[[email protected]]

Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

[DeanH]

The Keep with Next feature only works when applied to the left-most cell,
whether that row have one or multiple cells.
Have you checked the Row feature of "Allow row to break across pages", under
Table Properties, Row tab. This features works differently from Keep with
Next, if the row has both applied, the row itself will break across pages.
Hope this helps
DeanH

" wrote:

Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

[DeanH]

Sorry, just fully read your posting and you say that "row breaking" does not
affect the problem.
Apologies, let me investigate further.
DeanH

" wrote:

Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

[DeanH]

I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH


" wrote:

Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

[[email protected]]

On Mar 26, 10:00*am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. *The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). *Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. *Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned

[DeanH]

As text before increases before the table, the table moves down the page,
sometimes the whole table jumps to the next page - is that the situation?
That is exactly that KeepWithNext and Not allowing row to cross pages does.
If as you say the table should still be small enough to stay on the page,
then check the attributes of the last row, the left most cell and turn-off
keep with next, as it is being dragged over by the paragraph mark that
follows the table.
One other place that could affect the table is "allow spacing between cells"
on Table Properties, Table tab, Options. uncheck this. As this can enlarge
the table without any obvious signs, sometime. Beware though, this can affect
the format/look of your table.
Also, what happens if you turn off all KWN, etc applied to the whole table?
Does it retrun to the page you want it on? If so, don't turn these attributes
on again.
All the best
DeanH





" wrote:

On Mar 26, 10:00 am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned

[[email protected]]

Unfortunately, no, the whole table does not jump to the next page. I
wish it did, as this the behavior I am looking for. Rather, as the
text pushes the table down the page, the table will split with the
bottom 2 or 3 rows moving to the top of the next page, leaving the
first 2 or 3 rows at the bottom of the previous page.

Enabling or disabling "Keep with next" on the last row has no effect.
Similarly, disabling KWN on the entire table doesn't change the
behavior at all either. It is as if Word is ignoring KWN on my
tables.

There is no spacing allowed between cells.

Again, thanks for looking at this.

Ned


On Mar 26, 10:46*am, DeanH wrote:
As text before increases before the table, the table moves down the page,
sometimes the whole table jumps to the next page - is that the situation?
That is exactly that KeepWithNext and Not allowing row to cross pages does.
If as you say the table should still be small enough to stay on the page,
then check the attributes of the last row, the left most cell and turn-off
keep with next, as it is being dragged over by the paragraph mark that
follows the table.
One other place that could affect the table is "allow spacing between cells"
on Table Properties, Table tab, Options. uncheck this. As this can enlarge
the table without any obvious signs, sometime. Beware though, this can affect
the format/look of your table.
Also, what happens if you turn off all KWN, etc applied to the whole table?
Does it retrun to the page you want it on? If so, don't turn these attributes
on again.
All the best
DeanH

" wrote:
On Mar 26, 10:00 am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. *The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). *Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. *Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. *Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. *The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

If you have KWN enabled for every row except the last AND "Allow rows to
break" disabled AND there is not room for the entire table, then it should
move to the next page. If that is not the case, I'd be happy to look at the
document. I believe you say you have some cells merged vertically, and this
can make a difference in some cases but should not matter if the conditions
are as described in my first sentence.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, no, the whole table does not jump to the next page. I
wish it did, as this the behavior I am looking for. Rather, as the
text pushes the table down the page, the table will split with the
bottom 2 or 3 rows moving to the top of the next page, leaving the
first 2 or 3 rows at the bottom of the previous page.

Enabling or disabling "Keep with next" on the last row has no effect.
Similarly, disabling KWN on the entire table doesn't change the
behavior at all either. It is as if Word is ignoring KWN on my
tables.

There is no spacing allowed between cells.

Again, thanks for looking at this.

Ned


On Mar 26, 10:46 am, DeanH wrote:
As text before increases before the table, the table moves down the page,
sometimes the whole table jumps to the next page - is that the situation?
That is exactly that KeepWithNext and Not allowing row to cross pages
does.
If as you say the table should still be small enough to stay on the page,
then check the attributes of the last row, the left most cell and turn-off
keep with next, as it is being dragged over by the paragraph mark that
follows the table.
One other place that could affect the table is "allow spacing between
cells"
on Table Properties, Table tab, Options. uncheck this. As this can enlarge
the table without any obvious signs, sometime. Beware though, this can
affect
the format/look of your table.
Also, what happens if you turn off all KWN, etc applied to the whole
table?
Does it retrun to the page you want it on? If so, don't turn these
attributes
on again.
All the best
DeanH

" wrote:
On Mar 26, 10:00 am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but
that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table
is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if
the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have
applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not
provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page
in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)"
and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to
break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to
double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages"
also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this
doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not
ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st,
3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned

[DeanH]

Know, I think, I understand. You have a merged cell across several rows, with
muliple rows beside it.
Unfortunately, as mentioned before, the KWN only works in the left-most cell
and with a merged cell/un-merged cells in one row, this function does not
work well.
Usually some of the un-merged rows will cross over, leaving a not very nice
looking bottom and top of the page.
Usually the only way to stop this is to apply page break paragraph format to
the left cell, or un-merged the cells, apply KWN, and turn off borders (or
apply white borders) to get the appearance of a merged cell.
Sorry to not be of much help.
All the best
DeanH


" wrote:

Unfortunately, no, the whole table does not jump to the next page. I
wish it did, as this the behavior I am looking for. Rather, as the
text pushes the table down the page, the table will split with the
bottom 2 or 3 rows moving to the top of the next page, leaving the
first 2 or 3 rows at the bottom of the previous page.

Enabling or disabling "Keep with next" on the last row has no effect.
Similarly, disabling KWN on the entire table doesn't change the
behavior at all either. It is as if Word is ignoring KWN on my
tables.

There is no spacing allowed between cells.

Again, thanks for looking at this.

Ned


On Mar 26, 10:46 am, DeanH wrote:
As text before increases before the table, the table moves down the page,
sometimes the whole table jumps to the next page - is that the situation?
That is exactly that KeepWithNext and Not allowing row to cross pages does.
If as you say the table should still be small enough to stay on the page,
then check the attributes of the last row, the left most cell and turn-off
keep with next, as it is being dragged over by the paragraph mark that
follows the table.
One other place that could affect the table is "allow spacing between cells"
on Table Properties, Table tab, Options. uncheck this. As this can enlarge
the table without any obvious signs, sometime. Beware though, this can affect
the format/look of your table.
Also, what happens if you turn off all KWN, etc applied to the whole table?
Does it retrun to the page you want it on? If so, don't turn these attributes
on again.
All the best
DeanH

" wrote:
On Mar 26, 10:00 am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned

[[email protected]]

I think I have the answer.

First, thank you Dean for looking into this, I really appreciate it.

In thinking about how KWN works, and what you said about the table
being too big to fit on one page, it finally dawned on me what might
be going on. In my documents I use spacing after each paragraph to
avoid putting in an extra paragraph mark (empty line). To keep the
text flowing properly at the bottom of the page, I have to have the
KWN enabled on all of the body text. The last paragraph before the
table of course then grabs the top of table and keeps it on the
previous page, just as if the table was too big to fit on one page.
Un-checking KWN on the paragraph before the table solves the problem.
(Well, mostly. I still need to manually do this until I get around to
writing a macro to do this on the entire document before publishing.)

Thanks again for your help,

Ned

On Mar 26, 11:04*am, wrote:
Unfortunately, no, the whole table does not jump to the next page. I
wish it did, as this the behavior I am looking for. *Rather, as the
text pushes the table down the page, the table will split with the
bottom 2 or 3 rows moving to the top of the next page, leaving the
first 2 or 3 rows at the bottom of the previous page.

Enabling or disabling "Keep with next" on the last row has no effect.
Similarly, disabling KWN on the entire table doesn't change the
behavior at all either. *It is as if Word is ignoring KWN on my
tables.

There is no spacing allowed between cells.

Again, thanks for looking at this.

Ned

On Mar 26, 10:46*am, DeanH wrote:

As text before increases before the table, the table moves down the page,
sometimes the whole table jumps to the next page - is that the situation?
That is exactly that KeepWithNext and Not allowing row to cross pages does.
If as you say the table should still be small enough to stay on the page,
then check the attributes of the last row, the left most cell and turn-off
keep with next, as it is being dragged over by the paragraph mark that
follows the table.
One other place that could affect the table is "allow spacing between cells"
on Table Properties, Table tab, Options. uncheck this. As this can enlarge
the table without any obvious signs, sometime. Beware though, this can affect
the format/look of your table.
Also, what happens if you turn off all KWN, etc applied to the whole table?
Does it retrun to the page you want it on? If so, don't turn these attributes
on again.
All the best
DeanH

" wrote:
On Mar 26, 10:00 am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. *The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). *Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. *Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. *Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. *The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned

[DeanH]

Well done for getting this solved.
I also have Space After on my Body Text (and not using extra paragraph for
spacing purposes is "so" not the way) but I do not have KWN as a default
setting for this style, only applying it as and when required.
I do have KWN as default on other styles, such as Table Title, Caption,
Heading 2, 2 etc. but not on BodyText.

All the best.
DeanH

" wrote:

I think I have the answer.

First, thank you Dean for looking into this, I really appreciate it.

In thinking about how KWN works, and what you said about the table
being too big to fit on one page, it finally dawned on me what might
be going on. In my documents I use spacing after each paragraph to
avoid putting in an extra paragraph mark (empty line). To keep the
text flowing properly at the bottom of the page, I have to have the
KWN enabled on all of the body text. The last paragraph before the
table of course then grabs the top of table and keeps it on the
previous page, just as if the table was too big to fit on one page.
Un-checking KWN on the paragraph before the table solves the problem.
(Well, mostly. I still need to manually do this until I get around to
writing a macro to do this on the entire document before publishing.)

Thanks again for your help,

Ned

On Mar 26, 11:04 am, wrote:
Unfortunately, no, the whole table does not jump to the next page. I
wish it did, as this the behavior I am looking for. Rather, as the
text pushes the table down the page, the table will split with the
bottom 2 or 3 rows moving to the top of the next page, leaving the
first 2 or 3 rows at the bottom of the previous page.

Enabling or disabling "Keep with next" on the last row has no effect.
Similarly, disabling KWN on the entire table doesn't change the
behavior at all either. It is as if Word is ignoring KWN on my
tables.

There is no spacing allowed between cells.

Again, thanks for looking at this.

Ned

On Mar 26, 10:46 am, DeanH wrote:

As text before increases before the table, the table moves down the page,
sometimes the whole table jumps to the next page - is that the situation?
That is exactly that KeepWithNext and Not allowing row to cross pages does.
If as you say the table should still be small enough to stay on the page,
then check the attributes of the last row, the left most cell and turn-off
keep with next, as it is being dragged over by the paragraph mark that
follows the table.
One other place that could affect the table is "allow spacing between cells"
on Table Properties, Table tab, Options. uncheck this. As this can enlarge
the table without any obvious signs, sometime. Beware though, this can affect
the format/look of your table.
Also, what happens if you turn off all KWN, etc applied to the whole table?
Does it retrun to the page you want it on? If so, don't turn these attributes
on again.
All the best
DeanH

" wrote:
On Mar 26, 10:00 am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned

[macropod[_2_]]

Hi Ned,

A simple fix would be to put the problem tables into textboxes, since a textbox cannot span more than one page.

--
Cheers
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]


wrote in message ...
I think I have the answer.

First, thank you Dean for looking into this, I really appreciate it.

In thinking about how KWN works, and what you said about the table
being too big to fit on one page, it finally dawned on me what might
be going on. In my documents I use spacing after each paragraph to
avoid putting in an extra paragraph mark (empty line). To keep the
text flowing properly at the bottom of the page, I have to have the
KWN enabled on all of the body text. The last paragraph before the
table of course then grabs the top of table and keeps it on the
previous page, just as if the table was too big to fit on one page.
Un-checking KWN on the paragraph before the table solves the problem.
(Well, mostly. I still need to manually do this until I get around to
writing a macro to do this on the entire document before publishing.)

Thanks again for your help,

Ned

On Mar 26, 11:04 am, wrote:
Unfortunately, no, the whole table does not jump to the next page. I
wish it did, as this the behavior I am looking for. Rather, as the
text pushes the table down the page, the table will split with the
bottom 2 or 3 rows moving to the top of the next page, leaving the
first 2 or 3 rows at the bottom of the previous page.

Enabling or disabling "Keep with next" on the last row has no effect.
Similarly, disabling KWN on the entire table doesn't change the
behavior at all either. It is as if Word is ignoring KWN on my
tables.

There is no spacing allowed between cells.

Again, thanks for looking at this.

Ned

On Mar 26, 10:46 am, DeanH wrote:

As text before increases before the table, the table moves down the page,
sometimes the whole table jumps to the next page - is that the situation?
That is exactly that KeepWithNext and Not allowing row to cross pages does.
If as you say the table should still be small enough to stay on the page,
then check the attributes of the last row, the left most cell and turn-off
keep with next, as it is being dragged over by the paragraph mark that
follows the table.
One other place that could affect the table is "allow spacing between cells"
on Table Properties, Table tab, Options. uncheck this. As this can enlarge
the table without any obvious signs, sometime. Beware though, this can affect
the format/look of your table.
Also, what happens if you turn off all KWN, etc applied to the whole table?
Does it retrun to the page you want it on? If so, don't turn these attributes
on again.
All the best
DeanH

" wrote:
On Mar 26, 10:00 am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned

[ahdoj]

Is the row height set to exactly?

ahdoj

"macropod" wrote:

Hi Ned,

A simple fix would be to put the problem tables into textboxes, since a textbox cannot span more than one page.

--
Cheers
macropod
[MVP - Microsoft Word]


wrote in message ...
I think I have the answer.

First, thank you Dean for looking into this, I really appreciate it.

In thinking about how KWN works, and what you said about the table
being too big to fit on one page, it finally dawned on me what might
be going on. In my documents I use spacing after each paragraph to
avoid putting in an extra paragraph mark (empty line). To keep the
text flowing properly at the bottom of the page, I have to have the
KWN enabled on all of the body text. The last paragraph before the
table of course then grabs the top of table and keeps it on the
previous page, just as if the table was too big to fit on one page.
Un-checking KWN on the paragraph before the table solves the problem.
(Well, mostly. I still need to manually do this until I get around to
writing a macro to do this on the entire document before publishing.)

Thanks again for your help,

Ned

On Mar 26, 11:04 am, wrote:
Unfortunately, no, the whole table does not jump to the next page. I
wish it did, as this the behavior I am looking for. Rather, as the
text pushes the table down the page, the table will split with the
bottom 2 or 3 rows moving to the top of the next page, leaving the
first 2 or 3 rows at the bottom of the previous page.

Enabling or disabling "Keep with next" on the last row has no effect.
Similarly, disabling KWN on the entire table doesn't change the
behavior at all either. It is as if Word is ignoring KWN on my
tables.

There is no spacing allowed between cells.

Again, thanks for looking at this.

Ned

On Mar 26, 10:46 am, DeanH wrote:

As text before increases before the table, the table moves down the page,
sometimes the whole table jumps to the next page - is that the situation?
That is exactly that KeepWithNext and Not allowing row to cross pages does.
If as you say the table should still be small enough to stay on the page,
then check the attributes of the last row, the left most cell and turn-off
keep with next, as it is being dragged over by the paragraph mark that
follows the table.
One other place that could affect the table is "allow spacing between cells"
on Table Properties, Table tab, Options. uncheck this. As this can enlarge
the table without any obvious signs, sometime. Beware though, this can affect
the format/look of your table.
Also, what happens if you turn off all KWN, etc applied to the whole table?
Does it retrun to the page you want it on? If so, don't turn these attributes
on again.
All the best
DeanH

" wrote:
On Mar 26, 10:00 am, DeanH wrote:
I believe that KWN and Allow Row to Break are working properly, but that this
problem could be due to several other attributes. Literally the table is too
long to fit in the space available on the one page, even with KWN if the
table is too long it will cross over to the next page.
1. Do you have a specific height applied to any row?
2. What is the "Space before", "Space after", Line Spacing you have applied
to the table styles?

Try fiddling with these to get your table to fit.
Come back if these do not help.
DeanH

" wrote:
Hello,
hoping someone can help explain Word's behavior to me, if not provide
a solution.

I am having issues with tables breaking across the bottom of a page in
Word 2007.
I have looked at the thread initiated by Bryan Metz in December 2008
under the subject "Table splitting across page break (Word 2007)" and
followed the directions in the document on word.mvps.org (http://
word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/ControlPgBrksInTables.htm).

However, this hasn't solved the problem. The table continues to break
across the bottom of the page even with "Keep with next" applied to
all rows, or all but the last row. (Formatting was applied to the
table as a whole, as well as to each row individually just to double-
check.). Enabling or disabling "allow row to break across pages" also
had no affect.

I have noticed that if I select each individual row and check the
paragraph formatting that "Keep with next" is checked, but that if I
select the row indicator to the right of the table (note: this doesn't
select the whole row, just the indicator is selected) and check the
paragraph formatting, then "Keep with next" is NOT checked. Enabling
this, clicking OK, and then re-checking the paragraph formatting
reveals that the "Keep with next" formatting is not retained after I
click OK.

While I know how to select the first row and apply the "Page break
before" paragraph formatting option to fix the issue, it is not ideal
as I can have up to 70 tables in a document, with more than half of
them potentially needing this fixed.

The only potential reason I can see for this behavior is that the
number of columns is not consistent throughout the table (the 1st, 3rd
and 5th rows are all 1 column, while the 2nd row is 6 columns -- not
all of equal width -- and the 4th row is 2 columns -- again, not of
equal width) and that this is confusing to Word.

Does anyone know for sure, or is there something else I am missing?

Thank you,

Ned Zimmerman

Thanks for looking into this,

The tables easily fit on one page. Typically they are 1/3 to 1/2 of a
page in length, though occasionally they can get close to a full
page. The issue I am having occurs when text before the table pushes
it near the bottom of a page.

As to heights:
1st row is at least 1.05 in.
2nd to 4th row are at least .18 in.
5th row is at least .25 in.

the 3rd row varies in height depending upon the size of a nested table
that gets pasted into it. (Yes, the nested table has "keep with next"
applied to it as well, and "allow row to break across pages"
disabled). (Note: if I used say 13 rows in place of the 3rd row,
rather than a nested table, it gave the same result).

There is no spacing applied before or after rows as Text Wrapping is
set to None.
Top and bottom internal margins vary from .01 to .04 inches, depending
on the row.

I don't know if it matters, but the table is set to 6.5 inches in
width, while the text above and below the table is 6.0 inches in width
(1.25 in. margins).

Ned