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#1
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Our translation vendor is reporting "errors" with our PAGEREF fields that use
the \p switch to create the result "above," "below," or "on page" according to where the target is in relation to the x-ref containing the field. When writing in Word 2003 in DE, does this field (particularly the "on page" option) evaluate and update correctly? (According to our vendor, correct is "auf Seite" where Word delivers just "Seite.") We also see similar problems in SV, SK, and PL. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Do authorw in these languages see any "errors" when using this field? Bear -- Windows XP, Word 2003 |
#2
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Assuming that the text containing the PAGEREF field has the correct language
formatting, the field should display correctly. This applies to "above" and "below." As far as I know, there is no way to insert the word "page" automatically with a cross-reference (if that's what you are asking); you will have to type it in. -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Bear" (nospam) wrote in message ... Our translation vendor is reporting "errors" with our PAGEREF fields that use the \p switch to create the result "above," "below," or "on page" according to where the target is in relation to the x-ref containing the field. When writing in Word 2003 in DE, does this field (particularly the "on page" option) evaluate and update correctly? (According to our vendor, correct is "auf Seite" where Word delivers just "Seite.") We also see similar problems in SV, SK, and PL. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Do authorw in these languages see any "errors" when using this field? Bear -- Windows XP, Word 2003 |
#3
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Stefan:
No, actually you can. In Word 2000 terms: 1. Click Insert Cross-reference. 2. Select the reference type (say, Figure). 3. Select the item (figure) whose page you want to x-ref. 4. From the Insert Reference To list, select Page Number. 5. Check the Include Above/Below check box. The result is: { PAGEREF _Ref999999999 \p } When the figure is on the same page as the x-ref, the field result is "above" or "below." When the figure is on a different page, the field result is "on page 99." Please try it and see if the languages you are familiar with translate correctly. Bear |
#4
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
As I wrote, I am aware that you can have Word insert "above" or "below" in
the language applied to the cross-reference. I haven't seen any problems with this feature. But you were referring to "auf Seite" which I'm assuming means "on page"? I don't see a way to have Word insert that. -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Bear" (nospam) wrote in message ... Stefan: No, actually you can. In Word 2000 terms: 1. Click Insert Cross-reference. 2. Select the reference type (say, Figure). 3. Select the item (figure) whose page you want to x-ref. 4. From the Insert Reference To list, select Page Number. 5. Check the Include Above/Below check box. The result is: { PAGEREF _Ref999999999 \p } When the figure is on the same page as the x-ref, the field result is "above" or "below." When the figure is on a different page, the field result is "on page 99." Please try it and see if the languages you are familiar with translate correctly. Bear |
#5
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Stefan:
Please just try it. The PAGEREF field with \p switch can have three results: above, below, or on page 99. Honest. It works fine in English. In Spanish it evaluates to: See Figure 1 más adelante. See Figure 1 más atrás. See Figure 1 en la página 6. Bear -- Windows XP, Word 2000 |
#6
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
"Stefan Blom" wrote in message
... As I wrote, I am aware that you can have Word insert "above" or "below" in the language applied to the cross-reference. I haven't seen any problems with this feature. But you were referring to "auf Seite" which I'm assuming means "on page"? I don't see a way to have Word insert that. That is, Word inserts only the actual page number, and you will have to insert text such as "page" or "on page." -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Bear" (nospam) wrote in message ... Stefan: No, actually you can. In Word 2000 terms: 1. Click Insert Cross-reference. 2. Select the reference type (say, Figure). 3. Select the item (figure) whose page you want to x-ref. 4. From the Insert Reference To list, select Page Number. 5. Check the Include Above/Below check box. The result is: { PAGEREF _Ref999999999 \p } When the figure is on the same page as the x-ref, the field result is "above" or "below." When the figure is on a different page, the field result is "on page 99." Please try it and see if the languages you are familiar with translate correctly. Bear |
#7
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Under which circumstances does the field evaluate to "on page X"? Logically,
the referenced item is located either above or below the reference. Note that I no longer have access to Word 2000; I'm guessing this behavior could be specific to that version. -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Bear" (nospam) wrote in message ... Stefan: Please just try it. The PAGEREF field with \p switch can have three results: above, below, or on page 99. Honest. It works fine in English. In Spanish it evaluates to: See Figure 1 ms adelante. See Figure 1 ms atrs. See Figure 1 en la pgina 6. Bear -- Windows XP, Word 2000 |
#8
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Stefan:
It evaluates to "on page 99" when the target is on a different page than the x-ref. Please try it by editing a PAGEREF field in ANY version of Word. Bear |
#9
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
I have tested the { PAGEREF \p } field in Word 2003 and Word 2007. I can
confirm that I see the same result for German (DE) as you describe. My results for English, German and Danish: { PAGEREF \p } field on another page than the referenced item inserts: on page X (English), Seite X (German), på side X (Danish) { PAGEREF \p } field on same page as the referenced item and above the item inserts: below (English), unten (German), nedenfor (Danish) { PAGEREF \p } field on same page as the referenced item and below the item inserts above above (English), oben (German), ovenfor (Danish) -- Regards Lene Fredborg - Microsoft MVP (Word) DocTools - Denmark www.thedoctools.com Document automation - add-ins, macros and templates for Microsoft Word "Bear" wrote: Stefan: It evaluates to "on page 99" when the target is on a different page than the x-ref. Please try it by editing a PAGEREF field in ANY version of Word. Bear |
#10
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
In Word 2003 I get
DE: Seite (not "auf Seite") SV: på sidan SK: na stronie PL: na strane A possible solution might be to use a nested field along the lines of { IF "{ PAGEREF bookmarkname \p }" = "Seite*" "auf Seite { PAGEREF bookmarkname }" } However, if you need to alter the "above" and "below" texts as well, things would get more complicated. There are ways you could probably make this approach easier to use, e.g. on page 1 put { SET onpage "Seite" }{ SET ouronpage "auf Seite " } substituting the appropriate expressions from the language you are using in that document. then use { IF "{ PAGEREF bookmarkname \p }" = "{ onpage }*" "{ ouronpage }{ PAGEREF bookmarkname }" } Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk Bear wrote: Stefan: It evaluates to "on page 99" when the target is on a different page than the x-ref. Please try it by editing a PAGEREF field in ANY version of Word. Bear |
#11
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Now I have seen it too... finally. :-(
-- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Bear" (nospam) wrote in message ... Stefan: It evaluates to "on page 99" when the target is on a different page than the x-ref. Please try it by editing a PAGEREF field in ANY version of Word. Bear |
#12
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Lene:
Thanks so much for your input. The larger question then becomes: would you consider the German "correct?" or is this a field usage I should avoid for multilingual works? The suggestions Peter made are great, but increase the level of complexity of the field use, which I'm hesitant to do at this point. (Both my authors and my translation vendor are concerned). My best solution for the time being is to leave the field as-is in our English masters, then pre-process a copy for translation purposes where the field is reverted to NOT having the \p switch, and the result text "above" "below" and "on page" is made dead text. So the x-refs evaluate and update in the English, then get frozen for translation, except for the page numbers. Thanks again. Bear -- Windows XP, Word 2000 |
#13
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Peter:
Thanks for your good ideas. More complex than I'd like for now, but rest assurred they are now in my Swipe file. Please see my reply to Lene as well. If you'd like to weigh in on the issue of whether or not the GE result of the field is "correct" or whether the \p switch is useable at all for multilingual products, please do so! Bear |
#14
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Actually, I have never used the \p switch with PAGEREF fields myself. But I
have made tons of PAGEREF fields without the \p switch in documents - incl. huge amounts of documents that were to be translated into one or more other languages. My German is quite rusty but I also think auf should be included. I think I would prefer not using the \p switch in multilingual works. Peters suggestions are interesting but I would be afraid that users could too easily destroy the more complex field constructions. The solution you suggest could be problematic or at least cause inconsistent results. In running text, pages will break in different places in different language versions. For example, the German version of a text will, in general, be longer than the English version. This could result in unten or oben being used in situations where the cross-referenced item was no longer found on the same page - or auf Seite could end on the same page as the cross-referenced item. Unten and oben would not be incorrect (as Stefan said - it is still below or above). However, the use of auf Seite, unten and oben would not be consistent anymore. If you prefer to use the \p switch in the English version, you could use a macro to remove the switch and insert the appropriate string in front of the field. -- Regards Lene Fredborg - Microsoft MVP (Word) DocTools - Denmark www.thedoctools.com Document automation - add-ins, macros and templates for Microsoft Word "Bear" wrote: Lene: Thanks so much for your input. The larger question then becomes: would you consider the German "correct?" or is this a field usage I should avoid for multilingual works? The suggestions Peter made are great, but increase the level of complexity of the field use, which I'm hesitant to do at this point. (Both my authors and my translation vendor are concerned). My best solution for the time being is to leave the field as-is in our English masters, then pre-process a copy for translation purposes where the field is reverted to NOT having the \p switch, and the result text "above" "below" and "on page" is made dead text. So the x-refs evaluate and update in the English, then get frozen for translation, except for the page numbers. Thanks again. Bear -- Windows XP, Word 2000 |
#15
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Sorry, my German was never that strong, and I know practically nothing
about the other three languages. Peter Jamieson http://tips.pjmsn.me.uk Bear wrote: Peter: Thanks for your good ideas. More complex than I'd like for now, but rest assurred they are now in my Swipe file. Please see my reply to Lene as well. If you'd like to weigh in on the issue of whether or not the GE result of the field is "correct" or whether the \p switch is useable at all for multilingual products, please do so! Bear |
#16
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Don't feel bad, Stefan. It is only recently that I also learned this, by
reading about it in these NGs. I never dreamed the switch would do anything beyond "above" and "below," as, like you, I don't interpret those words as applying strictly to the current page. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Stefan Blom" wrote in message ... Now I have seen it too... finally. :-( -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Bear" (nospam) wrote in message ... Stefan: It evaluates to "on page 99" when the target is on a different page than the x-ref. Please try it by editing a PAGEREF field in ANY version of Word. Bear |
#17
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Indeed, an item on a previous page is obviously still "above" and an item on
a following page is "below." If you wanted to reference the page number, you wouldn't use the "Above/below" option in the first place... -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... Don't feel bad, Stefan. It is only recently that I also learned this, by reading about it in these NGs. I never dreamed the switch would do anything beyond "above" and "below," as, like you, I don't interpret those words as applying strictly to the current page. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Stefan Blom" wrote in message ... Now I have seen it too... finally. :-( -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Bear" (nospam) wrote in message ... Stefan: It evaluates to "on page 99" when the target is on a different page than the x-ref. Please try it by editing a PAGEREF field in ANY version of Word. Bear |
#18
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PAGEREF \p Switch in DE, SV, SK, and PL
Well, if you wanted to use a page number, but only if the reference was not
on the same page (in which case I might argue that the Xref is unneeded anyway; a plain-text "above" or "below" would probably do), then I guess this format would fill the bill, but not if it's going to be as problematical as it seems to be. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Stefan Blom" wrote in message ... Indeed, an item on a previous page is obviously still "above" and an item on a following page is "below." If you wanted to reference the page number, you wouldn't use the "Above/below" option in the first place... -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote in message ... Don't feel bad, Stefan. It is only recently that I also learned this, by reading about it in these NGs. I never dreamed the switch would do anything beyond "above" and "below," as, like you, I don't interpret those words as applying strictly to the current page. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Stefan Blom" wrote in message ... Now I have seen it too... finally. :-( -- Stefan Blom Microsoft Word MVP "Bear" (nospam) wrote in message ... Stefan: It evaluates to "on page 99" when the target is on a different page than the x-ref. Please try it by editing a PAGEREF field in ANY version of Word. Bear |
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