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#1
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Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and
now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this??? it looks like a backwards P |
#2
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See http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/NonPrintChars.htm
-- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Lorraine" wrote in message ... Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this??? it looks like a backwards P |
#3
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If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.
If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. On Jan 31, 9:40*pm, Lorraine wrote: Hi, *I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this??? it looks like a backwards P |
#4
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grammatim wrote:
If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. Most users can work quite happily without displaying non-printing characters all the time, and this is the default setting for Word. Of course there are times when it is useful to display the characters, but to suggest that you shouldn't turn them off is ridiculous. If you like to see them continuously then that's fine for you, but I certainly would not want to see them all the time - and neither I suggest would most people. -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org |
#5
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If everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly (and tab
characters; there's little point to the others), we'd have an awful lot fewer questions about "extra blank pages" and "extra space" and such. On Feb 1, 1:52*am, "Graham Mayor" wrote: grammatim wrote: If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. Most users can work quite happily without displaying non-printing characters all the time, and this is the default setting for Word. Of course there are times when it is useful to display the characters, but to suggest that you shouldn't turn them off is ridiculous. If you like to see them continuously then that's fine for you, but I certainly would not want to see them all the time - and neither I suggest would most people. -- Graham Mayor - *Word MVP My web sitewww.gmayor.com Word MVP web sitehttp://word.mvps.org |
#6
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No argument there, but they don't need to be on all the time.
-- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org grammatim wrote: If everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly (and tab characters; there's little point to the others), we'd have an awful lot fewer questions about "extra blank pages" and "extra space" and such. On Feb 1, 1:52 am, "Graham Mayor" wrote: grammatim wrote: If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. Most users can work quite happily without displaying non-printing characters all the time, and this is the default setting for Word. Of course there are times when it is useful to display the characters, but to suggest that you shouldn't turn them off is ridiculous. If you like to see them continuously then that's fine for you, but I certainly would not want to see them all the time - and neither I suggest would most people. -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web sitewww.gmayor.com Word MVP web sitehttp://word.mvps.org |
#7
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It's entirely a matter of taste and habit. I do keep them displayed all the
time, and I'm used to them. I suspect most people who send me documents would be shocked to see how mess they look on my system, though. -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Graham Mayor" wrote in message ... No argument there, but they don't need to be on all the time. -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web site www.gmayor.com Word MVP web site http://word.mvps.org grammatim wrote: If everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly (and tab characters; there's little point to the others), we'd have an awful lot fewer questions about "extra blank pages" and "extra space" and such. On Feb 1, 1:52 am, "Graham Mayor" wrote: grammatim wrote: If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. Most users can work quite happily without displaying non-printing characters all the time, and this is the default setting for Word. Of course there are times when it is useful to display the characters, but to suggest that you shouldn't turn them off is ridiculous. If you like to see them continuously then that's fine for you, but I certainly would not want to see them all the time - and neither I suggest would most people. -- Graham Mayor - Word MVP My web sitewww.gmayor.com Word MVP web sitehttp://word.mvps.org |
#8
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If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word.
It does if you use Word as your email editor. If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. Ditto the advice that Graham and Suzanne have given. Displaying/hiding non-printing characters is a matter of personal preference - although for "professional" users of Word the preference seems to be to have them show. If it were critical to the use of Word that non-printing characters be visible all the time, then this would be the default setting and there would be no option to hide them. Providing responses that represent your personal view of how thing should and shouldn't be done and presenting them is a way that could be construed as "mandatory" - i.e. the only "right" way to do things - is neither helpful nor constructive. It is far better to make recommendations on best practices and back up those recommendations with solid reasoning, but statements like "[i]f everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly" are rude and demeaning and smack of superiority. If I were responding to the OP, I would take an approach similar to Suzanne's and directed the her to the MVP article, which does an excellent job of providing detailed information on the cause of the "problem", methods for resolving it and recommendations on best practices. I might have gone on to say that I usually work with non-printing characters visible as it gives me greater control over the finer details of my documents, but I would _never_ tell someone that they _shouldn't_ hide them. After all, even if I have the letters "MVP" after my name, who am I to tell someone how they should work? Perhaps you should have a look at the "About Us" article on the MVP site (http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm) - especially the section entitled "How NOT to become an MVP". -- Cheers! Gordon Bentley-Mix Word MVP Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup. "grammatim" wrote: If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word. If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. On Jan 31, 9:40 pm, Lorraine wrote: Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this??? it looks like a backwards P |
#9
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On Feb 1, 4:10*pm, Gordon Bentley-Mix gordon(dot)bentleymix(at)gmail
(dot)com wrote: If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word. It does if you use Word as your email editor. And how would I do that? If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. Ditto the advice that Graham and Suzanne have given. Displaying/hiding non-printing characters is a matter of personal preference - although for "professional" users of Word the preference seems to be to have them show.. If it were critical to the use of Word that non-printing characters be visible all the time, then this would be the default setting and there would be no option to hide them. I believe showing paragraph marks is the default setting. (Not, obviously, showing all non-printing characters.) [i] Providing responses that represent your personal view of how thing should and shouldn't be done and presenting them is a way that could be construed as "mandatory" - i.e. the only "right" way to do things - is neither helpful nor constructive. It is far better to make recommendations on best practices and back up those recommendations with solid reasoning, but statements like "f everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly" are rude and demeaning and smack of superiority. If I were responding to the OP, I would take an approach similar to Suzanne's and directed the her to the MVP article, which does an excellent job of providing detailed information on the cause of the "problem", methods for resolving it and recommendations on best practices. I might have gone on to say that I usually work with non-printing characters visible as it gives me greater control over the finer details of my documents, but I would _never_ tell someone that they _shouldn't_ hide them. After all, even if I have the letters "MVP" after my name, who am I to tell someone how they should work? I don't have access to the MVP database. Perhaps you should have a look at the "About Us" article on the MVP site (http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm) - especially the section entitled "How NOT to become an MVP". Why would I want to be an MVP? I know nothing about Fields, or Forms, or Macros, or Merge, or many other things they deal with. |
#10
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Pull yer head in mate...
-- Cheers! Gordon Bentley-Mix Word MVP Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup. "grammatim" wrote: On Feb 1, 4:10 pm, Gordon Bentley-Mix gordon(dot)bentleymix(at)gmail (dot)com wrote: If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word. It does if you use Word as your email editor. And how would I do that? Assuming Outlook as the email client (and a valid assumption in the OP's case as this is the _ONLY_ way pilcrons from Word would show up in email messages), click Tools | Options..., select the "Mail Format" tab then select the appropriate checkbox to use Word to edit email messages. (The exact wording of and/or process to find this checkbox varies depending the the version of Outlook/Word installed.) If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. Ditto the advice that Graham and Suzanne have given. Displaying/hiding non-printing characters is a matter of personal preference - although for "professional" users of Word the preference seems to be to have them show.. If it were critical to the use of Word that non-printing characters be visible all the time, then this would be the default setting and there would be no option to hide them. I believe showing paragraph marks is the default setting. (Not, obviously, showing all non-printing characters.) Mmm... nope... wrong again.[i] Providing responses that represent your personal view of how thing should and shouldn't be done and presenting them is a way that could be construed as "mandatory" - i.e. the only "right" way to do things - is neither helpful nor constructive. It is far better to make recommendations on best practices and back up those recommendations with solid reasoning, but statements like "f everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly" are rude and demeaning and smack of superiority. If I were responding to the OP, I would take an approach similar to Suzanne's and directed the her to the MVP article, which does an excellent job of providing detailed information on the cause of the "problem", methods for resolving it and recommendations on best practices. I might have gone on to say that I usually work with non-printing characters visible as it gives me greater control over the finer details of my documents, but I would _never_ tell someone that they _shouldn't_ hide them. After all, even if I have the letters "MVP" after my name, who am I to tell someone how they should work? I don't have access to the MVP database. EVERYONE has access to the MVP articles. They're on a public site and are a valuable source of information that can be referenced freely. ANYONE can post links to them; not just MVPs. But that's not the point. Even without referencing the MVP article, I still wouldn't do more than make qualified recommendations and then leave it to the individual to decide how they want to work. Perhaps you should have a look at the "About Us" article on the MVP site (http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm) - especially the section entitled "How NOT to become an MVP". Why would I want to be an MVP? I know nothing about Fields, or Forms, or Macros, or Merge, or many other things they deal with. No worries there 'cause it'll never happen. Maybe you should have stopped typing after "I know nothing". At the very least stop posting rude and useless responses to perfectly ordinary questions. I see you already had a bit of a stouch with Greg Maxey (and a few others have taken exception to some of your other posts as well). Greg has the patience of a saint, so managing to get him riled tells me a lot. One thing that stood out in that exchange was the comment that you don't read the information that's provided to you, and I see that nothing has changed. Just because you don't want to be an MVP doesn't mean that the recommendations in that article don't apply to you - especially the parts about wrong, untested or cryptic answers and rudeness. So pull yer head in mate. Post quality or don't bother. |
#11
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And how would I do that?
Some versions of Outlook permit it, or do it by default; Outlook 2007 uses a clone of Word. I don't have access to the MVP database. I'm confused by this. What database are you referring to? Why would I want to be an MVP? So I guess we'll stop bothering nominating you. g -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "grammatim" wrote in message ... On Feb 1, 4:10 pm, Gordon Bentley-Mix gordon(dot)bentleymix(at)gmail (dot)com wrote: If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word. It does if you use Word as your email editor. And how would I do that? If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. Ditto the advice that Graham and Suzanne have given. Displaying/hiding non-printing characters is a matter of personal preference - although for "professional" users of Word the preference seems to be to have them show. If it were critical to the use of Word that non-printing characters be visible all the time, then this would be the default setting and there would be no option to hide them. I believe showing paragraph marks is the default setting. (Not, obviously, showing all non-printing characters.) [i] Providing responses that represent your personal view of how thing should and shouldn't be done and presenting them is a way that could be construed as "mandatory" - i.e. the only "right" way to do things - is neither helpful nor constructive. It is far better to make recommendations on best practices and back up those recommendations with solid reasoning, but statements like "f everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly" are rude and demeaning and smack of superiority. If I were responding to the OP, I would take an approach similar to Suzanne's and directed the her to the MVP article, which does an excellent job of providing detailed information on the cause of the "problem", methods for resolving it and recommendations on best practices. I might have gone on to say that I usually work with non-printing characters visible as it gives me greater control over the finer details of my documents, but I would _never_ tell someone that they _shouldn't_ hide them. After all, even if I have the letters "MVP" after my name, who am I to tell someone how they should work? I don't have access to the MVP database. Perhaps you should have a look at the "About Us" article on the MVP site (http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm) - especially the section entitled "How NOT to become an MVP". Why would I want to be an MVP? I know nothing about Fields, or Forms, or Macros, or Merge, or many other things they deal with. |
#12
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Let's try this again.
Suspend your objection to becoming an MVP for a moment (especially since it's pretty clear that it'll never happen) and go back and read that article again. Here's the link in case you lost it: http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm. Look closely at the section entitled "How NOT to become an MVP" again, but this time imagine that, rather than being instructions for those who aspire to MVP-dom, it's merely a set of recommendations to anyone who wants to repay the kindness shown to them by a group of hardworking volunteers (see the section entitled "Do MVPs get paid?") by sharing their knowledge with others who may not be so fortunate. I understand that this may be difficult for you, but have a fire extinguisher on hand and spray your head with it if you smell smoke. Now consider your post in light of the recommendations in the aforementioned article: If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word. First, this is blatantly wrong. Any Office user with an ounce of nous would be able to look at the situation - pilcrons have suddenly appeared in both Word documents _and_ in email messages - and safely assume that the problems are related. However, if this wasn't clear to you it would have been better to say something like, "I'm not absolutely certain but I don't think the two are related." If I had been answering (given that I _do_ know about the potential for a relationship between Word and email) I would have asked if the OP used Outlook and if it was configured to use Word as the editor. Then I would have gone on to say that fixing the problem in one place should fix the problem in the other. But given your lack of awareness around this I'll let this one go on that point. Now consider the rudeness of this response. You might as well have ended that statement with "you moron!" It's abrupt and dismissive. Perhaps it might have been a bit more palatable if you had said something like "AFAIK, things that happen in email aren't caused by Word because the two aren't related." Of course, you would still be wrong, but at least you would have been politely wrong. Now let's look at the rest of your post: If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. ~sigh~ Where to begin... Again, it's wrong. Although there are many good reasons to _show_ non-printing characters, there are no good reasons not to hide them. It won't break Word or cause any problems that can't be fixed easily. Yes, it probably would cut down on the number of posts of this nature if users had a better understanding of the advantages of showing non-printing characters, and yes, power-users do tend to show them at least part of the time, but a blanket "don't do it" is incorrect and misleading. It also falls under the "cryptic answer" category as well. You provided no reason for not hiding the non-printing characters, and if I were on the receiving end of this advice, I'd either be scratching my head in confusion - after all, everything worked fine _before_ these characters started showing up on my screen - or in a panic that there's some major problem with all the work I've ever done and now it's going to come back to bite me. ~cue the spooky, foreboding music~ I suppose it could also be considered untested as well, since it's not really an answer that works - but that's just being pedantic. Rude though? Yup, definitely - especially when considered in conjunction with your later comment about "[i]f everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly...". The use of "perfectly simple" implies that the user is ignorant, and telling the user that they shouldn't do something - especially without explanation - again is abrupt and dismissive. And your follow up comment is nothing more than a slap that makes you sound arrogant. It was unnecessary and unkind. Unfortunately, given your historical reaction to criticism of your posts, I expect that if you do respond it will simply to be to argue over some minor technical point; the gestalt of the criticism will be lost on you. If you do take this position, that's OK; I'll just file it with "Teaching pigs to sing" and cross-reference under "Troll". -- Gordon Bentley-Mix Word MVP Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup. "grammatim" wrote: If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word. If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. On Jan 31, 9:40 pm, Lorraine wrote: Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this??? it looks like a backwards P |
#13
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Why would I want to be an MVP?
So I guess we'll stop bothering nominating you. g -- Cheers! Gordon Bentley-Mix Word MVP Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup. |
#14
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Bloody web interface! That should have been:
Why would I want to be an MVP? So I guess we'll stop bothering nominating you. g Well said Suzanne! -- Cheers! Gordon Bentley-Mix Word MVP Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup. |
#15
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Yeah, and mine should have been "bothering to nominate you" ("bothering to"
was a second thought). -- Suzanne S. Barnhill Microsoft MVP (Word) Words into Type Fairhope, Alabama USA http://word.mvps.org "Gordon Bentley-Mix" gordon(dot)bentleymix(at)gmail(dot)com wrote in message ... Bloody web interface! That should have been: Why would I want to be an MVP? So I guess we'll stop bothering nominating you. g Well said Suzanne! -- Cheers! Gordon Bentley-Mix Word MVP Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup. |
#16
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Wow! By now Lorraine is probably afraid to ever ask another question.
"Gordon Bentley-Mix" wrote: [i] Let's try this again. Suspend your objection to becoming an MVP for a moment (especially since it's pretty clear that it'll never happen) and go back and read that article again. Here's the link in case you lost it: http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm. Look closely at the section entitled "How NOT to become an MVP" again, but this time imagine that, rather than being instructions for those who aspire to MVP-dom, it's merely a set of recommendations to anyone who wants to repay the kindness shown to them by a group of hardworking volunteers (see the section entitled "Do MVPs get paid?") by sharing their knowledge with others who may not be so fortunate. I understand that this may be difficult for you, but have a fire extinguisher on hand and spray your head with it if you smell smoke. Now consider your post in light of the recommendations in the aforementioned article: If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word. First, this is blatantly wrong. Any Office user with an ounce of nous would be able to look at the situation - pilcrons have suddenly appeared in both Word documents _and_ in email messages - and safely assume that the problems are related. However, if this wasn't clear to you it would have been better to say something like, "I'm not absolutely certain but I don't think the two are related." If I had been answering (given that I _do_ know about the potential for a relationship between Word and email) I would have asked if the OP used Outlook and if it was configured to use Word as the editor. Then I would have gone on to say that fixing the problem in one place should fix the problem in the other. But given your lack of awareness around this I'll let this one go on that point. Now consider the rudeness of this response. You might as well have ended that statement with "you moron!" It's abrupt and dismissive. Perhaps it might have been a bit more palatable if you had said something like "AFAIK, things that happen in email aren't caused by Word because the two aren't related." Of course, you would still be wrong, but at least you would have been politely wrong. Now let's look at the rest of your post: If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. ~sigh~ Where to begin... Again, it's wrong. Although there are many good reasons to _show_ non-printing characters, there are no good reasons not to hide them. It won't break Word or cause any problems that can't be fixed easily. Yes, it probably would cut down on the number of posts of this nature if users had a better understanding of the advantages of showing non-printing characters, and yes, power-users do tend to show them at least part of the time, but a blanket "don't do it" is incorrect and misleading. It also falls under the "cryptic answer" category as well. You provided no reason for not hiding the non-printing characters, and if I were on the receiving end of this advice, I'd either be scratching my head in confusion - after all, everything worked fine _before_ these characters started showing up on my screen - or in a panic that there's some major problem with all the work I've ever done and now it's going to come back to bite me. ~cue the spooky, foreboding music~ I suppose it could also be considered untested as well, since it's not really an answer that works - but that's just being pedantic. Rude though? Yup, definitely - especially when considered in conjunction with your later comment about "f everyone learned to use their paragraph marks correctly...". The use of "perfectly simple" implies that the user is ignorant, and telling the user that they shouldn't do something - especially without explanation - again is abrupt and dismissive. And your follow up comment is nothing more than a slap that makes you sound arrogant. It was unnecessary and unkind. Unfortunately, given your historical reaction to criticism of your posts, I expect that if you do respond it will simply to be to argue over some minor technical point; the gestalt of the criticism will be lost on you. If you do take this position, that's OK; I'll just file it with "Teaching pigs to sing" and cross-reference under "Troll". -- Gordon Bentley-Mix Word MVP Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup. "grammatim" wrote: If it's in emails, it has nothing to do with Word. If it were in Word, it's perfectly simple to turn off, but you shouldn't. On Jan 31, 9:40 pm, Lorraine wrote: Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this??? it looks like a backwards P |
#17
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Sorry Lorraine. I've turned your question into a rant on forum etiquette when
all you wanted was an answer to a legitimate question. Please accept my humble apologies. -- Cheers! Gordon Bentley-Mix Word MVP Uninvited email contact will be marked as SPAM and ignored. Please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup. "Lorraine" wrote: Hi, I have somehow managed to add a paragraph spacer??? to my e-mails and now can't get rid, does anyone know how to remove this??? it looks like a backwards P |
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