Converters.htm
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/conc...ion/index.html
for information on Word for Word Perfect users.

For mo
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart2.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...platePart1.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Number...gExplained.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...latesStore.htm


Function Keys

In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a
special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like
pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this.
Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys()
Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True
End Sub

Word's Extend key (F8) gives something similar to block processing.


Formatting and Styles

Learn about Styles - really learn!
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm I resisted for years and now
regret every day of those years because although that string was still very
hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important
projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word concept of
organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into place and instead
of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on the very powerful
text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it will start doing your
work for you instead of running around behind you trying to undo what you
just thought you did.


Converting documents Word / Word Perfect

Some special characters in Word Perfect documents don't convert well to
Word. There is a macro to assist with this described at
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/...html#macroword and can be found
at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/WPSymbolConv.bas.
This was prepared by Edward Mendelson.
Otherwise, look at the macro from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=212396
Use these on _copies_!

As for converting documents from Word Perfect to _use_ in Word... In a word,
don't plan on it. I would not recommend using converted documents long-term.
They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you at the worst
time. This is especially true of any documents containing automatic
numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word using the
following process:
In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as
text files.
Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your
formatting to look.
Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save
this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using
styles, not direct formatting. Save it again.
To use a template within Word, use File = New and pick your template. This
will create a new document for you.

Merge documents have special problems and should be recreated from text
files or retyped in Word. To convert data files, consider generating labels
in WP as a document, converting that to Word, and then using
http://www.gmayor.com/convert_labels...mail_merge.htm to get a new Word
data file.

Note that conversions usually do create documents that look passable and
print OK; the problems I'm referring to have to do with editing / making
changes, that is, using the documents long-term. (See below on reusing
documents vs. using templates.)

Conversion back to Word Perfect: There is a problem (in addition to the ones
mentioned for conversion _to_ Word) with Version 2002 (XP) and later of
Word. The conversion file only works for conversion _to_ Word, not from Word
to Word Perfect! Earlier versions went both ways. To fix this, you need to
find the old conversion file WPFT532.CNV from a Word 97 or Word 2000
installation and copy it to your new installation, replacing the file of the
same name. Note, the change making the file one-way was done as a security
measure. While I don't know of any problems the old file causes, keep the
new installation's file somewhere as a backup just in case.


Boilerplate and Forms

In WP a lot of people use macros to hold chunks of text - boilerplate. In
Word this function is filled by Templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect, not
macros. Follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebre...s.htm#AutoText for more
information on these tools.

You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For more
about online forms, follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#Forms or
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customizat...nTheBlanks.htm especially Dian
Chapman's series of articles. You may also want to look at
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFl...nesInForms.htm.


Reusing Documents vs. Using templates

General practice in WP is to have a document and copy and edit it to create
a new document. This is not good practice in Word. In Word, construct a
good, tight, template for your documents and use that template when
constructing new documents. Among other things, this can avoid embarrassing
"metadata" (http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/metadata.htm) and things
like surprise headers and footers from creeping into new documents.

It's a lot of reading, I know. It's OK to chunk it down and do a bit each
day, but I would recommend that you make it a top priority to do that bit
each day. In the (short) long run, it will save you both time and grief.
--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs which is awesome!

My criminal law site: http://addbalance.com
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Word Hater" Word wrote in message
...
Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I
refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can
do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t



  #18   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Word Hater
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Granted, 'storming in' here with a the subject and handle that I have used is
going to raise a few people's backs and cause a little comotion. However, I
have not directly offended anyone on this thread. I have challenged them to
answer some of my questions, but this is mere discussion and debate. The only
direct target of my venom is a collusal software company that should know
better. If you are offended by my comments then I can only come to the
conclusion that you are one of the developers of Word. This being the case I
severely doubt that all the problems that I am having with Word are down to
you. My point in all this being, Jez, is that I resent the 'dickhead' tag.

I do not expect answers as to why these things are happening either as
without people seeing it for themselves, its going to be very difficult for
them to provide an answer anyway. I am merely venting a little of my
frustration and would like some exceptance that Word is quite a buggy bit of
software and it can be quite un-intuitive at times.

As Patrick quite rightly states, no software is bug-free and being a
software developer myself I can fully appreciate this. MS Word is not a life
critical piece of software (although you could argue it is as over the years
I have had moments where I've wanted to end it all, thanks to Word )
whereas Nasa's software most likely is (I wonder if they use Word...). I'm
just saying that a software company like Microsoft that probably has the most
amount of time, money and resources in the world, plus a version history of
Word spanning over a decade or two, you'd think they'd be able to iron out
silly little bugs like the ones I'm seeing. If it were a tiny little software
house or bit of freeware, I would have no problems with these issues. The
fact that its Microsoft means that there's no excuse.

And before you think I'm a Microsoft basher, you couldnt be further from the
truth. I believe Microsoft is one of the most important companies in the
world today and if it wasnt for them we wouldnt be enjoying anything like the
advancement in home and professional PC usage we see today. I can't see the
point in Macs other than a marketing tool to get computing to look 'cool'.
There's nothing you can do on a mac that you cant do on a PC with windows,
but this is a whole new debate I dont even want to start. So before any MS
bods monitoring this thread get my real identity and burn my house down, I'd
like to say that Im only unhappy with Word. The rest is great.

Hope I've cleared things up, angry people.



"Jezebel" wrote:

You storm in, announce to the world that you're a dickhead, and expect
answer from the people you abuse? Gee, did the dog fart in your bed last
night?


"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
Im not gonna give up here. Yeah my attitude is a bit whiffy but lets get
to
the point. Tell me why it changed all my headings from numbers to letters
simply by switching applications. Im sorry, but give me all the books you
want, that is a bug.

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles
that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition
it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have
no
control over these problems.

Look at Propellerhead software's Reason. Its a real-time, cpu intensive,
hardware emulating sythesizer and music sequencer package. It can do all
manner of ridiculous things all at once. Do you know how many times its
crashed or acted in a way that confused me in the last 3 years Ive been
using
it? None. True, its not a word processor, but if a small Sweedish company
can
write software that can manage to do all these very techinical, cpu
intesive
things all at once without dropping a single note or crashing ever and
Microsoft having trouble 'displaying a bit of text' what hope is there?!?

MS Word IS buggy. It IS un-intuitive. No amount of reading up can change
this. The fact that you suggest I should have to read a book to know how
to
do these, lets face it, very basic tasks, only highlights its
un-intuitiveness.

ha.

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.


"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in
the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I
switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are
the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would
understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I
invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it
is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.












  #19   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Patrick Schmid
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

I am pretty sure that there is enough Word knowledge in this newsgroup
to explain every situation you are encountering, if you provide clear
reproduction steps, meaning what you did exactly and what happened then.
It is important to provide the slightest details for that. As your
issues seemed to be focused around indentation, individual keystrokes
matter.

The experts in this newsgroup helping everyone include a lot of the
authors that write the Word books, consultants who earn a living just
from Word, etc. There are also quite a few people in here who are
members of the Office 2007 Technical Beta Community. If there is
something you are experiencing that still behaves the same in Word 2007
and no one can provide an explanation for, a member of the tech beta can
easily get an answer from Microsoft on that. I for example did that a
week or so ago on an issue and within a day had a reply from Microsoft
explaining why something quite weird was happening.

So in short...There is an explanation for everything and the people in
this newsgroup either know it already or will make an effort to find it
out. Give us a good explanation what you are exactly seeing and it is
probably a good idea to first educate yourself on some of the basic
stuff related to the issues as well.

Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net

"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

Granted, 'storming in' here with a the subject and handle that I have used is
going to raise a few people's backs and cause a little comotion. However, I
have not directly offended anyone on this thread. I have challenged them to
answer some of my questions, but this is mere discussion and debate. The only
direct target of my venom is a collusal software company that should know
better. If you are offended by my comments then I can only come to the
conclusion that you are one of the developers of Word. This being the case I
severely doubt that all the problems that I am having with Word are down to
you. My point in all this being, Jez, is that I resent the 'dickhead' tag.

I do not expect answers as to why these things are happening either as
without people seeing it for themselves, its going to be very difficult for
them to provide an answer anyway. I am merely venting a little of my
frustration and would like some exceptance that Word is quite a buggy bit of
software and it can be quite un-intuitive at times.

As Patrick quite rightly states, no software is bug-free and being a
software developer myself I can fully appreciate this. MS Word is not a life
critical piece of software (although you could argue it is as over the years
I have had moments where I've wanted to end it all, thanks to Word )
whereas Nasa's software most likely is (I wonder if they use Word...). I'm
just saying that a software company like Microsoft that probably has the most
amount of time, money and resources in the world, plus a version history of
Word spanning over a decade or two, you'd think they'd be able to iron out
silly little bugs like the ones I'm seeing. If it were a tiny little software
house or bit of freeware, I would have no problems with these issues. The
fact that its Microsoft means that there's no excuse.

And before you think I'm a Microsoft basher, you couldnt be further from the
truth. I believe Microsoft is one of the most important companies in the
world today and if it wasnt for them we wouldnt be enjoying anything like the
advancement in home and professional PC usage we see today. I can't see the
point in Macs other than a marketing tool to get computing to look 'cool'.
There's nothing you can do on a mac that you cant do on a PC with windows,
but this is a whole new debate I dont even want to start. So before any MS
bods monitoring this thread get my real identity and burn my house down, I'd
like to say that Im only unhappy with Word. The rest is great.

Hope I've cleared things up, angry people.



"Jezebel" wrote:

You storm in, announce to the world that you're a dickhead, and expect
answer from the people you abuse? Gee, did the dog fart in your bed last
night?


"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
Im not gonna give up here. Yeah my attitude is a bit whiffy but lets get
to
the point. Tell me why it changed all my headings from numbers to letters
simply by switching applications. Im sorry, but give me all the books you
want, that is a bug.

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles
that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition
it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have
no
control over these problems.

Look at Propellerhead software's Reason. Its a real-time, cpu intensive,
hardware emulating sythesizer and music sequencer package. It can do all
manner of ridiculous things all at once. Do you know how many times its
crashed or acted in a way that confused me in the last 3 years Ive been
using
it? None. True, its not a word processor, but if a small Sweedish company
can
write software that can manage to do all these very techinical, cpu
intesive
things all at once without dropping a single note or crashing ever and
Microsoft having trouble 'displaying a bit of text' what hope is there?!?

MS Word IS buggy. It IS un-intuitive. No amount of reading up can change
this. The fact that you suggest I should have to read a book to know how
to
do these, lets face it, very basic tasks, only highlights its
un-intuitiveness.

ha.

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.


"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in
the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I
switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are
the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would
understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I
invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it
is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.













  #20   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Chris
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

Word hater, I'm with you on this one. I've had countless problems with
indents and numbering that it becomes a nightmare, and I also agree that it's
a simple function that the program should have no problems in doing,
regardless of what anyone says or suggests...reading books etc etc etc it
shouldn't be required because you know as well as me that it is a basic
function of a word processor. Whether I'm using Office 97, 2000, XP or 2007
B2, the same problem is there in EVERY one of them.

As for Jezebel, you are obviously blinded by love to Microsoft so much that
you can't admit that there his complaint is valid. Instead you criticise him
of doing things he hasn't done, abuse him yourself and have the audacity to
offer no help whatsoever. Great work....!
No doubt you'll suggest the same thing to me as you did to Word Hater, feel
free as that's all I'm expecting from you at the moment...or maybe another
copy and paste from your good self?

Patrick, as for assuming he hasn't tried to understand how Word
works....mate, he shouldn't have to for things like this. It is really quite
frustrating but you've already been told that. Furthermore, he doesn't need
to spoon feed you or anyone else about what happened, blind Freddy could tell
you what he's talking about. That's just a cop out because you don't know the
solution.

Word Hater, although you could have approached the problem better, your
comments are still valid however you're not going to get an answer and
neither am I as to why this happens. The reason being they don't have a
solution. If there was one, it would have been fixed a long, long time ago.


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Robert M. Franz (RMF)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

Hi Chris

Chris wrote:
[..]
Patrick, as for assuming he hasn't tried to understand how Word
works....mate, he shouldn't have to for things like this.


I disagree!

Our anonymous friend wrote it's part of his _job_ to write software
documentation. He has doubtlessly spent hours and hours learning the
software tools he's using. Why can't he spend half a day reading up on
the documentation tool he's using?? Or why can't his company hire a Word
specialist to produce sensible templates which work?? Or he can "code"
his documentation in XML ... ;-)

You say that Word should cope with indentations and numbering and stuff,
and from scratch. That's a valid suggestion, I agree. When I am in the
process of writing structured documents, I first have to switch off
almost all "AutoFormat(WhenYouDontLook)" stuff. And setup the styles the
way I want them. And use styles exclusively.

I would wish that the default settings of Word were honoring more the
way _I_ intend to work with the application. Obviously, Microsoft thinks
that more users are simply writing letters and other small documents,
and by themselves. [That might be a valid assumption, too ...]

2cents
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Word Heretic
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

G'day Chris ,

One word: STYLES

We have no love for MS. We also have little love for fools who wish to
complain daily, but not actually make any effort to teach themselves a
better way. See www.mvps.org etc for suitable resources.

Steve Hudson - Word Heretic

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)
Without prejudice


Chris reckoned:

Word hater, I'm with you on this one. I've had countless problems with
indents and numbering that it becomes a nightmare, and I also agree that it's
a simple function that the program should have no problems in doing,
regardless of what anyone says or suggests...reading books etc etc etc it
shouldn't be required because you know as well as me that it is a basic
function of a word processor. Whether I'm using Office 97, 2000, XP or 2007
B2, the same problem is there in EVERY one of them.

As for Jezebel, you are obviously blinded by love to Microsoft so much that
you can't admit that there his complaint is valid. Instead you criticise him
of doing things he hasn't done, abuse him yourself and have the audacity to
offer no help whatsoever. Great work....!
No doubt you'll suggest the same thing to me as you did to Word Hater, feel
free as that's all I'm expecting from you at the moment...or maybe another
copy and paste from your good self?

Patrick, as for assuming he hasn't tried to understand how Word
works....mate, he shouldn't have to for things like this. It is really quite
frustrating but you've already been told that. Furthermore, he doesn't need
to spoon feed you or anyone else about what happened, blind Freddy could tell
you what he's talking about. That's just a cop out because you don't know the
solution.

Word Hater, although you could have approached the problem better, your
comments are still valid however you're not going to get an answer and
neither am I as to why this happens. The reason being they don't have a
solution. If there was one, it would have been fixed a long, long time ago.


  #23   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Word Heretic
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

G'day Word Hater ,

Troll. You came here to direct venom in a place designed, and used
for, assisting users.

Steve Hudson - Word Heretic

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)
Without prejudice


Word Hater reckoned:

Granted, 'storming in' here with a the subject and handle that I have used is
going to raise a few people's backs and cause a little comotion. However, I
have not directly offended anyone on this thread. I have challenged them to
answer some of my questions, but this is mere discussion and debate. The only
direct target of my venom is a collusal software company that should know
better. If you are offended by my comments then I can only come to the
conclusion that you are one of the developers of Word. This being the case I
severely doubt that all the problems that I am having with Word are down to
you. My point in all this being, Jez, is that I resent the 'dickhead' tag.

I do not expect answers as to why these things are happening either as
without people seeing it for themselves, its going to be very difficult for
them to provide an answer anyway. I am merely venting a little of my
frustration and would like some exceptance that Word is quite a buggy bit of
software and it can be quite un-intuitive at times.

As Patrick quite rightly states, no software is bug-free and being a
software developer myself I can fully appreciate this. MS Word is not a life
critical piece of software (although you could argue it is as over the years
I have had moments where I've wanted to end it all, thanks to Word )
whereas Nasa's software most likely is (I wonder if they use Word...). I'm
just saying that a software company like Microsoft that probably has the most
amount of time, money and resources in the world, plus a version history of
Word spanning over a decade or two, you'd think they'd be able to iron out
silly little bugs like the ones I'm seeing. If it were a tiny little software
house or bit of freeware, I would have no problems with these issues. The
fact that its Microsoft means that there's no excuse.

And before you think I'm a Microsoft basher, you couldnt be further from the
truth. I believe Microsoft is one of the most important companies in the
world today and if it wasnt for them we wouldnt be enjoying anything like the
advancement in home and professional PC usage we see today. I can't see the
point in Macs other than a marketing tool to get computing to look 'cool'.
There's nothing you can do on a mac that you cant do on a PC with windows,
but this is a whole new debate I dont even want to start. So before any MS
bods monitoring this thread get my real identity and burn my house down, I'd
like to say that Im only unhappy with Word. The rest is great.

Hope I've cleared things up, angry people.



"Jezebel" wrote:

You storm in, announce to the world that you're a dickhead, and expect
answer from the people you abuse? Gee, did the dog fart in your bed last
night?


"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
Im not gonna give up here. Yeah my attitude is a bit whiffy but lets get
to
the point. Tell me why it changed all my headings from numbers to letters
simply by switching applications. Im sorry, but give me all the books you
want, that is a bug.

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles
that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition
it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have
no
control over these problems.

Look at Propellerhead software's Reason. Its a real-time, cpu intensive,
hardware emulating sythesizer and music sequencer package. It can do all
manner of ridiculous things all at once. Do you know how many times its
crashed or acted in a way that confused me in the last 3 years Ive been
using
it? None. True, its not a word processor, but if a small Sweedish company
can
write software that can manage to do all these very techinical, cpu
intesive
things all at once without dropping a single note or crashing ever and
Microsoft having trouble 'displaying a bit of text' what hope is there?!?

MS Word IS buggy. It IS un-intuitive. No amount of reading up can change
this. The fact that you suggest I should have to read a book to know how
to
do these, lets face it, very basic tasks, only highlights its
un-intuitiveness.

ha.

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.


"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in
the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I
switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are
the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would
understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I
invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it
is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.













  #24   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Franco
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

I understand. I was a WordPerfect user until the company made us switch to
Word in 1998. I went kicking and screaming. The 1998 version of WordPerfect
is still ahead of Word.
Use WordPerfect and convert it to Word.
I get very frustrated with the Word's unfriendliness. Most of the users
that say you just need to 'learn Word' are correct. If you want to know
Word, you have to study it.
WordPerfect is so intuitive you can do three times as much without having to
'learn' in.
Using Word, but would prefer not to.
--
Frances


"Word Hater" wrote:

Granted, 'storming in' here with a the subject and handle that I have used is
going to raise a few people's backs and cause a little comotion. However, I
have not directly offended anyone on this thread. I have challenged them to
answer some of my questions, but this is mere discussion and debate. The only
direct target of my venom is a collusal software company that should know
better. If you are offended by my comments then I can only come to the
conclusion that you are one of the developers of Word. This being the case I
severely doubt that all the problems that I am having with Word are down to
you. My point in all this being, Jez, is that I resent the 'dickhead' tag.

I do not expect answers as to why these things are happening either as
without people seeing it for themselves, its going to be very difficult for
them to provide an answer anyway. I am merely venting a little of my
frustration and would like some exceptance that Word is quite a buggy bit of
software and it can be quite un-intuitive at times.

As Patrick quite rightly states, no software is bug-free and being a
software developer myself I can fully appreciate this. MS Word is not a life
critical piece of software (although you could argue it is as over the years
I have had moments where I've wanted to end it all, thanks to Word )
whereas Nasa's software most likely is (I wonder if they use Word...). I'm
just saying that a software company like Microsoft that probably has the most
amount of time, money and resources in the world, plus a version history of
Word spanning over a decade or two, you'd think they'd be able to iron out
silly little bugs like the ones I'm seeing. If it were a tiny little software
house or bit of freeware, I would have no problems with these issues. The
fact that its Microsoft means that there's no excuse.

And before you think I'm a Microsoft basher, you couldnt be further from the
truth. I believe Microsoft is one of the most important companies in the
world today and if it wasnt for them we wouldnt be enjoying anything like the
advancement in home and professional PC usage we see today. I can't see the
point in Macs other than a marketing tool to get computing to look 'cool'.
There's nothing you can do on a mac that you cant do on a PC with windows,
but this is a whole new debate I dont even want to start. So before any MS
bods monitoring this thread get my real identity and burn my house down, I'd
like to say that Im only unhappy with Word. The rest is great.

Hope I've cleared things up, angry people.



"Jezebel" wrote:

You storm in, announce to the world that you're a dickhead, and expect
answer from the people you abuse? Gee, did the dog fart in your bed last
night?


"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
Im not gonna give up here. Yeah my attitude is a bit whiffy but lets get
to
the point. Tell me why it changed all my headings from numbers to letters
simply by switching applications. Im sorry, but give me all the books you
want, that is a bug.

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont expect one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little niggles
that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In addition
it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would have
no
control over these problems.

Look at Propellerhead software's Reason. Its a real-time, cpu intensive,
hardware emulating sythesizer and music sequencer package. It can do all
manner of ridiculous things all at once. Do you know how many times its
crashed or acted in a way that confused me in the last 3 years Ive been
using
it? None. True, its not a word processor, but if a small Sweedish company
can
write software that can manage to do all these very techinical, cpu
intesive
things all at once without dropping a single note or crashing ever and
Microsoft having trouble 'displaying a bit of text' what hope is there?!?

MS Word IS buggy. It IS un-intuitive. No amount of reading up can change
this. The fact that you suggest I should have to read a book to know how
to
do these, lets face it, very basic tasks, only highlights its
un-intuitiveness.

ha.

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.


"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in
the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I
switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are
the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would
understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I
invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it
is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.












  #25   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Suzanne S. Barnhill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

I ran kicking and screaming from WordPerfect as soon as possible after
starting to use Word. There are some things I still miss in WordPerfect, but
Word is much more intuitive FOR ME. I think which one you prefer depends
entirely on your own personality and style, though also, to a large extent,
which you started with.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Franco" wrote in message
...
I understand. I was a WordPerfect user until the company made us switch

to
Word in 1998. I went kicking and screaming. The 1998 version of

WordPerfect
is still ahead of Word.
Use WordPerfect and convert it to Word.
I get very frustrated with the Word's unfriendliness. Most of the users
that say you just need to 'learn Word' are correct. If you want to know
Word, you have to study it.
WordPerfect is so intuitive you can do three times as much without having

to
'learn' in.
Using Word, but would prefer not to.
--
Frances


"Word Hater" wrote:

Granted, 'storming in' here with a the subject and handle that I have

used is
going to raise a few people's backs and cause a little comotion.

However, I
have not directly offended anyone on this thread. I have challenged them

to
answer some of my questions, but this is mere discussion and debate. The

only
direct target of my venom is a collusal software company that should

know
better. If you are offended by my comments then I can only come to the
conclusion that you are one of the developers of Word. This being the

case I
severely doubt that all the problems that I am having with Word are down

to
you. My point in all this being, Jez, is that I resent the 'dickhead'

tag.

I do not expect answers as to why these things are happening either as
without people seeing it for themselves, its going to be very difficult

for
them to provide an answer anyway. I am merely venting a little of my
frustration and would like some exceptance that Word is quite a buggy

bit of
software and it can be quite un-intuitive at times.

As Patrick quite rightly states, no software is bug-free and being a
software developer myself I can fully appreciate this. MS Word is not a

life
critical piece of software (although you could argue it is as over the

years
I have had moments where I've wanted to end it all, thanks to Word )
whereas Nasa's software most likely is (I wonder if they use Word...).

I'm
just saying that a software company like Microsoft that probably has the

most
amount of time, money and resources in the world, plus a version history

of
Word spanning over a decade or two, you'd think they'd be able to iron

out
silly little bugs like the ones I'm seeing. If it were a tiny little

software
house or bit of freeware, I would have no problems with these issues.

The
fact that its Microsoft means that there's no excuse.

And before you think I'm a Microsoft basher, you couldnt be further from

the
truth. I believe Microsoft is one of the most important companies in the
world today and if it wasnt for them we wouldnt be enjoying anything

like the
advancement in home and professional PC usage we see today. I can't see

the
point in Macs other than a marketing tool to get computing to look

'cool'.
There's nothing you can do on a mac that you cant do on a PC with

windows,
but this is a whole new debate I dont even want to start. So before any

MS
bods monitoring this thread get my real identity and burn my house down,

I'd
like to say that Im only unhappy with Word. The rest is great.

Hope I've cleared things up, angry people.



"Jezebel" wrote:

You storm in, announce to the world that you're a dickhead, and expect
answer from the people you abuse? Gee, did the dog fart in your bed

last
night?


"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
Im not gonna give up here. Yeah my attitude is a bit whiffy but lets

get
to
the point. Tell me why it changed all my headings from numbers to

letters
simply by switching applications. Im sorry, but give me all the

books you
want, that is a bug.

No one has given me an answer for why that happened and I dont

expect one.
My point is, is that Microsoft is one of the biggest software

producers in
the world and its still releases software with bugs and little

niggles
that
make you scratch your head or scream vulgar obsenities at it. In

addition
it
also crashes a fair bit and corrupts the odd file now and again for

no
reason. As I have repeated, I could be an expert in Word but I would

have
no
control over these problems.

Look at Propellerhead software's Reason. Its a real-time, cpu

intensive,
hardware emulating sythesizer and music sequencer package. It can do

all
manner of ridiculous things all at once. Do you know how many times

its
crashed or acted in a way that confused me in the last 3 years Ive

been
using
it? None. True, its not a word processor, but if a small Sweedish

company
can
write software that can manage to do all these very techinical, cpu
intesive
things all at once without dropping a single note or crashing ever

and
Microsoft having trouble 'displaying a bit of text' what hope is

there?!?

MS Word IS buggy. It IS un-intuitive. No amount of reading up can

change
this. The fact that you suggest I should have to read a book to know

how
to
do these, lets face it, very basic tasks, only highlights its
un-intuitiveness.

ha.

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Your points are too generic and obviously come from someone who

hasn't
even tried to understand how Word works. Combined with the attitude

you
came in here, I don't think that many people here are going to be
extremely willing to refute every single detailed point. Come back

with
a different name and an attitude that searches for help on how to

do
things instead of blasting Word, and you'll find a more receptive
audience.


"Word Hater" wrote in message
:

No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said

in
the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when

I
switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times?

These are
the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you

would
understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in

message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe

if I
invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand

why it
is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.















  #26   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Lefty Lefty is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Patrick,

I'm a technical editor using Word 2002 XP. I have the same problems as Word
Hater. I've shut off all the automatic formatting and Word still insists on
applying its styles instead of mine. For example, I have a 132-page document
containing numbered headings. Once all my styles are applied, and the
document is the way I want it, I saved it. When I opened it up the next day,
all the numbered headings were unnumbered! I have several more documents
that need formatting and my whole team is experiencing the same thing. We've
bought four books to help us solve the "style" problem, but to no avail.
What are we missing?

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Buy a good book and learn how to use Word. Or use OpenOffice if you
don't want to use Word and fight with the indentations there. It's not
going to be any easier.


Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net


"Word Hater" Word wrote in message
:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t


  #27   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Suzanne S. Barnhill Suzanne S. Barnhill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33,624
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

1. Be sure you have "Define styles based on your formatting" disabled
(AutoFormat As You Type tab of Tools | AutoCorrect Options).

2. Avoid the Document Map.

3. Make sure you have outline numbering set up correctly as per
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...Numbering.html

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Lefty" wrote in message
...
Patrick,

I'm a technical editor using Word 2002 XP. I have the same problems as

Word
Hater. I've shut off all the automatic formatting and Word still insists

on
applying its styles instead of mine. For example, I have a 132-page

document
containing numbered headings. Once all my styles are applied, and the
document is the way I want it, I saved it. When I opened it up the next

day,
all the numbered headings were unnumbered! I have several more documents
that need formatting and my whole team is experiencing the same thing.

We've
bought four books to help us solve the "style" problem, but to no avail.
What are we missing?

"Patrick Schmid" wrote:

Buy a good book and learn how to use Word. Or use OpenOffice if you
don't want to use Word and fight with the indentations there. It's not
going to be any easier.


Patrick Schmid
--------------
http://pschmid.net


"Word Hater" Word wrote in message
:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS

Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed

in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to

me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I

refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they

can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million

versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click

the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,

follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and

then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.


http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t



  #28   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
L. a. L. a. is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

Apologies to all for sending in my 2 cents on this a year later, but I just
stumbled across it!

I am no where near the skill level of word hater or anyone else who wrote
in, but I must agree with Word Haters basic point, of why should one have to
spend time with outside resources to learn how to do something that should be
explained within Word's help section to begin with?

Having to do that does make me crazy! Aside from taking the time in advance
to learn how to use Word correctly, as was said, I suspect to get that
learning would take a significant block of time, that most workers
(especially under a deadline) don't have the time to spend. And even if they
did, what is the likelihood that the particular problem they are having would
be addressed? And still, IF that topic is addressed, does it allow for any
type of troubleshooting? Everyone knows that you can follow the "how to's"
perfectly and still have errors.

In my current work using Word a lot, I have run across several instances
where my formatting (as example) does not work the way WORD instructs and
says what the results will be. This makes me extremely exasperated as I waste
too much time trying to figure out on my own what I did wrong. When I finally
give up and consult outside sources, such as this site, I HAVE been able to
progress with the answers I have received. (MOST of the time.) Still, I
can't help but reflect on what Word Hater's point is. The responses received
tell you the "unspoken" detail that is needed to accomplish your work. If
WORD cannot provide those little "oh by the way - in order to do what you
really want, you have to do this" then how is one to use WORD without
reaching a point of hating it, simply because of the frustration?

In honesty, I love WORD and will use this only. BUT - when I am needing to
crank out some serious docs, the problems I come across, page numbering,
styles, headers and footers, etc. just trigger my buttons. Not to mention not
being able to submit my work in the pre-set time frame, as I did not
anticipate having these dumb problems to begin with. Many times I have spent
more time in finding the answer to my problem than I have spent in doing the
entire job to begin with!

Of recent, I have created a doc using what I consider to be the standard
typical headers and footers, and everytime I make a change in one place,
unwanted changes appear in others. This makes me nuts! As an FYI; I have
copied and pasted every reply I have been given from this site as well as
about 3 other sites whose purpose is to help with WORD issues. A solution
that worked one day, suddenly doesn't work the next time. Like my current
situation! I have modified the styles, done this and done that, and still,
my page numbers are not consecutive, no matter what I do. As example. And
believe me, I have done everything I have been told to do. It seems that
frequently when I enter a change for a style and then hit the old "enter" key
to apply the change, the change itself works, but all of a sudden, the font
in my entire doc has changed! It seems to be is always something.

My point is simply that it is extremely frustrating to try and do something
that is not a big deal and then it doesn't work and you have no idea why not.
I will go to the office assistant and I swear, my problem stated, there is
never an answer to my problem. They provide pat answers of information you
can read when you originally read the how to. It's as if you didn't read it
to begin with, so you are directed back to what you already know. But if that
doesn't solve it, you end up resorting to sites like this to get your problem
actually solved.

Thank Heavens this site exists or I would be looney tunes by now!

So okay, I have rambled much too long with my frustrations, and now I am
over it. This topic just hit a button of mine and I simply HAD to submit my
woes, and agreement and understanding of word haters situation. As to the
way he/she came across, which hit some folks rather harshly, I have to still
agree with word hater. It seems to me that simply by virtue of your answer,
that being to spend the time to learn how to use WORD, her frustration over
the problem itself AND the answer given - SHOULD allow you to understand the
exasperation. We are all big people, even if you don't agree with her
methods, you need not fuel the fire by replying the same way. That makes you
no better. If you came across professionally and replying to each issue
clearly, with no sarcastic jabs, I would bet that she would have calmed down
as the issues were discussed. Instead, the responses received only made the
whole thing worse.

I know I am still rambling (apologies again) but I am not able to even
entertain the thought of writing software. But when I buy a program, a
reputable expensive program, and the 1st thing I am hit with is to buy the
support package, that sends me into the ozone right off the bat. I interpret
that to mean, "yes, there will be problems and issues and if you want them
cleared up, you are going to have to pay for getting the answer." WHAT?!?!
If the software WAS written correctly, and written for the typical average
(majority) of users, then there should not be any problems other than
probably a hardware issue. Believe me when I said I am not even in the same
ball park as you whiz folks, so the issues I have - I suspect are equal to
mosquito bites to you folks. We are the people that need to be respected. It
doesn't seem right to me that you (the software writers) assume that we would
know how to do ..... what isn't told in the help sections. So there in lies
the frustrations.

Okay, now I really am done.
Thanks for this opportunity. And please know, that I have been very
satisfied and relieved with the help I have gotten from this site to my
problems. I would've shot my pc by now had I not been able to get this help.

"Word Hater" wrote:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
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Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
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Graham Mayor Graham Mayor is offline
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Posts: 19,312
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

Having waded through that diatribe (obviously I have too much time on my
hands) it appears that your rant boils down to an issue covered at
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting...eformatted.htm

--

Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com
Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org


L. a. wrote:
Apologies to all for sending in my 2 cents on this a year later, but
I just stumbled across it!

I am no where near the skill level of word hater or anyone else who
wrote in, but I must agree with Word Haters basic point, of why
should one have to spend time with outside resources to learn how to
do something that should be explained within Word's help section to
begin with?

Having to do that does make me crazy! Aside from taking the time in
advance to learn how to use Word correctly, as was said, I suspect to
get that learning would take a significant block of time, that most
workers (especially under a deadline) don't have the time to spend.
And even if they did, what is the likelihood that the particular
problem they are having would be addressed? And still, IF that topic
is addressed, does it allow for any type of troubleshooting?
Everyone knows that you can follow the "how to's" perfectly and still
have errors.

In my current work using Word a lot, I have run across several
instances where my formatting (as example) does not work the way WORD
instructs and says what the results will be. This makes me extremely
exasperated as I waste too much time trying to figure out on my own
what I did wrong. When I finally give up and consult outside sources,
such as this site, I HAVE been able to progress with the answers I
have received. (MOST of the time.) Still, I can't help but reflect
on what Word Hater's point is. The responses received tell you the
"unspoken" detail that is needed to accomplish your work. If WORD
cannot provide those little "oh by the way - in order to do what you
really want, you have to do this" then how is one to use WORD without
reaching a point of hating it, simply because of the frustration?

In honesty, I love WORD and will use this only. BUT - when I am
needing to crank out some serious docs, the problems I come across,
page numbering, styles, headers and footers, etc. just trigger my
buttons. Not to mention not being able to submit my work in the
pre-set time frame, as I did not anticipate having these dumb
problems to begin with. Many times I have spent more time in finding
the answer to my problem than I have spent in doing the entire job to
begin with!

Of recent, I have created a doc using what I consider to be the
standard typical headers and footers, and everytime I make a change
in one place, unwanted changes appear in others. This makes me nuts!
As an FYI; I have copied and pasted every reply I have been given
from this site as well as about 3 other sites whose purpose is to
help with WORD issues. A solution that worked one day, suddenly
doesn't work the next time. Like my current situation! I have
modified the styles, done this and done that, and still, my page
numbers are not consecutive, no matter what I do. As example. And
believe me, I have done everything I have been told to do. It seems
that frequently when I enter a change for a style and then hit the
old "enter" key to apply the change, the change itself works, but all
of a sudden, the font in my entire doc has changed! It seems to be
is always something.

My point is simply that it is extremely frustrating to try and do
something that is not a big deal and then it doesn't work and you
have no idea why not. I will go to the office assistant and I swear,
my problem stated, there is never an answer to my problem. They
provide pat answers of information you can read when you originally
read the how to. It's as if you didn't read it to begin with, so you
are directed back to what you already know. But if that doesn't solve
it, you end up resorting to sites like this to get your problem
actually solved.

Thank Heavens this site exists or I would be looney tunes by now!

So okay, I have rambled much too long with my frustrations, and now I
am over it. This topic just hit a button of mine and I simply HAD to
submit my woes, and agreement and understanding of word haters
situation. As to the way he/she came across, which hit some folks
rather harshly, I have to still agree with word hater. It seems to
me that simply by virtue of your answer, that being to spend the time
to learn how to use WORD, her frustration over the problem itself AND
the answer given - SHOULD allow you to understand the exasperation.
We are all big people, even if you don't agree with her methods, you
need not fuel the fire by replying the same way. That makes you no
better. If you came across professionally and replying to each issue
clearly, with no sarcastic jabs, I would bet that she would have
calmed down as the issues were discussed. Instead, the responses
received only made the whole thing worse.

I know I am still rambling (apologies again) but I am not able to even
entertain the thought of writing software. But when I buy a program, a
reputable expensive program, and the 1st thing I am hit with is to
buy the support package, that sends me into the ozone right off the
bat. I interpret that to mean, "yes, there will be problems and
issues and if you want them cleared up, you are going to have to pay
for getting the answer." WHAT?!?! If the software WAS written
correctly, and written for the typical average (majority) of users,
then there should not be any problems other than probably a hardware
issue. Believe me when I said I am not even in the same ball park as
you whiz folks, so the issues I have - I suspect are equal to
mosquito bites to you folks. We are the people that need to be
respected. It doesn't seem right to me that you (the software
writers) assume that we would know how to do ..... what isn't told in
the help sections. So there in lies the frustrations.

Okay, now I really am done.
Thanks for this opportunity. And please know, that I have been very
satisfied and relieved with the help I have gotten from this site to
my problems. I would've shot my pc by now had I not been able to get
this help.

"Word Hater" wrote:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS
Word to write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with
indentations, numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and
are so counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have
handed in documents to my projects managers in the past which they
returned to me complaining about the formatting. I have simply
replied to them that I refuse to waste my time using such a badly
written bit of software and they can do the bloody indentations
themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS would have fixed
it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to
the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion,
click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see
the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft
Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t



  #30   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
dlowrey dlowrey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh*t

"Yes"
Word is kludge because it trys to be everything to everybody.
Suzie Homemaker wants to make greeting cards for the kids PTA. Word will
glitz it up, no problem. Want to make a calendar with color and silly
embedded graphics, no problem.

Want to write a serious document. It takes longer to set up the document
than it does to write it.
Want to write what you are thinking while you have the thought. Forget
about it.

I have developed some very good templates and macros to support my specfic
formating and writing requirements. Guess what. Word still requires too much
fiddling around. I even use Dragon 10 in an effort to keep my thoughts
flowing while I am writing. Even so, I am most product when I write in the
Dragon Pad (basically notepad) and then copy in the text into Word for
formating.

The esential problem is that it takes a substantial effort to override all
the gee-whiz stuff that MS put into the latest version (speaking of formating
and paragraphs. The data handling and mail merge is pretty good). Note that
with Wordperfect, you can just sit down and write; which is sufficient for
95% of business use. So why aren't I using WP? Because WP has lost its
focus as a business tool and is also chasing the "Be everything to Everyone"
bouncing ball.

My suggestion to MS; find an adult business person to oversee the next
iteration of Word. We don't need decorative borders, or pictures, or smart
shapes, crazy numbering or "do it my way" formatting. We do need a business
tool. When I use a tool, say a saw for example, I can focus on my work, not
on the saw. Word needs to be a tool.

-DL

"Word Hater" wrote:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t



  #31   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
lisak lisak is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

This has been quite informative. I'm in total agreement with dlowrey. Not
every business is an adveritisng/marketing/toy company/sales-oriented
company. Many businesses are very staid and serious. The Federal Reserve or
the Pentagon or the court system, etc. have no time or energy for these
frilly features that it takes so much time to remove/understand/fight with.
For these kinds of businesses, the time and effort lost can cost much more
than frustration. MS really does need to have some product, or a version of
these products, that is no frills and to-the-point. That would also help
reduce the bug factor, which truly does exist.

"dlowrey" wrote:

"Yes"
Word is kludge because it trys to be everything to everybody.
Suzie Homemaker wants to make greeting cards for the kids PTA. Word will
glitz it up, no problem. Want to make a calendar with color and silly
embedded graphics, no problem.

Want to write a serious document. It takes longer to set up the document
than it does to write it.
Want to write what you are thinking while you have the thought. Forget
about it.

I have developed some very good templates and macros to support my specfic
formating and writing requirements. Guess what. Word still requires too much
fiddling around. I even use Dragon 10 in an effort to keep my thoughts
flowing while I am writing. Even so, I am most product when I write in the
Dragon Pad (basically notepad) and then copy in the text into Word for
formating.

The esential problem is that it takes a substantial effort to override all
the gee-whiz stuff that MS put into the latest version (speaking of formating
and paragraphs. The data handling and mail merge is pretty good). Note that
with Wordperfect, you can just sit down and write; which is sufficient for
95% of business use. So why aren't I using WP? Because WP has lost its
focus as a business tool and is also chasing the "Be everything to Everyone"
bouncing ball.

My suggestion to MS; find an adult business person to oversee the next
iteration of Word. We don't need decorative borders, or pictures, or smart
shapes, crazy numbering or "do it my way" formatting. We do need a business
tool. When I use a tool, say a saw for example, I can focus on my work, not
on the saw. Word needs to be a tool.

-DL

"Word Hater" wrote:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t

  #32   Report Post  
Posted to microsoft.public.word.docmanagement
Suzanne S. Barnhill Suzanne S. Barnhill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33,624
Default Why dont MS just f**king re-write Word from scratch? Its dogsh

Word was completely redesigned for Word 2007, and no one seems to be very
happy about that. People already complain about backward/forward
compatibility. How many copies of Word do you think MS would sell if it were
written from scratch and were not compatible with any previous version?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

"LisaK" wrote in message
...
This has been quite informative. I'm in total agreement with dlowrey.
Not
every business is an adveritisng/marketing/toy company/sales-oriented
company. Many businesses are very staid and serious. The Federal Reserve
or
the Pentagon or the court system, etc. have no time or energy for these
frilly features that it takes so much time to remove/understand/fight
with.
For these kinds of businesses, the time and effort lost can cost much more
than frustration. MS really does need to have some product, or a version
of
these products, that is no frills and to-the-point. That would also help
reduce the bug factor, which truly does exist.

"dlowrey" wrote:

"Yes"
Word is kludge because it trys to be everything to everybody.
Suzie Homemaker wants to make greeting cards for the kids PTA. Word will
glitz it up, no problem. Want to make a calendar with color and silly
embedded graphics, no problem.

Want to write a serious document. It takes longer to set up the document
than it does to write it.
Want to write what you are thinking while you have the thought. Forget
about it.

I have developed some very good templates and macros to support my
specfic
formating and writing requirements. Guess what. Word still requires too
much
fiddling around. I even use Dragon 10 in an effort to keep my thoughts
flowing while I am writing. Even so, I am most product when I write in
the
Dragon Pad (basically notepad) and then copy in the text into Word for
formating.

The esential problem is that it takes a substantial effort to override
all
the gee-whiz stuff that MS put into the latest version (speaking of
formating
and paragraphs. The data handling and mail merge is pretty good). Note
that
with Wordperfect, you can just sit down and write; which is sufficient
for
95% of business use. So why aren't I using WP? Because WP has lost its
focus as a business tool and is also chasing the "Be everything to
Everyone"
bouncing ball.

My suggestion to MS; find an adult business person to oversee the next
iteration of Word. We don't need decorative borders, or pictures, or
smart
shapes, crazy numbering or "do it my way" formatting. We do need a
business
tool. When I use a tool, say a saw for example, I can focus on my work,
not
on the saw. Word needs to be a tool.

-DL

"Word Hater" wrote:

Im a software developer and the hardest part of my job is using MS Word
to
write all my documentation. Im CONSTANTLY battling with indentations,
numbering and tables that have a mind of their own and are so
counter-intuitive it makes me want to eat my computer. I have handed in
documents to my projects managers in the past which they returned to me
complaining about the formatting. I have simply replied to them that I
refuse
to waste my time using such a badly written bit of software and they
can do
the bloody indentations themselves. Youd think after a million versions
MS
would have fixed it. Oh no.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
"I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/comm...ocmanagemen t


  #33   Report Post  
gm.blgr7 gm.blgr7 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 0
Default

Word Hater,
There are several things you could try.
* Several settings in Word Options could be changed such as pasting options (I use "Match destination formatting") under the Advanced tab.
*Adjust settings using the Settings button in the Cut, copy, and paste section (in the Advanced tab). Try unchecking the "Smart style behavior" checkbox.
* When you want to continue a numbering scheme there must be a hard return after the previous line. Try going to the end of the last correctly numbered line, delete everything up to the next line and then hit Return.
* If you want to change how numbers or bullets are formatted versus using the default in Word, you'll need to define a new bullet or numbering scheme for that document.
* Try working in Outline view and adjust the indents that way.

I hope that helps but you might find that taking a class would save so much time and headache.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Word Hater View Post
No, you've completed avoided my points and repeated what you said in the
first place. What about when it changed my heading numbering when I switched
applications? What about it being very un-intuitive at times? These are the
points Im trying to make.

"Jezebel" wrote:

Yes: invest time to learn a bit more about indentation you would understand
why it is doing what it is doing.



"Word Hater" wrote in message
...
And my other points.....do you have a response to them?

"Jezebel" wrote:


I'm sorry if I'm coming across as bitter but I am. Maybe if I invested
time
to learn a bit more about indentation I would understand why it is
doing
what
it is doing.

You said it.






  #34   Report Post  
Swish77 Swish77 is offline
Junior Member
 
Posts: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gm.blgr7 View Post
Word Hater,
There are several things you could try.
* Several settings in Word Options could be changed such as pasting options (I use "Match destination formatting") under the Advanced tab.
*Adjust settings using the Settings button in the Cut, copy, and paste section (in the Advanced tab). Try unchecking the "Smart style behavior" checkbox.
* When you want to continue a numbering scheme there must be a hard return after the previous line. Try going to the end of the last correctly numbered line, delete everything up to the next line and then hit Return.
* If you want to change how numbers or bullets are formatted versus using the default in Word, you'll need to define a new bullet or numbering scheme for that document.
* Try working in Outline view and adjust the indents that way.

I hope that helps but you might find that taking a class would save so much time and headache.
I see this guy has been (understandably) thrown under the bus for having a scandalous post title and name, but is he wrong?

I have been writing documents for 15 years. I used to use QuarkXPress, and had virtually unlimited control over my documents. In 2002, I was forced to learn word. Since then, it feels like few years I come up against this very same problem in Word: multi-level lists and styles (whatever you want to call it) simply do not work, well, at all.

I've done the research, read Shauna Kelley's blog, and others, for like the 3rd time, at the 3rd company. I created styles based on no styles. I defined a custom multi-level list. Then I went to modify the font, or whatever, in one of my styles, and poof! I've wasted the better part of a day going back and forth between my heading style and my multi-level list style.

Every time I go back into my custom heading one style, it's indent has been magically changed from (no style) to hanging .75"s

Likewise, if I touch the heading style, then look at my multi-level list style, all of the lists have been magically disconnected from the heading styles I've painstakingly connected them to.

What is frustrating is to be somewhat of a (non-MVP) expert, do the research, be careful, and conscientious, and still have these problems. And when I research these problems, it appears they've existed since before 2007.

How hard can this be for word to get right?

All I want to do is create a requirements document with 1 to 1.1.1.1.etc numbering, and control precisely how the text lines up. I use non-numbered text (separate style) below my numbered text, and I like to left align these as well.
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