[Marge]

Using Office/Word 2003

I'm not sure how to handle a situation - my client wants a TOC for a large
document, BUT - he also wants individual sections for different chapters with
their own page numbers in them. I know how to change the page numbers for the
different sections, but then he wants the TOC to reflect actual, physical
page numbers in the entire document. For example, Chapter 2 has its own
section that says Chapter 2, Page 1/Chapter 2 Page 2, etc., in the Header,
while Chapter 3 says Chapter 3, Page 1 in its header, etc. But, Chapter 2
actually begins on "real" page 10 of the document. He wants that Page 10 to
show in the TOC at the beginning of the document. Is there any way to do that
without having to "manually" type in page numbers in the Chapter Sections
headers (losing the automatice feature) and use a "regular" automatic page
number in a footer? Can I have the footer page number not show if I need to
do that? Other than covering it up with a white box (G)? I hope that makes
sense!!

[Robert M. Franz (RMF)]

Hi Marge

Marge wrote:
Using Office/Word 2003

I'm not sure how to handle a situation - my client wants a TOC for a large
document, BUT - he also wants individual sections for different chapters with
their own page numbers in them. I know how to change the page numbers for the
different sections, but then he wants the TOC to reflect actual, physical
page numbers in the entire document. For example, Chapter 2 has its own
section that says Chapter 2, Page 1/Chapter 2 Page 2, etc., in the Header,

Exactly how is this header built? You can instruct Word to include the
chapter number in the header -- a mere PAGE field will then display
(i.e.) 1-1, 1-2, ... 2-1, ... etc.

Of course, you can also start page numbers at 1 in each section, and add
"chapter 1, Page " as normal Text (or cross-reference/STYLEREF to the
chapter), followed by a PAGE field.

This is important, because, no matter what you do: a TOC will reflect
exactly what PAGE shows on the given page.


while Chapter 3 says Chapter 3, Page 1 in its header, etc. But, Chapter 2
actually begins on "real" page 10 of the document. He wants that Page 10 to
show in the TOC at the beginning of the document. Is there any way to do that
without having to "manually" type in page numbers in the Chapter Sections
headers (losing the automatice feature) and use a "regular" automatic page
number in a footer? Can I have the footer page number not show if I need to
do that? Other than covering it up with a white box (G)? I hope that makes
sense!!

Hmm, you can show (or not) PAGE in the footer, numbered in one sequence
through the document. And calculate whatever you wish in the header.

The underlying problem with that is: Does it benefit your readers?

I would, and *strongly*, challenge your client's reasons for this setup:
"Folio by chapter" is handy for the creation, and it was used
extensively in times where paper and printing was expensive. Especially
in all sorts of technical manuals, the idea was to only reprint
individual pages when some minor changes occurred.

All fine and well, in theory. There are two big problems with that, though:

1. Word does not work page-oriented. It tries to reflow text over pages
whenever you change printer drivers (not as big an issue anymore these
days, but it can happen), when you change content, and generally
whenever you don't look! :-) So, when you make a change on page 37,
changes are big that all subsequent pages (maybe even the page before
that) change.

2. The concept of reprinted pages builds entirely on people replacing
the outdated pages in their technical manual binders. History has proven
that, well, they don't (they simply put the revision on top of it,
wanting to do it whenever time permits, and end up with a manual buried
in revision pages). Esso managed to blow up a gas plant, and a lot of
the blame went to exactly this strategy.

Whats worse in your case is: they want folio by chapter, but still show
one sequence only in the TOC. That's entirely useless to the reader at
worst, or very confusing at best (in case you show both page numbers on
every page).

2cents
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

[Marge]

Robert,

Thank you for the reply! I agree, it was kind of a mess the way he wanted
it. I think I've convinced him that we can show the Chapter Numbers/title and
that will be okay. I think the Exxon example was one I will have to remember!

Thank you again for your help!

Marge

"Robert M. Franz (RMF)" wrote:

Hi Marge

Marge wrote:
Using Office/Word 2003

I'm not sure how to handle a situation - my client wants a TOC for a large
document, BUT - he also wants individual sections for different chapters with
their own page numbers in them. I know how to change the page numbers for the
different sections, but then he wants the TOC to reflect actual, physical
page numbers in the entire document. For example, Chapter 2 has its own
section that says Chapter 2, Page 1/Chapter 2 Page 2, etc., in the Header,

Exactly how is this header built? You can instruct Word to include the
chapter number in the header -- a mere PAGE field will then display
(i.e.) 1-1, 1-2, ... 2-1, ... etc.

Of course, you can also start page numbers at 1 in each section, and add
"chapter 1, Page " as normal Text (or cross-reference/STYLEREF to the
chapter), followed by a PAGE field.

This is important, because, no matter what you do: a TOC will reflect
exactly what PAGE shows on the given page.


while Chapter 3 says Chapter 3, Page 1 in its header, etc. But, Chapter 2
actually begins on "real" page 10 of the document. He wants that Page 10 to
show in the TOC at the beginning of the document. Is there any way to do that
without having to "manually" type in page numbers in the Chapter Sections
headers (losing the automatice feature) and use a "regular" automatic page
number in a footer? Can I have the footer page number not show if I need to
do that? Other than covering it up with a white box (G)? I hope that makes
sense!!

Hmm, you can show (or not) PAGE in the footer, numbered in one sequence
through the document. And calculate whatever you wish in the header.

The underlying problem with that is: Does it benefit your readers?

I would, and *strongly*, challenge your client's reasons for this setup:
"Folio by chapter" is handy for the creation, and it was used
extensively in times where paper and printing was expensive. Especially
in all sorts of technical manuals, the idea was to only reprint
individual pages when some minor changes occurred.

All fine and well, in theory. There are two big problems with that, though:

1. Word does not work page-oriented. It tries to reflow text over pages
whenever you change printer drivers (not as big an issue anymore these
days, but it can happen), when you change content, and generally
whenever you don't look! :-) So, when you make a change on page 37,
changes are big that all subsequent pages (maybe even the page before
that) change.

2. The concept of reprinted pages builds entirely on people replacing
the outdated pages in their technical manual binders. History has proven
that, well, they don't (they simply put the revision on top of it,
wanting to do it whenever time permits, and end up with a manual buried
in revision pages). Esso managed to blow up a gas plant, and a lot of
the blame went to exactly this strategy.

Whats worse in your case is: they want folio by chapter, but still show
one sequence only in the TOC. That's entirely useless to the reader at
worst, or very confusing at best (in case you show both page numbers on
every page).

2cents
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

[Robert M. Franz (RMF)]

Hi Marge

Marge wrote:
Thank you for the reply! I agree, it was kind of a mess the way he wanted
it. I think I've convinced him that we can show the Chapter Numbers/title and
that will be okay. I think the Exxon example was one I will have to remember!

Well, if you stick with folio-by-chapter, you might not have read up the
full story:

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...faa469d5d6a929

But glad it's easier now for you, in any case.

Greetings
Robert
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word